Pope John Paul II thread.

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Post by sirwootalot123 »

I'm atheist, and I'm touched by his death. He was polish, he revolutionized the catholic church, he went to cuba. what's not to love about the guy?
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Post by Vernon »

sirwootalot123 wrote:I'm atheist, and I'm touched by his death.
I dislike the Catholic church greatly, but I was reduced to uncontrollable sobbing when he passed away. My girlfriend had to throw a glass of iced water at me to shake me out of it. :oops: I admired John Paul II greatly - he held onto his beliefs with a remarkable compassion and humanity. The Cardinals will certainly have a tough time finding his successor.
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Post by Indoril »

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Post by Massalinie »

Awww! Vernon cried!
I'm an athiest too, Don't beleive in God, never have probably never will (although you never know with these things). But I still think it was a sad day when he died. He shall be remembered for years to come
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Post by Hermit »

Well, I'll join the atheists posting here.

John Paul was a good representative on the oputside, but his authoritarian "vatican knows best" style of leadership inside, his stomping out of all reform attempts, his denial of layman activity and his clinging to doctrines that just aren't in tune with the societies in most major western nations (excluding the UZA) greatly damaged the church on the inside.

Also, as cardinal Ratzinger is considered the most likely candidate, I fear for the worst. Grand inquisitors becoming popes aren't a good thing in principle, especially if they're such zealots and even less tolerant towards inner-church dissent than John Paul II was.

I'd hope for a reformist to become John Paul II's successor, but I'm afraid the reformists aren't nearly strong enough for this.

As for the persona Karol Voityla, I do admire his truth to his beliefs, whcih shows a strong personality, but I have no love lost for his fanaticism, stubbornness and intolerance. Who sabotages the ecumenical movent most? The Catholic church. At least in Germany, in the US, there're so many sects that are far worse that catholics there look like bleeding-heart liberals.

Bottom line: I'm glad he passed away in a manner to keep his dignity (no yearslong coma) and that the chuch now has a chance to adress the heap of problems he leftbehind. I respected the man, but I don'T particularily like him or what he stood for. May he rest in peace, and may his successor succeed at cleaning up his mess.

And may the people of Africa, South America and Eastern Europe forgive him one day for what he has done to them with his medival dogma.
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Post by Barthelemy »

Some of you write that The John Paul II was conservative and was antireformist. Some of you probably want to legalise condoms, abortion and euthanasia. But church can't be change in that way because we cannot change The Holy Bible and decalogue. Doctrine of the church can't be change totally, all liberals should remember about this.

I'm conservative or radical, there are few things that can't be change ever.
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Post by Massalinie »

condoms, abortion etc ARE legal, the church just doesnt allow them. if you are Roman Catholic you cannot use/have them. But christians can and so can athiests etc, so its not that we want to legalise it. Also the Bible doesnt specifically say : "Thou shalt not use condoms" and it is still debatable as to when life oficially begins, some people would argue that having an abortion does not count as "taking life"
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Post by Anonymous »

i hope the new pope lasts longer then pope john paul the first
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Pope John Paul II thread

Post by der gottlose »

He will be missed at my house. Although, I agree about the abortion/condoms thing.

But that's none of my business.

*sheds a tear*
Last edited by der gottlose on Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CommonsNat »

Shh.. This is reserved for comments on the pope. Your tiny text aren't welcome.
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Post by Hermit »

Some of you write that The John Paul II was conservative and was antireformist. Some of you probably want to legalise condoms, abortion and euthanasia. But church can't be change in that way because we cannot change The Holy Bible and decalogue.
I'd like to see where the bible explicitly bans contraceptives (and spare me the implicit passages, please, I want to hear something along the lines of "thou shalt not enact contraception, or hell will be upon you for all eternity". As for abortion and euthanasia, well, I don't need to want to have it legal, the former and the latter are already in the enlightened place where I live, in a properly reglemented fashion.
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Post by Massalinie »

yes hermit that is basically what i already said! anyway yes. This is off topic as stated above. Discuss the pope people.
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Post by Hermit »

The news just said there're three very likely candidates. Among them cardinal Josef Ratzinger, head of the organisation which previously was known as Inquisition.
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Post by Indoril »

