2018-11-04 Meeting Summary

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Atrayonis's picture
Lead DeveloperDeveloperInterior DeveloperQuest Developer
2015-09-28 20:13
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14 hours 2 min ago

Thirr Conflict

Mechanical conflict handling

Two globals were proposed:

  • one (TR_Thirr_Conflict_Score) to keep track of which house is currently winning the Thirr conflict. It would range from 0 (starting position) to -60 (Hlaalu victory) or 60 (Indoril victory).
  • one (TR_Thirr_Conflict_Heat) to keep track of the “heat” and thus affect the availability of quests. Arvisrend proposed the following scale:
    • values 0-9: the conflict hasn't properly started yet, i.e., same situation as at game start (in particular, no quests being denied to player, but some warnings and drums-in-the-distance).
    • values 10-19: player has picked sides, and will not get some (conflict- or house-related) quests from the opposite side.
    • values 20-29: conflict has started to affect places; some questgivers will hate the player even for non-conflict-related quests.
    • values 30-39: serious conflict, possibly player PNG'd in some towns (not sure if we ever go there).
    • values 40-49: one side has won.
    • values 50-59: normalcy/peace has returned (this should re-open quests that were blocked off at values 20-29).

Misc quests would raise both globals, house influence would not come into play much and heat should be capped at 10.

At heats of 10+, MT missions will be generated, depending on which house is winning the conflict. The player should generally be unable to accept these writs when they are a house member. (What about the opposite case?)

Raising both globals further would be part of House missions.

The conflict itself

At the beginning of the conflict, even an unaffiliated player can help out one side or the other (or both). This won’t have overly much effect (heat <= 10, score not too high either), but NPCs will show some reactions (mostly just in dialogue).

To start the “big game”, the player will have to join either House Hlaalu or House Indoril.

The final piece of the conflict would be the construction of Nav Andaram, which would cause the Dres to become active on the Indoril side.

For a Hlaalu player, this would be the final nail in the coffin of the Indoril order. Their last mission would be a “siege” from Ilvi’s heir and his entourage.

For an Indoril player, the final stages would involve besieging Nav Andaram, under the control of Raris Oran, heir to Atran Oran. The Dres would acquire the Andaram/Hlaalu Ferry, giving them uncontested access to Almas Thirr and the Dunmer markets.

After the “siege”, the Majordomo at Almas-Thirr should invite both sides for peace negotiations (thus bringing the Heat variable from 50-59 to 60-69).


  • There's an Indoril agent held captive in the Mundrethi Plantation Slave Market (in the basement of Merengor's house); either saving her (for the Indoril) or interrogating her (for the Hlaalu) could be a quest.
  • Llethys Mundrethi, owner of the aforementioned plantation, has a Skooma problem. It could be used against him.
  • Dels Ravyn, foreman of the Oran Plantation, dislikes Atran Oran immensely and has strong links to the Camonna Tong. Could be plotting against him.
  • Ilvi Ancestral Tomb is on the Hlaalu side of the river. It house a relic of the Ilvi family, Staff of the Blessed Velkherd. The Hlaalu are trying to find it.
  • The Argonian Shaman in Hlaalu lands hold an Indoril ancestral spirit hostage, and the player needs to get it back.
  • The Indoril counterparts of the Hlaalu charity quest should muddy the waters for the Hlaalu. For example, try to goad Hlaalu traders into saying some blasphemy, then send the Ordinators on their trail (or extort them with that possibility). Unlike Hlaalu charity, much of this will probably not be accessible to unaffiliated players, but maybe they can be used as pawns for a bit.

Affected locations

  • Locations which are probably not affected: Old Ebonheart, Almas-Thirr, Andothren (with the possible exception of Morag Tong writs), Gol Mok, Dondril.
  • Definitely affected: Vhul (Syvvit Tong).

Changes needed to existing content

  • The Syvvit Tong need to be revisited and adapted once the conflict is implemented; in particular, they should lay low, as otherwise suspicion would fall on them for being Hlaalu agents.

Starting Area Discussion

  • The Kathellomar quest hook should be extended to an IL quest available to all players. The commander is indeed sick, but the sickness can be cured by standard spells and is not infectious or particularly dangerous; Kathellomar is making an elephant out of that fly for career reasons.
  • Vodunius Nuccius should eventually (TR_Factions) offer the player to come along to Teyn with him, thus allowing for a de-facto Mainland start while formally still starting at Seyda Neen.
  • Add more low level quests and get rid of the Dreugh around the Teyn/Fort Ancylis shores. Potentially make it easier to get out of the water, too (add more banks).
  • Contact Arvisrend before crittering Roth-Roryn and the Ascadian Bluffs.

Redoran questline outlook

Restating headcanon/planned progression, as originally collected in the forum:

  • the Nail-Knock Reavers are led into an uprising by Haafingar mercenaries
  • leader of which would be a vampire general from Potema’s days
  • it’s all a plot of High King Thian to weaken the Redoran for nefarious purposes (such as occupying Solstheim)


Province Cyrodiil is planning to add a “Regicide” flag to the death of the Emperor, something that could be supported on TR’s end as well.

Why's picture
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2014-01-02 23:58
Last seen:
4 days 17 hours ago

I was re-reading the Redoran discussion and felt that I should clear up something; Thian employing a vampire general/police from back in Potema's days is all fine with me, and I'm totally on board with Thian having a hand in the uprising in the Uld Vraech - as far as I know, that has pretty much always been the plan.

What I do find difficult to get behind is turning the vampire police into an actual adversary the Redoran player will get to confront / knock over the head. Re-reading the discussion, it's not clear to me whether that was actually being suggested or not, though I did interpret it that way at the time. I'm all for Thian and his vampire minion being involved behind the scenes and/or pulling the strings of whatever more tangible opposition Redoran players would get to face. But it seems like a waste to me if we scoop SHotN's opportunity to use this character because the Potema lore is far more relevant to them than it is to the northern reaches of Redoran territory. I'd much rather present the Nail-Knock Reavers (superficially at least, and to the Dunmer side) as a simple antagonistic force in the vein of Morrowind's historical barbarian-invaders-from-the-west (again, inspired by the accounts of the Battle of Red Mountain that have Nords and Orcs among the Chimer's enemies, but not literally linked to that) while having all the extra nuance you describe for observant players and potentially for players on the other side of the conflict if we make that joinable in some way.

I do maintain that any actual showdown should feature a more conventional opponent for our Redoran player, primarily because the Redoran story needs an obstacle that can be overcome the Redoran way - and it's fine with me if that leaves the cause of the obstacle ultimately still out and about and unresolved, especially considering the timeline after TESIII as per Oblivion.