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Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



There was someone who asked where a full Daedric Hide armor set could be found. Right now, the only way is to kill Master Mithras and then get the cuirass from Yashazmus.

It made me think that there could be an armor smith somewhere in Map1 or Map2 that creates them in the same way that you have armor smiths in Tribunal (Adamantium, Ebony, Glass) and Bloodmoon (Bear Hide, Wolf Hide, Stalhrim).

He could make Molecrab armor from molecrab shells, Cephalopod Helm from cephalopod shells, and Daedric Hide armor from daedra skins.

It would give a legit way to obtain this armor, and offer a feature that can be logically expected from an expansion since both Bloodmoon and Tribunal had it.

What do you think?
Post Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:34 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Peterboy
Developer
28 Aug 2006

Location: Hungary

I like it, it's logical and most player would like it Smile
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immortal_pigs
Developer
15 May 2008

Location: Utrecht

I like the idea as well,
though I think there should be separate smiths per type of armor, so there would be 3 smiths that make Cephalopod armor, and 3 smiths that make Molecrab armor. Lastly there would be 1 smith that makes the Deadric Hide armor.

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Lady Nerevar
Developer Emeritus
08 Jun 2004

Location: New Orleans, LA

i like it. maybe tie in the daedric hide smith into the part of the main quest involving daedra?
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Post Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:10 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

I like that idea Smile I suggest releasing it either as a part of the next update, or a 2nd party plugin.
Post Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:14 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



Aeven wrote:
I like that idea Smile I suggest releasing it either as a part of the next update, or a 2nd party plugin.


I wouldn't have made that thread if I didn't want it in the next update. Wink Though it can be done as a plugin for the current version that'll be merged in the next update.
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Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

But I like having armor that is so rare you can't get it easily except by killing neccesary NPCs. How about we just hide a few more pieces on map 2 instead. (and/or have some NPCs wear it that you are supposed to kill)
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Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:08 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nanu
Developer Emeritus
16 Feb 2006

Location: Virginia

How about we do both? Make the set that you get from the armorsmith enchanted with pretty good stuff and make the normal unenchanted stuff have tons of enchant points?
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Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:18 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

That'd be totally cool. Also in an unrelated note, could we add someone who will give you Septims for your smuggled Raw Ebony? I just always pick up several hundred pounds of it while playing, and it gets annoying since it 'belongs to the Empire'. Perhaps TR's own special version of a fence.
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Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:22 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

Nanu Ra wrote:
How about we do both? Make the set that you get from the armorsmith enchanted with pretty good stuff and make the normal unenchanted stuff have tons of enchant points?


because then the set wouldn't be rare.

Sidenote: What kind of special circumstances are required for daedric hide armor smithing. Seems to me like if there was a smith, he/she would have to be associated with a daedric cult, and due to the scarcity of the armor and its usefulness, would only provide services to upper level members.

@Haplo: I always just sold it to random merchants, never bothered me.

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Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

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Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

Its no fun when everything is easily attainable. One of my favorite things about morrowind, and least favorite about oblivion, was the availability of daedric armor. I loved traveling to the ends of the earth and fighting halfway through the berne vampire HQ to get my daedric boots, and getting greaves from that one hlaalu guy's shelf. TR doesn't have all that many rare artifacts hidden in no name dungeons, so why not make the daedric hide armor into something close.
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Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:24 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



Getting it easily? I never said that.

For reference purposes:

Quote:

EBONY ARMORS
Ebony Cuirass: 30 raw ebony and 24500 gold
Ebony Left Pauldron: 21 raw ebony and 16800 gold
Ebony Right Pauldron: 21 raw ebony and 16800 gold
Ebony Left Bracer: 12 raw ebony and 7000 gold
Ebony Right Bracer: 12 raw ebony and 7000 gold
Ebony Greaves: 18 raw ebony and 15400 gold
Ebony Boots: 9 raw ebony and 7000 gold
Ebony Helm: 12 raw ebony and 10500 gold

