A quick question

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:11 pm

I just had a quick question, which I am sure has been asked countless times before but I didn't see it in the FAQs anywhere.

Given Oblivion's atrocious levelled creature system, will TR's Hammerfell also include similar levelled lists for the sake of continuity? Or is a different system being planned?

I suppose I can always mod the mod if need be, lol.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:41 pm

!

It's Lord Gallant!

How are you doing man? Long time no see. Or type. Or whatever.

Anyways, I'm not even sure if we have actually decided this seeing as we're currently just trying to get the architecture and flora together so that we can make the landscape. However, I would definitely vote for breaking with TR tradition on this count at least, as that "feature" of Oblivion is almost universally reviled.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:59 pm

it is pretty obscene for sure.

TR may not want to change the game format at all, but I think there needs to be a mod that eliminates this and some other things that beth "changed" from TES: namely the "2 minutes to level 20" system.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:53 pm

TR really has no choice but to implement level scaling. But hopefully someone will create a mod for our mod which eliminates it.

I ended up finishing the game at Level 2, by refusing to level up. It's much more fun than going up 5 or 6 levels at a time.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:14 am

I suppose the author of "Adrenaline Oblivion" would be interested in removing the lvl lists for Hammerfell, assuming he'll still be around by then.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:30 am

Howdy Zal

Yeah, it has been a long time, lol.

Yeah, a lot of people came up with their own mod solutions to that hideous scaling system Bethesda cooked up. I went ahead and wrote my own mod that placed creatures by rarity and location (powerful monsters were more rare and some locations were more dangerous than others). The thing is this took forever to do, and hell, I didn't even bother buying Shivering Isles because I knew I'd have to end up spending all that time again to mod it.

On the other side of the coin, there is the motto of continuity that TR has stood by since its conception, and that I was a very strong advocator of during my day. Regretably, I would have to admit that including a levelled list similar to Bethesda's is a necessity, and just count on modders to make it make sense. Though I tend to think that most of the console kiddies that actually enjoyed the levelled hand-holding probably aren't even playing the game any more and certainly won't have access to this mod, so I guess I really don't know.

Unbelievable the bullshit that Bethesda made us have to swim through just to make their game playable.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:50 pm

Nomadic1 wrote:TR really has no choice but to implement level scaling. But hopefully someone will create a mod for our mod which eliminates it.

Why do we have no choice?

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:22 pm

I thought TR followed the Vanilla game as close to every detail as they could.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:25 am

I thought TR followed the Vanilla game as close to every detail as they could.

I don't see the purpose of following something that is foolish without a doubt if it isn't necessary

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:56 am

Haplo wrote:Why do we have no choice?

I can think of two reasons of the top of my head. One) The whole continuity thing, whereby newb walks from Cyrodiil to Hammerfell, enters cave without level-scaling, gets ass-whooped and screams "WTF! %#@!ing TR." and then gives us bad PR.

The second is the whole TR dogma, if you will lend the word, of doing what BS would do and sticking to lore. They fucked up big time on the scaling but they still made KotN and SI with scaling. Also picking and choosing what we get to keep would also lead to questions about what other stuff we get to pick and choose to keep. Keep Pandora's Box closed.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:31 pm

I'd have to agree with Nomadic1 here. As much as I hate the level scaling, maintaining continuity with the original game is important. Bethesda acknowledged the fact that it made a big mistake with the scaling long before they made the expansion, but they made the expansion with level scaling anyway for continuity's sake, and I think it is TR's mission to do the same.

Unfortunately, I think TR would have to either rely on outside modders to fix the problem (just like any other Bethsoft expansion), or make a second, non-scaling version of Hammerfell, which would undoubtedly be a serious pain in the ass.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:20 am

But it could be done.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:54 pm

First, I doubt anyone would complain about us not using beth's scaling. Second, I doubt there's any player that isn't using a mod to change it in some way. And if there is, they're probably oblivious to mods in general and wouldn't even download TR.

A few small tweaks make Beth's system alot better. For levelled lists, having compute for all levels <= player level improves things greatly. That way, the spawned creatures are mixed in strength. Instead of as soon as you hit a certain level, there are no more weaker enemies. You get some strong and matched to your level and some weak and easy cannon fodder.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:01 pm

Eraser wrote:Second, I doubt there's any player that isn't using a mod to change it in some way.

*raises hand*

The only mods I use are DLCs and TR. The only mods I used for MW were TR and a shitty house mod I liked for some reason.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:42 pm

*raises hand also*

Besides TR mods and things I make myself. I never really went out looking for mods to change Oblivion since I never gave it the attention and play time I give to Morrowind.

For Morrowind I have TR stuff, things I've made myself, FPS oprimizer, and the graphics extender which does alot to the game.

Personally, I think the gameplay in Oblivion is great, until you get past lvl 4. I usually never go beyond that with a character, since most of what I do consists of traveling around to all the different towns and seeing what there is to see in the wilderness.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:32 am

I too don't use mods, and I've only gone past level 2 once (that was the first time I played - I learned to never go past level 2 from that experience)

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:51 am

I tried to do what you do, Nomadic, once. But my characters like sleeping like NPC's

Then they wake up to find a really annoying window stuck in their face, and they can't get out without accepting to it, then all of a sudden everyone seems thougher and the monsters just got bigger...

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:02 am

How do you live without MCA and NoM? Seriously though, I've seen many TR members who don't use mods, which is something I find rather weird, considering we're a mod-making team, and a major one too.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:51 am

Why would we need to live on mods when we can make them ourselves (I acctually used a heap of mods for morrowind but then I had a computer switch etc. etc. and now I have none but my own, TR and frappyr (sp?) for obvious reason (btw, I am experiencing problems with it, but I don't think I should post them here...)).

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:17 pm

The trick, Jedak, is to pick your major skills in things you never use. For example: Heavy Armour, Blunt Weapon, Conjuration, Alchemy, etc. Though I'm sure there are plenty of nuts out there which use the aforementioned skills. If I didn't stop to open the books, I would still be level one.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:56 pm

Wow you guys are freaks

No wonder you never got into OB and weren't impressed by it. I've been playing the same character for a year. I'm level 37 and its still pretty balanced with a mix of my own modding and downloads.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:03 pm

I had a lvl 23 character. Explain to me why a townsperson should be walking around with a 100lb ebony warhammer strapped to their back?

I thought it killed immersion since you cant take a walk through the woods without having to slaughter hordes of minotaurs. To me the game is much more enjoyable at lvl 2 than at lvl 20 since you can immerse yourself in it fully.

angelus6 · Post by **angelus6** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:08 pm

Nomadic1 wrote:
Haplo wrote:Why do we have no choice?
I can think of two reasons of the top of my head. One) The whole continuity thing, whereby newb walks from Cyrodiil to Hammerfell, enters cave without level-scaling, gets ass-whooped and screams "WTF! %#@!ing TR." and then gives us bad PR.

cant tell me this would be one of the most worthwhile things to do tho

generally, i make sure my work will kill as many people as possible if they suck 'that' much

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:38 am

Hey, I've made a few really nasty things for PCs in my time (eg: a big pit in a tomb which landed in a room filled with bonewalkers), but I don't change the rules.