Indoril-Thirr quest brainstorming

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1. Sources relevant to questing IT

The following is meant to be a list of links to material relevant to questing and NPCing the next release (Indoril-Thirr/Aanthirin/AT&RD&c). Since I am notoriously bad at keeping up with TR, it's probably a crappy list, with some stuff missing and some stuff horribly outdated, so please treat this as a first approximation and correct/expand as needed. Ideally, the final result can be made a sticky on the #questers-campfire channel.

IT section: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/releasefiles/indoril-thirr-section-2841
Mainland file: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/releasefiles/trmainland-2836

Relevant lore:
- dialogue from the above section file https://www.dropbox.com/s/wo1kgfy29v2zpjz/dumpIT.txt?dl=0 (version jul 2018, no guarantee of keeping up-to-date)
- House Indoril in Handbook https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/content/state-house-indoril
- House Hlaalu in Handbook https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/content/state-house-hlaalu
- Temple in Handbook https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/content/state-tribunal-temple
- Middle Thirr thread https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/forum/middle-thirr
- Hlaalu charity (House Hlaalu quests, but relevant to the big picture) https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/asset/hlaalu-charity-quests
- old TRV thread https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25085
- old HI thread https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24011&start=0
- old "practical" HI thread https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23762
- old Indoril castles thread https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24596
- Sload on the Indoril problem https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24570
- old HH thread https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24220&start=0

quests:
- AT: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/area/almas-thirr
- General quest claim browser: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/claims/quests

2. A bunch of quest ideas

The following are the results of me running across the lands and trying to figure out what wrongs could be righted by the player. No quality guarantees. (AT = Almas Thirr; RD = Roa Dyr.)

- [Claimed] AT: Pilgrimage to Bloodstone Shrine obviously, but we can perhaps make it more interesting than the usual activate-the-shrine game. You have to walk a mile in Veloth's shoes? (some pair of shoes enchanted to be really uncomfortable.)
- AT: The underworks could be a place where the Twin Lamps ambush a party of slavers crossing the river (and try to free the slaves they are transporting), though we need a ruse to lure the slavers there. [However, this is probably better left to the Twin Lamps questline.]
- [Open] AT: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/claims/brother-against-brother
- RD?: There should be a rather obvious conflict between the Indoril worldview (built on the Laws Determined and hundreds of little retcons they built over the time to resolve the glaring irrealism) and that of their slaves (who, at least, have a practical understanding of what's going on around them). Several quests can spring from this conflict.
- [Open] Hlaalu plantation: A slavemaster wants you to convince an unruly slave that no, outlanders are NOT going to help him.
- Hlaalu plantation: Slave strike! Several slaves are threatening to kill themselves. Player is asked to interfere.
- [Open] AT: A trader ship (The Glinting Moth?) has been impounded because a thief, who boarded it as a blind passenger unbeknownst to the crew, has tried to rob AT while the ship was going through the tolls. The player is to mediate. Could double as an EEC quest if we use an EEC ship.
- [Finished] AT: The book merchant (Tilresi) is in trouble with the ordinators since an abolitionist screed was found in her shop. (If that's not outlawed: try heretical texts.) She suspects a rival wannabe of setting her up. Alternatively, she admits to the player that she did have that book, but asks the player to present an excuse.
- [Claimed] AT: An escaped Argonian slave is camping on top of the Office of Intercession (in the Plaza). You're out to Get Them (or help them get away).
- [Finished] Rilsoan: A villager disappeared gathering kollops in Mirou Grotto. Find their remains. (They were killed by the bandit/smuggler in there. For a bonus, the questgiver also knows the smuggler and is conflicted about the whole thing.)
- AT: Rats has an idea for the Thieves Guild, using part of the underworks. Rats, can you post it somewhere?
- Mundrethi plantation: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24767 . Is this still relevant?
- Vathras plantation: see post #5.
- Vhul/RD: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/claims/burden-proof
- RD: A slave of Ilvi Manor is stealing from one of the traders. The trader wants you to stop the thievery while preventing the slave from getting disciplined too harshly (probably executed -- depending on Ilvi's character). The first part can be done by catching the slave in the act (some scripting required); the second probably requires some persuasion.

