Razenmaeher Quest showcase

13 posts / 0 new
Last post
razenmaeher's picture
razenmaeher
DeveloperQuest Developer
Joined:
2019-05-19 19:54
Last seen:
4 months 1 week ago

Hello, 

I go by the username of razenmaeher and I would  like to help in the development of tamriel rebuilt. Thus I have decided to create a quest showcase. For this quest I went kind of in an own direction and did not strictly adhere to lore. Also I have only spend little time with bugtracking, so you might run into the one or the other issue. Just ask me and I would be glad to tell you my intentions with the quest design I have also included a pdf as a walkthrough and to explain the quest a bit. Install like any other mod,  but make sure to have the current release PT_Data.esm and TR_mainland.esm loaded as it relies on those.

I just want to emphazise how much fun I had learning to make my own quests and I want to thank you for providing me with the motivation to do so. 

Thank you and I hope you enjoy,

-razenmaeher
AttachmentSizeDate
File TR_Showcase_Nefarians Exile_razenmaeher.7z168.81 KB2019-05-19 20:45
Jani's picture
Jani
Lead DeveloperDeveloperInterior DeveloperQuest Developer
Joined:
2017-10-08 01:57
Last seen:
11 hours 9 min ago

Welcome to Tamriel Rebuilt!

Before you can be promoted to quest developer, a reviewer is going to make sure that everything in your quest works as intended. Unfortunately, this might take a while. Until then, we'd be glad to have you on our Discord server, where most development discussions take place: https://discordapp.com/invite/9T6TtNU

Telumendur's picture
Telumendur
DeveloperReviewer
Joined:
2019-03-20 13:12
Last seen:
5 months 1 week ago

Welcome, and congrats on making the jump to contribute to TR!

I'll try to have an in-game look at your quest some time next week, Razenmaeher; I'll let you know how it goes. Your showcase looks ambitious, but since you're not aiming to have it actually implemented in TR, the main thing we need to check is whether it works out-of-the-box or not, and how well you can iterate on feedback.

Thanks already for the documentation you wrote for the showcase, it's very complete, and will prove useful while playtesting it! (For the record, next time, you can just as well post this documentation right in a forum post, instead of in a PDF inside the 7zip downoad.)

Oh, and no need to be so formal in your writing around here: the whole team is very friendly, relaxed, and to-the-point. Take it easy! ;-)

razenmaeher's picture
razenmaeher
DeveloperQuest Developer
Joined:
2019-05-19 19:54
Last seen:
4 months 1 week ago

Alrighty, 
hope you enjoy. In Hindsight it is quite out of the box ^^ guess I just wanted to try some things out for myself and got a little excited.

Telumendur's picture
Telumendur
DeveloperReviewer
Joined:
2019-03-20 13:12
Last seen:
5 months 1 week ago

Hi again! I just gave your showcase a spin in-game, and am here to report. While it is definitely unbalanced and not lore-friendly, so won't be fitting for inclusion in TR, the quest itself works almost flawlessly! You clearly know your way around the CS, manage to strike the right tone in most places, and are quite fluent in english (you use idiomatic phrases, etc). You also managed to catch most bugs yourself before submitting the quest, and provided all console codes required to make playtesting easier, which I'm very thankful for. So overall, it's great!

Here are a couple points to address, though: the only game-braking one is found in Quest 2, the others are small things, or even things you could chose to ignore, depending on your reasoning. Note that since you're not aiming for inclusion of the quest into TR, I don't report all the small typo/dialogue flow problems I saw (not that many, but they're a couple), but that's fine, we'll care about such details on your first actual claim. ;-) Here we go:
Quest 1:

  • bringing Nefarian a Mortar and Pestle of better quality than Journeyman should also be accepted.
  • the area with the hidden dwemer spider is too close to the tent, and its grunts can be heard by the player while staying in the tent, hinting that something fishy's up. If that's intentional, though, everything's fine.

Quest 2:

  • I found no way to start this quest: talking to Rilvin during quests 1 and 3, or before quest 1, didn't yield the required topic to start the quest. I also tried while being member of House Telvanni, to no avail. Maybe I'm just missing something?

