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Kikaimegami
Developer
06 Dec 2006

Location: Oblivion

I have, within my clawed grasp, the meshes and textures for Necrom. The problem is, Necrom is a minefield of ! boxes, so I am not entirely sure which meshes are actually used. If anyone who knows for sure could give me a list, I would be extremely grateful.

I will be redoing the textures and hopefully fixing the meshes themselves (vertex painting, looking for gaps, and possibly redoing the uv maps, depending). Also, if anyone has any ideas or thoughts, feel free to share Smile

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Post Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:41 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Morden
Developer Emeritus
30 Oct 2003

Location: BC, Canada

I have them as well. A while back I thought I would go ahead and start fixing them. After I loaded them all up and gave them a close inspection, I realised that almost all of them might as well be redone from scratch. Either because the errors are mind numbingly frustrating or the model just looks like ass. I'm not trying to discourage you.. I really appreciate you taking the time to work on this. I just think there should be an open discussion about what exactly needs to be done with these meshes.

If you need any post-UV texture help just ask.
Post Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:21 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

IMO Necrom needs to be expanded anyway.
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Post Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Stalker
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2004

Location: Ukraine

Redone. Because half of interiors are also missing the meshes.
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Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:25 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Kikaimegami
Developer
06 Dec 2006

Location: Oblivion

Interiors too? Woes. I was just given ext meshes, only one int in the pile I have.

I don't think I can do new meshes. I could probably fudge together some ext meshes, but the only architectural modeling experience I have is from 3dsmax3.11 over five years ago: some Greek styled things and a suspension bridge for a class project. I don't think I really have the knowledge toolset for making new meshes from scratch, I can only do texturing and fixing old meshes Sad

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Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:53 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



For the Necrom ints, I'm of the opinion we should just retexture the existing velothi pieces.

For the exterior, there's normally all the pieces that exist in the bsa. You can use ghostwheel's "bsapack" utility to extract TR_Data.bsa.

Copy TR_Data.bsa in a temporary directory, along with bsapack.exe. Then, in that directory, run the following command:
Code:
bsapack unpack TR_Data.bsa


After a little while, everything will get unpacked, and you'll be able to move it in Morrowind\Data Files.

The problems I've found with the Necrom meshes are mostly that they're sometimes too small (notably the towers, which have a part where we're supposed to walk -- you can't, even when they're not half-sized, I ran some tests) and especially that they have visible seams.
Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:39 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Morden
Developer Emeritus
30 Oct 2003

Location: BC, Canada

The quick way to make an interior model is to take the exterior and invert it inside-out. Most modelling programs have an invert function.
Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:44 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Kikaimegami
Developer
06 Dec 2006

Location: Oblivion

Gez wrote:
For the Necrom ints, I'm of the opinion we should just retexture the existing velothi pieces.

For the exterior, there's normally all the pieces that exist in the bsa. You can use ghostwheel's "bsapack" utility to extract TR_Data.bsa.

Copy TR_Data.bsa in a temporary directory, along with bsapack.exe. Then, in that directory, run the following command:
Code:
bsapack unpack TR_Data.bsa


After a little while, everything will get unpacked, and you'll be able to move it in Morrowind\Data Files.

The problems I've found with the Necrom meshes are mostly that they're sometimes too small (notably the towers, which have a part where we're supposed to walk -- you can't, even when they're not half-sized, I ran some tests) and especially that they have visible seams.


I guess I'll just have to unpack it. I was hoping I wouldn't need to (since it'll take up some space) but I suppose it's a small sacrifice to make.

It was mentioned to me that the meshes need vertex colours applied and this would support that. If they're not listed as "solid" with vertex colours, you can't walk on them. Do you just fall through? Visible seams as in gaps in the mesh, or botched uv mapping? Both of those are easily fixable.

EDIT: I take that back. I didn't realize the gravity of how much the meshes suck when you load them in a 3D program.

*shiver*

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Last edited by Kikaimegami on Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:11 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Kikaimegami
Developer
06 Dec 2006

Location: Oblivion

Morden wrote:
I have them as well. A while back I thought I would go ahead and start fixing them. After I loaded them all up and gave them a close inspection, I realised that almost all of them might as well be redone from scratch. Either because the errors are mind numbingly frustrating or the model just looks like ass. I'm not trying to discourage you.. I really appreciate you taking the time to work on this. I just think there should be an open discussion about what exactly needs to be done with these meshes.

