Steelgonads Quest Showcase

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Steelgonads's picture
Steelgonads
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Hello all. This is my first quest for TR, but hopefully not the last :)

I've tried to find bugs in this quest by testing actions done in different orders, but I feel like it needs some serious reviewing before i can say it's ready.

Synopsis:

- A trader in Old Ebonheart wants you to do some treasure hunting for her, based on rumors she has heard. She will pay you well, if the hunt yelds a good artifact. The rumors lead you to find a fisherman in Necrom, the city of the dead.

 

Notes:

- 1 new NPC ("Vedave Hleray")

- 2 new instances of creatures ("TR_m2_dreugh")

- 1 new container ("TR_m2_drowned_corpse")

- 1 new weapon ("TR_w_akaviri_nodachi")

- 1 new book ("TR_m2_bk_ClagiusSecunia"

- 2 new conversation topics ("Vedave Hleray", "treasure hunt")

- 1 altered conversation topic ("Necrom")

- 1 altered Greeting ("Greetings 5")

- 1 topic added to all Necrom inhabitants ("Vedave Hleray")

- 2 topics added to Anjzhirra in Old Ebonheart ("Vedave Hleray", "treasure hunt")

- 3 new item/creature scripts ("TR_m2_script_akaviri_nodachi","TR_m2_script_drowned_corpse","TR_m2_script_dreugh") - These scripts prevent these items and creatures to be enabled before getting the location of the treasure from Vedave. It would be too easy to just find it on the ocean floor skipping the whole quest.

- 1 new quest with journal entries ("TR_m3_EasternTreasure")

 

Walkthrough:

- Talk to Anjzhirra in Old Ebonheart, she will mention a "treasure hunt".

- Tell her you are interested. She will tell you of a fisherman named Vedave Hleray in Necrom. If you ask about Necrom, she will mark it on your map.

- Travel to Necrom. Any non-ordinator will have the "Vedave Hleray" topic available. Mention it and they will direct you to the Temple Hostel in the SE corner of town.

- Talk to the innkeeper of the Temple Hostel, Duldres Herendal. He has the Vedave Hleray topic too and will give you directions to Vedave. This step can be taken directly after Anjzhirra gives you the quest. No need to ask around town.

- Find Vedave in his secluded bay (I chose one that is hard to reach on foot, even though it's just behind the mountain E/SE of Necrom.

- Talk to Vedave about "treasure hunt". This step can be taken after Anjzhirra gives you the quest, skipping all the steps in Necrom.

- He will give you information for 50 gold or 10 pieces of Ornada meat.

- After you pay, he tells you a story of something he saw on the ocean floor. This enables both the items and the creatures.

- Swim to the underwater arch he mentions, kill the two Dreugh (strong ones)

- Pick up the sword and your journal will advance. You can also pick up the book in the drowned corpse that explains the backstory of the corpse and sword (i hope i was canon enough)

- Travel back to Anjzhirra with the sword and by mentioning "treasure hunt" you will be given the choice of selling the weapon for 3000 gold (much higher than its market value, thus encouraging sale to Anjzhirra) or keeping it. This changes Anjzhirra mood towards you.

- End of quest.

 

Alternative Walkthrough

- Find Vedave in his secluded bay, without talking to Anjzhirra.

- Talk to Vedave about "treasure hunt".

- He will give you information for 50 gold or 10 pieces of Ornada meat.

- After you pay, he tells you a story of something he saw on the ocean floor. This enables both the items and the creatures.

- Swim to the underwater arch he mentions, kill the two Dreugh (strong ones)

- Pick up the sword and your journal will advance, but this time to an alternative ending of the quest, since you are unaware that Anjzhirra is looking for this item.

- End of quest.

 

Well, I'm looking forward for your reviews

AttachmentSizeDate
Binary Data EasternTreasure.ESP26.61 KB2016-01-22 00:54
Image icon Anjzhirra444.56 KB2016-01-22 00:59
Image icon Anjzhirra's shop location742.57 KB2016-01-22 00:59
Image icon Drowned corpse and the weapon239.68 KB2016-01-22 00:59
Image icon Duldres the Innkeeper503.53 KB2016-01-22 00:59
Image icon Temple Hostel in Necrom569.01 KB2016-01-22 00:59
Image icon Vedave Hleray the fisherman349.25 KB2016-01-22 00:59
Templar Tribe's picture
Templar Tribe
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Wow, this looks really awesome, and quest making like this is seriosuly something TR needs right now! I'll check it out and an actual reviewer will do a full look-over of it as well! Best of luck!

fufufu's picture
fufufu
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Hey, I'm not a TR developer or anything, but I played this quest and enjoyed it!