Massalinie wrote:condoms, abortion etc ARE legal, the church just doesnt allow them. if you are Roman Catholic you cannot use/have them. But christians can and so can athiests etc, so its not that we want to legalise it. Also the Bible doesnt specifically say : "Thou shalt not use condoms" and it is still debatable as to when life oficially begins, some people would argue that having an abortion does not count as "taking life"
Forgive me, but it seems one of your sentances or two devided the Catholic Church from other Christians. Sorry. Just had to point that out because I dissagree.
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Post by Seran »

hermit wrote: I'd like to see where the bible explicitly bans contraceptives (and spare me the implicit passages, please, I want to hear something along the lines of "thou shalt not enact contraception, or hell will be upon you for all eternity". As for abortion and euthanasia, well, I don't need to want to have it legal, the former and the latter are already in the enlightened place where I live, in a properly reglemented fashion.
HAHAHAHAH..
Thanks hermit. Made my day.
I suddenly had a flash of some scholar saying eureka on that one.
And quite good argument there.
The bibal is maybe the most diverse and subjective works ever writen.
But I don't want to make this a political argument.

Johannes Paul II was a great man for sure.
Even though I disagree whit most of his views.
As whit religius leaders I often come to do that.
One also come to expect a sertain obligation towards political issues that this man sertainly followed.
This is a man I personally belive that will be remembered trought history that brought the chatolic church back from a dim prospect.
Being master of the gesture I belive he brought a sertain hope to ahteist about the church role and place in the modern world.
Even though one often see they're views as deprimental.
One can't really expect others to not have a faith.
As ppl can't deny me my right to not have one.

My hope is that the new brige builder realise this.
And a futher mutual respect can endure.
The tradisions of the chatolic church is forever linked to human history.
And I have great respect for it's achivements.

Pont Max Johannes Paul the seconds, his 26th and last have come to an end.
We look on whit great remorse of this loss, and happiness that his suffering have come to an end.
And it's whit great joy we look back on his life.
May the next Pontefix Maximus reach Karol to the knees.
And may he join the wonds of old.
If you don't bother with your past history. How do you know where your currently at? It's past what makes us who we are. And who we will be. Ignoring that, is ignoring who we are and where we're going.
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Post by Sload »

Illegalizing condoms would be the stupidest thing anyone could do. They are an important safeguard because not all of us are so "pure" that we don't want to do what comes naturally to us.

But Pope John Paul II was pretty cool. Yahoo got his age wrong though, that made me laugh.
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Post by Eraser »

There's nothing "wrong" "ammoral" or "impure" about sex in any way. It never was until the catholic church came along and started to associate anything they personally didn't like with "satan" and hell.

and besides whats better? being devout and having a pandemic of syphilis(sp?) HIV/AIDS, VD, herpes, everything else in the book and an out of control birthrate? or contraceptives and protection? I'd go with the latter. The church seriously needs to reform to modern times, it is an entirely different world than 400-1600 AD(its even an entirely different world than 1950!) and their doctrines need updating to reflect that.
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Post by Massalinie »

Yeh i agree with you, but can i remind you that this is meant to be a thread on the pope, and it has gone on to contraception..... im not complaining. There isnt much more to say about the pope really, but some people might complain
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Post by Vyvara Araneae »

As long as the conversation remains on a civil level, I don't think there is much of a problem with the slight tangent here. The late Pope did have some strong views regarding contraception use (among other things) and it is only natural that such views would be mentioned here. :)

I would like to thank you, Massie, for reminding people that it is important to keep on topic within a thread to avoid spam. I know you are trying to be helpful and wanted to let you know I do appreciate your intent. :)

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Post by Thane »

I dislike the Catholic Church greatly for many reasons, but I can't deny that Pope John Paul was a good guy. I hope the next pope can fill his shoes.
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Post by Anonymous »

