A discussion to decide what Blacklight will be.
İt seems that the choice is between Velothi and Hlallu.
İmperial have been eliminated, redoran not evocated.
Vernon (who had the claim) is for Velothi, Dexter seems Hlallu, Nomadic against Hlallu...
Hlallu has the diversity but is common.
Velothi will be hard but original.İf we add some elements from the int meshes and maybee retexture some Hlallu...
Vernon has spoken of Velothi meshes from Walt? Lost?
Blacklight.
Moderators: Haplo, Lead Developers
If the city is big enough, it can have several districts. Isn't there an Imperial fort at Blacklight? If so, an Imperial district around it could look like a tiny common town, set a bit apart from the rest of the city.
If said rest of the city is Hlaalu, it can have been constructed around some Velothi buildings -- we have velothi temples and domes from the original game, and towers and monasteries as TR meshes. There's also the possibility to use canton buildings (not the cantons themselves, the buildings atop them), like what was done in Vos.
Velothi architecture is ancient and fit without much problems within Hlaalu, Redoran, and even Telvanni architectures. The presence of velothi temples in most Vvardenfell cities established this.
If said rest of the city is Hlaalu, it can have been constructed around some Velothi buildings -- we have velothi temples and domes from the original game, and towers and monasteries as TR meshes. There's also the possibility to use canton buildings (not the cantons themselves, the buildings atop them), like what was done in Vos.
Velothi architecture is ancient and fit without much problems within Hlaalu, Redoran, and even Telvanni architectures. The presence of velothi temples in most Vvardenfell cities established this.
Last edited by Gez on Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nomadic1
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Velothi would be great, and I'm against Hlaalu for reasons of logic and lore. The Velothi architecture set is surprisingly versatile and varied. Gez, there are: cantons, sixteen BS buildings, added TR Velothi buildings, domes, temples, walls, bridges, etc. Everything needed to make a great and unique city. And Blacklight is an ancient settlement 
Granted it is a little on the tricky side. But Blacklight would be more memorable and more consistent as a Velothi settlement IMO.
Granted it is a little on the tricky side. But Blacklight would be more memorable and more consistent as a Velothi settlement IMO.
I personaly like the hlaalu style more, i think Balmora is nicer than Ald' Rhun but thats just me...
But if lore says its velothi, than lets keep it velothi. If its unclear, i would say Hlaalu.
But if lore says its velothi, than lets keep it velothi. If its unclear, i would say Hlaalu.
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Nomadic1
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It doesn't say it is Velothi. Lore only says that it is a major city (emphasis on major), and it was the capital of House Redoran before Archmagister Venim moved it to Ald'Ruhn. Also, we are talking about Velothi (Vos, Vivec, Ald Redaynia, ancestral tomb style) and Hlaalu (Balmora, Suran) styles, not Redoran.Vholdrian wrote:I personaly like the hlaalu style more, i think Balmora is nicer than Ald' Rhun but thats just me...
But if lore says its velothi, than lets keep it velothi. If its unclear, i would say Hlaalu.
i'm not sure lore-wise, but i wouldn't like to see this done using more sets in diferent districts. maximum is let's say a velothi temple/monastery surrounded by a hlaalu city. but that may be problematic - concerning the hlaalu-temple relationship.
i guess i'd prefer velothi city, but that is a hard task...
i guess i'd prefer velothi city, but that is a hard task...
by posting useless junk on these forums you WON'T become a modder, only a spammer...
Oh sorry, you're right, i always mix those two up 
Well in that case i don't care. They're much the same (Hlaalu and Velothi), although the big city (vivec) is velothi... i would say velothi.
But you said that the redoran moved from Blacklight to Ald' Rhun? Than why has redoran style been removed from the options?
Whatever, i'm not into this ****, just sharing my thoughts :p
Well in that case i don't care. They're much the same (Hlaalu and Velothi), although the big city (vivec) is velothi... i would say velothi.
But you said that the redoran moved from Blacklight to Ald' Rhun? Than why has redoran style been removed from the options?
Whatever, i'm not into this ****, just sharing my thoughts :p
[img]http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4350/ve3flv2.jpg[/img]
People ask me to put my signature here. However, I do not want to write on my LCD screen. It's a good way to ruin a perfectly good screen. -M'aiq's little brother
People ask me to put my signature here. However, I do not want to write on my LCD screen. It's a good way to ruin a perfectly good screen. -M'aiq's little brother
Based on that, I'd propose a hodgepodge of styles.
Old City, with some ancient velothi buildings.
New City, with rich and impressive Hlaalu buildings guarded by Hlaalu watchtowers.