 

I thought the dialogue could use some formatting and editting, and aside from that I just had a few comments/thoughts.

 

I think it's very 'un-Morrowind' to disable the items before the quest starts. I strongly feel that it would be better to keep the items there, even if some players might stumble across them randomly (which is a very slim chance, anyway) and miss the quest. Better yet, you could write in dialogue and journal entries to account for this happening. I think it would great if players could start the quest without first talking to Anjzhirra simply by stumbling upon the sword or the fisherman while exploring.

 

Speaking of Anjzhirra, I thought it was odd that a merchant in Old Ebonheart would have heard about what a virtually unknown fisherman all the way in Necrom was doing. It might make more sense if the quest started in Necrom. Then, after the player found the sword, they could be told that someone in Old Ebonheart might be interested in it due to its ties to Imperial history.

 

Another small thing: I felt like the Inkeeper's directions were almost too specific. I wouldn't have expected him to know exactly where Vedave's fishing hole is, beyond that it's on a secluded bay somewhere to the east of Necrom. This might be a matter of preference, though.

 

Anyway, beyond these minor things I really liked the quest and I hope it ends up being included in Tamriel Rebuilt! Good luck with your showcase!

Steelgonads's picture
Steelgonads
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Hey, thanks for the feedback!

As for your points:

- Yes, I agree it is a bit "un-Morrowindy" to disable stuf (and oh, did it take me quite some time to figure out how to do it) but I was worried about leaving a powerful weapon and 2 strong creatures out in the open like that. I did leave a second entry point for the quest. If you bump into the fisherman on your own, you can start it there. On the other hand, the chance of swimming down there on your own really is slim, but what if you have played the quest in a previous playthrough?

- Totally agree. I thought it was probably the weakest plot point was how Anjzhirra sends you across the continent for a rumor. I think this is because of how i planned the quest. I started by finding a trader with a suggestive shop name ("Rare goods") and only after that did I decide on what the item would be and its backstory. Being Akavirian, I'd want it on the East coast. I suppose it would be a good idea to change the start of the quest.

- This one I'm going to disagree. He works in a Hostel right next to that bay. He has fishermen coming in and talk about their lives everyday. I wouldn't be surprised if he knew the layout of the shore right next to his establishment. And I always hated when vanilla Morrowind gave me vague or even wrong directions :)

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fufufu
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Ah! I'm glad that you can get the quest just by talking to the fisherman, I didn't realize that.

 

It's true that players who know about the location of that sword would be able to beeline for it as soon as they start a new game, but that sort of thing happens in vanilla Morrowind also. Just a few examples are the Sword of White Woe, which is sitting in a guard tower in Balmora, the Mentor's Ring which is located in an easy ancestral tomb right by Seyda Neen, and the Vassir-Didanat ebony mine, where the player is awarded a daedric item simply for walking inside. These items can unbalance the game, yes, but I believe that the thrill of knowing that you can stumble across a powerful item anywhere is part of what makes Morrowind great.

 

And as for the directions thing, fair enough :). It makes sense when you put it that way. 

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Steelgonads
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Ah yes, the Sword of White Woe is a pretty good example :) I remember the first time i found it I thought "this thing has been sitting in Balmora this whole time?"

 

I was looking around for a better start for the quest and I realized there is a Archealogical Society in Helnim. I checked the NPCs there and they don't have quests yet. It would seem like the perfect place to start it off.

Steelgonads's picture
Steelgonads
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So, is it worth to improve this, or should i give up? I'm not sure how these showcases are supposed to work. Am I to wait for someone in specific to review it, or must I do something else?

fufufu's picture
fufufu
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I think you are supposed to wait for  someone specific to review the quest. I'm not sure exactly who is in charge of that, though. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to improve the quest if you feel that you can. Definitely don't give up. I've seen showcases take some time to be reviewed, but it will happen eventually. Hopefully somebody will give you an official answer soon.

Templar Tribe's picture
Templar Tribe
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I will make sure a reviewer takes a look at this right away, sorry for the dely steelgonads. Just been a bit turbulent with getting the new site all prepared and such! Bear with us!

Not's picture
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I'm going to be taking a thorough look at this either later tonight or tomorrow so don't go anywhere. I've heard great things about this showcase from multiple sources over IRC and I definitely wanna see how this turned out :)

Not another memory

Not's picture
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A little later than I expected, sorry about that. Anyway, I'd like to comment on a few things involving this quest. First off, the dialogue is good, but there are some places where certain dialogue lines need to be added. For example, when I go to Necrom and ask around for the NPC Vedave Hleray, I'm directed to the Temple Hostel. Which is great, it's part of the quest. However, when I ask for Vedave Hleray there, if I don't talk to the right NPC, they'll tell me to check the Temple Hostel....when I'm already in there. An additional line could be added to speak with the right NPC.

