InfallibleDres Showcase

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InfallibleDres
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Hello, everyone! I’m InfallibleDres! 

I’ve put together a showcase that I hope will eventually be worthy of at least allowing me to create interiors. I’ve labeled it “Balmora, Sathryn Adrethi’s House” in-game but it doesn’t actually have an exterior, though I hope someday to progress to making exteriors and doing questing/lore. I know it’s not for a ways off still, but I really like the idea of working on Dres stuff and figured this was a good time to try and get my foot in the door. 

I used to mod for Morrowind around ten years or so ago (heh...) but I may as well be brand new at this point (read: I’m terrible.) Any criticism is very appreciated and I hope my first creation is at least not an eyesore. I tried to follow some of the guides with special attention paid to rotation, not mixing styles, and cleaning the mod. I did use a fork that I think was technically labeled “com” but I couldn’t find any “de” forks.

The inspirtation for the dwelling is something along the lines of “Hlaalu scout who made enough money to retire lower middle-class and likes to drink and read” if that makes sense. I try to have a concept in mind for things like this. 

With all that rambling out of the way, I look forward to any input! 

 

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Binary Data Clean InfalDresTesShowcase.ESP8.72 KB2016-12-23 23:47
sirrah's picture
sirrah
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Hi InfallibleDres, welcome to TR!

I’ve had a quick look at your interior, and it looks good! You’ve got a clear handle on rotation, used plenty of de_p furniture, and I don’t see any style-mixing. The design is quite nice (not an eyesore at all!). If no-one else gets to it in the next few days, I’ll try to get this reviewed before the new year.

Regarding the misc_com_ cutlery; generally speaking, misc_com_ items can appear in any interior regardless of the occupant’s culture (use your best judgement, of course.) There’s no de_ variant of the cutlery set, so you’ve made the right choice in using them.

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InfallibleDres
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Thanks, and good to know! Looking forward to the review.

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Parker
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Stylistically, this looks quite good. It could use a little more clutter here and there, but for a standard house the number of objects works fine. I don’t have the best eye for catching technical errors, so I’ll stick to artistic tips.

Already, you have a good grasp of resizing objects, like the urns and sacks, to vary their appearance in the interior. Good job.

I would recommend only using two taprestry variants in a small interior like this, to give it a consistent, uniform look. For this home, I would limit them to furn_de_tapestry_03 and furn_de_tapestry_09 – they look good together.

The window on the bottom floor is too close to the corner.

For your first showcase file, this is a promising start. If you wish to grow as a modder, I recommend checking out other people’s work for inspiration. In paticular, the modder Scamp posted many impressive interiors on his blog back in the day.

The modder formerly known as Yeti.
Head of NPCs - Skyrim: Home of the Nords

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sirrah
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Alrighty, I've given this a look-through. The file is clean, lighting is good, "Illegal to sleep here" is set, and a Northmarker is present, everything that needs to be gridsnapped is gridsnapped, the in_ pieces all fit together well and you've used plenty of de_p furniture; all great to see. The only issues that really need addressing concern placement/rotation of objects.

Parker's points are all good; as an addendum on the windows, try to position them so they're bleeding at a consistent depth throughout the interior (currently, some are slightly further from the wall than others). This is pretty easy to do using the lines on the window texture as a guide.

The bed should have a misc_uni_pillow_01 placed on it.

Below is a list of placement issues that need fixing. Try to make sure objects are lying as flat as possible along their respective surfaces (not floating above or bleeding into); with furniture like the de_p bookshelves it's often better to position things so they are only lying across a single triangle/face of the surface (you can check this by pressing "W" to enter wireframe mode. Also, be wary of 'caspering' items (where portions of the invisible underside of objects are not completely bled out of sight).

 

If you run into any trouble, please don’t hesitate to ask for advice in this thread. Once you’ve got all these fixed up, I’ll give you a second review.

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InfallibleDres
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Thanks for all the patience and advice, friends! Before I launch into a series of questions, haha. Most things make sense but on a few points I may need clarification.
 

bk_AncestorsAndTheDunmer (4175.374, 4702.265, 15757.028) - Floating; objects on unsteady surfaces should have at least three points of contact with the surface (you can get away with two for very long objects like spears, but books should have at least three.)

  bk_Anticipations (4275.414, 4468.300, 15825.864) - Floating.

  BookSkill_Armorer2 (4273.728, 4467.007, 15819.748) - Floating.

 

Ok, to begin, I may need some help understanding this one. I followed one of the modding guides and rotated/placed all the books so that the lines surrounding them are broken, that is they are neither solid nor disappearing into the furniture. Or at least as far as I can tell from each angle that is what I did. Is this not the case? Is there any easy way for me to tell? Additionally, I have heard of the wireframe technique but most of the triangles seem to small to fit any objects upon them, and centering them seems to force you to have at least one side of the object in the air? There’s something I am not grasping here. Is there a guide that explains it in more detail than the TR rotation guide? 
 

 

  chest_small_01_gold_50 (4279.645, 4435.624, 15733.375) - Resting unsteadily

And if I may request clarification on this one. How can I rest it steady without bleeding it into the bookshelf, being that the bookshelf is uneven?

Just about everything else makes sense, though. I have additionally taken Parker’s aesthetic advice into account, and had been pondering such myself, but wasn’t sure if TR would prefer more aesthetic variety or would err on a more conventional, base-game, style. Honestly I favor the latter myself but what’s life without a little risk. Good learning.

Also, on a slightly unrelated question, what happens with showcase interiors? Do they get used in TR once they pass muster?

Thanks again, I will do my best to fix everything. 

