"Authentic" designs

[Ali]

Hi,

I'm a newbie so bear with me if I waffle or don't follow procedure completely.

This post is about my opinion regarding the use of texture for the province of Hammerfell. I've seen some of the beautiful textures people have found based on Egyptian and Maghrebi Islamic designs and the magnificent ideas some people have for the architecture of the region. I would like to humbly offer my opinion on the use of these textures and show some photo's I have taken from my travels through the southern countries of Arabia. Specifically I've concentrated today with pictures from the nothern part of the Sultanate of Oman mostly form the vicinity of Jabal Akhdar. I'm using these to encourage people to use as much restraint as possible when it comes to the ornate geometric carvings and their application of buildings and to suggest some designs that would beter suite the abodes of the "common folk". Trust me I'm a wood carver and the time it takes to do a geometric design would make it expensive and out of the reach of normal people who have to scrape a living out of a barren land.

Later I will show some photos of the interior of Sultan Qaboos's (the current ruler of Oman) guest palace and the colours and vast application of textures that you could use for designs on more regal buildings. But for today I will just show a taster to see peoples opinions. Starting with an image of the Juma Masjid in Nizwa the old capital of Oman. Notice the defensive architecture which defines this country, even on a mosque.

[Ali]

Here is a picture of an interior in Musandam, notice how there is a cornice in the wall, because of the expense of wood these were used instead of shelves, people ate on the floor on cushions in a "majlis" with most people sleeping on the floor. For most the only things made of wood would be the door, window shutters(for some) and a chest. This picture also shows a beautiful design simply made from mud that could provide visual interest to even the poorest of Hammerfell houses without replacing the realism with a "disneyland reality".

[Ali]

I'm showing the architecture of Oman at the moment because unlike Egypt and the like Oman has been isolated from the rest of the world from little after the death of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to the arrival of the latest Sultan in the 1970's. This is due to their position of being the only country in the world that follows Ibadiyyah Islam which is the oldest Islamic sect. Because of this and constant fear of invasion from their hostile neighbours Oman has literally thousands of forts, castles and watchtowers dotted across the countryside. Also even the humblest of hovels bears symbols reminiscent of the "1001 Nights". Arabian archs of the like of Disney's "Aladin" decorate doorways, windows, battlements, enclaves and even furniture. While the narrow winding souqs allow you to easily imagine the watching eyes of jjins (basically free genies) or the overhead passing of a flying carpet!

Here is a photo of one of innumerable ruined villages that cover the Omani countryside. This one however is special as it was the epicentre of a Ibadhi Revolution against the previous despotic and tyrannical Sultan back inthe 1950's (by the way the area still kept slaves form East Africa at this time!). This revolution was only defeated with the help of the British SAS who left this village in its current condition.

[Andres Indoril]

Nice, but you don't have to triplepost, when no one has commented your finds then you could edit your post instead for posting a new one. And could you host your pictures elsewhere?
[url=http://www.imageshack.us/]Imageshack[/url] is a free picture hosting site. You could use that.

[Ali]

The area of Jabal Akhdar was only taken by the SAS after one their patrols accidently came across a stairway leading up the side of the mountain. This had been forgotten for well over a millenium when it had literally been carved out of the solid rock by the Persian army while they were under fire from above by the locals. It is said they lost tens of thousands of men building the stairway but it was the only way they could take Jabal Akhdar, until the SAS took it using this path the Persians were the only people to have ever defeated the people of this region of Oman which had remained autonomous from the Sultans for centuries being ruled by their own Imam's.
Here is a photo showing the main entrance and gateway to the village of Saiq.

[Ali]

Thanks I'm loading the picures on that site now.

[Ali]

URL=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5748/saiqmosqueinterior9ij.jpg[/img][/URL]

Here is the interior of one of the 2 mosques in the village of Saiq.

[Ali]

Sorry I meant to group the pictures in one post....

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1211/omanifort9xn.jpg[/img][/url]

This is an Omani fort picture (not mine from the internet)

URL=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7020/mosqueatsaiq6hi.jpg[/img][/URL]

This is the exterior of the Mosque at Saiq

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3285/saiqtower29ux.jpg[/img][/url]

Here is the main surviving watchtower in Saiq

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5048/masqatfort3nh.jpg[/img][/url]

Another picture from the internet this time of one of the forts at Muttrah (the port and oldest part of the capital muscat)

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5961/muttrah7je.jpg[/img][/url]

These are the old merchant houses in Muttrah again from the internet

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/3535/musandambayt20kb.jpg[/img][/url]

This is a picture of an impressive mountain style house I saw in the Musandam region probaly originaly used for some government purpose (e.g border guard post)

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9345/tiwi23rc.jpg[/img][/url]

This picture shows how the villages tend to be intergrated with the local terrain and the random layout of the buildings.

[Orix]

I love some of these pictures Ali. For instance, that mountain style house could be used for Hammerfell's version of poor housing, or lone settlements (in similar vain to the cottages/farms in Oblivion).

We did have an architecture thread around somewhere that had a collection of photos of authentic middle eastern style buildings. It might be in the private seciton of the board though...

Some of the approved concepts are very similar to what you have posted (like the merchant houses in Muttrah), although I suppose so far there has been a slight lean towards the expensive buildings with the domes etc, more than the tall fort-like structures you've posted. Referencing the picture in the latest Pocket Guide to the Empire, it does seem that those architecture styles are in lore.

[Ali]

Here are a few details, I have books full of Islamic designs if anyone want some pictures or inspiration and literally hundreds of more photos of my region.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6867/doorindeira4dm.jpg[/img][/url]

A modern door in Dubai which shows traditional designs, often these are brightly coloured with reds, greens and blue as they contrast deeply with the monotomous orange and browns of the desert region.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2928/nizwafortentrance28wl.jpg[/img][/url]

This is some details of local wood carving designs around the one of the entrances to Nizwa fort.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/218/nizwamosquedetail23mu.jpg[/img][/url]

These tiles show the beauty of adding some small areas of intricate blue tiles to contrast with the graceful forms of the brown building architecture.

Later on, probaly tommorrow or the day after I'll show the images of the interior of a Sultan's palace to show examples of how you can really go mad with colour and texture when using Islamic design. I also have some examples of Islamic furniture at home including an extremely extravagant Omani mirrored dresser complete with bone inlay, mother of pearl and turned masharabiyyah (woodturned screens).

[Ali]

In response to Orix's interest of the more crude mountain architecture I've added some more photo's from Musandam region an area of Oman isolated from the rest by UAE with a distinct culture and dialect that can prove difficult even for other Omani's to understand.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6633/hattahhouse3zs.jpg[/img][/url]

This is the entrance to a house in Hattah a region of the Emirate of Dubai, its construction is cruder than those found in Musandam.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/930/hattahshelves6no.jpg[/img][/url]

The interior of the same house showing how storage shelves are made in the crudest of houses.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4525/as15art0132xv.jpg[/img][/url]

This shows perfectly the landscape of Musandam and how the houses and farms of previous times fitted perfectly into it. Each of the fields relied on the rains to wash soil into them only the wall around the edge was built by the farmer. Nothern Oman hasn't had real rain for over 7 years so you can imagine how longs these fields took to fill up with soil!

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8233/omani10056xq.jpg[/img][/url]

Another view showing a village surrounded by old grain fields.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8079/as15art0159mc.jpg[/img][/url]

A closeup of the exterior of a house showing also the entrance to a field.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/378/musandampot1wr.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6544/musandamoven8aq.jpg[/img][/url]

2 pictures showing the basic interior of one of these houses, in particular notice the little oven in the second picture.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9900/wadibih323br.jpg[/img][/url]

A crude windowshutter on the village tower

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2206/as15art0241me.jpg[/img][/url]

The tower itself, every village needed defence from raiders all villages had a defensive building, usually a tower and small barracks. Many had small forts and even the smallest lone farm had a position to hide behind and fire a jezzail from, usually a circular wall and hole on a small ridge. Villages usually have a few of this on mountains around them to act as watchouts. This could be of particular use with regards to Hammerfell due to raids from the interior desert tribes.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6376/omani10039tf.jpg[/img][/url]

These mysterious stacks of stones watch out over the neighbouring village yet serve no defensive purpose and are certainly not graves, I'm only guessing but perhaps they served some purpose in the pre-Islamic religion, maybe something to do with the stars?

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/2084/omani10044gb.jpg[/img][/url]

Here's part of the village graveyard, note the pre-Islamic symbol on one of the gravestones.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7808/musandamcamels3mr.jpg[/img][/url]

Even in houses as crude as this you can still add designs to spice it up, this is a crude picture of a warrior on a camel, you also get ones of families or ancient glyphs.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/1447/omani10017hl.jpg[/img][/url]

Another symbol from a house this time on the foundation stone of a interior wall and showing a serpent.

[Macar]

Kaif el halek, Ali. Those are some beatiful photographs. Are you a professional photographer, by any chance? Makes me wish I took more pictures when I lived in Riyadh- some great ruins in Dareyah.
Also, do you happen to have any modding skills? It would be nice to have another person around who has been to the middle east.

[Ali]

Al Hamdu lilah wa anta?
I have moderate modding skills but I won't have a PC good enough to run Oblivion for about 4 months when I move to the UK... so I'm afraid for the moment the only assistance I can give is by showing pictures of the local architecture, I'm in Dubai at the moment so if you need any pictures of "old" buildings or at least what were old buildings but have now been rebuilt out of concrete in a similar style.... I might be going to Oman again in a month if you want any specific photos and I should be going to Dehli and Rajastan if you want a more Indian form of desert architecture. I still have actual design sheets of various details of palace and Islamic designs in particular of wood carving as thats my current trade.

[Macar]

I would like to see some close-ups of islamic tile ornaments and other geometric designs- if you see any good ones. Since that type of design is so difficult (I know because I've tried) I was thinking we might be able to make good photos of them into textures.

[Nanu]

These are rather good photos Ali. Close-ups of buildings in your area are really good textures. I admire the architecture over there.

[Ali]

Thankyou, I'll try and get some closeup photos of the details, I have a few pieces of carved work in both Islamic and South Indian design at home. Some I carved myself and some of the really ornate ones my Carving master/foreman and the other carvers did. I'll take some pictures of them now and upload them, unfortunatly all of the truely ornate ones were for palaces and are therefore samples and mostly made of MDF so they will probaly need some sort of colouring.

Tommorrow I'm going done the souq and I have a friend who runs an art gallery there which includes many examples of handpainted Iranian tile work so I'll try and take some pictures of them and the simpler carved doors you'd expect on houses in the towns and cities.

On Saturday I go back to work and I can take pictures from a wide range of Islamic textures including those from half a palace door we made for the Sultan of Omans guest palace, each door cost 25,000 POUNDS!

I should have some more details from various pieces within about an hour on the forum but I may have to do them again because its night here and they don't always come out that good...

[Ali]

I've had a look through some files and got a few images of close up designs through they vary in quality and usefulness, I'll post a few of them now but I'll definately be able to get some better ones tommorrow and the day after.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9972/design5tw.jpg[/img][/url]

This is a view of the side of my Omani dresser

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9447/design12ob.jpg[/img][/url]

and a close up from the same picture showing the mother of pearl and camel bone inlay

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2884/design39rz.jpg[/img][/url]

A drawer from the same dresser showing some Omani carving designs

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9223/glass7ai.jpg[/img][/url]

This is something I made back in school... based on an Islamic mashribiyyah design

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/4022/0105zg.jpg[/img][/url]

some carving sample for the Sultans palace

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7854/0110pf.jpg[/img][/url]

another sample

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/2680/art0387xi.jpg[/img][/url]

part of a mirror I made

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4268/img08243ck.jpg[/img][/url]

another mirror corner with another frame below

Also I don't have my decent camera at the moment it won't be back with me for about a week so I'll have to see if the quality of any new photo's I take is good enough.

[Macar]

Wow! You made that stuff? Very nice. Dont worry too much about the quality. Even if the pictures cant be used as textures, they will at least help inspire people- and people can coppy them too.

[Lutemoth]

Ali, I'm really glad you came along. I've been stumped and blindly fingering my way to a more Yokudan designwork that had it's arabic-style roots. Your photographs are inciteful and dilligent. It's just what we've needed.

[Ali]

Its no problem, if theres any particular type of things you need photos of I can probaly get them and I do have a book on Egyptian Islamic design which includes some sketchs for woodworkers (i.e. just outlines) which could prove useful along with about 100 paintings of specific patterns and objects. I have another Islamic design book which includes Persian, Maghrebi (Muslim N. Africa) and Syrian designs which are all craftmens drawings however I've lent it to a friend so I won't have it back for at least a week.

Anyway if there's any particular designs anyone needs just ask.