Next, while not a big deal really, Ordinators do have the dialogue topic for Vedave Hleray and while not really much of an issue, I gather that wasn't intentional. Also, when talking to Anjhzhirra, the first thing she tells me is "Thirsty for adventure yet, Outlander? Anjzhira still needs help with that treasure hunt." when I've never talked to her before this. Also, Vedave Hleray himself will constantly ask you whether you've talked to him or not, whether you've given him meat or gold or already talked and have your journal updated, he will always ask you if you're there for a treasure hunt. That needs to be fixed. Also, there's a bug in which you can give him the gold he asks for and if you exit out and talk to him again, he'll still ask you for gold or meat again and your journal will be updated again. Furthermore, when you go and get the treasure, he'll still ask you if you're there for a treasure hunt, again, that needs to be fixed as well.

Next, I'd like to talk about the drowned corpse journal. Generally we like to stay away from controversial topics such as akavir since we don't really know much about it. Also, not that you'd know this, but if we do decide to make a journal entry like that, we discuss it first (usually in IRC) to make sure that everyone agrees on it. Not a big deal, but figured I'd mention it. 
Usually we don't really care what is written in journals but in this case I'd get the okay from others first. Also, for someone that knows death is coming, he's unusually calm and collected and I think that could be changed a bit, but I guess that's more a stylistic choice.

Okay, moving on. I have played this quest extensively and I'm impressed with the number of ways that the quest can play out and how much detail you put into it. The dialogue for each character is really well done. The shop keeper in particular (not even going to pretend to spell that name right) is spot on and fits with the general feel of Morrowind.

Your use of scripts was pretty good as well. While rather simple scripts, you demonstrated an understanding of them as well as naming protocols with TR. Furthermore, you made sure that you can decline the quest and accept it later and have it play out in a few different ways. The quest itself could use some touching up with the issues I listed above and that one bug does need to be squashed before we can input this into TR, however you've demonstrated great understanding in the workings of the quest, it plays out quite nicely and the mod itself seems to be clean. Most of the errors I've seen are pretty simple and a great way to improve yourself is to continue working on quests and claims. Therefore, user promoted for Quests/AI.

If you have any questions, you can post them here in your showcase thread, PM me or ask in the IRC Chat Room. Also, should you want to create another showcase for exteriors or quests, use this same thread.

Congratulations and welcome to the team! :D

Not another memory

Rot's picture
Rot
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Have to agree with fufufu on the enabling/disabling part. This sort of thing is sometimes necessary, usually when the alternative is too complex + there is a possibility for it to make sense (results of an event that just happened, or a roadblock is cleared), but in general one should avoid making things simply appear on a spot the PC could have visited before, for the obvious reason that they shouldn't return someplace for things that (ingame) were supposed to have always been there. Here in particular it takes swimming near that spot to get to the NPC, and it isn't really hard to shot-circuit the quest if the weapon is grabbed first (using either a Finished journal entry or, if you want to avoid making it unnatural with a journal entry out of the blue, just using a global variable is more discreet)

Not already pointed out most issues -- here are some more technical details which, if your quest is as I assume meant to be merged into TR, I suggest you fix before moving onto other claims (just to clear the broad lines, mind - this doesn't constitute an exhaustive review!)

- Greeting "Thirsty for adventure yet, outlander? %Name still needs help with a treasure hunt." > you can't generally rely on TalkedToPC to denote that a greeting has already beeen given, at least not when it's in Greeting 5 or under. Here I first spoke to Anjzhirra while sick, so I never got her first greeting. Not very important in this case, but good to keep in mind.

- Dialogue in general: in some cases where you address the PC with %PCName or otherwise, such as "What is wrong outlander?" "I enjoy doing business with you %PCName", a comma is expected before it (not sure if there's a basis for this in grammar or just a stylistic rule) - eg here: "I enjoy doing business with you, %PCName". (aside on Anjzhirra's dialogue: I like, but is the sorta slavic omission of articles "the" consistent? doesn't necessarily have to be, and khajiit speech patterns clash with general dialogue anyway so I could just be getting the wrong impression)

- topic "Vedave Hleray": topics like these with only general conditions (like location) often need the "Not local Nolore = 0" condition (eg you don't want Ordinators to have it, nor the special quest NPC TR_m2_Vorith). Also often needed, a Disposition condition (even though it's easy to game, NPCs with very low disposition shouldn't be helpful - you can add an alternative). A "Not Cell" condition is needed for the temple hostel.

- topic "Vedave Hleray": TR_m3_anjzhirra's entry on this topic still tells you to go see him after the quest.