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I don't know if this properly goes here, since the quest operates out of Andothren mostly. But Almas Thirr is also involved. Anyway, this is a quest idea relying on the cool Argonian language book written by user "(((El Gringo Narigón)))" on discord.

A young Imperial scholar fresh out of the Imperial City lives in a rented apartment in Andothren, and is doing research on Argonians. Rumor has it he is looking for assistants to help his research. Talking to him, the PC would realize that although he knows a lot of existing academia on Argonians, he's way out of his depth and doesn't like to get his hands dirty or really leave the comfort of his study. But he seems earnest, and is willing to pay rather generously.
-First quest stage, the scholar asks you to find a particular Argonian in town (a slave, maybe?) that he's seen around and ask him some questions. The questions asked would be sort of odd, mostly relating to Argonians' mouths and tongues. The PC might be given the option to re-word some of the questions to be less offensive, or not (and risk irritating the Argonian).
-Second stage, the scholar asks for an Argonian skull. Asking around, you learn of a buried Argonian slave in the wilds somewhere on the east side of the Thirr, where you can pick up a skull. (or leave this open-ended)
-Third stage, the scholar asks you to purchase an Argonian slave for him from Almas Thirr. By now, the player should have a good idea of what the Imperial has in mind (live dissection, most likely), and could be given the option to refuse outright, ending the quest (or purchasing the slave, then freeing him/her). But if the PC purchases and delivers the slave and leaves the apartment for a few days, when you return the scholar is thrilled, and offers you a copy of his manuscript (the text referenced above). The Argonian, however, only looks at you silently, having had his tongue cut out.
-Fourth stage (optional), if the PC somehow didn't catch on to what was going on before, you'd be given the opportunity to blackmail the Imperial in exchange for the slave's freedom (or, for really evil PCs, more gold) by threatening to expose the sketchy methods by which the research was done.

The quest would highlight both the casual attitude towards slavery found in this part of Morrowind and the disconnect between the Imperials and the lands/people they rule. Plus, it's a dynamic way to get that cool book in the game.

Charger24 on Discord

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i had ideas for the Thieves' Guild of Andothren. don't know enough about Almas Thirr to say if it should have Thieves' Guild (probably not).

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A few more quest ideas:
--House Indoril has sent a priest (and/or the player?) to preach wacky Indoril proverbs at the Velothi to convince them to do their duty to House Indoril. The player can choose to help House Hlaalu by picking fun at the proverbs and misinterpretting them, or help the Indoril by helping the Velothi interpret them correctly. (Temple quest?)
--A Dunmer asks the player to help him knock off an Indoril tollmer so that he may take the tollmer's place and status. The player can either sneak in and modify some records, or arrange to push the tollmer off a bridge (aka assassinate him). The Dunmer's motive may be that his ancestors were among those who offed themselves and so his family has been struggling in light of that, or that he was just plain of low birth and is trying to climb the social ladder.
--The player helps the city guards handle a fight between Hlaalu and Indoril loyalists in one of the allies or bars of Almas Thirr. The Hlaalu thug (probably has Camonna Tong leanings) started a fist fight when the Indoril kept preaching at him that he was betraying the Tribunal by not recognizing House Indoril's superiority.
--An outlander official has come to talk to one of the Hlaalu ship captains about a missing shipment. The player discovers the shipment has been stolen by Dres and/or Indoril and needs to retrieve it from the Almas Thirr underworks.
--An Indoril noble has found out that he is wanted dead by the Morag Tong. To overturn the old trope, he actually wants to die because he believes he has committed a sin that the assassination will wash him clean of, so that he can meet his ancestors in honor. The player helps him meet his death.
--A shipment of mixed race slaves is waiting in Almas Thirr to go to an Indoril buyer. The buyer has discovered that some of the slaves are actually there to serve as Hlaalu spies, and wants the player to interrogate them and kill the spies. The Argonian and Dunmer slaves are innocent, while a Khajiit and an Altmer are the spies. The player can also free the spy-slaves, though they will later come back to try and assassinate the player for blowing their cover. (No good deed goes unpunished, and all that.)
--(Capstone and/or high level) The Indoril and the Camonna Tong have come together on the common ground that they want the Empire and outlanders ousted from their homelands, and are trying to negotiate a more peaceable resolution to the Thirr River Conflict so that they may focus on their common enenmy. The player is asked to go and break this meeting up--mostly by killing them all. (Legion quest?)

