House Indoril

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:07 am

For discussion of the House Indoril and the attitude and character of its major members, as well as the general direction of its factionquest and its relations with the other Houses

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:14 am

To start off, we need to get a list of all the settlements, figure out which will be a base for quests.

List copied from the thread in L&Q. I do not know how complete this list is:
Almalexia
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?picture=Almalexia%204.PNG&p=screenshots&gallery=3
Area and Location: East of Gah Ruhn, south of Merelag.
Size: Very Huge, 200 interiors.
Economy: Services, Trade, Farming.
Ruler: Grand Ascendant Neril Sevuro.
Architecture: Indoril.
Special Function: Indoril Capital, home to the Grand Council and Capital of the Province of Morrowind.

I would imagine that apart from the house HQ (could I get an interior ID for this? Anyone know?) you could probably also get quests from the councilors themselves scattered throughout the city. Quests here would probably be mundane errands for the councilors, running around the city a few times before moving on. Plot advancement here would be slow at first, perhaps with slight references that the player could look back on later and say "OH! THATS why I did that!" After the initial errand batch, the player would be sent off elsewhere. Councilor quests should probably be one shots unless it is for a councilor we decide is a main player.

Ayemar
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/4135/ayemaruj1.png
Area and Location: Mountainous. Far south of Marog, south-west of Tel Muthada.
Size: Medium, few interiors, large exterior.
Economy: None
Ruler: A General.
Architecture:
Special Function: Indoril Fortress.

The quests here would have to deal with undermining the telvanni and supporting the temple behind telvanni lines. I would like to see a quest at some point where you aid the priest in Tel Mothrivra. It could parallel a telvanni quest where you kill him. Another idea would be to work with the imperials in cleaning up that hyper corrupt fort in the area (windmoth?) All in all, very anti-telvanni

Akamora
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?picture=Akamora.jpg&p=screenshots&gallery=2
Area and Location: Mountainous. Far west of Necrom, south-west of Fort Windmoth.
Size: Large, 24 interiors.
Economy: Egg Mine based.
Ruler: Lord Novas Senim.
Architecture: Indoril.
Special Function: Unique design.

I don't know, its large enough that it should have something, but I can't think of anything.

Bosmora
Area and Location: Built in and around a forest. East of Almalexia, west of Gorne.
Size: Smedium, 10 Interiors.
Economy: Mining based.
Ruler: Unknown
Architecture: Indoril.

Must have something to do with the dres, if anything at all.

Darnim Watch
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?picture=m3_darnim_watch_08.jpg&p=screenshots&gallery=3
Area and Location: Along the coast, surrounded by swamps. North-West of Merelag.
Size: Medium, 14 Interiors.
Economy: Fishing and Trade.
Ruler: Unknown
Architecture: Dunmer Shacks.
Special: There's a mining door leading to a tree.

Maybe a stand alone quest.

Dondril
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?picture=Dondril%201.jpg&p=screenshots&gallery=3
Area and Location: Both mountainous and flat. Along the southern road towards Old Ebonheart.
Size: Medium, 15 Interiors.
Economy: Trade and Services based.
Ruler: Unknown
Architecture: Dunmer Shacks and a palisade.
Special: Has a palisade and has the second-highest (970) reference count of all exteriors, next to Old Ebonheart.

Maybe a stand alone quest or two, maybe something involving OE later on.

Dreynim
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?picture=Dreynim%20Spa.jpg&p=screenshots&gallery=3
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?picture=Dreynim.jpg&p=screenshots&gallery=3
Area and Location: mountainous, a river, plains to the east. East of Merelag, north-east of Almalexia.
Size: Large, 17 Interiors.
Economy: Services [the spa], farming and ship-building.
Ruler: Unknown
Architecture: Indoril and Dunmer Shacks.
Special Function: Building ships, providing luxury services to rich Nobles.

two or three quests where an asshole treats you like shit and makes you get luxury items and please nobles. (could be fun)

Enamor Dayn
Area and Location: Rocky. West of the Isle of Gorne, north-east of Bosmora.
Size: Very Small, 5 Interiors.
Economy: Unknown
Ruler: Unknown
Architecture: Indoril.

