2019-07-07 Meeting Summary

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Atrayonis's picture
Atrayonis
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Tur Julan

NPCs: Ghosts (creatures and/or NPCs with ghost shader effect) and Guardian Daedra.

The Daedra were put there as guardians and as a way to salt the earth as the land was lost to the Hlaalu. They should be largely Winged Twilights, Hungers, Scamps, maybe Dridea/Perthan and Atronachs.

There should be a more individualistic approach to the Daedra. Not all of them care about guarding the place, some of them may just remain there because they can as the requirements of the original invocation have been fulfilled or voided.

Essentially, this should be a mini-Battlespire situation on Nirn. Hostile Daedra do roam here, but some should only become hostile if the player is not Indoril or if the player deliberately annoys them in dialogue. Some should be entirely non-hostile.

 A suggestion was to have a very polite Hunger, who may just be playing with their prey. Scamps could be the main talkers (see Creeper and Lustidrike for how Scamps talk in Vv).

It is up to the NPCers on how to go about this, but it is not necessary to make the Daedra too personable or detailed.

There should be at least one powerful Daedroth in the Spire that guards the vaults and other important things. Should be hostile, but might have a conversation first.

Another Daedroth (not necessarily a Scamp, a suggestion was a Winged Twilight repair service) could act as a service provider of some kind, adding more to this than a dungeon romp.

Crossing of the Wings should have non-hostile ghosts only. They can still be hostile after conversation, if the NPCer so desires. They should acknowledge (and not attack) Indoril players, though they might remark on the player being an outlander with dismay/wonder/confusion/whatever other reaction works for them.

The ghosts in general should be bewildered and sad window dressing - they are around because of the active Waiting Door, but they cannot fulfill their duties of giving counsel to the living because their descendants have abandoned the place. They should hint at this to player, and be explicit with Indoril members. A player who has gained the Speaker for the Dead title should get better/more specific dialogue as well.

While in the future they might give advice to a House Indoril player, they might give some advice to the Nerevarine-to-be (that particular part of the main quest having been started).

Gewp-Eee

https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/claims/geewp-eee t

If anybody wants to rewrite the (tongueless) dialogue they are free to. Otherwise, the claim will be merged at the earliest convenience.

Morrowind Crafting

The idea was discussed to work with new equivalents to specific static objects to allow greater compatibility with Morrowind Crafting. The objects are as follows:

  • Anvils: These become an activator. Vanilla anvil is furn_anvil00, becomes mc_anvil_perm (for anvils that are owned; unowned anvils that a player might be able to make off with would be mc_anvil_p)
  • Looms: Becomes another activator. Vanilla:  furn_de_loom_01, becomes mc_loom_perm (or _p, as for anvils)
  • Spinning wheels: Becomes another activator. Vanilla: furn_spinningwheel_01, becomes mc_spinningwheel_perm (or _p, as per anvils)
  • Cordage wheels: Becomes an activator. Vanilla: furn_spinwheel00, becomes mc_cordagewheel_perm (or _p as per anvils)
  • Woods (8):
    • furn_log_01: 30% (approximately) becomes mc_log_cypress, 70% becomes mc_log_hickory.
    • furn_log_02: 30% becomes mc_log_mahogany, 70% becomes mc_log_ash.
    • furn_log_03: 30% becomes mc_log_oak, 70% becomes mc_log_pine.
    • furn_log_04: 30% becomes mc_log_parasol, 70% becomes mc_log_scrap
    • Woods are miscellaneous objects.

Currently, the developers of Morrowind Crafting replace the objects on their end, but need to maintain compatibility with each new TR update, which is rather tedious. The proposed change would save them the trouble with (the argument is) relatively little impact on TR’s end.

For statics that become activators, there would be no visible change for players; the new activators would not be given a name on TR’s end, Morrowind Crafting would simply edit the activators on their end giving them names and scripts. TR’s developers and reviewers would need to ensure they use the new objects rather than the vanilla ones. A possible concern that was raised was how this could negatively affect any lua mods that make use of the vanilla objects. (As we would be removing the vanilla versions from our lands).

For the logs, which become misc items, there are more differences: these would need to be given names (and perhaps we would want to negotiate different/more in-universe names to replace some of the wood types currently used by Morrowind Crafting) and would behave differently on TR’s end, becoming interactive objects without collisions. 

An alternative would be to make the logs activators as well. No difference would exist between static logs on Vvardenfell and log activators on the mainland as long as MC was not installed. Morrowind Crafting would merely have to give these log activators a name and a script to add a misc item log to the player’s inventory. The downside would be a lot of scripted activators in some cells (notably the Firewatch lighthouse).

As developers sometimes use the log objects in creative ways, such as using them as structural elements, and because the four log statics should get switched out for eight different log items as listed above, manual judgement and replacement would be required. Logs that shouldn’t be picked up or should keep their collision should stay as the vanilla objects.

As some log types would be more expensive and others less so, and some exotic and others native, ideally the replacement would be done on a case-by-case basis as appropriate, hopefully ensuring a good distribution of all the log types.

There has been no consensus as of yet (lacking especially from feedback from the PT side), and there are still specifics to hammer out. In general, the idea has been met with largely positive feedback.

Kevaar's picture
Kevaar
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One question/caution—how do the Daedra of Tur Julan compare with our leveled regions? Might they be too high? Possibly could be mitigated with making the strongest Daedra only attack after being chatted to, having high level locks, having the dungeon be vast and get progressively harder (the first levels just scamps and the like) and/or plaster some obvious warnings through signs or dialogue (some guy fleeing from the place?) around.

its such a marvelous idea I don’t want to break it, but it would be nice to not throw instant deaths into an area where low level characters are expected to roam without worrying.

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MinerMan60101
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Since this ruin is on a mountain and is rather imposing, new players won't go in unknowingly (they won't even be able to without searching out the path or getting levitation).

Atrayonis's picture
Atrayonis
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Joined:
2015-09-28 20:13
Last seen:
11 hours 35 min ago

It's also a highly visible dungeon location. If the player isn't warned off by wandering Daedra and instead opts to charge them head-on like a meathead, that's their own fault. Adding talkative Daedra and noin-hostile ghosts seems pretty assuring that a player that doesn't need to be coddled will figure out if they are in over their head before things get bad.