Also, this, depending on where the section file cuts are made: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/claims/hlaalu-hetman-and-squirmy-scrib-pie

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These are nice, some really nice -- thanks, Kevaar! I'd wait with anything that references the Hlaalu-Indoril conflict, though; we first need to understand the conflict and figure out to what extent it will be resolved (if it will be fully resolved, then some of the quest must be stopped, which complicates everything).

Meanwhile, here is a design for Vathras Plantation (ex Othras Plantation) from PMs between Rats and myself. This may serve as the tutorial quest for Morrowind's persuasion system, since the plantation is on *the* road between Andothren and Almas Thirr.

A Khajiit's calling

Llaalsa Vathras, the friendly-presenting leader of Vathras Plantation, asks you for a favor. While she has some slaves toiling on her plantation, she is also in the business of buying and selling slaves -- buying from catcatchers, selling to end-users. Normally she quickly sees what a slave is capable of and what it can be trusted with. Not so in the case of the household slave Ahnaissa the Khajiit, who she believes is hiding some skills from her that, if revealed, would allow Llaalsa to sell her for a higher price. Ahnaissa isn't being open to Llaalsa -- probably she wants to delay getting sold as much as possible -- but Llaalsa suspects Ahnaissa might open up to a helpful stranger. So she sends you off to Ahnaissa, suggesting that you bribe yourself into her favor with a few 10-gold bribes (as I said, this is a persuasion tutorial too) and then ask her about her upbringing and her homeland.

Once you do that, she inadvertently reveals the fact that she was trained in the erotic arts [we need someone to come up with a reasonable Khajiit backstory for this], a secret she prefers not to part with as it would otherwise determine her future career. She asks you to lie to Llaalsa. You go back and ...

Option 1: ... tell Llaalsa the truth. The slave reappears later in a brothel in a Hlaalu town (we can leave this up for later), not very happy. You get a reasonable reward from Llaalsa (120 gold?).

Option 2: ... lie to Llaalsa that you didn't spot any real skills. Llaalsa is not convinced and scolds you for chatting instead of investigating. You get no reward or something very small (20 gold?), possibly a minor disposition drop.

Option 3: ... lie to Llaalsa that Ahnaissa is trained as a thief. Llaalsa thanks you, telling you that while thievery is common among Khajiit, not many are able to perform it skillfully and mindfully; and that she believes to know some buyers who appreciate such a skill among slaves. You get the same reward as for Option 1; Ahnaissa gets sold to the Camonna Tong and may end up dead later on (again, leave this for later, once we implement CT quests).

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Elaborating on one of the proposals in post #1:

Catcatching in Almas Thirr

In the Almas Thirr plaza, a Hlaalu retainer from Andothren -- let me call him Nerlis, but feel free to change name and even house if it would make it better -- asks you for help. He has come to Almas Thirr with his Khajiit slave, Aillijar, to buy [come up with some bulky item that he needs a slave to carry home]. While he was distracted, the Khajiit disappeared. He may have hidden anywhere on the plaza or in the buildings accessible from it, but he cannot have left the Plaza -- Nerlis has been keeping his eyes on the gates that lead out of the plaza. Nerlis asks you to find the stray cat.

Ask around. No one in the buildings has seen the slave, but a few people outside recall seeing some Khajiit climbing around. Eventually you find the slave on top of the Temple ("Office of Intercession"):

 TR_IndorilThirr_v.0214.esp    8/14/2018 (22:02)    skraeling    ex_vivec_h_14    Almas Thirr, Plaza    3904    3409    11867    "here"

He quietly asks you to help out with a Divine Intervention or an Invisibility (similarly to the first Akamora FG quest) or by sending Nerlis on a wild goose chase. The first two methods are straightforward.

Having talked with Aillijar, you return to Nerlis and have several options:

Option 1: Rat out the slave. Nerlis walks to the Temple and threatens to call the ordinators on Aillijar. If Aillijar is actually up there, he curses you and jumps down; Nerlis thanks you with 150 gold and possibly an increase in some traders' disposition (over in Andothren). If Aillijar is gone (thanks to you), Nerlis is pissed about your prank (for that's what he believes you have done) and his disposition drops significantly.