The Slums, wood shacks mixed with redoran houses that have been abandonned when the Redorans moved to Ald'ruhn and Blacklight was later seized by the Hlaalus. While most of the city has be redone, this part of the city is inhabited by the paupers, so nobody's willing to spend money to give them brand new housings, even if it means not all of the city follows the Hlaalu Architectural Code.
Old City, with some ancient velothi buildings.
New City, with rich and impressive Hlaalu buildings guarded by Hlaalu watchtowers.
The Slums, wood shacks mixed with redoran houses that have been abandonned when the Redorans moved to Ald'ruhn and Blacklight was later seized by the Hlaalus. While most of the city has be redone, this part of the city is inhabited by the paupers, so nobody's willing to spend money to give them brand new housings, even if it means not all of the city follows the Hlaalu Architectural Code.
I don't want to try influencing the decision all that much because I am no longer holding this claim and I am moving on to Oblivion. But I agree with Nomadic1. Velothi presents a good challenge for the modder and is a beautiful tileset, both interior and exterior. If we can get hold of WaltFT's customised meshes, all the more reason to give it a shot. Hlaalu already has the rather stunning Narsis, and Velothi seems to have been left out somewhat.
that would imo result in the same ugly mixture we have now...Gez wrote: Old City, with some ancient velothi buildings.
New City, with rich and impressive Hlaalu buildings guarded by Hlaalu watchtowers.
The Slums, wood shacks mixed with redoran houses that have been abandonned when the Redorans moved to Ald'ruhn and Blacklight was later seized by the Hlaalus. While most of the city has be redone, this part of the city is inhabited by the paupers, so nobody's willing to spend money to give them brand new housings, even if it means not all of the city follows the Hlaalu Architectural Code.
EDIT: nicely said, vernon...
EDIT 2: here is walt's set: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/download.php?id=1412
Two problems here. First, Walt is the one who I remember [url=http://forums.tamriel-rebuilt.org/viewtopic.php?p=97201]lost all work done in a HD crash[/url], so I hope the velothi meshes weren't part of that lost work.Vernon wrote:If we can get hold of WaltFT's customised meshes, all the more reason to give it a shot.
Second, and bigger problem, getting past Stalker and his moratorium.
Stalker who was faster to reply than me.
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Inferno_str1ke
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I'm against it being an Hlaalu town, mainly because it just doesn't fit, and I'm a supporter of Rodan's version anyway. But as it can't be that I say we follow his plan of making a memorable city, and do so by making a velothi city that isn't canton based, or covered in roots. We already have two velothi towns that I'm aware of, Vos and Ranyon-Ruhn, both of which have Telvanni mixed in. A straight velothi town with an imperial fort (maybe a few imp houses within the walls) at one part would look great.
M1ke
I think it'd be neat-o to see the town built out of velothi properly, and not just throwing random statics down. And I think the docks should be Hlaalu style anyway. I honestly don't think it matters that much. We definitely aren't going to be getting any new models to make this with, so we might as well use the best of what we've got.
kebra, if you can make it out of velothi, and make it well, then I say you should make it out of velothi.
kebra, if you can make it out of velothi, and make it well, then I say you should make it out of velothi.
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Kebra, we are at a stage now where we don't have to be too anal-retentive on what House it should be. I think that Hlaalu is under-represented, but then again, this is a Redoran city in lore. Also, Velothi would work perfectly well. Why don't you mess around with these tilesets, figure out which one you like the most, and decide which one you want Blacklight to be. I am all for giving you creative control of the city.
"Hail Dexter."
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You REALLY don't want me to come back.
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İ haven't make my choice.
A majority is for Velothi. The problem is the lack of meshes. But, if i can use the Veet works, it could be. Just, i fund the textures too clear but it's possible to correct.
İ agree with Haplo to prefer a well done city even if not Velothian. Depend of what we will fund.
Two harbors: one imp, on the northern bank. İn fact, i think to create, in the bay, a tower (high but not big) connected by a bridge. İsolated.
the other must be on the southern part, and a classical one.
Because of the geography of the bay, it's possible to mixt some style. İf the main is Velothi, i could create a little imp district near the bridge of the harbor and well isolated with a logical transition. İn the same idea, the normal harbor could be isolated too, and Hlallu.
İ will try to send something to explain better.
İ add that some cities like İstanbul had several districts of divers style but well seperated.(Stanbul(Ottoman), Galatta(İtalian))
A majority is for Velothi. The problem is the lack of meshes. But, if i can use the Veet works, it could be. Just, i fund the textures too clear but it's possible to correct.
İ agree with Haplo to prefer a well done city even if not Velothian. Depend of what we will fund.
