Hammerfell Dock Set

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:52 pm

Hey everyone.
After speaking with Aro I tried my hand at a dock set, and here's the first bunch of models. There's still room for improvement and quite a few pieces that I haven't begun working on, but first I need some feedback.
As a reference, I used the vanilla sidewalks and the dock sets of Anvil and IC, as well as MCHouse01 from TR_Data. The good news as I found out is that such shapes are very flexible, so they can "accept" amost any change without trouble.
Once we slice the meshes into the modulars we want and their shape/size is final, I'll add some more detail and some other statics such as columns, rails and whatever else looks cool and feels nice.

On a last note, you may find that the renders are very smooth. However this is just the chamfer tool doing its fine work. Below the screenies you'll find a description of each mesh along with its polycount.

I've also uploaded the file itself for anyone who would care to take a look. If you have 3DsMax9, please download both of the files and tell me why the obj conversion destroys parts of the meshes (in this case it's the main piece that's damaged, as if some normals are flipped).

[url=http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=docks01ea6.jpg][img]http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/2464/docks01ea6.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=docks02ru5.jpg][img]http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/5039/docks02ru5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=docks03jc3.jpg][img]http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/2218/docks03jc3.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=docks04pj0.jpg][img]http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/7519/docks04pj0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=docks05yn6.jpg][img]http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/8366/docks05yn6.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dockspolyinfojj4.jpg][img]http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/3899/dockspolyinfojj4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Details/Explanations

Main Piece (Blue): That's the piece that will be sliced to provide all
the modulars that are necessary. Current polycount is 2068 (can be reduced a bit by removing the unseen faces and can reach 1400 at the cost of sacrificing the smooth turns).

Steps (Orange): Just small steps to allow consistency when a walkway is attached to the Main Piece. Should also be helpful for the NPCs. Current polycount is 16 (can be reduced to 10).

Walkways (Dark Brown): Unfortunately I had to Boolean these in order to add the archs below them, but there wasn't much harm done (+15 polys at most). Current polycount is 135 (can be reduced a bit by removing the unseen faces).

Walkway Arch (Green): Nothing special about this. Current polycount is 184 (pretty much unreducable).

Big Cylindrical Thing (Grey): Just a modular piece I came up with. Could be cool to put Eyeball's cranes on these. Current polycount is 330 (can be reduced a bit by removing the faces that touch the Walkway).

Half Walkway+Arch (Grey): Just playing around with ideas. Current polycount is 183.

Last and least, the two small pieces in front of the previous. The first (33 faces) is an extension of the Walkway with nothing to support its weight. The second (188 faces) is an End piece and can be used for any walkway piece.

Concluding, the polycount of the whole scene minus the MCHouse is 3756 (when converted to .obj it increased to 5500).

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:13 pm

hella sweet, looks to be just what we needed

. could you add an end piece that is compatible with the half-arch? also, is the blue piece further divided (into various turns and stuff).

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:41 pm

Want.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:30 pm

I'll be brief this time... Ask me for more info, if you will need it. First thing, poly use:
The big cylindrical thing. It's way too blocky, look at it. 10 Sides. If you want it to be blocky like this. Chamfer out those hard edges, cause if you won't do that, this will look not too good ingame.
On the other hand, you used way too much polies on another part. I'm thinking about that rounded part that starts about just over half of the height of the whole thing. The edges are just too dense there. It isn't really so serious. It can stay like that, it could be be done better though

The arches seem fine. But if you want, try using less polies there. Just about 2/3 of the current amount would last.

I really like the design. It fits the game and all that. Good luck on making modular meshes out of this. Because I'd start over, and just take the design... Because I see that it wasn't made as a modular set from the beginning. When I make modulars, I start with big modular blocks. For example, I place a box(512 width, 512 lenght, 512 height) in coordinates x0;y0;z0. That is my base for a modular mesh. Going a different way is always dangerous.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:06 pm

W00t! My first model submission ends up being a decent one! Thanks guys

Lady N: Sure thing. There's plenty of stuff I want to add. Since we'll be using one dock set for the province (or most of it), it's gotta give the ext modders all the freedom they want. Besides, it's fun!

Aro: The cylindrical thing was Lathed, so increasing the segments is only a couple of clicks away (as I said, they're all easy to manipulate).
Now, I was thinking the same thing about the rounded part of the blue (main) piece. It just didn't seem right though, it was way too square-y, so I added some extra polies since there was room for them.
On the other hand, that part will probably be below the waterline, so I can remove the roundness and just flatten it. Dunno yet, but it's easy to fix, since the blue piece was made with a spline and Loft (Loft ru13zzz!!1!).
As for the problems with modularity that you mention in the last paragraph, I don't think we'll encounter any. As I said, the blue piece will be sliced to form turns and such, so when I correct its round part, I'll put it in 0,0,0 and then slice it. There's no way the components won't fit exactly when produced from the same object in that position. The other pieces are pretty much stand-alone ones, so even if they don't respond to Oblivion's grid allignment with perfect precision, turning it off and manually fixing their position will be very easy.
I didn't know you had switched to 3Ds9, so I didn't include the splines I used to make these meshes. If you want, I'll send you a copy of the file including the splines, in case you'd like to correct/test anything by yourself. I believe this could be very helpful.

So, list of things to do - add your own ideas;
1 - Increase the cylindrical piece's sides.
2 - Fix the round part of the main piece's facade.
3 - Add End pieces for all the meshes that don't have one.
4 - Add a lower variation for the main piece and a staircase to go with it.
5 - Add a staircase that goes all the way from the main piece to the water.
6 - Add a couple of connected arch pieces (think of it as a 3-way).
7 - Add columns.
8 - Add some misc stuff, fit for a port.
9 - Add an Akulakhan (must-have).
P.S. I tried to export to .nif and it worked perfectly, I had none of the weird problems that .obj format creates (I now realise what a brilliant piece of code it is!).

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:36 pm

El Scumbago wrote:So, list of things to do - add your own ideas;

I was going to suggest something, but I saw you already thought about it.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:13 pm

I rarely ever use splines, so that won't really change a lot

In fact, I never tried to maky any use of it outside tutorials. I can always take a look anyway...

Oh, and if you're able to make a full set about which no exterior modder will be able to complain about, that will be awesome, cause you would be the second person in the team that could do that

I'm just letting you know, that I would go in a different way, and that fixing "modulars" is pain, and in many cases they have to be remodelled from a scratch, if they aren't working properly.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:11 pm

awesome mate! will you also be doing textures, cause i'd love to help with those.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:54 pm

This thread looks good

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:05 pm

aro101 wrote:I rarely ever use splines, so that won't really change a lot

As I found out, they're the real deal for architecture. Splines and Loft. Seriously!

aro101 wrote:...fixing "modulars" is pain, and in many cases they have to be remodelled from a scratch, if they aren't working properly.

Have no fear!

Lady Nerevar wrote:will you also be doing textures, cause i'd love to help with those.

I don't know a thing about wrapping/unwrapping, so anyone interested in texturing this, is definately welcome.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:29 pm

Lady Nereverar propably wants to help you with searching for photosources and making textures in photoshop. Not with mapping the mesh, because she wasn't able to do such things last time I talked with her about it

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:33 pm

i could probably map a cube if i put my mind to it

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:39 pm

Lol, actually finding an efficient way for mapping cube like shapes costed me a lot more brain usage than mapping far more complicated shapes.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:32 pm

Mapping a plane is twice as hard!