[Lady Nerevar]

wondenderfull pics! onely one request though, can you post them as thumbnails (using imageshack) or jsut resize them to be smaller? they are a starin even on the bigest of monitors...

[Ali]

I've got a few more images off my computer today. While I was looking at the concepts for Hammerfell buildings, I noticed a large number of arched doors, now I don't want to be picky but althrough there are a lot of arched doorways I have only seen arched doors on the palaces of the Sultan, Emir or Shaykhs never on general architecture. Trust me when I say it is very hard for a joiner to make a arched door that actually fits an archway especially in some rough area of Arabia where he probaly spends him time mostly making dowry chests.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/9041/mihrab9io.jpg[/img][/url]

This is the entrance to one of the 2 mosques at Saiq, you can see the column inside joining the 2 interior arches and the mihrab built into the wall, this shows the qiblah, the direction of Makkah. Most importantly if you look at the doorway, althrough its arched the door is oblong.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1310/mosquearch5bh.jpg[/img][/url]

Heres one way the hole in the arch left by the door can be filled on an Ibadhi mosque in Muscat.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/9823/mosquearch21rt.jpg[/img][/url]

Another image of a carved fresco on the same mosque.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3558/mosquepanel9ca.jpg[/img][/url]

And a panel from under one of the windows.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7320/nizwafortarch0mc.jpg[/img][/url]

This is another way the gap is filled this time on the fort at Nizwa

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/508/nizwafortgate1sr.jpg[/img][/url]

From the same fort but this time showing one of the large fortress doors of the main entrance. Also you'll notice a small arched door set in the door for access for allies when under fear of attack.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9696/nizwafortdoor3sz.jpg[/img][/url]

This image shows an original interior door of the fort with a nice sample of the cruder carving work used. Also you can see the heavy iron spikes used to repel raiders, an idea from India originally used to scare elephants away from houses but later used throughout South Arabia to repel attackers.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3361/nizwafortdoor20fi.jpg[/img][/url]

Another view of the same door. However if you look into the background you'll notice how Southern Arabs tended to put bars on all their windows (also on their school buses, but that to keep children in not invaders out!) Also I thought the lower panel with simple geometric designs might be useful.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/628/nizwafortmihrab6cr.jpg[/img][/url]

This is a simple clean arch in the fort with a beautiful pierced design above it. I also though this would make a good design especially with more refined turqouise Iranian tilework.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6342/img09371zz.jpg[/img][/url]

This is a view of some shops in the Deira side of Dubai. They show off a more unusual arch design along with different styles of balcony balastrade and to the right theres an unusual windtower. (later today I'll be opening a new thread on unique architecture of different regions which will include the layout of coastal and mountain towns).

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8661/1000016img8zf.jpg[/img][/url]

Another view from Saiq, I'm not show if the main building had a tower or if thats simply the remains of the second floor. But judging from the fact that you can see bookshelves I'm guessing this was probaly the house of the Imam who led the revolt in the 50's.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5523/1000017img1op.jpg[/img][/url]

Again form Saiq this time showing some sort of military building which showcases quite a few simple archs. Also the building shows off quite well the texture of worn mudbrick housing.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4927/dowrychest15oc.jpg[/img][/url]

Thought I'd show what the only piece of furniture for most people would like. This is probaly a dowry chest giving to the bride laden in gold or silver as a present on her wedding day. However the design could be used for general chests or even decorative doors.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9984/goldenmasjid19ii.jpg[/img][/url]

I read that one of the approved concepts was domed temples, the richer having golden domes. So heres a mosque that fits the description from Muscat.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3395/goldenmasjid22zk.jpg[/img][/url]

This detail shows how through its impressive and extravagant in design, it still has symbollic battlements and heavy doors in a defensive manner. But has many decorative elements too, like the calligraphy, the gold and the masharabiyyah windows.

Like I said before I'm taking photos of tiles today to help those looking for textures or anyone who wants more inspiration.

[CleverClothe]

Awesome stuff Ali, keep up the good work.

[CleverClothe]

Awesome stuff Ali, keep up the good work.

[Anonymous]

I found a nice site with old babylonian script and it teaches you to write with it, here it is http://www.mts.net/~pmorrow/bayeng2.htm you can probably use it in the big mod

P.S. sorry if this is in the wrong forum but im kinda new

[Tyrion]

This stuff is amazing! Thanks, and keep it up!