The difference between crowns and forebears.
Moderator: Lead Developers
The difference between crowns and forebears.
I think it's time this was discussed. In a minute I will link to existing concept that I see as examples of each. I'm thinking Elscumago's style for cowns and a combination of others for forebears.
Forebears:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v422/wrongfoot/concept/complex.jpg
http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/7351/bazaar3cq.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00027iu.jpg
Crowns:
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfmarketcolored0zb.jpg[/img]
http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elscumbago2d0cg.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mowsg50ae.jpg
Forebears:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v422/wrongfoot/concept/complex.jpg
http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/7351/bazaar3cq.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00027iu.jpg
Crowns:
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfmarketcolored0zb.jpg[/img]
http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elscumbago2d0cg.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mowsg50ae.jpg
Last edited by Macar on Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Oh really, I never got the memo. Oh well, I'm going to continue this untill I hear that there arent.
Basicaly I'm thinking the domes and Islamic stle would represent Crowns while more indian and ancient egyptian stuff reperesents Forbears.
Basicaly I'm thinking the domes and Islamic stle would represent Crowns while more indian and ancient egyptian stuff reperesents Forbears.
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- Nomadic1
- Developer Emeritus
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Nope, as I suspect the whole Crowns and Forebears thing might have fizzled out. They certainly would not have different architecture, as the architecture in general predates the whole Crown - Forebear thing entirely. Instead, architecture is regionalised. The Imperial Library has been doing screenies of palaces and so forth from Daggerfall. I recommend taking a little looksie. Also I have no idea what you mean by "Basicaly I'm thinking the domes and Islamic stle would represent Crowns while more indian and ancient egyptian stuff reperesents Forbears.". Ancient Egyptian style is, IIRC, Khajiit. Domes in architecture are very rare because they are expensive and time consuming to make, and thus are limited to a very select few buildings. And I don't know what you mean by Indian architecture, because Indian architecture is so astronomically diverse and ancient there is no "style". And lastly, Islamic architecture is incredibly regionalised. Take a look at pictures of Timbuktu (in Mali), Fez (Morocco), Cairo (Egypt), Damascus (Syria), Baghdad (Iraq), and Samarqand (Uzbekistan) to clearly see what I mean about regionalisation. None of those cities looks the same as another, and are instead built from materials found locally and in styles to adapt to the climate.
This is not Morrowind, where each faction was largely isolated from the others and so they created their own distinct style.
This is not Morrowind, where each faction was largely isolated from the others and so they created their own distinct style.
good point. I suppose I was just thinking in morrowind-ish terms. It makes far more sense to have regional stles than it does to have faction styles. If you think about it, that would be like if the archetexture in an American cities told you wiether it was democrat or republican.
So, Instead I just want to start talking about regional styles. What I had selected above as "forebear archetexture" I sould instead say is "central hammerfell style". I dont know if lore supports this- but I immagine the more dry areas are a lot poorer than the more fertile ones. These buildings look poorer to me. The upward, space saving look of them could go along with our idea of cities set in mountains and cliffs.
I'm not shure yet what the crowns style should be changed to. But it's definately a welthier reigion.
Please share ideas on what reigons should look like.
Jacarutu's post at the bottom of this page gives some ideas
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=15085
So, Instead I just want to start talking about regional styles. What I had selected above as "forebear archetexture" I sould instead say is "central hammerfell style". I dont know if lore supports this- but I immagine the more dry areas are a lot poorer than the more fertile ones. These buildings look poorer to me. The upward, space saving look of them could go along with our idea of cities set in mountains and cliffs.
I'm not shure yet what the crowns style should be changed to. But it's definately a welthier reigion.
Please share ideas on what reigons should look like.
Jacarutu's post at the bottom of this page gives some ideas
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=15085
- Nomadic1
- Developer Emeritus
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- Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:34 am
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The best thing to do would be to go through official region by region (Sentinel "province", Salakalaam "province", Alikr "province", etc) and decide what the architecture would be like. Neighbouring regions would be relatively similar to each other, although adapted to their individual needs and tastes (as well as age). Daggerfall (the game) is the best place to start for this, and you have gotta love the Imperial Library for lore.