- TR_m2_Vedave_Hleray keeps greeting with 'You seem to have found... treasure hunt, would you?' even after finishing things with him.

- TR_w_akaviri_nodachi: this works fine, but it's good practice in TR to give the PC unscripted items when they might want to keep them (because having a lot of scripted items running can slow things down), the solution being to have duplicates, a scripted and unscripted version (see script "TR_m3_q_14_staff_script" for example)

- your plugin is dependent on TR_Mainland.esm - not your fault, and the .esp version isn't around at the moment - but since this creates issues (esp with ordering entries) when merging, claims should always be based on the .esp version of Mainland.

- IDs for quest-specific objects and scripts will need to be named after the usual pattern ( _mX_qX ) so as to easily identify what they're for, but a quest claim might be needed for this first?

Also I forgot to say that it's great to see more cross-region quests, those being the main vector for exploration in the game. And welcome!

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Steelgonads
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Thanks for the promotion and the massive feedback! I'm a bit overwhelmed, so let me try and make a list of what I have to change and you can confirm it:

By Not:

  • Add Temple Hostel location specific dialogue for "Vedave Hleray" topic.
  • Remove "Vedave Hleray" topic from Ordinators in Necrom.
  • Solve the issue with Anjzhirra's greetings. Don't rely on TalkedToPC for this. Maybe use a global variable or the Journal progression.
  • Solve the issue with Vedave Hleray always asking if the PC is there for a treasure hunt.
  • Bug where Vedave asks for gold or meat again. I need clarification on what "if you exit out" means, because I can't seem to reproduce this bug myself.
  • Drowned corpse journal. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do here. Are you saying I must scrap the journal? It's the only explanation for the presence of the corpse and the sword. I tried to be lore consistent without giving anything really new that can clash with future lore updates. The battle did exist and the Emperor did die in it, as it is told in Disaster at Ionith. This is just the journal of a mid rank officer in that army that managed to escape the carnage.

By Rot:

  • Remove the initial disabling of the sword and corpse and short circuit the quest as finished. Is it normal to allow the quest to start anyway, as long as you have the sword in your inventory?
  • Add a comma before PCName.
  • Anjzhirra's speech pattern is based on how her race usually speaks in the Elder Scrolls. They tend to omit the articles. Should I make her sound normal?
  • Add disposition condition to all the topics. Can't have people who hate you, help you.
  • Fix Anjzhirra still talking about Vedave after quest is done
  • When deciding to sell the nodachi or keep it, change the item for a non-scripted one for performance reasons.
  • Naming of things. To be honest I didn't know what I was doing with the namings. I saw that Anjzhirra had that prefix and just winged it from there. I noticed in Necrom instead of "m3" things had "m2", so I changed accordingly, but I was never really sure it was done that way.

Extra questions:

- fufufu suggested that It didn't make much sense for Anjzhirra to send you on such a quest. Seems like too far away and unrealistic that she would know of a rumor so far away. I was wondering if it would be okay to change the quest giver to someone at the Imperial Archealogical Society. It is about history after all.

- What happened to the IRC channel address that used to be in the main forum page? I use a browser client, so I didn't save it.

 

Rot's picture
Rot
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Anjzhirra's speech pattern is based on how her race usually speaks in the Elder Scrolls. They tend to omit the articles. Should I make her sound normal?

IIRC she sometimes does but a couple times doesn’t (omit) – but then again khajiits in general also sometimes do or don’t, pretty variable – just pointed it out in case it was a slip

When deciding to sell the nodachi or keep it, change the item for a non-scripted one for performance reasons.

That’s usually rather done by having the item script do this itself – eg in this case a scripted nodachi on the seafloor, which when activated gives the PC a non-scripted one. Probably more elegant than switching it around in dialogue (unequips...), plus one might never go and report to her in order to keep it.

 Naming of things. To be honest I didn't know what I was doing with the namings. I saw that Anjzhirra had that prefix and just winged it from there. I noticed in Necrom instead of "m3" things had "m2", so I changed accordingly, but I was never really sure it was done that way.

Close enough, usually the m-number comes from the region the quest starts in and stays consistent and there’s also a q+number so that all objects related to the quest start with the same m°_q°. The number was previously generated automatically by the claims browser, but for now naming conventions are still being discussed,

 

Re: khajiit merchant sending you to a fisherman half the country away on hearsay, I’m personally not too bothered, since the dialogue made it clear that it was some sort of shady info she got from a tavern network or somesuch – what could be more of a stretch is that it’d have been reported from Necrom, being a holy city and all that, less likely to have agents who’d work with khajiits there, but indirectly and through to OE… it’d be implausible more than impossible.

IRC is still linked from the old forums: