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Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

I don't think there's a problem with creating five seperate crabs. Can't think of one, anyway.

I suppose untimely crab deaths are unhelpful, but if you just set the crabs to respawn, then you could work around that. (It'd probably be less trouble than all the respawning if the player kills the 'one supercrab')

But I don't really know. As long as you get the job done, it looks professional and is fun and easy to play, that's fine by me.

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Post Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:50 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

There's no problem with creating 5 new types of crab, but it just seems messy to me. Like using global scripts and variables.

Anyway, enough of that. I've downloaded your new Map1.esp and wandered around resting a lot in about 10 random places. The only places I could recreate the crash/freeze were
-twice on the Alendu Plantation (on my 2nd and 5th attempt to rest)
-one in Molagreahd Region (19,22) (on my 5th attempt to rest)

I rested in the other places 10 successive times without the freeze occurring.


Also, I have a problem now with this quest - the beach Mudlap was standing on is no longer there in your new esp file. I'm glad I found that out today.. Confused
Post Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:21 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Multiple new objects is no problem. Global variables and the like are, because the game constantly processes them, so if they all start to add up, it can create performance issues. Not so with unique objects - have as many as you want. Smile

Re: the beach, I didn't know about the change, sorry. Sad One of our exteriorer guys went through Map 1 and made some improvements to previously poor quality bits of exterior. I guess he must have gone for the beach as well.

If necessary, we can recreate the beach for when this file is merged, or Mudlap can be moved. Your call. Smile

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:16 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

I had a wander around looking for a better position. How about (43,20) - Telvanni Isles Region? Not too far from Port Telvannis and there's not much in those cells. I thought the Mosslog could be moved to a pool in the Sadas Plantation.
Post Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:40 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
theviking
Developer Emeritus
08 Jan 2007

Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands

There are no quests taking place there, so that's fine. Creating 5 different crabs is good too, contrary to what you said, I believe it would make the quest more structured.
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Post Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:55 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

I don't mean to be difficult, but it works perfectly as it is. Changing it to the 5 crab situation means rewriting all the scripts (and retesting it all) for no real benefit.

5 crabs advantages:
- can collect crabs in any order if you know which ones they are (i.e. if you reloaded or checked in the CS)

Supercrab advantages:
- the quest is slightly different on replay
- don't have to wait for natural respawn if you kill them

I personally like the idea of the player not being able to second guess the quest, but I guess it's up to you.
Post Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Silvone Elestahr
Developer
06 Oct 2003

Location: Pelagiad

Awesome! I was rather disappointed when I read that my quest most likely was not going to make it in. I'm glad to see it revived Smile And I like what you've done with it. A lot of those changes were certainly needed.

About the Final Hint: Yes, that was the tie in for a sequel...or a series of sequels. I wanted one weird quest like this one for every map, but I kind of lost inspiration. It seems you've already taken it out, so there is no need for me to tell you to.

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Post Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:42 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

Silvone Elestahr wrote:
About the Final Hint: Yes, that was the tie in for a sequel...or a series of sequels. I wanted one weird quest like this one for every map, but I kind of lost inspiration. It seems you've already taken it out, so there is no need for me to tell you to.

Oh, it's still in there, just re-worded slightly. I think it would be interesting to have a sequel quest - I'd be happy to put one together if it doesn't already exist.
Post Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:34 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
theviking
Developer Emeritus
08 Jan 2007

Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands

Oh sorry, i didn't understand that you moved to another solution already. Well, fine by me.
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Post Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

Ok, the quest is complete and has been tested lots. It now needs someone else's perspective, so I'd be super grateful if someone could give it a play test. The main points I'm concerned with are:

- Is the Mosslog too hard to find?
- Comments on the crab collecting

Of course comments on anything else are much appreciated. Try talking to people out of sequence and doing anything that might seem stupid or irrational - I've tried to cover most of it.

Note: most things are self explanatory, but if you hadn't read the brief, it might not be obvious that you can report Mudlap at a certain point (just talk to a guard in PT).

Oh, and here's the ReadMe. If you're wondering why I've added all these normal mudcrabs, it's to ensure that the collectable mudcrabs aren't out of place. They have no actual bearing on the quest whatsoever.


ReadMe:

The quest starts in cell (43,20) - Telvanni Isles Region, by talking to Mudlap.


The following have been modified in this quest:

cells:
Sadas Plantation (36,17) - Mosslog
Telvanni Isles Region (42,19) - 1 mudcrab
Telvanni Isles Region (43,21) - supercrab, mudcrab
Telvanni Isles Region (43,20) - Mudlap, 2 attack crabs, fire pit
Telvanni Isles Region (44,21) - 2 mudcrabs
Telvanni Isles Region (42,21) - 1 mudcrab
Telvanni Isles Region (42,20) - 3 mudcrabs


objects:
TR_w_Mosslog-uni (weapon - modified)
TR_m1_q_57_FeatherSpear (misc - created)
TR_m1_q_57_SuperCrab (creature - created)
TR_m1_q_57_AttackCrab (creature - created)
TR_m1_q_57_Mudlap (npc - created)
TR_m1_q_57_MudlapNote (book - created)
TR_Mosslog_enchant (enchantment - modified)


scripts:
TR_m1_q_57_SuperCrabScript
TR_m1_q_57_AttackCrabScript
TR_m1_q_57_MudlapTimer (global)
TR_m1_q_57_MudlapScript


journals:
TR_m1_wil_MudlapMosslog


topics:
greeting 1
greeting 5
mudlap
mosslog
feather spear
latest rumours


Last edited by MMMowSkwoz on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:42 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

I've just noticed there is already a TR_w_mosslog and TR_mosslog_enchant in TR_Data. I really should have seen that earlier, sorry. Can this be deleted, or do you want me to change all my references to these ones?
Post Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:32 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Do whatever makes sense. I think the original Map 1 .esm contains a duplicate, so it can't be that problematic.
_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:46 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



Use the existing ones.
Post Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

Ok, I've changed it to the existing ones, although I had to modify both the mosslog and its enchantment. I also removed the script disabling the mosslog until the quest starts because it was pointless. New file uploaded. I'll edit my previous post to fit.