GLASS ARMORS
Glass Cuirass: 30 raw glass and 19600 gold
Glass Left Pauldron: 21 raw glass and 13400 gold
Glass Right Pauldron: 21 raw glass and 13400 gold
Glass Left Bracer: 12 raw glass and 5600 gold
Glass Right Bracer: 12 raw glass and 5600 gold
Glass Greaves: 18 raw glass and 12300 gold
Glass Boots: 9 raw glass and 5600 gold
Glass Helm: 12 raw glass and 8400 gold

ADAMANTIUM ARMORS
Adamantium Cuirass: 10 adamantium ore and 6000 gold
Adamantium Left Pauldron: 7 adamantium ore and 500 gold
Adamantium Right Pauldron: 7 adamantium ore and 500 gold
Adamantium Left Bracer: 4 adamantium ore and 600 gold
Adamantium Right Bracer: 4 adamantium ore and 600 gold
Adamantium Greaves: 6 adamantium ore and 6000 gold
Adamantium Boots: 3 adamantium ore and 4200 gold
Adamantium Helm: 4 adamantium ore and 3000 gold

SNOW BEAR ARMORS
Snow Bear Cuirass: 5 snow bear pelts and 6000 gold
Snow Bear Left Pauldron: 2 snow bear pelts and 1000 gold
Snow Bear Right Pauldron: 2 snow bear pelts and 1000 gold
Snow Bear Left Gauntlet: 2 snow bear pelts and 1000 gold
Snow Bear Right Gauntlet: 2 snow bear pelts and 1000 gold
Snow Bear Greaves: 4 snow bear pelts and 5000 gold
Snow Bear Boots: 3 snow bear pelts and 3000 gold
Snow Bear Helm: 2 snow bear pelts and 2000 gold

SNOW WOLF ARMORS
Snow Wolf Cuirass: 5 snow wolf pelts and 6000 gold
Snow Wolf Left Pauldron: 2 snow wolf pelts and 1000 gold
Snow Wolf Right Pauldron: 2 snow wolf pelts and 1000 gold
Snow Wolf Left Gauntlet:2 snow wolf pelts and 1000 gold
Snow Wolf Right Gauntlet: 2 snow wolf pelts and 1000 gold
Snow Wolf Greaves: 4 snow wolf pelts and 5000 gold
Snow Wolf Boots: 3 snow wolf pelts and 3000 gold
Snow Wolf Helm: 2 snow wolf pelts and 2000 gold


So what I'm suggesting would be along the lines of:
DAEDRIC HIDE ARMORS
Daedric Hide Cuirass: 25 daedra skins and 3000 gold
Daedric Hide Left Pauldron: 10 daedra skins and 1000 gold
Daedric Hide Right Pauldron: 10 daedra skins and 1000 gold
Daedric Hide Left Gauntlet: 10 daedra skins and 1000 gold
Daedric Hide Right Gauntlet: 10 daedra skins and 1000 gold
Daedric Hide Greaves: 20 daedra skins and 2500 gold
Daedric Hide Boots: 15 daedra skins and 1000 gold

(Prices are based on the armor's current monetary values, which are 3500 for cuirass, 3000 for greaves, 2000 for pauldrons, gauntlets and the pair of boots, and the set doesn't have a helm. Note that daedra skins have a nominal value of 200, and they can't be looted from daedra so you've got to be lucky when opening containers with random ingredients.)

Note that, speaking of values, the daedric hide armor has a rating of 23, which puts it below orcish (30), snow bear (35), adamantium (40 (helm 70)), indoril (45), ice (50), Necrom indoril (50), and royal guard (55). It is above Bonemold (15 to 18) and Bear (15). That's comparing just to the other armors in the medium category. As comparison, the best light is glass (50) and the best heavy is daedric (80).

So, unless it is re-evaluated to be more expensive and more protective, there's no real reason to treat it as being überrare. And even then, you wouldn't be getting it easily.

edited because I hate the 8) smiley. Nobody ever uses it, its only purpose is to wreck coordinates and numbered lists.


Last edited by Gez on Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:26 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
daedren
Developer
25 Nov 2006

Location: "City of the Strong Shield", Resdayn

I get your point, Gez, and perhaps you're right.
But I think it would be really cool if we got a TR armour to be as rare as Daedric, coz that would give... I don't know... more consistency to the expansion (I'm really in favour of TF opinion).

So, you can make it like that, but I think that we should either create a new armour to be as rare as vanilla daedric or an enchanted version of an existing one hidden throughout the maps.

I don't like to get things easily, just like TF. And it would give to TR an even more official expansion feeling.

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Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:56 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nanu
Developer Emeritus
16 Feb 2006

Location: Virginia

My point was that the armor attained off of the NPC would be much more useful because of the lack of enchantment and high enchant value that would hold more than the enchantment you got off the vendor.
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Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Gez, I think you're missing Thrig's point. What he means is that it's cool having armour that the player has to stumble upon and think 'wow, go me! I found a cool rare piece of armour'. Rather than knowing that a full set can just be obtained by going to 'Bob's Armory' with x Gold coins. Takes the fun out of exploration.

But hey, whatever.

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Hemitheon
Reviewer
11 Aug 2006

Location: Necrom, Ra'athim Manor

If you want to add some difficult obtaining it, then there are several ways to go about it:

a. a quest to save the smith first, maybe from being sacrifice at Yashazmus, but then he has stuff to take care of. Or maybe save him from being turned into a vampire. You all are creative think of a quest.

b. Daedric hide armor is made from a particular type of daedra and even then the highest level of that daedra, which can only be found in a few places in Morrowind.

c. the hide must come willingly from the daedroth that is chosen or as a gift from Daedric worshippers.

To make sure of any of these, a special daedric skin ingred would be made, so there's no cheating.
Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Kasan Moor
Developer
23 Oct 2003

Location: Netherlands

This might apply to the daedric skin armor, but I like the idea of the smith creating the molecrab and cephalopod armors. Makes sense. On a side note, I would like to volunteer scripting it in, as I have some experience with it and I have researched how beth has done it for a few projects of my own.
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Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

Just want to add that yeah, the armor rating should be ratcheted up a notch. Perhaps even above glass if it is as rare as I want it, and possibly just below adamantium if it is smithed.
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gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

If there is a smith who can make armour out of daedra skins, they should be a cool-as-fuck character in their own right and not some jobsworth. I mean like proper awesome, because they'd have to have somehow acquired a lot of daedra hides to hone their skills over the years.
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Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

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Post Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:04 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:
Gez, I think you're missing Thrig's point. What he means is that it's cool having armour that the player has to stumble upon and think 'wow, go me! I found a cool rare piece of armour'. Rather than knowing that a full set can just be obtained by going to 'Bob's Armory' with x Gold coins. Takes the fun out of exploration.

But hey, whatever.


I don't miss it, I'm just pointing out that it wouldn't be just going to Bob's armory with x Gold coins. Daedric hides are rare and not that easy to come by (contrarily to pelts and such, they're not dropped by daedra).


And while the daedric hide armor is controversial, nobody objects to having people crafting molecrab, dreugh and cephalopod armor, right?

Hemitheon wrote:
If you want to add some difficult obtaining it, then there are several ways to go about it:

a. a quest to save the smith first, maybe from being sacrifice at Yashazmus, but then he has stuff to take care of. Or maybe save him from being turned into a vampire. You all are creative think of a quest.

b. Daedric hide armor is made from a particular type of daedra and even then the highest level of that daedra, which can only be found in a few places in Morrowind.

c. the hide must come willingly from the daedroth that is chosen or as a gift from Daedric worshippers.

To make sure of any of these, a special daedric skin ingred would be made, so there's no cheating.


#A is not a bad idea. It could be one of the misc quests for Map2. #B and #C, however, I object it on the ground that I'm not very fond of ingredient duplication. No cheating? player->additem TR_a_dae_hide_cuirass 1 is cheating. Grinding alchemy shops and wizards' lairs for daedra skins isn't; if anything it's boring. Again, since the vanilla ingredient is a relatively rare find to begin with, it wouldn't discourage exploration that much since you don't know where to find them.
Post Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:23 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Gez wrote:

I don't miss it, I'm just pointing out that it wouldn't be just going to Bob's armory with x Gold coins. Daedric hides are rare and not that easy to come by (contrarily to pelts and such, they're not dropped by daedra).


It's still kinda the same-ish. I mean, it still takes the fun out of discovering a piece of 'super-rare armour' to know that '10000 gold + 5 Daedra skin' at Bob's armory gives you the same thing for zero effort. (Even though yes technically the stuff is hard to find, the offer is there, and it makes things seem less special)

Gez wrote:

And while the daedric hide armor is controversial, nobody objects to having people crafting molecrab, dreugh and cephalopod armor, right?

Nope, that'd be fine. I say that the smith should also make Netch Leather Armour, and any other 'creature' armour (perhaps chitin, though there's no real 1:1 ingredient), just so that it fits in more seamlessly.

That would be very cool.

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Post Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:13 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Seriously guys, he should be some kind of zen leatherworker who lives up in the mountains on his own and might possibly have clients on both sides of the liminal barrier, you know what i'm saying? There's so much potential for awesomeness and freakiness here. HE MAKES ARMOUR FROM THE SKINS OF DEMONS.
Post Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

I like the idea of having the Daedric Hide armor being rare and NOT smithed by armorers. I agree that TR should have one rare set of armor. Daedric Hide fits the bill pretty well, so unless a new armor set is going to be made... Daedric Hide can be TR's version of Vanilla Daedric.

But I love the idea of the maps having smiths capable of making the player armor after all both the official expansions had the capability...
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theviking
Developer Emeritus
08 Jan 2007

Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands

Hehe, you knows we have daedric cults on map1 and map2, actually every map. They would seem the kind of persons to hand out pieces of daedric skin armor when you rise up a rank. Or walk around in daedric skin armor, and then you have to kill them at some point.
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Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Not full sets. Maybe an enchanted gauntlet or boots or a helmet, but I think there should only be two or maybe three full sets available.
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Chin Music
Developer
26 Aug 2008

Location: Victoria, Australia

It seems a lot of effort to go through for armor which isn't even as tough as Dark Brotherhood gear, which is available pretty much as soon as you start the game.

Or are you planning to bolster its strength?
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Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

it will be bumped up, but really its true value lies in its rarity.

I could see perhaps having one or two pieces as quest rewards, but I don't want the full set to be given to the player through a quest line, I want them to work for it.

Ideally though, I say it should be REALLY bumped up to just below or just above glass levels and made only available single pieces in the most backwoods and inaccessible tombs, caves, and ruins. (added during detailing, not by modders) There could be a single quest in a daedric cult quest line that gives it out, but it would have to be an endgame quest.

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Post Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:17 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Chin Music
Developer
26 Aug 2008

Location: Victoria, Australia

That would work out fine for me because I use a mod to lower the rating of Glass. I think it's overpowered for its rarity considering some shopkeepers can outright sell it to you. If there was one that was harder to get and had some sort of lore reason for its power (being made from Daedra skins) I'd be cool with that.

As opposed to say, Snow Wolf (Regular Wolf too? not sure) armor which is harder to get than Glass but far weaker. It seems to follow that an actual refined, strong metal would be better than any hide unless it was a mystic creature or something.

In that case, a lone leatherworker hermit who lives in some hidden, unknown crook in the mountains would be pretty cool I think. It's made more reasonable by being in that inconspicuous location, seeing as all the other armorsmiths are in main towns. Maybe having dialogue rumours which point in his general direction. There's a lot which could be done with the idea.

Just as a thought: If you wanted only single pieces in backwards dungeons and things, for every place you would have put a piece of armor, add one or more of the "special ingredients" instead. That way it conveys the idea of extreme rarity considering that this particular ingredient is so rare it exists only in very limited quantities, and it also demonstrates how special the armor is by proving that only a very very select few can actually craft it.

If you had enough Daedra skins for one set of armor, plus the pieces that are already in-game, worn by important, possibly essential NPCs, that's a good match for Daedric without actually copying Daedric (multiple essential NPCs instead of 1, and ingredients for a craftsman instead of pieces just dotted through the world).
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Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

single rare ingredients don't have the same feel as a piece of armor, are easily mistaken as sellable trash, and really give in an MMO feel.
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Chin Music
Developer
26 Aug 2008

Location: Victoria, Australia

Yeah that was my only concern, that if armor wasn't right there in front of them the importance of the alternative ingredients would be misjudged.

