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Talin_Trollbane
Member
28 Dec 2003

Location: Sweden / Sverige

She´s almost done now, for Vvardenfell that is, what about the mainland?

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=47660

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Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:53 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Negrodomous
Member
09 Sep 2004

Location: Cheifland, FL

got a screenshot?
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Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:54 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Katoth
Member
03 Nov 2003

Location: The Frozen North

What is this? A mod for putting children in the game?
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Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:11 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Hermit
Developer Emeritus
17 Oct 2003

Location: The North German plains

Yes. One of our oldest and most discussed boltons.

The main problem we had with this was that a lot of people said "children don't add that much to Morrowind, why bother making all the new models, voices, ect?" Well, obviously, Emma did bother. I guess we should make this into a TR bolton.

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Post Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




It is supposed to add some life in the game: where have you seen a place without children ? Well it could also give a new unforgiveable crime of "child murder" if you kill one... and maybe some quest.

Well i like the idea
Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:19 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
Vegor
Developer Emeritus
07 Mar 2004

Location: No

We really have decided no on this for thousands of reason. Please don't start this discussion again.

Additionally, we shouldn't make every mod that's nice a bolt-on. People can search and find it themselves.
Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:22 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Graff
Developer Emeritus
23 Jun 2004

Location: Sheffield, UK. Home of steel and, er, me.

Quote:
It is supposed to add some life in the game: where have you seen a place without children ? Well it could also give a new unforgiveable crime of "child murder" if you kill one... and maybe some quest.


Actually, Emma found a way around, by having the NPCs teleport when they are attacked. But it is a moot point, we couldn't agree.

Personally, I'd like to do a bolt-on that adds Children to the TR maps, but I doubt I'd finish it.

Perhaps we should do a "TR-Recommends" list of Mods that add atmosphere to Vvardenfell?

Graff.

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Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:32 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Lord_Gallant
Developer Emeritus
29 Aug 2003

Location: Probably Valenwood, if not, try Skyrim.

Yes all children in Tamriel are naturally blessed with teleportative powers that evolved specifically to avoid combat with deranged child-killing Nerevarines....

That is not a "work around", that is a "charge straight through and ignore the grotesque lore violations".

Since it is just a bolt-on, I really don't care though. No point in arguing about an optional feature.

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Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Graff
Developer Emeritus
23 Jun 2004

Location: Sheffield, UK. Home of steel and, er, me.

Well, I'd rather see someone take the care to make it impossible to attack Children NPCs then for someone sick person to derive pleasure from indulging in child-killing fantasies, game or not.

Graff.

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Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:03 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Stumpytheguar
Member
27 Jun 2004

Location: Irrelevant

Graff wrote:
Well, I'd rather see someone take the care to make it impossible to attack Children NPCs then for someone sick person to derive pleasure from indulging in child-killing fantasies, game or not.

Graff.


You know, Graff... I thought I'd liked you before.

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Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:41 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Graff
Developer Emeritus
23 Jun 2004

Location: Sheffield, UK. Home of steel and, er, me.

I know it's an illogical viewpoint, but I'm sure anybody who has young relatives or kids of their own has a similar viewpoint. I'm sorry you feel that way, Stumpy, but I've got my beliefs and morals, and I'm sure you've got own.

Graff.

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Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:12 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Dexter
Developer Emeritus
04 Jun 2004

Location: Baltimore, MD

If we do use this as a bolt-on, I suggest we remove the teleportation nonsense. If the argument for it is that you are trying to preserve the morality of the game, I feel that is a load of bullshit. It's fine to run around killing all sorts of adults, ranging from dancers to shackled slaves, but oh dear no, we can't kill children.
This is a risky issue, as lots of people will have a strong stance on it, but taking measures to pacify those people will compromise the integrity of Tamriel Rebuilt.
WE DO NOT COMPROMISE THE INTEGRITY OF TAMRIEL REBUILT
Either we make kids just as killable as everyone else, or we don't include them.

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Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




just make them killable, Have it where the fine is higher then normal,Or not a fine but death or something....
Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:57 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
Graff
Developer Emeritus
23 Jun 2004

Location: Sheffield, UK. Home of steel and, er, me.