If someone could playtest this sometime, it would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Post Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:00 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

I just uploaded a newer version with some very very minor things changed. Nothing important, just me being picky with positioning mudcrabs and editing a tiny section of script. Can you tell I'm itching to get working on a new claim? Go Map2 go!

Maybe that's a bit premature though. What's the usual protocol at this stage? Does it sit here and get tested by someone before it goes to review? I've tested the hell out of it and it really needs someone else's perspective now.
Post Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

It just gets tested by whoever has the time. Unlike ints and exts, you don't need quite the same level of expertise to test a quest, just an understanding of the English language.

The quest reviewing part is the clunkiest and most confusing part of the system, and partly what slowed up the release of Map 1 until I, Osiris and JennaK (with vital help from Viking and Theo) got round to doing a proper review on all quests.

But it will get done, and as long as you're happy with it, you're free to move to another claim.

I don't know what the plan with moving it to Reviewing is, because if that happens then only reviewers (int style reviewers, that is; although I am in the usergroup) can see it, which limits the options for who can test it.

But it will get done. It is very nice to see you working so efficiently!

Once I have the time, I'll give a check over to all quests that are finished, (or in need of testing) as I told Faalen, I think.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:54 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Okay, here's the review:

On giving the Mosslog, Mudlap says "I must now another task of you..." - needs 'ask'

When you go to buy the Feather Spear, no one tells you who Llathros Edri is. Make Mudlap tell you he's the pawnbroker.

The charge/cost ratio of the Mosslog needs serious improvement. Up its charge, lower its cost. As it stands you get about 3 uses if you're not a person with high enchant (and most people aren't). I'd say about 4 or 5 uses would be necessary, minimum.

I would also add a tiny Fortify Speed effect to the enchantment as well. Razz (I know you've upped the crabs speed some, but not quite enough) If you really don't want to, though, you're probably okay.

When the supercrab is killed and resurrected, make sure to StopCombat Player it, otherwise battle music continues confusingly (if you don't know the scripts).

When a crab has been delivered successfully or killed, make the Feather Spear say something like 'The Feather Spear vibrates in your hands as it locates a new target.' otherwise it's hard to know it's directing you to a new crab, rather than the one you just delivered/killed.

The 300 gold reward from Renim is a bit excessive. No more than 100 - probably less. I think he could also be a bit more incredulous about the whole thing.

And I'm still not sure about the hint to a Thieves Guild follow up. I just can't see that happening. Unless you have any ideas?


Otherwise, perfect. Great stuff. Smile

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:
The charge/cost ratio of the Mosslog needs serious improvement. Up its charge, lower its cost. As it stands you get about 3 uses if you're not a person with high enchant (and most people aren't). I'd say about 4 or 5 uses would be necessary, minimum.

Not sure what happened there. I was able to get about 8 charges out of it. Maybe it was overwritten by a newer version of TR_Data? I'll check it anyway.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:
When the supercrab is killed and resurrected, make sure to StopCombat Player it, otherwise battle music continues confusingly (if you don't know the scripts).

Eeek. I blame my girlfriend for this Razz. Most of the testing happened when she was in here working, so I had the sound off. Will fix it.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:
And I'm still not sure about the hint to a Thieves Guild follow up. I just can't see that happening. Unless you have any ideas?

No, it can go.

I'll get all those changes fixed asap. About to head off to see the family for Crimble so will get on it when I get back.

Cheers for all the testing BC Smile

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Post Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

With the enchanting thing, I think it's affected by your own Enchant skill. So someone with 5 or 10 (most characters) needs to be tested with, to ensure they get it working alright.

EDIT: Heretical typo burnt.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"


Last edited by Bloodthirsty Crustacean on Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

MMMowSkwoz wrote:

Eeek. I blame my girlfriend for this Razz. Most of the testing happened when she was in here working, so I had the sound off. Will fix it.


I'm telling!

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Post Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

Ok, I finally got around to fixing this. Sorry about the delay - life has been eventful recently.

Anyway, all the fixes have been done, but there's a small issue: the mosslog enchantment is part of TR_Data, not TR_map1. Thus if I change it in my .esp and that is then merged with TR_map1, the change will be overwritten when a later version of TR_Data is released (I think this is what happened when you tested it, BC). The way around this is to change the mosslog enchantment in the TR_Data file, so I've made a tiny .esp with that one change. Hopefully Hap can merge that with TR_Data and update it and then I can make my final .esp dependent on that new TR_Data. Is that ok? I'll post it up in the TR_Data updates thread anyhow.

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Post Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
theviking
Developer Emeritus
08 Jan 2007

Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands

Cool, I'll send this to reviewing.
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Reviews: more then 250!
Quest Reviews: 3
NPC claims: 2

Currently looking for quest designers.
Post Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



Sending it back.

MMMowSkwoz wrote:
Any chance you could move q1-57-Mis out of Reviewing and back into Claimed? Viking has moved it and I haven't uploaded the new file yet (my fault, I didn't make it clear). I can't post in Reviewing.
Post Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:38 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
MMMowSkwoz
Developer
27 Oct 2008

Location: London

Cheers Gez

Ok, corrected version uploaded. Use with the version of TR_Data posted on 17/01/09 by Haplo (found here).

I guess it can go back to review now. Sorry for the confusion.

***Edited because I forgot to clean the file. Done now. Use version 7***

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