Two harbors: one imp, on the northern bank. İn fact, i think to create, in the bay, a tower (high but not big) connected by a bridge. İsolated.
the other must be on the southern part, and a classical one.
Because of the geography of the bay, it's possible to mixt some style. İf the main is Velothi, i could create a little imp district near the bridge of the harbor and well isolated with a logical transition. İn the same idea, the normal harbor could be isolated too, and Hlallu.
İ will try to send something to explain better.
İ add that some cities like İstanbul had several districts of divers style but well seperated.(Stanbul(Ottoman), Galatta(İtalian))
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- Veet_Velothi.zip
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Lady Nerevar
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i think that if you do the velothi/imp mix corectly, it will surpass the original ny many, many, style points.
i say, DO NOT use veet's meshes. those things cause more problems they they solve... (judging by all the necrom scandals). it would probely be posible to retexture halu building to look like velothi....
i say, DO NOT use veet's meshes. those things cause more problems they they solve... (judging by all the necrom scandals). it would probely be posible to retexture halu building to look like velothi....
In hoc signo vinces
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"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
-PoHa!
I think if you are going to use Velothi meshes, try to create larger structures by using interior meshes, like Kingfish did in Karthor Dale, and by mushing a bunch of exterior houses together.
Also, if you are going to include an Imperial section, try to keep it similar to the forts on Vvardenfell. I think that a smallish Imperial fort with a harbor would look fantastic.
Also, if you are going to include an Imperial section, try to keep it similar to the forts on Vvardenfell. I think that a smallish Imperial fort with a harbor would look fantastic.
"Hail Dexter."
-Yinnie
You REALLY don't want me to come back.
-Yinnie
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LN, İ'm not aware about it. Can you explain or send a link(veet).
That's a peety, but maybee could we created some, i really need some simple buildings and one or two caracteristics others. İf somebody want do the meshes, i could texture them, i can exactly explain what i need.
Dexter, in KD, they is mountains, it's easy(not so much) to hide the int in the landscape, but in BL...
For the fort,i have the idea: a high tower in the bay and connect by a bridge. Some banks will run from that tower for the ships(like a star).The fort will be located in the northern-eastern part of the bay.Maybee a little partli-separated imp village can be around the fort-bridge.
İ would like giving more place to the water. The banks will be variable, from the beach to the little cliff.
To try a Velothi city,i realy need some simple meshes like the Veet ones.
That's a peety, but maybee could we created some, i really need some simple buildings and one or two caracteristics others. İf somebody want do the meshes, i could texture them, i can exactly explain what i need.
Dexter, in KD, they is mountains, it's easy(not so much) to hide the int in the landscape, but in BL...
For the fort,i have the idea: a high tower in the bay and connect by a bridge. Some banks will run from that tower for the ships(like a star).The fort will be located in the northern-eastern part of the bay.Maybee a little partli-separated imp village can be around the fort-bridge.
İ would like giving more place to the water. The banks will be variable, from the beach to the little cliff.
To try a Velothi city,i realy need some simple meshes like the Veet ones.
Last edited by kebra on Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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El Scumbago
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Yes, I know of the Moratorium, but just go to the ex-summit, now-planet ES site and do a search for 'modder resources'. Then, spot those that are about architecture.
Yes, most are lore wise. I promise that if you haven't seen them yet, you will be amazed.
And that wouldn't mean you have to call back the moratorium.
At least not until we get to detailing Blacklight.
Yes, most are lore wise. I promise that if you haven't seen them yet, you will be amazed.
And that wouldn't mean you have to call back the moratorium.
At least not until we get to detailing Blacklight.
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Lady Nerevar
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meh, i thought a small retexture would be alowed. but what ev.
if i recal corectly, we had troble finding interiors to the exteriors, as well the int and ex meshes bieng quite faulty. i may be mistaken though (they could have been fixed alredy, or i could be think of the wrong meshes)
if i recal corectly, we had troble finding interiors to the exteriors, as well the int and ex meshes bieng quite faulty. i may be mistaken though (they could have been fixed alredy, or i could be think of the wrong meshes)
In hoc signo vinces
"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
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-PoHa!
Its not worth making new meshes just for Blacklight. It's too late in the game to be making new architecture sets. A year ago, maybe, but not now. Right now we should just be concerned with patching up what needs to be fixed so that its playable. Just find a way around it... if that means not doing it in velothi, then so be it. Thats one of the reasons we closed OoT. You have to draw the line somewhere.
As far as I know, the velothi tower (there's one used in Karthor Dale) is still faulty.
And it definitely lacks interior meshes...
