Is there a listing where cross-influences of loaded mods are stated?

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oldChimer's picture
oldChimer
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I am asking this because there have been some very elusive „bugs” in my MW worldscape, which I could only resolve by testing out which mod overlayed or touched regions and/or CS declarations of another one.  In one case, an older Window Lights for TR mod made buildings and windows disappear, and it took me quite a day to find it out.  I believe it would be very useful if there would be a standard question à la „did you check load order, and which/how many mods have you loaded” –– in my case, the answer would be „yes, about 192, 10 of them with bsas, not including about 40 esp/esm-less replacers, but I already know that they are ok”.  Or, alternatively, a list where TR users could enter which mods are causing „offense” to their TR installation.  I didn’t find something like this at UESP or other sites. or I would’ve added a link here for convenience.
 

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abot
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mods moving/replacing lots of TR references will have problems when TR masters change, your best option if you don’t want to wait for dependant mod author update is learning how to update the mod yourself using mash updaters (the only tool IMO that can update changed references correctly so far)

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oldChimer
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Yep, I am aware of that… eg. I had updated said lighting mod via Wrye Bash (master list editing) and a quick check-up in the CS.  I was astonished that that author didn’t simply use replacers, but actually replaced references in the CS and manually edited the landscape to place them –– what a stupid method.  That is why it took me so long to find it.
My question was more generalized –– assume „me average user” (well, not me, actually) has TR loaded, gets massive errors or bugs, and has a host of mods loaded and doesn’t have a clue what happened, or enough experience to load without any other mod than TR to see what happens then.  In this case, having such a list to do a quick look-up would be quite nice.  And my question was: does TR have such a thingy?  I believe, once (when the original web site was still up) there were efforts to create and maintain one, but I couldn’t find a thing.
(edit: corrected and clarified a bit––sorry)

The more I venture into the realms of wisdom, the more I realize that all wisdom is nothing but illusionary and theoretical.
So, in order to go completely illiterate and bogus, I need to know more about everything.

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abot
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short answer:
no updated lists that I know, but this is the right time to do one:  with recent changes I think compatible mods are very few.

long answer:
I htink that list (if any ) may be very obsolete and to be honest I still think in practice TR is not giving a damn about compatibility with other mods since  a lot of time. This is partly due to technical problems (e.g. the mentioned reference renumbering when a master is changed) that are hard to prevent  on TR part (maybe it could be done using Mash refs renumbering similar to what the LGNPC mod did but I am not sure it works well with masters) and better handled by mash-savvy mod users/authors, and partly due to project goals/priorities that may have changed in time/with the changing on TR modders generations.

I remember having to make Castle Arynx work again and again with TR refining landscape/exteriorating...

I have a lot of mods based on TR masters,
QuickCharTR.esp
PB_SignpostsRetexturedTR.esp
MCA - TR Addon.esp
JoinAllHousesTR.esp
HousepodPackSO.esp
Graphic HerbalismBCTRSO.esp
Arynx1.2.esp
abotWindowsGlowTR.esp
abotWaterLifeTRaddon.esp
abotTRWaterSound.esp
abotSiltStridersTR.esp
abotRiverStridersTR.esp
abotGuardsTR.esp
abotBoatsTR.esp
and in time I learned how to update them with less hassle using Mash, but for instance with latest identifiers change there is no Mash that can help you updating references if also identifiers are changed, so I fear you are on your own ( hard editing in CS) if you want to upgrade WindowGlow-like mods to work with  latest TR 16.09.

The identifiers-change is the more recent and hopefully happen-once-in-a-lifetime example, but I remember e.g. edited NPCs ids (when just npcs names could  have been changed) and screwing  dependant mods dialogue filters.

About TR new vision and my TR related mods (which  I suppose  should be part of that hypothetical list), I’ve not changed much my point of view, especially now that updating is more difficult, so I think I will wait for next TR urgent fixes and see.

 

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oldChimer
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That is a thorough extraction of my own thoughts you’re giving there laugh If TR keeps adopting new internal standards and constant changes, the only thing we (as users and/or tie-in modders like your TR stuff) can do is either stick with old and compatible TR releases or wait for godot… but I digress and get a bit snotty again.
For me it is no actual problem to fix mods at least so that they work with my own set-up, but the average user really is a bit (insert verb form of unfriendly word starting with „f” here, passive present tense).  Oh, okay, but I’ll start collecting a bit of info and maybe can gather enough to roughly offer something in the terms of that list I mentioned, you know –– stuff a newbie can use to find out what and why happened and how to fix it.

The more I venture into the realms of wisdom, the more I realize that all wisdom is nothing but illusionary and theoretical.
So, in order to go completely illiterate and bogus, I need to know more about everything.

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10Kaziem
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By the way for issues related to our recent data update (which, by the way: that shouldn’t be happening again any time soon!), there is a patcher that is packaged in with the data files.

There is a patcher which will fix old references to CS IDs that got changed. It’s in the zip file you download when you download Tamriel_Data. This won’t help your masterfile dependency issue but will fix any data issues. Hopefully.

Edit: also there is a program specifically designed to detect conflicts between mods: http://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/3874/?

Does: concepts, textures, youtube vids, admin stuff e.g. PR, handbook, assets, small website things. Activity level: wildly unpredictable. Still active. Find me on Discord.

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abot
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I have… a certain degree of experience with these things.

The java patcher works well with mods  dependant on TR_Data/Tamriel_Data only. It may work more or less with mods dependant on TR_Mainland  as long as they mostly add new references (e.g. MCA_TR adds new NPCs/leveled lists and mostly replaces some stools). 

I think mods dependant on TR_Mainland and deleting/replacing/moving a lot of references contained in old TR_Mainland.esm that are now  in TR_Mainland1609 with new reference numbers (reference renumbering happens each time you move/add/delete a single reference and save a mod in CS) AND new reference ids can’t be auto-fixed by a current tool, because it should be able to remap renumbered references like Mash updaters (but Mash can’t remap these as reference identifiers have changed between version).

Mods like abotWindowsGlowTR are (a pita) to fix in CS by hand (but at least there is a procedural/standard/repeatable way to search/duplicate/replace certain statics with certain activators in CS). Problem is with these 10/20 rocks I carefully moved along my strider routes (e.g. Akamora route). If rocks have been renamed the only way to fix things is opening 2 CS, compare the old version with the new one and try to replicate changes.

I’m not certain about mods like Castle Arynx, but I suspect problems also there, lots of TR_Mainland rocks moved.

 

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oldChimer
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Kaziem, abot: thanks for the info, that’ll be helpful.  I’ll take a look at that util on Nexus.

The more I venture into the realms of wisdom, the more I realize that all wisdom is nothing but illusionary and theoretical.
So, in order to go completely illiterate and bogus, I need to know more about everything.