Still, that's the way things go in Morrowind sometimes. If you accidentally dropped that Daedric piece at the bottom of the ocean you'd better go and kill that essential NPC. Or console yourself another one, whatever.

As for an MMO feel, it's not something which Morrowind does often. You still get everything a person is wearing when they die, they just probably don't happen to be wearing some unbelievably rare super-armor.

And also, there is somewhat of a solution to people not knowing their true worth. Make their value so high that no vendor could afford it at normal price. If the items served no other purpose, it would clue people in that they were special somehow. I'd like to think that TR doesn't do anything without good reason.
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Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I want you guys to know that this isn't "Daedra Lord's Skin Armor", its Daedric Hide Armor. So it can be any daedra, like a scamp. And it's not that hard to kill a scamp. So while it is rare due to you having to kill enough daedra to get enough of the hide, then it has to be cured a certain way and stained and all that good stuff, so people who know how to do it will be master craftsmen, and it is a luxury good more than a usable item. I would much rather have Dreugh armor than Daedra Hide when it comes down to effectiveness and protection. So it will remain relatively modest in its protective capabilities, though I am going to raise them a bit. It's not meant to be very strong.

Also a note of interest: Daedric Hide armor used to be Daedroth Hide armor, but I decided to change it to Daedric Hide to make it a little more feasible of having a whole armor set for it; rather than having to use one specific type of Daedra's skin, you can use any Daedra's.

All that being said, a lot of the set's value is just in how badass it looks when you wear it.

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Post Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Andres Indoril
Senior Developer
13 Jan 2006

Location: Lost.... Somewhere?

Perhaps you could make it have equal armor rating to glass, but less health and weight than glass has? Like dreugh is to adamantium (Except for the fact that Dreugh is heavier and has more health than Adamantium....)
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Post Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Zalzidrax
Developer
03 Dec 2003

Location: Bothell, WA

I'd imagine hide armor would be somewhat bulkier than glass though... I dunno. I guess real glass really isn't all that light.

I think that an armor maker would be cool, but it wouldn't involve some joe schmoe standing around that you just stumble on then hand stuff to. It should be some cool secret badass dude who has hunted daedra for ages, who you have to explore to find, and who you have to go on some sort of exciting adventure to earn the person's respect so that they'd be willing to make armor for you. That way you have the sense of exploration, a guy who makes armor, and a story and character that make the world seem more itneresting and alive.
Post Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:24 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I've upgraded Daedric Hide's stats somewhat; it now weighs less and has an AC of 25.
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Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:10 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



If the best light is 50 and the best heavy is 80, the best medium should be 65.

If you reduced the weight, is it now light?
Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:07 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

wasn't it light in the first place?
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Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

It was already light armor, and its AC was 23 per piece. I reduced the weight a little bit for most of the objects (hide-armor gloves should weigh less than 4 pounds), and added 2 AC points to each piece.
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Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Taking a look at the TR_Data I have, TR has the following full (or "filled") armour sets:

1. Bearskin. Not exactly expensive, though it might be rare. This could be crafted with existing materials.
2. Daedric Hide armour: an amateur cultist's gear. While Daedra Hide would be the obvious material, Scamp Skin would also technically work, as has already been said.
3. Dres, Indoril and Necrom armour. All worn by guards and pretty common, if hard to get at. These probably shouldn't be craftable.
4. Dreugh: not sure how much appears in Map 1/2 so far, but it's good and rare. There's plenty of helms, shields and cuirasses on the Vvardenfell, though. Not craftable, really; you can't harvest Dreugh shells.
5. Variations of Iron armour: the shiny one might work as a rare armour, but not really. These could be craftable. (Though if anything only the shiny one should be. Who'd craft rusty armour?)
6. Molecrab: fairly common, I think, and used by Telvanni guards. Can be crafted.
7. Nordic Iron: pretty much the same as Dreugh: good, probably rare, is slightly common on Vvardenfell, though. Could be crafted, if you simply go with iron as the crafting material.

Obviously, I'm just guessing the rarities. Almost all of them could technically be craftable. Personally, Dreugh sounds like a good option for a rare armour, and Iron sounds like a good second. (It's also marginally rarer on Vvardenfell). I'd use one of those, personally.
Post Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:29 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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