I dont have much to say about the pope. good or bad. if you grade his worth on his "good deeds" you have to take into account that he had power and resources to pull of "great works". to me good deeds arent anything special. we should all strive to do what is right, it shouldnt be strange or amazing when somthing good is done. Good is what SHOULD be done. thats pretty much what good means. but if you rate his worth on how "holy" he was then i dont see how holy he really was. perhaps im uneducated but i dont see how one person is "holyer" than the next guy. we are all human we all make mistakes we all do some "good". God is the only one who is holy, we just choose to follow him or not. he was a leader, but that doent make him holier it simply means that he has more responsibility in the church. i pursonaly detest religion. it is the cause of war, and hate, and legalism. i simply take the Bible as 100% true and it is the only real foundation for truth. church is not religion, God is not religion,praying is not religion,fellowship with other people is not religion, truth is not religion. religion is asking a man no more different than yourself for a blessing as if that man has power to do so. religion is praying to a statue of mary thinking it will protect you. religion is not supported by the Bible. Dont believe me? read it sometime. the Pope was a Man. he did good and bad like the rest of us. He died like we all will someday. thats all i can really say.
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Post by Vyvara Araneae »

This is the final reminder to keep this discussion on a civil level. This is a thread about the late Pope and not the Catholic Church or religion. Please be sure that future content (whether positive or negative) reflects this. In other words, rhetoric regarding religion (specific or general) is not appropriate here.

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Post by Hermit »

Tec, try to write using paragraphs and such, makes your posts much easier to read.
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Post by Hermit »

And today, holy FUCKING SHIT, a grand inquitisor has been elected new pontiff. Oh, the joy. Well, at least, Ratzinger will further weaken the church, and that's not nescessarily a bad thing.
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Post by Timito »

hermit wrote:And today, holy FUCKING SHIT, a grand inquitisor has been elected new pontiff. Oh, the joy. Well, at least, Ratzinger will further weaken the church, and that's not nescessarily a bad thing.
You don't like him in person, or the katholic church? He's German so that's a good thing for all German katholics.
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Post by Hermit »

He's the GRAND INQUISITOR, for crying out loud. He's with Opus Dei, and he's a hardline conservative that makes Voityla look like a bleeding heart liberal reform cleric!

No way this is good for anyone, especially Germany's catholics.
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Post by Starcrunch »

Well, it is pretty cool that he's been called God's Rottweiler (I'm pretty sure none of us will ever get such a cool tag)...and, yes, he held a position that has a very nasty history (IIRC, its formal title is more along the lines of Office of Doctrine and Faith or something like that). He was probably the worst choice I could imagine...and my boss (who is a German Catholic) agrees.

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Post by Vernon »

Yes I am happy with the new choice of pope, because it will likely further diminish the church's influence. You can clearly see how out-of-touch these cardinals are now. Better informed, they might have realised that a more liberal papacy would be celebrated by rejecting archaic views on contraception, abortion and female clergy. Well that's me happy.

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Post by Eraser »

So much for the world of politics being a pendulumn, we were due for a swing back towards the left. but the laws of physics have changed, the world just keeps swinging further to the right!
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Post by CommonsNat »

Getting off topic aren't we? Why don't we go ahead and lock this post, since we're no longer talking about John Paul II.
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Post by Vernon »

Someone will just start a new thread for it anyway. Let the liberals have a chuckle, will you?

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Post by CommonsNat »

That's kind of what I wanted, a new thread for what they're discussing now... So they can chuckle there.
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Post by Anonymous »

He was a great man i paid total respect to him
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Post by Massalinie »

I dont think its off topic at all, because this is still pope related, just change the title to "Popes" and then it wont be off topic :wink:
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Post by Vernon »

<>
Last edited by Vernon on Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Massalinie »

I certainly hope that wasn't directed at me
ese i might have to knock your blcok off Vernon, and trust me, I can do that!
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Post by Vegor »

Uhum. Please keep it civil. How rude you're being in such a topic.

Anyway, the new pope might lower christianity's popularity but in the process ruining many people's lifes. I'm pretty sure the Christian Church will remain a conservative religion until it's end, which is another step closer after today.
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Post by Vyvara Araneae »

Thank you, Vegor for the reminder to keep things on a civil level. Unfortunately, I administered the "final warning" a while ago, prior to today's activities.

Being a woman of my word, I must now lock this thread.
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