Nothing

Othrensis
Area and Location: Plains, Lowlands and a River. West of Almalexia.
Size: Very Large, 38 Interiors.
Economy: Likely services and trade based.
Ruler: Lord Dralas Therayn
Architecture: Mixture of Velothi and Indoril.
Special: Othrensis has a mages guild.

Quest hub. If Kogo Amirah gets switched to dres, then this should have quests related to them. If it doesn't then I don't know, maybe something charitably based.

Gorne
Area and Location: An Island. East of Bosmora and Enamor Dayn.
Size: Small, 11 Interiors.
Economy: Likely trade and services.
Ruler: Sandil Family.
Architecture: Indoril.
Special: There's a flower shop.

This has to have some sort of quest, just because it looks so nice and was in the poison song series. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing this as a major quest hub, even though it isn't very big.

Hlersis
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6727/hlersis2us8.jpg
Area and Location: Underground. South of Fort Windmoth.
Size: Medium.
Economy: Bloat Spore Mining.
Ruler: Most likely the ruler of Akamora.
Architecture:

none

Merelag
Area and Location: a river to the south, otherwise surrounded by mountains. North of Almalexia, west of Dreynim.
Size: Small, 10 Interiors.
Economy: Mercantile Based.
Ruler: Unknown
Architecture: Indoril and two Dunmer Shacks.
Special Function: A place for rich merchants and landowners to settle, away from the busy Almalexia.

A quest or two

Rouaf Duhr
Area and Location: Rocky, many pools. East of the River Thirr.
Size: Large, 20 Interiors.
Economy: Likely River Thirr based.
Ruler: Lady Somia Llerian.
Architecture: Indoril and Dunmer Shacks.

On map 4 IIRC

Sailen
Area and Location: Mountainous. Near Fort Umbermoth, south-west of Necrom.
Size: Small, 11 Interiors.
Economy: Farming and Trade.
Ruler: Lord Veradul Deakrin.
Architecture: Mixture of Velothi and Indoril.

Quests could involve gaining an inside man in Umbermoth, and helping rank that person up until they are relevant. Perhaps the inside man is assigned quests like the player normally would, and you have to aid them. Could be interesting. Possible alternate line for those already in the ML legion.

Seyda Vano
Area and Location: Along the northern coast, between swamplands and ash mountains. Far east of Old Ebonheart.
Size: Very Small, 4 Interiors.
Economy: None
Ruler: The player.
Architecture: Indoril.
Special Function: Will be built for the player as a fortress, if the player chooses House Indoril.

Obligatory Stronghold quests, probably handled elsewhere.

Questions to answer:
1: Join anywhere, or just in almalexia.
2: Key overarching plot line
3: Which cities should actually have quests, and what should they be.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:58 pm

Note that we have already established (in map1 quests) that the Indoril are looking to finance some evangelising and church-building in Telvanni lands. It might be nice to establish one of the Indoril lords as being behind this. He/she could be a financer of missionary work to enhance the faith of the dunmer, etc.

This lord would be perfect to come into conflict with Lord Vaerin the antitheist Telvanni lord. Their zeal to conver the Telvanni could mess with diplomatic relations, etc.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:07 pm

Lud wrote:This lord would be perfect to come into conflict with Lord Vaerin the antitheist Telvanni lord. Their zeal to conver the Telvanni could mess with diplomatic relations, etc.

I take it that in this case "antitheist" is to be read as being against intervention by the Temple, rather than a version of atheism? I am just asking because I sincerely doubt that the Telvanni on the whole doubt the power and/or existence of the Triunes.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:49 pm

Adanorcil wrote:
Lud wrote:This lord would be perfect to come into conflict with Lord Vaerin the antitheist Telvanni lord. Their zeal to conver the Telvanni could mess with diplomatic relations, etc.
I take it that in this case "antitheist" is to be read as being against intervention by the Temple, rather than a version of atheism? I am just asking because I sincerely doubt that the Telvanni on the whole doubt the power and/or existence of the Triunes.

Yeah, that's what I meant, apologies for the confusion.

theviking · Post by **theviking** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:14 pm

Sailen Vulgate (maybe the old name) would be perfect for this. It has a temple and a priests college, it is also very close to Necrom. The Indoril lord isn't going to be very influentally, but enlarging the temple should give him more prestige among his fellow Indoril.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:05 pm

Seems like akamora and ayemar would be the best cities to deal with telvanni matters. Sailen is behind the front lines and situated by an imperial fort.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:21 pm

Sailen being behind the front lines is exactly what makes it perfect as a location for an overzealous temple-expander. This way he creates loads of havoc for the lord of Ayemar & Akamora by constantly pissing off the Telvanni, but the lords of these places can't (or won't) complain because he is, after all, doing the work of the Tribunal. So the Akamora guy can be the diplomatic bridge-builder who is constantly foiled by the blundering missionary dude.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:35 pm

although I see your point, I would like to say that I can't imagine there would be too much effort for bridge building. Even when friendly, the Telvanni are not good neighbors. Imagine Richard Dawkins lived next to Pat Robertson. Even if they could be convinced to tolerate the other's existence, they would never be best buds or do anything together.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:23 am

The Akamora guy doesn't need to try to be on great terms with the Telvanni. Simply keeping the status quo ought to be enough, and he would realize that the Sailen missionary guy is stirring things up using the Temple. In other words the Akamora lord would try to fix what he sees as the zealous blundering mistakes of the missionary in Sailen Vulgate.

theviking · Post by **theviking** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:21 pm

Another plot hook I want to enter in this discussion is the competition over the eggmines in Akamora. There are about 4 wealthy families in the town who all own an eggmine. They all compete between themselves over who has the most power and wealth. The Akamora lord probably is pretty busy with managing this power struggle. That is why he probably hasn't that much time to invest in diplomacy with the Telvanni. I see the Telvanni-Indoril border as conservative.
The Ayemar lord is happy to defend his fort, but can't make a fist against the Telvanni. The Akamora lord is busy with his power struggle and is very happy if he can keep the same amount of land. The Telvanni are isolationist to the core and the imperials simply want to keep peace. The only possible breakers of this status quo are the Indoril lord of Sailen Vulgate who wants to gain prestige by spreading the Temple. And Llevari Telsaran, the wizard of Tel Muthada, who is brutally ambitious and will take any opportunity to show off to her fellow Telvanni. If we want a border struggle between two houses, try Hlaalu and Redoran or Hlaalu and Indoril.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:32 pm

These things all seem a bit localised.

Although I'm always crap for ideas, I'd suggest working from the top down (what is House Indoril? who are the rulers? where do they live? what's happening there?) rather than the bottom up, starting with individual quests and their implications (which is the current way of doing things).

That was the purpose of Sload's Goals post, to remedy the lack of such 'overall planning' in TR.

gro-Dhal · Post by **gro-Dhal** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:59 pm

What sounds a bit wanky but might be quite useful would be if we could draw up a list of key words or themes associated with the Indoril, to focus people on what sort of qualities any characters or questlines need to play off. Things like:

-Piety
-Honour
-Orthodoxy
-Xenophobia
-Tradition

Except a better list with suggestions from people who actually know what they're talking about, which I do not.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:58 pm

When you join House Indoril and they give you the list of traits they look for make sure Xenophobia isn't included though

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:06 am

Indoril Characters -

Whereas the Hlaalu make most of their money from trade, and the Dres mostly own plantations directly, the Indoril have a manorial economic system, with powerful members of the House holding enormous amounts of land, on which live peasants who are required to pay some sort of tribute to their masters. I am considering whether councilors from the city should have land in the country or actually own parts of Almalexia.

Whatever the case, this situation is not overtly discussed; maps should not be drawn up figuring out who owns what, NPCs should not mention it off hand, this system is in the background. I just don't want to see all the NPCs of Ipsumtown saying that they have such and such lord unless its quest related, this isn't something that needs to be shown.

The member of the council with the most land is a man who lives in a private estate in the Thirr. He owns the majority of the Thirr's right bank below the Andaram, making him influential of course - but not as influential as he could be, because he is rather disliked. He is a militant hardliner, in any deliberation about reacting to Hlaalu advances, his position is to crush them. That's his position pretty much all the time, actually.