Quest 3:

  • the power-finding spider should actually spit out pieces of paper when the player uses it to find out where to look for the next gem (ie have a piece of paper appear on the ground, with the text currently in the dialogue window written on it)
  • the journal entry for the second gem (the Gem of Soul) suggests that the players asks Nefarian where the chasm lies. Nefarian has no topic for that, however.
  • the hint for the third gem has a typo: "Forgotten Vaults" --> "Forgotten Vault" (if your intent is to give the cell's exact name)
  • the dwemer spider skips the hint for the 4th gem (Space), and moves on straight to the 5th (Power). It does come back to the 4th gem after the 6th, though, so it's not quest-breaking.
  • there is no journal entry for finding the 6th gem (Mind)
  • the Gems of Reality and Mind have no topic entry in Nefarian's dialogue.
  • Nefarian Nelos, topic Gems of Infinity: maybe his line could be slightly altered, so that as long as the player doesn't have all six Gems, he urges him to go looking for them.
  • Rilvin Dral, topic Gems of Infinity: he has the same line as other NPCs on the topic, resulting in him speaking about himself in the third person. This should be changed so that he has a special line.

Quest 4:

  • there is no journal entry for killing Rilvin Dral, even though there is one for killing Nefarian.
  • shouldn't the NPC Nefarian Nelos get deactivated upon him becoming the new Rilvin Dral? It's confusing to still see him around his tent. This could be achieved elegantly with some spell effect, maybe.

Overall:

  • you should remove the mesh that comes with this showcase: quest claims are typically ESP-only, in TR. If a quest requires new assets, then placeholder assets are used until those new ones are included in Tamriel_Data. Thus it's perfectly fine to replace your custom meshes with some placeholder ones, for the purpose of this showcase.

That's it. I'd advise you address those points in a new upload (or if you choose to ignore some of them, just write a quick justification, that's fine). That new upload can then be playtested by me and reviewed in the CS by someone else (I only check the in-game side of things), and we should be done. Looking forward to the update!

razenmaeher's picture
razenmaeher
DeveloperQuest Developer
Joined:
2019-05-19 19:54
Last seen:
4 months 1 week ago

Hey, 
Thanks for playing through the whole thing and for all the great feedback. I will rework some stuff once I get home.

You should be able to get access to the second quest. It is supposed to be accessible if you finish the quests that are related with him an his mouth. I will look at how you approached the quest and fix it asap. 

One thing on the gems and the order you find them in: There was never supposed to be an order to it in case you stumble upon any of the gems. This is supposed to be a viable option to start the quest chain.

On the journal update for killing rilvin, I was playing around with the cs and didn't want to edit rilvins script or make a global script. So I experimented with the new dialogue only being available if rilvin is dead. This however ment I couldn't implement the new journal update. There is probably a work around but I don't know it yet. Maybe I will just attach the script to an item in the cell... 

The idea behind the snap was that you create an illusion for nefarian that he controls. But I think that can be easy to implement and I definitely get why it is confusing. 

Overall you playing through helped bring in a new perspective and I hope I will be able to fix some of the issues.

Telumendur's picture
Telumendur
DeveloperReviewer
Joined:
2019-03-20 13:12
Last seen:
5 months 1 week ago

razenmaeher
You should be able to get access to the second quest. It is supposed to be accessible if you finish the quests that are related with him an his mouth. I will look at how you approached the quest and fix it asap.

That'd be it, then: I playtested the quest with a brand-new, console-buffed character, which is the standard procedure around here. It's totally OK to have the quest be relying on progress in a faction, but don't forget to specify it in the description next time this occurs.

As for the order of the gems: good to know! I see you thought of everything ;)

razenmaeher's picture
razenmaeher
DeveloperQuest Developer
Joined:
2019-05-19 19:54
Last seen:
4 months 1 week ago

Okay,  
I have  overhauled most of the issues you have talked about. I know it is still not perfect but maybe I can try my hands on a quest that is supposed to be implemented in the game. That way we can talk more about how I can improve my lore accuracy. If  you can point me to a quest that I should work on, I would be happy to do so. Nonetheless here is the changelog for the updated showcase: 

Changelog V2:

  •  Added the option to hand in a mortar of a higher quality to Nefarian Nelos. 
  • Moved the cellar further down, so the noise from the power-seeking device is less obnoxious.
  • The power-seeking device will now correctly print out paper that will be added to the players inventory.
  • The journal will no longer point you towards Nefarian when looking for the Gems
  • The topic “Gems of Infinity” has been slightly revised to make Rilvin seem less crazy and Nelos give an alternate speech if you have already found one of the gems.
  • The problem with the Journal not updating when picking up the Gem of Reality or of Mind because you hadn’t picked them up from the game world physically has been fixed. They now update upon acquiring the item.
  • The journal now correctly updates once you kill Rilvin.
  • Nefarian Nelos now disappears with the snap

I  hope everything is in order, I did kind of rush these changes and I am sorry if i reintroduced some bugs. 

Happy Hunting :)

AttachmentSizeDate
File TR_ModdingShowcase_Razenmaeher_NelothExile_V2.7z141.5 KB2019-05-24 22:17
Telumendur's picture
Telumendur
DeveloperReviewer
Joined:
2019-03-20 13:12
Last seen:
5 months 1 week ago

Hey there,

Nice job fixing all the issues I reported! I managed to playtest Quest 2 this time around, using the console to artificially complete Dral's Telvanni quest to get the "all these distractions" topic to appear.
As you feared, the fixes did introduce new bugs, though. Here they are, divided in "should be fixed" and "nitpicking that doesn't need fixing" categories:

Should be fixed:

  • The potion Nefarian's Refresher is missing its mesh and icon: it appears as a magenta square in the player's inventory, and as a yellow-and-black exclamation mark in the gameworld.
  • The gems of Infinity and Time are missing their mesh and icon: they appear as magenta squares in the player's inventory, and as a yellow-and-black exclamation mark in the gameworld. Incidentally, this makes them way easier to spot :P
  • There's a discrepancy between the Gems: some are called "Reality Gem of XXX", others "Infinity Gem of XXX". I guess you decided to rename them at some point, but didn't get through the whole list. (Nefarian's topics for each Gem all read "Infinity Gem of XXX", btw, as do the Journal entries).
  • After having found all Six Gems, the Spider cycles back to spitting out the Bisandryon hint if the player activates it, instead of stopping to produce hints.
  • Quest 4 is now broken: ratting out Nefarian to Rilvin, then killing Nefarian and coming back to Rilvin, it is impossible to collect the reward because the topic new Rilvin Dral has disappeared from Rilvin's list. Loading a previous save back (after having ratted Nefarian out, but before killing him) and trying to kill Rilvin instead also gets the player stuck, since Nefarian's new Rilvin Dral line remains at "Yes that is right....", even after Rilvin's death. I haven't tested what happens if you decide to kill Rilvin from the get-go, without ratting Nefarian out.

Nitpicking that doesn't need fixing:

  • There's a typo in the Spider's dialogue for the Massulahibernanit hint: the sentence is cut short after "...Chasm-", and is missing the "bossom of Azura" part.
  • The same problem appears in the Ruinous Keep hint: the sentence is cut short.
  • There's also a typo on the piece of paper which has the directions to the Ruinous Keep: "power---ful" --> "powerful"
  • After having found all Six Gems, the Spider cycles back to spitting out the Bisandryon hint if the player activates it, instead of stopping to produce hints.

I'd advise for a second round of fixing, and after that we should be all set! There are several small typos and wording issues throughout the dialogue, but that really doesn't matter too much since we're not aiming for inclusion of the quest into TR. As for your suggestions of moving on to other quests: we're in a shortage of "easy" quest claims right now, but the situation should be remediated soon. Look out for new quest claims opening in the Browser soon, and claim one that takes your fancy, once you're promoted ;)
 

razenmaeher's picture
razenmaeher
DeveloperQuest Developer
Joined:
2019-05-19 19:54
Last seen:
4 months 1 week ago

Hey Telumendur, thanks for playing through it all once again. 

I honestly didn't think I would break the quest that badly, but I had only playtested killing Rilvin without ratting out Nefarian. As the missing meshes go, I thought i was supposed to exclude them for the purpose of making a quest, as according to your previous comment I am only supposed  to use a .esp file. I have included the meshes again for now. 

Changelog: 

  • I have once again included the meshes and textures.
  • Renamed the Infinity Gem of Reality and Soul to better match the others. 
  • Added a dialogue option for the spider if you have already found all of the gems. 
  • Fixed several typos that appeared while talking to the spider. 
  • I have made sure to add the topic new Rilvin Dral, so quest four should be completable once you have ratted out nefarian. Also fixed an small typo in the script responsible for updating quest progress once Rilvin is killed. 

This should fix your main complaints. At least it did so when I playtested it on my end. I hope the results are satisfactory and I will be keeping an eye on the quest claim browser. 