Do what you want, I can't say the idea sits comfortably with me, but at the end of the day, if people want to make them killable, with extra gore or whatever, they're going to do it. It's not like anything anyone says can stop that.

Graff.

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Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:58 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Assassinace
Developer
21 Aug 2003

Location: Dreamland

Regardless BOLT ON. If someone wants to go through and add them to the mainland I don't see any reason not to have it as a TR bolt on. That being said I'm not going to bother adding them to the mainland. If someone does post and if they don't then moot point.
Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:22 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




Ooops !
I am afraid i launched kinda troll, i'm sorry.

To be clear, i was just thinking that a "child killer" would be a specially hatred character without the possibility to "buy" his life by paying a fine so he should be chased to death.

About morality, Arena had whores whose's answers depended on your charisma (you'r too ugly,dark elf!) and your sex (if you were a female character:usually i deal with men but business is business)

They have been removed in Daggerfall's streets (but not in Dibella's temples)(TS2)and i didn't see any in Morrowind (TS3)

Also, in Daggerfall, a werewolf needed to kill innocent people to recover his hits points yes, when you were affected by lycantropy, you began by transforming yourself more and more often and with more and more difficulties to recover you original appareance.Then, your hits points dropped to four and you were seeing the message:"you feel thirsty on innocent blood" or something like that.So you needed to kill a passer-by, not a monster or a guard.And the more accessible cure for lycantropy implied: guess what ? Sacrifying a child ! (there was another way to cure...)

A friend of mine said it was perfect for him because he played an assasin.

But well, i think the point is:it's way too complicated to add a new "child layer" in TR and it has been discussed before.
And finally, we don't have enough modders to deal with.

So i won't post my "butterflies bolt-on suggestion" Wink






Last edited by Anonymous on Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:17 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




Merenenn wrote:
"child layer"


At least Jacko's Texture would be easy to do. One nice uniform colour.

I once did make a mod with smaller people. Its all well and good but didnt actually add that much to the game. Children would be nice in that you could say 'oh theres children' but after a while it wears off.
Post Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:36 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
Thane

30 Mar 2005

Location: Vivec, Telvanni Canton

You should be able to kill the children. It would allow more Temple/Cult quests where you have to slay child-killers. Of course it could also lead to some very, very warped things.
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Post Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:44 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




What's the problem with killing children? I'm sure we've all gone on rampages and tried to kill everyone in the game, just for walking at you funny. They're just as innocent as children. Well actually they're probably not because they're adults, but children are just people who haven't had time to be evil. We're all bags of meat at the end of the day, we die with glassy eyes and someone cries. Then we're forgotten, and go all rotten.
Post Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:11 am             Reply with quote                   up  
Xui'al
Developer Emeritus
29 Mar 2005

Location: Wastelands of Canada.

You are a true optimist, Prisilla. Why doesn't someone just lock this thread? Is the answer "NO" not clear enough?
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Post Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:40 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Stumpytheguar
Member
27 Jun 2004

Location: Irrelevant

There's nothing wrong with killing kids in video games. And just so Graff knows, not only do I have six siblings, four of which are younger than me, I also have a nephew.

My views on video game violence do not affect my real life morals. Killing real kids is wrong. Using an input device such as a keyboard or mouse to roll random numbers that will affect a value directly associated to an animation labeled 'm_dun_child_death' and playing the sound file labeled 'M_dun_child_groan.mp3' connected to it does not phaze me at all. I could just as easily be playing 'Nemo's undersea adventure' and see an animation of a bubble escaping from a shell and hear a musical note - but you wouldn't have any moral inhibitions towards that, would you?

There are no lines to be drawn here. You're bringing more argument to this than it needs.

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Post Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:23 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Stumpytheguar
Member
27 Jun 2004

Location: Irrelevant

Not that I'm altogether too fond of people who bump posts, but is nobody going to argue here? I was quite looking fowards to seeing someone try to refute that.
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Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:16 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



You sociopathic loser! How can you say things like that? Only sick minded people enjoy watching little children die, even if it is some stupid code. No way is anyone ever going to get to kill children while I around!

Happy?

