Draler Ilvi name

Type: 

Reminder

Severity: 

Minor

Game version: 

Morrowind

Concerns: 

Tamriel_Data

Found in Version: 

Status: 

Description: 

As discussed a while back on the forums and more recently on IRC, 'lord Indoril Draler Ilvi' is going to generally be referred to as 'the Indoril Ilvi', the name 'Indoril' effectively acting as a title in and of itself, and 'Ilvi' being the name of whoever rules Roa Dyr. While Indoril Draler may have been the birth name of Ilvi, it would only appear rarely if at all.

To that end, there are two references to 'Draler Ilvi' in Tamriel_Data which should be edited at some point. One in the book 'Formalities of Mirth', written by Ilvi, and the other in the White Book. The latter will probably end up getting adjusted either way as work on House Indoril moves forward.

Comments

I'm hesitant about the form

Why's picture

I'm hesitant about the form of address 'the Indoril Ilvi' (see also Discord, I suppose). While I get your reasoning, and it is an interesting form, vanilla has enough precedent of listing 'Indoril Nerevar' (plenty of places) and 'Indoril Brindisi Dorom' (admittedly, only in 2920) without 'the' to make this choice not sit right with me.

I'm all for referring to our good friend Draler Ilvi as Indoril Ilvi, but shouldn't we then also reconsider the honorifics of Salume Nethril, Meris Denaven and Ienen Salvu, not to mention Sandil and Tomaril who have managed to sneak into the White Book while being mere Illuminated Elders? Or am I mistaken and is the 'Indoril' honorific reserved for warrior-types? That's all work-in-progress, I guess.

There was more discussion on

Gnomey's picture

There was more discussion on Discord, and I would like to hear more opinions on the 'the'. The gist of it is that 'the Indoril Ilvi' is a combination of a name, a title and an ancestor spirit, so a rather different type of name than 'Indoril Nerevar'. Compare with 'the Nerevarine', and to a lesser degree 'the Sharmat'. 'Indoril Ilvi' could refer to any individual called that, so it could apply to the current Indoril Ilvi, or to the original Indoril Ilvi, or perhaps an unrelated Indoril Ilvi. Westerners would tend to use that more vague form of address. 'The Indoril Ilvi' specifically indicates the ruler of the castle-estate/chapel, or in a sense the perceived Ilvi 'oversoul'.

already said this on Discord,

Rats's picture

already said this on Discord, but I dislike the 'the' because it a) looks strange in a bad way, b) it severs the cool connection to House Dagoth, the other conservative House, with Dagoth Ur etc.

Hm, I mean, I sometimes see

Kevaar's picture

Hm, I mean, I sometimes see this usage IRL too when talking about longstanding nobility families. "the" so-and-so is often the current "ruling" so-and-so in a long line of so-and-so's, which certainly fits the theme here.

I would say that "Indoril Ilvi" should be the topic name, and it can be up to writers to whether their characters say "the Indoril Ilvi" or just "Indoril Ilvi" whenever he's mentioned. I would expect the former among the commoners (who would use it in the same way it's used IRL, to denote the current lord in a long bloodline), and the Temple and Indoril priests (who know its spiritual significance), while everyone else uses the term "Indoril Ilvi" and perhaps get confused when it's mentioned this is a title rather than a name, and so on...

If I had to choose just one, though, probably Indoril Ilvi, because "the Indoril Ilvi" begins to get cumbersome in day-to-day dialogue. "The Indoril Ilvi has been up to something lately..." "Go talk to the Indoril Ilvi..." "Did you know? The Indoril Ilvi made a new proclamation the other day..."

Yeah, that was pretty much

Gnomey's picture

Yeah, that was pretty much exactly my thought process and how I figured it would be used, but at the moment it looks like the majority (of those who bothered to reply) don't want 'the' used at all.