Option 2: Claim that the slave is hiding in Majordomo's Sanctum. Nerlis follows you there and looks around, finding nothing but annoying the ordinators there. Again, Nerlis is pissed.

Option 3: Claim that the slave has run into the Temple offices. Nerlis follows you there. If you go through the Office of Intercession to the Office of Recording and there to the door to the Waistworks, Nerlis realizes that the slave could have run off to the waistworks long ago -- the Plaza isn't as un-escapeable as he thought. He gives up the search and thanks you with 50 gold.

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What I consider to be the 5 lowest-hanging fruit for the next release:

(1) Vathras plantation: A Khajiit's calling

https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/comment/11254#comment-11254

TLDR: A slave-seller believes that one of her slaves has a skill she's hiding. Find it out. Semi-tutorial quest, introducing the disposition/bribe system. Several options of various ethical character.
[Needs a bit of lore to give the slave a LGNPC-level backstory.]

(2) Almas Thirr: Catcatching in Almas Thirr

https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/comment/11299#comment-11299

TLDR: Help a Hlaalu retainer catch a slave who is hiding on top of the Temple in the Almas Thirr plaza. Easy puzzle quest, requiring a bit of acrobatics/jump/levitation. Several options of various ethical character.
[Needs a Hlaalu retainer.]

(3) Almas Thirr: Bloodstone Shrine pilgrimage

If we follow Rats'(?) idea that the Bloodstone Shrine commemorates Veloth wandering in a stone-infested shoe, then the pilgrimage to the Bloodstone Shrine may require the player to do the same. It shouldn't be hard to script a pair of shoes to hurt the player when being worn.
[Needs consensus on the shrine.]
[Needs removal of old info about the shrine from the file. From what I understand, we should just delete the book tr_i3-685_thetaleofbloodstonesh, which isn't used anyway, and fix the messagebox in script TR_m3_BloodstoneShrineScript, and the "Bloodstone Shrine" dialogue. And, of course, put the new story somewhere. Doesn't need to be very prominent -- the player should just hear it when making the pilgrimage.]

(4) Almas Thirr: The perils of literacy

The book merchant (Tilresi) is in trouble with the ordinators since an abolitionist screed was found in her shop. (If that's not outlawed: try heretical texts.) She suspects a rival wannabe of setting her up. Alternatively, she admits to the player that she did have that book, but asks the player to present an excuse.
[Needs understanding about who is in charge of heresy at Almas Thirr.]

(5) Almas Thirr: Brother against brother

https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/claims/brother-against-brother

TLDR: Two Velothi brothers are interested in joining either House Indoril or House Hlaalu. When one of them discovers a stolen Indoril helmet in a shop, the decision is forced on them. One brother wishes to steal the helmet and thus align himself with House Hlaalu, while the other one wants to return the helmet to the Indoril and thus align himself with House Indoril.
[Needs basic understanding of the river conflict.]

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In connection with the third quest, here's a new shrine text for the Bloodstone Shrine:

Veloth led his people to the edge of the River Thirr, at the time a raging torrent with no crossing in sight. The Velothi were uncertain how to continue and paused, and so did Veloth, but only to remove his shoes before stepping forth into the waters. And no sooner were the shoes removed than a bloodied stone dislodged from his foot where it had been afflicting him, and no sooner did he step into the waters than they ceased their raging and healed his wound. So do the Velothi overcome the trials that surround them through forthright progress, and so do their surroundings provide for them if they prove their mettle.

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Perfect, if you ask me.

My suggestion for the specifics of the Bloodstone pilgrimage:

- At the Bloodstone Shrine (or perhaps in the monastery before it), you are greeted along the lines of "This is the Bloodstone Shrine, where Saint Veloth forded the Thirr. Are you here to make the pilgrimage?". When you ask for "the pilgrimage", you're directed to Hetman Llothro's house at the western side of town.

- You go to "Almas Thirr, Hetman Llothro's House", near the western entrance of the Canalworks, and talk to Llothro. She gives you a pair of "Weather-worn shoes" and tells you to walk to the Shrine in these shoes. The shoes are scripted in such a way that they eat slowly at your health and your fatigue as you walk in them, more quickly as you run in them, and badly as you jump in them.