Keep in mind, we will be building all this architecture ourselves. We really don't want to stress our modelers by having them build more than two complete architecture sets.
About the Forebears and Crowns, I would think that even if Imperial architecture predates their feud, the Crowns would still differ in their architecture. They revere the ancient Ra Gada traditions, and so their architecture would most likely be similar to the Yokudan style (whatever that may be).
My idea is to have most architecture be in the Forebears style, which would be Middle-Eastern Islamic, featuring lots of rectangular buildings and domes. The Crown style would mostly be limited to things like temples, which would be much more Indian Hindu/Buddhist in style.
About the Forebears and Crowns, I would think that even if Imperial architecture predates their feud, the Crowns would still differ in their architecture. They revere the ancient Ra Gada traditions, and so their architecture would most likely be similar to the Yokudan style (whatever that may be).
My idea is to have most architecture be in the Forebears style, which would be Middle-Eastern Islamic, featuring lots of rectangular buildings and domes. The Crown style would mostly be limited to things like temples, which would be much more Indian Hindu/Buddhist in style.
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- Nomadic1
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:34 am
- Location: Adelaide, Australia
Are you sure that is a good way to go? The two styles you suggest are quite strikingly different, and Hindu / Buddhist architecture shows no semblance to what I've seen of Hammerfell through prior games. Also, two sets is not much at all. Morrowind has about 10 all up (5 Great House, Velothi, Imperial, Nordic, Ashlander, Daedric, Dwemer, stronghold), and even that gets quickly repetitive.
Simple "square" clay buildings are likely to be extremely common. Therefore really a couple of sets of these would be all that is needed, and given enough variety of style, form (stand-alone, split level, terrace, row, etc.) and materials (mud brick not rendered/bagged, smooth clay, stucko (whitish) for richer places, and some tiled). Wooden posts on the side for roofs and elaborate detailing could probably be a separate mesh to put on them.
What isn't needed is exceptionally elaborate architecture, such as domes and so forth. Very few of these could be used (in respect to other buildings) in any believable manner.
Simple "square" clay buildings are likely to be extremely common. Therefore really a couple of sets of these would be all that is needed, and given enough variety of style, form (stand-alone, split level, terrace, row, etc.) and materials (mud brick not rendered/bagged, smooth clay, stucko (whitish) for richer places, and some tiled). Wooden posts on the side for roofs and elaborate detailing could probably be a separate mesh to put on them.
What isn't needed is exceptionally elaborate architecture, such as domes and so forth. Very few of these could be used (in respect to other buildings) in any believable manner.
What I would recommend as far as regional Hammerfell archtecture goes would be:
-Two complete sets of the major architectural pieces minus all those small detail bits like parapets and windows.
-Many different "detail sets" that would be added as modular pieces.These would include various modular items that attach onto the main sets. These could even simply be retextures of each other.
This would give a unity to nearby areas, while also making them separate from each other with the minimum amount of work.
-Two complete sets of the major architectural pieces minus all those small detail bits like parapets and windows.
-Many different "detail sets" that would be added as modular pieces.These would include various modular items that attach onto the main sets. These could even simply be retextures of each other.
This would give a unity to nearby areas, while also making them separate from each other with the minimum amount of work.
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I think regionally we could change the architecture's texture to represent different building materials used to create the same style. However, again, building an entire tileset is not easy. It is a huge amount of work, and to be realistic, I doubt our modders will be able to do more than two tilesets.
"Hail Dexter."
-Yinnie
You REALLY don't want me to come back.
-Yinnie
You REALLY don't want me to come back.
I just really wish we could have more. I'm worried that it will be boring if we only have 2 styles. But I suppose we need to be realistic, producing oblion quality models isnt easy.
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