EDIT: decided to go ahead and try your fixes anyway, seeing what I could do. I am not so confident about certain things. The fork gave me trouble, as did the books, I wasn’t sure about the message on furn_de_p_table 4 and the adjusted coordinates, and I couldn’t find any urns bleeding into one another (so I just spaced them all out a bit further to make sure.) I updated it with Parker’s design suggestions, did my best to raise the candles, etc. I figured this could be useful in helping me figure out if this is on the right track (and if I did exactly what you wanted) or if I am moving the opposite direction somehow. 

 

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Binary Data Clean InfalDresTesShowcase.ESP8.87 KB2016-12-27 07:55
sirrah's picture
sirrah
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The selection box is a good guide, but unless you’re placing on a completely flat surface (i.e., the floor or a single triangle), you’ll need to eyeball it. To take the example in question, though: if you take a look at bk_AncestorsAndTheDunmer, the selection box shows a dashed line along the bottom and right edges (http://i.imgur.com/1dYg3kO.png), however if you position the camera to face either of those edges, you can see a gap between the edge and the table (http://i.imgur.com/ZhruEiX.png http://i.imgur.com/iUmdoMS.png). If you have trouble getting close enough to check, make sure you’ve set the camera rotation/zoom values low enough. I’m afraid I can’t help pointing you towards a more detailed guide; sadly Morrowind’s modding scene has rather atrophied over the years, but maybe someone else here knows of a decent guide somewhere.

Regarding the chest; the issue with the current position is that the chest is resting directly on a bend in the shelf (circled here: http://i.imgur.com/apoDGL1.png). It needs to be rotated a degree or two along the X-axis and shifted to the right of the bend.

Generally speaking, showcases aren’t used in TR; but if you run across an interior claim that matches your showcase in exterior and design, feel free to submit it!

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Ok! I figured out what a lot of the problems were. I (stupidly) had a mod left installed that alters the meshes of the de_p furniture. Whoops. So I got rid of that and took another look. The wireframe was a lot simpler in vanilla than in those imrpoved meshes, and instead of 5,000+ tiny triangles there were usually just several larger ones that made it a lot easier to work with. I tried to incorporate the fixes and Parker’s stylistic suggestions, and hopefully between that, the mod fix, and everything else it looks better now. 

 

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Binary Data Clean InfalDresTesShowcase.ESP8.89 KB2016-12-28 05:21
sirrah's picture
sirrah
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Glad you were able to sort out the problem! It’s easy to forget about mesh replacers, since they don’t use plugins (we should probably explicitly mention this in the showcase guidelines). You’ve remedied quite a few of the issues I pointed out, but there are still several that need work. Don’t feel that you need to rush to get it ready for the next review; take your time going through the following list, pay close attention to how objects are rotated and confirm they’re lining up with their respective surfaces.

Here’s a list of the remaining issues:

 
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InfallibleDres
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Alright, I had another day off work (I do a three days on/four days off schedule in a logistics field) so I decided to take a really patient crack at it, this morning. I went down the list, one by one, and tried to devote at least a few minutes to each item and the relating items nearest to it. The books still gave me some trouble, but I think I managed to strike a good balance with them. The candles were were harder due to the curvature of the smaller de_p tables, so I definitely need extra pointers on those if they’re still not balanced. Everything else I am confident should be serviceable, especially the tapestries. Of course, as I said above, having the original meshes really helped. 

On the upstairs floor I decided to drop the scroll of redmind down to the floor and place it near the bed, as I couldn’t find a placement for it I felt was believable and aesthetically pleasing. A long object like that on the smaller de_p tables just seemed to either bleed or float in different spots no matter where you placed it. There might be a way to get it on there, but it just never seemed to jive for me. 

In any case, I thank you again for the patience and advice. I’m trying to make this the best learning experience I can because I really want to help work on TR. 

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Binary Data Clean InfalDresTesShowcase.ESP8.89 KB2016-12-28 23:11
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InfallibleDres
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Bump.

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InfallibleDres
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Bump.

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sirrah
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Sorry, it’s taken me a few days to get back to this; there are only a few issues remaining, but do try and fix them all for the next review.

Regarding the candles; the best way to get them to line up is to use the selection box as a guide as you’ve been doing, and then position the camera so you’re looking at a cross-section of the surface you’re placing it on and rotate it until the bottom edge and the surface are lining up. If you tend to use the scroll wheel to zoom and are having difficulty getting the camera close enough, try using the ‘V' key instead as it gives you a finer control.

The remaining issues are as follows:

 
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InfallibleDres
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Hey! Sorry this took so long. I went down the list one by one and think I've gotten everything. Some problems I had a hard time finding but I did my best to even everything out. I hope this makes it, but I understand you have standards to uphold. In any case, if I don't leap this hurdle I'll never leap the others. 

Thanks again for your time. 

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Binary Data Clean InfalDresTesShowcase.ESP8.89 KB2017-09-07 20:20
sirrah's picture
sirrah
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Hey InfallibleDres, thanks for resubmitting! This is much improved; there are a few very minor floaters/bleeders left but nothing egregious enough to hold back your promotion. I'm recommending for promotion to interior developer. Congrats! 

Once you've been officially promoted, you'll find available interior claims under the "Help Needed" tab of your Dashboard. You can also find them by filtering for "Unclaimed" in the Claims Browser (under Development in the top menu)

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InfallibleDres
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Thanks, Sirrah! Excited to get started, for sure. 

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Kevaar
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Congratulations on your promotion!

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Fürst Thal
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To make it fit for inclusion I changed the entrance a bit and added a second one on the 2.Floor. I also moved the 2.Floor a bit to make it corospond to ex_hlaalu_b_22. I also removed the windows which will need to be readded when merged.

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Binary Data HlaaluInteriorInfalDres.ESP9.13 KB2018-09-14 00:10