- If you walk in these shoes the whole way without taking them off, you can activate the Shrine. (Otherwise, you have to start again in the hetman's house.) It removes the shoes and you get a blessing that restores all attributes and skills. (From now on, you can get this blessing simply by activating the shrine any time; it's not exactly unbalancing.)

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The pilgrimage quest looks good.

I would edit the ending ever so slightly: if the player walks the entire way without taking off the shoes they get a special Bloodstone added in their inventory which they leave at the shrine as an offering when they activate it.

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A Khajiit's Calling looks good, will put this into a claim.

Cat-Catching--have we confirmed this spot is reachable to the player without levitation? (And/or do we care...) However, getting an NPC to jump down is difficult, so the endings here will need a rewrite, preferrably with the NPC not having to follow the player around. Otherwise I like this.

The pilgrimmage also looks good to go, and I will put this in a claim.

Perils of Literacy -- I think I know a good book for this. A proposed re-write:
A rival noticed the bookseller carries this book, and is attempting to get her in trouble for it: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/asset/importance-heresy However, as the bookseller points out, if the rival had actually read the book, he/she would find it's not a heretical book at all. Still, she's received word the Ordinators have been called on her and she doesn't want a scene, since it will likely interfere with business (some mention may be made of how terrible it would be if a heathen Hlaalu merchant were to replace her, to reference the Thirr River Conflict). She asks the player to obtain this book so she may put it on display with the other, thus satisfying the Ordinators: https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/asset/evil-heresy This second book can be found in the Temple, where a player can convince a priest to give them a copy, or otherwise just steal it from the shelves.

Brother vs. Brother is already a claim. I'll change that it's no longer based in Old Ebonheart though.

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And some cleanup notes:
Perils of Literacy is now a claim.

And I'm officially naming these designs for quests. With another reviewers' go-ahead, they should be ready for claims.
"His Death"
A Dunmer asks the player to help him knock off an Indoril tollmer so that he may take the tollmer's place and status. The player can either sneak in and modify some records, or arrange to push the tollmer off a bridge (aka assassinate him). The Dunmer's motive may be that his ancestors were among those who offed themselves and so his family has been struggling in light of that, or that he was just plain of low birth and is trying to climb the social ladder.

"My Death"
An Indoril noble has found out that he is wanted dead by the Morag Tong. To overturn the old trope, he actually wants to die because he believes he has committed a sin that the assassination will wash him clean of, so that he can meet his ancestors in honor. The player helps him meet his death.

"Learned Proverbs"
House Indoril has sent a priest (and/or the player?) to preach wacky Indoril proverbs at the Velothi to convince them to do their duty to House Indoril. The player can choose to help House Hlaalu by picking fun at the proverbs and misinterpretting them, or help the Indoril by helping the Velothi interpret them correctly.

"No Good Deed"
A shipment of mixed race slaves is waiting in Almas Thirr to go to an Indoril buyer. The buyer has discovered that some of the slaves are actually there to serve as Hlaalu spies, and wants the player to interrogate them and kill the spies. The Argonian and Dunmer slaves are innocent, while a Khajiit and an Altmer are the spies. The player can also free the spy-slaves, though they will later come back to try and assassinate the player for blowing their cover. (No good deed goes unpunished, and all that.)

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Those all look good to me. I suggest that the spy slaves react differently for added fun; the Altmer might be genuinely thankful and would high-tail it out of Morrowind and try to forget it ever happened, whereas the Khajiit might ambush the player with a few Hlaalu thugs.

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Update: these quests have been turned into claims.
His Death
My Death
Learned Proverbs
No Good Deed
The Catcatchers*

*I changed the wording so it's up to the quest dev how to get across Nerlis' reaction to being sent to the various locations. As said before, it's wickedly difficult to get NPCs to walk around to specific places, let alone jumping, but there's nothing wrong with the design beyond that.

That's all the quests from this thread. For other AT-relevant quests that still need approving/claiming, see this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FVltN3hbt2wlugCB-VE1yGER4qs5msVR8TTaMXv42rE/edit?usp=sharing
 

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