If I knew how to model, knew how to use that *curse* Blender to export to working .nif files rather than bogus things that cause NIFTexture and the TESCS to crash, and the moratorium wasn't there, I'd flood OoT with meshes that would make interior making much easier for the velothi set and others.
But I don't have enough time to vainquish even just one of these ifs.
And it definitely lacks interior meshes...
If I knew how to model, knew how to use that *curse* Blender to export to working .nif files rather than bogus things that cause NIFTexture and the TESCS to crash, and the moratorium wasn't there, I'd flood OoT with meshes that would make interior making much easier for the velothi set and others.
But I don't have enough time to vainquish even just one of these ifs.
Here is a photo of BL.
İ delimited three zone, red, yellow, blue.
The blue: separeted from the city (canal? On a cliff) the imp village and the bridge to the tower-harbor.
The yellow: the main Velothi city. The northern (on the left) could be aquatic (?), the southern having a little official district (velothi) and separated from the city by a cliff step. Because of the lack of buildings, some parts could have been ruined, the city could have partialy fall in decadence (large places with big vegetations...) after the Redoran living. İ’m hesitating about creating a big temple district.
The red: a cliff and a long beach with the local harbor. A separated Hlallu-shag district, two long streets, one growing the cliff, the other along the beach.
İt’s just a proposition.
Because of the impossibility of new meshes, lack of Velothi, and geography.
İ will just retexture tree or four Hlallu buildings to have some walls to put.
İ delimited three zone, red, yellow, blue.
The blue: separeted from the city (canal? On a cliff) the imp village and the bridge to the tower-harbor.
The yellow: the main Velothi city. The northern (on the left) could be aquatic (?), the southern having a little official district (velothi) and separated from the city by a cliff step. Because of the lack of buildings, some parts could have been ruined, the city could have partialy fall in decadence (large places with big vegetations...) after the Redoran living. İ’m hesitating about creating a big temple district.
The red: a cliff and a long beach with the local harbor. A separated Hlallu-shag district, two long streets, one growing the cliff, the other along the beach.
İt’s just a proposition.
Because of the impossibility of new meshes, lack of Velothi, and geography.
İ will just retexture tree or four Hlallu buildings to have some walls to put.
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About the imp harbor:
İt's just an exemple i did quickly, but it give the general idea.
The fort will be in the bay, isolated. The tower will be higher but not bigger.
İt's just an exemple i did quickly, but it give the general idea.
The fort will be in the bay, isolated. The tower will be higher but not bigger.
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- B_harbor.jpg
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Don't be afraid to completely alter the layout of the town. Kingfish once recommended I do a [url=http://www.castles.org/castles/Europe/Western_Europe/France/france2.htm]Mont Saint Michel[/url]-style town. i.e. make it smaller and stick it all up on the top of a spiral hill. You don't have to do Velothi either - do what works best for you, but don't feel obliged to stick to the old boundaries - they are wrong anyway.
Funny, in one of my old mod.
The idea to occupy the bay is good.
Anyway, i have try and it's possible to build a completely Velothian city. The challenge of the lore is funny, i will follow them. Just retexuring a few Hlallu could really help.
Has Kingfish stolen a mind in more? Just need to ask to have a good idea.
Oh, i need the files and the exact location.
The idea to occupy the bay is good.
Anyway, i have try and it's possible to build a completely Velothian city. The challenge of the lore is funny, i will follow them. Just retexuring a few Hlallu could really help.
Has Kingfish stolen a mind in more? Just need to ask to have a good idea.
Oh, i need the files and the exact location.
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i don't underestand what you mean...kebra wrote:...Has Kingfish stolen a mind in more?...
anyway, by all means, you are allowed and mostly encouraged to change the landscape to fit your needs, you don't realy have to bother yourself about the map - the shape of penninsula and bay. the map in this area is off and inacurate. in fact, it's advisable to cut off a few cells of land in favor for the sea - it's too close to vvardenfell and solstheim now.
i guess dex is right, we will leave it up to you, but imo the best'd be a velothi downtown and [if needed] hlaalu or imp suburbs.
a while back, when vern and i were talking about this, my idea/inspiration was Mount saint Michael - a coastal town in france...
http://www.fredsplace.org/images/eagle/071805/mntstemichel.jpg
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/216714/2/Mount_Saint_Michael.jpg
EDIT: damn, i somehow missed vern's last post, so sorry for saying the same...
Last edited by kingfish on Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
this is what i've done a while ago: -see pic
red- actuall borders [where realy are]
blue- a proposed coast line [very rough]
red- actuall borders [where realy are]
blue- a proposed coast line [very rough]
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by posting useless junk on these forums you WON'T become a modder, only a spammer...