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:27 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
DarkEclipse
Member
31 May 2005

Location: Southern California

Isn't killing children the same as killing adults? Except for the fact that it's completely wrong...
Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:55 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Graff
Developer Emeritus
23 Jun 2004

Location: Sheffield, UK. Home of steel and, er, me.

I wouldn't be as extreme as Sload at this moment in time, but for me at least, the difference between flesh and pixels makes no difference, the fantasy is still there for the sick people who probably end up making multiple screenshots of the deaths, I don't want to see that happen. Plus, Emma, the creator of the mod, has pretty stated that she won't support anyone who decides to make a playable children killer mod.

Graff.

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:37 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
DarkEclipse
Member
31 May 2005

Location: Southern California

So, no kids? Because if that's what you mean, I fully agree.
Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:06 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




Well of course killing children is wrong - nobody is disputing that - but then so is killing adults, and almost every game revolves around that at some point. And it's not as simple as a case of a few scripts and sound effects, there's the whole issue of the player's (perhaps sick) intent and satisfaction in killing a child, even if it is just in a game.
But again, it's really no worse than killing the innocent townsfolk in Morrowind. A player will perhaps kill one or two and then get bored and carry on with the game, to hear the new sound effects or whatever, or just as a novelty (of course, murder as novelty isn't all that commendable).
And I find the "I disagree with it because I know children" argument frankly quite ridiculous. It's just political correctness gone crazy. I know plenty of children, thank you; Jeezus, I even WAS one for a while.

Putting them in the game would be simply to make it more immersive, which I think is great. But to be honest they're going to be fairly superfluous, especially if you make them invincible. Unless you make some quests to go with them. But judging by the opinions here, it's going to be tactfully saccharine things like "rescue a helpless child from the bad men" or "Pwease find my teddy bear", which really isn't what the game is about. So it's probably best not to include it at all.
Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:02 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
kingfish
Developer Emeritus
22 Nov 2003

Location: Prague, CZ

honestly, i don't get it. why the hell do we have this "bolt on" nonsence at all?

i mean, do you know about any finished bolt ons?
are there ever gonna be some worth downloading?
is someone gonna make it, and why?

-imo, all answers are NO.

my point is: why do we waste time/resources on such futile discussion? just read trough the "bolt on" section of the forum to get an idea...

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Dexter
Developer Emeritus
04 Jun 2004

Location: Baltimore, MD

Kingfish, I love you.
He's absolutely right. The only bolt-on that comes close to being "worked on" is FEP, and I'll be the first to say that it will never get past the interiors phase.

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
DarkEclipse
Member
31 May 2005

Location: Southern California

I vote no on kids in Tamriel. It's just generally a bad idea, any way you think about it.
Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Majra
Developer Emeritus
16 Jan 2004

Location: Darvulk Haven Elsweyr

the bolt on forum is all a charade. Its a way of rejecting people nicely basically. By saying, oh... um... that wont work, but, you can always make it a bolt on its a cop out of actually hurting someones feelings for a split second. Bad ideas basically go here. Or, ideas that are not ready to be done.
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Post Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
DarkEclipse
Member
31 May 2005

Location: Southern California

If we make it a bolt-on I'm pretty sure everyone will download this and kill the poor little children.
Post Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:35 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Garriath
Developer Emeritus
26 May 2004



And we, of course, must take hold of their lives and prevent them any option of doing this. Otherwise they'll go off the deep end and start stealing little children's ice cream and raping stray dogs...

How is it our business what people do?

Anyway, yeah. This isn't a TR priority, so if someone feels the need to make a mod adding kids, they can go right ahead. If not, moan moan.
Post Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:46 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Dexter
Developer Emeritus
04 Jun 2004

Location: Baltimore, MD

Quote:
If we make it a bolt-on I'm pretty sure everyone will download this and kill the poor little children.

I would, at least. I think it would be absolutely hilarious for the first ten minutes. Then the novelty would wear off and I'd stop killing all the children, just like I stopped killing all the adults after ten minutes the first time I played.
Bolt-Ons are a sham, and this conversation has made several complete circles. It's a waste of "Top Ten Most Recent Treads" space.

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