AttachmentSizeDate
File TR_ModdingShowcase_Razenmaeher_NelothExile_V3.7z169.97 KB2019-05-28 21:38
Telumendur's picture
Telumendur
DeveloperReviewer
Joined:
2019-03-20 13:12
Last seen:
5 months 1 week ago

8 hours between playtest report and fixed version? Now that's what I call a fast turnaround!

I'm sorry if my comment on the additional meshes misguided you: what I had in mind was that you would replace your custom meshes with some others already found in vanilla or Tamriel_Data, not that you would leave those objects mesh-less. I believe the way this is done by other TR questers in need of a unique object is as follow: find an existing object which has the desired appearance, duplicate it, change its properties as needed, and save it as part of your quest's ESP. It'd be good if some other quester could confirm this, though.

I have a final point that I didn't catch earlier: when picking up the first Infinity Gem after having been tasked to do so by Nefarian, the Journal entry "I have picked up a Gem that resonates..." still fires up, as if the player stumbled upon the Gem by chance before ever talking to Nefarian. This should be changed so that this entry doesn't show up in such a case. However, there's no need for you to fix it, this is just a heads-up for future similar things.

Since we're not aiming at inclusion of this quest into TR proper, I think we can bypass the CS review by a dedicated reviewer, so that I'm recommending you for promotion! You've clearly shown that you know how to implement intricate quests, and that you thought of most of the pitfalls (what if the player stumbles upon the quest by chance, etc) in advance. Congrats!

You can now go ahead and claim other quests in the Claims Browser. I see you're interested in the My Death claim already. As Vern points out, the best place to get quick replies to your questions would be TR's Discord server, where most of the active devs hang out every day. The invitation link can be found in the "Community" tab in the website's header bar. Looking forward to meet you there!

Jani's picture
Jani
Lead DeveloperDeveloperInterior DeveloperQuest Developer
Joined:
2017-10-08 01:57
Last seen:
11 hours 9 min ago

Promoting. Congratulations!

I see you already have your eyes on a claim, so I've granted it to you. Good choice! As it's a smaller quest, we should be able to review it quickly once you're done. A proper CS review helps us make sure that you properly understand the technical side of quest development, and you'll be allowed to work on larger claims afterwards.

Rot's picture
Rot
Lead DeveloperDeveloperQuest Developer
Joined:
2014-03-16 17:45
Last seen:
9 hours 35 min ago

Hi, not a review and not asking you to edit this file, just some technical pointers for future work,

When modding for TR claims you want to use the internal file TR_Mainland.esp, not the public release .esm, the format difference is explained here
https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/content/tutorial-esm-esp-understanding-m...
if you need some edits that you can't do to an esp master with your claim, they go into merging instructions that will be done to TR_Mainland.esp directly

Scripts:
- it's good practice to be consistent with commas or spaces in a line, a line that uses spaces except in one place will usually still work but if for some reason it doesn't then you'll waste time trying to find why

 

    If (GetJournalIndex "TR_m2_TheInfinityHunt" < 75 )
    If ( OnActivate ==0)
better:
    If ( GetJournalIndex "TR_m2_TheInfinityHunt" < 75 )
    If ( OnActivate == 0 )

another example, there's a bug associated with having spaces around "->" like that, shouldn't happen when targeting player but with other ids you could have an issue
 

 

set objectcount to ( player -> GetItemCount, "TR_InfinityGemMind")
player-> additem "Gold_001" 12500
better:
set objectcount to ( player->GetItemCount, "TR_InfinityGemMind" )
player->additem "Gold_001" 12500

I didn't follow the quest but here are some comments from looking at the scripts:

 

- script InfinityGemMind
never checks "OnActivate" unlike your other scripts but calls "Activate", Activate won't have any effect unless the player manually activates the object first

- script TheSnap
"TR_m1_T_Rilvin_Dral"->resurrect
resurrecting a npc creates a new instance (in the game you can check with the console that the next instance id is followed by 00000001 instead of 00000000) keep in mind the original instance can no longer be targeted by compiled scripts

- script TheSnap
Player->cast "TR_snap", Player
you can't force the player to cast a spell like NPCs or objects, I think this only makes a spell ready to be cast by the player simulating spell selection in the spells list, but player still needs to be in cast pose and click to cast, and if they select another spell and they don't know that one it's gone

- script TR_m2_Endgame
If ("TR_m1_T_Rilvin_Dral"->OnDeath  ==1)
OnActivate and OnDeath events can only be checked by one script, it's good practice to only use them in the NPC's local script