If you need any post-UV texture help just ask.


Gah.. I just looked at the tower mesh Gez was talkng about and see just exactly what you mean. The mesh is pretty, but technically, it's a flipping nightmare.

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Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:23 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Are the Necrom models/textures not in OoT?
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Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

They were removed long ago, since they weren't anywhere close to Beth's standards. Or so I hear, in my limited experience I liked what I saw in the screenshots (minus the Pyramid).
Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:17 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Stalker
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2004

Location: Ukraine

If it is true than the reason of their removal is beyond my comprehension. Why remove them just to break the whole city and populate it with error markers ? Why not to leave it as it is and wait for the new meshes which, quite frankly, may never appear ?
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Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Kikaimegami
Developer
06 Dec 2006

Location: Oblivion

El Scumbago wrote:
They were removed long ago, since they weren't anywhere close to Beth's standards. Or so I hear, in my limited experience I liked what I saw in the screenshots (minus the Pyramid).


I can get screenshots later of what the current meshes look like, but the tower mesh alone is a minefield of gaps and things than really need aligned properly (it has many circles in its center while looking down, these should all be aligned, but none of their centers line up, even within the same object, it appears!). I'm betting some merging of objects might also be in order. There's some nasty clipping on the top part of the tower, where two objects come together and have a jagged seam between them.

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Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

From what Kikai writes, it sounds like making them from scratch while having the original as a guideline is the best way to go. Kikai, do you think you can manage the job?
Post Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:12 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Screenshot gallery of a few fixed meshes.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/haplo12345/Necrom/

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Post Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:32 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Kikaimegami
Developer
06 Dec 2006

Location: Oblivion

Haplo wrote:
Screenshot gallery of a few fixed meshes.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/haplo12345/Necrom/


Ach! Zip those up and send them to me! Also, who is doing them? I was poking at the tower mesh, but I haven't made anything in game yet. If someone else is doing them, I don't want to muck with the meshes and end up reinvinting the wheel if there's someonew else working on it.

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Post Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:32 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lud
Developer Emeritus
27 Aug 2004

Location: Ireland

How's this going, Kikai?
If some of the original meshes are crap, you could just scrap 'em. We can probably get by without a few of Veet's meshes, as long as we have those twoers and walls, etc. Smile

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Post Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:16 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Veet
Developer Emeritus
21 Aug 2003

Location: Oregon

You guys want some seamless versions of the walls and towers? I happen to have some. They aren't fixed models they are completely diferent, well the same basic shape just redone as new models.
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Post Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:52 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Morden
Developer Emeritus
30 Oct 2003

Location: BC, Canada

If you could post the file that would be excellent. Smile
Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:03 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Veet
Developer Emeritus
21 Aug 2003

Location: Oregon

Whats the file folder standard right now? Where should I pack the textures and meshes to avoid retargeting headaches later?
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Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:52 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Call me crazy, but I think we should just replace Necrom meshes with standard Velothi, and make a few custom meshes for other stuff with beth textures. It just doesn't look too right.
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Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

lets see, Veet is offering us awesome replacement necrom meshes, and you say we should just use velothi, even though you haven't seen his new ones (although admittedly they sound as though they will be similar)

YOU'RE CRAZY!

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Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:06 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Veet
Developer Emeritus
21 Aug 2003

Location: Oregon

Well I wouldn't necisarily say awesome but better.

Ok there are 4 pieces in this file; the tower, wall, pylon, and gate. The gate is the only significantly diferent object (see the screenshot) I never liked the old gate anyway. The tower and pylon have somewhat longer bases than the originals so they can be placed on uneven terain more easily, perhaps the wall piece needs this too? All the pieces are more or less the same size as the originals but not exactly, replacing will be needed rather than just pluging them into the old spots.

Let me know what you guys think. It's been a while since I've done anything for TR but I think these models are a big improvement over my old stuff.

Now if my oppinion on Necrom still matters I think that Swiftoak is only half crazy. The velothi stuff should be used because I don't think I'll have the time to redo the houses but they should be retextured to a lighter color. I think there are some pieces already floating around somewhere that are like this.

Personaly I think the whole city should be masively redone since a lot of what is there was done a long time ago when everyone (especialy myself) was trying to figure things out, so its not the best work. I have a few ideas if anyone wants to hear them.

edit

forgot to post the screenshot

/edit



Necrom_Wall.jpg
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Necrom_Wall.jpg



Seamless_Necrom_Walls.zip
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Last edited by Veet on Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:21 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

Based solely on the screenshot: *drools*

I have always been a fan of the necrom architecture, glad to see that they are being fixed.

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The just man frowns, but never sneers. We can understand anger, but not malevolence - Victor Hugo, Les Miserables

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Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:49 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Morden
Developer Emeritus
30 Oct 2003

Location: BC, Canada

Even if only the seams were fixed I would still be very greatful because it gives us a set to work with. Thanks for uploading Veet. I'll check them out when I get home from work tonight. Smile
Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:11 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



Awesome! Have you other rebuilt models?
Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lady Nerevar
Developer Emeritus
08 Jun 2004

Location: New Orleans, LA

VEET!

dang man, havent seen you.... well, since you left Razz


thanks much for the models, they look fabulous Smile

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Post Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:54 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Veet
Developer Emeritus
21 Aug 2003

Location: Oregon

Quote:
Awesome! Have you other rebuilt models?


Not rebuilt but I did manage to come up with this today (see attatched screenshot). Still needs a little texture fixing but the gist is there.

Quote:
VEET!

dang man, havent seen you.... well, since you left


It has been a while. About a year and a half. A lot has happened in that time but I find myself with a little time lately and an inkling to use it, so I ended up here.



Untitled Interior.jpg
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Untitled Interior.jpg



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Post Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:35 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

You're always welcome, Veet. Awesome interior tileset piece too. Looks real nice to me Very Happy
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Post Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:04 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Andres Indoril
Senior Developer
13 Jan 2006

Location: Lost.... Somewhere?

I wanna mod on it! :O
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Post Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Veet
Developer Emeritus
21 Aug 2003

Location: Oregon

Here we go. Everything you need for basic interiors. No double height pieces or anything like that....yet.Very Happy


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"Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage."
-- Winston Churchill
Post Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:10 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Morden
Developer Emeritus
30 Oct 2003

Location: BC, Canada

Nice. Can't wait to check them out after work. You may have just saved Map 3. Smile
Post Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:16 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



Map 2. Necrom is on map2 !
Post Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:16 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lady Nerevar
Developer Emeritus
08 Jun 2004

Location: New Orleans, LA

glad to see you back, even for a while Smile

the int peice looks realy nice too. necrom will realy stand out from the other cities, wich is good

[edit]
took a look at the int pieces, again very nice. the walls and floors have a lot of extra polygons though.

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Post Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:54 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Macar
Developer Emeritus
27 Jan 2005

Location: Yellow

maybe Morden meant that Map 3 was indirectly saved... you know, um, because without these models map2 will be so hard we'll never get to 3... Yeah, that's it.
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Post Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

or that the entire project is Dependant on the necrom lighthouse. =P [/spam]
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The just man frowns, but never sneers. We can understand anger, but not malevolence - Victor Hugo, Les Miserables

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Post Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Thrignar Fraxix wrote:
or that the entire project is Dependant on the Necrom lighthouse. =P [/spam]


*idea*

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Post Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:25 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Veet
Developer Emeritus
21 Aug 2003

Location: Oregon

Arg, optimising is a pain. I think I can shave off about a third of the polys but its going to take some work, unless someone knows a trick. I'll work a bit on that tonight.
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Post Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lady Nerevar
Developer Emeritus
08 Jun 2004

Location: New Orleans, LA

well, most of the polies are in flat areas of the wall/floor. in maya, i simply select edges and later vertexes and deleat all the surplus squares. then i just riangulate it again.

if you dont have time i could do it on monday.

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Post Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:36 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Veet
Developer Emeritus
21 Aug 2003

Location: Oregon

Try these models. I ran into an alignment issue and had to redo the floors and ceilings. I used the oportunity to get part of the indentations to. The polygons are nearly half of what they were but still a little steep. On the bright side I also did a version without the indentations that is one tenth the poly count of the original. Its not nearly as prety but more manageable. Perhaps we could use these for filler and the others for highlight. (the plain version is included in the attatchment)

If these get the aproval I can crank out the whole set, including double height pieces.

[edit]
forgot to add the attachment.
[/edit]



Untitled Interior Lower Polygon Eddition.zip
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"Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage."
-- Winston Churchill


Last edited by Veet on Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:21 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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