Most councilors with manors outside the city have them in the Lan Orethan, previously known as the Emerald Forest, and those that do form a sort of clique. The militant councilor is treated with some disdain, though his lineage is as excellent as theirs, he is just not right, is he? They are generally more reasonable than he is, and see that attacking the Hlaalu would end very poorly for the Indoril.

The Alma Rula, while not a member of the House Indoril, is often involved in its politics, usually as a mediator between its factions. He is biased in the Indoril's favor when it comes to inter-house relations, but is most interested in a solution which makes a full out house war as unlikely as possible.

The upper level quest should involve the tense relations with Hlaalu and the potential house war, as well as attempts to regain control of Thirr trade.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:58 am

I could see the indoril split between 2 factions, pacifists and war mongers. I think there needs to be more than just Mr. Thirr on the warmonger side. I would like to see the player given two options in the quest progression, siding with these factions. I don't want this to be black and white though, I want the player to have the chance to be wishy washy. I also want this to play out horribly. Here is what I could see happening with each:

Warmonger- Quests are harder, and can end badly. If too many end badly then we go to bad end. Otherwise we go to good end.

Pacifist- Quests are generally easier, and have less of a chance of going bad. Takes more failure to get to bad end, but still possible. Best end is the normal end

Wishy Washy- Does quests for both factions. It should be hinted strongly, or explicitly stated that the player can't have their cake and eat it too. Bad end guaranteed, with chance for VERY bad end.

Endings:

Good End- Indoril gains control of Thirr river trade, borders are stronger, possible change in thirr (maybe give a manor to an indoril noble)

Medicore end- Everything stays the same, player should feel as though they averted a terrible war so they still get that feeling of accomplishment.

Bad end- Hlaalu gain full control of the Thirr river, borders weaken. Possible Hlaalu manor in almas Thirr

VERY bad end- Thirr to Hlaalu, Almas Thirr to Hlaalu, Ayemar to Telvanni (imagine how cool that would look). If we got some small start on a dres set, maybe we could even see a little bit of dresification on the south.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:49 pm

I like the idea of actually making the territorial games dynamic. Something more than just dialogue that you can see rival factions building on your former territory. If it could be implemented it would add a great effect.

One thing though:

1. There should be a kind of silver lining to the bad endings. Otherwise how could House Indoril elect as its leader the idiot who totally screwed the house over? It would effectively lock the player out of the higher ranks in the faction.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:09 pm

I figured the player would hit leader shortly before the endgame, either that or it would be blamed on the faction heads and the player elected to fill the void. I prefer the first idea though.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:25 pm

It might be considered that nobody gets elected leader as the house is thrown into a state of confusion and disarray.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:32 pm

or perhaps in their confusion they grab the first authority figure they see (player of course)

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:52 pm

The point would still be that if you go down the bad path then House Indoril basically goes into convulsions. You have those first set of choices leading to another set of choices: do you walk away and try to distance yourself from the chaos (essentially bringing the questline to an undignified halt), or do you try and fill the void? Some members will obviously be looking for a new authority figure to lead them out of such a mess. I think you can continue the questline from there, or leave it as a "we hope you can restore Indoril's former greatness as our new Grand Poobah" or some such bit of vague hinting-at-the-future dialogue. Obviously the choice to step in should be left open so the player can continue any time they feel ready. You can actually just step away and leave it if you really want, but the further option should always remain hanging there.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:25 pm

It should be kept in mind that the indoril are doomed regardless, Good end lets them regain some former glory on the way out, medium end keeps the decline steady, and bad end speeds it up.

I increasingly think that the player should become the head of the house before the end game, and that the end game quest should follow immediately from that promotion. I pictured a quest where you are told that you need to get to almas thirr ASAP. (I.E. within the next 3 days, failure to attend leads to bad end) Once there you go through dialog options that lead to the conclusion. Options available would vary based on the quests done up until that point. I picture the player standing on one side of the almas Thirr plaza, a few indoril behind them, and a hlaalu lord on the other side backed up by a few of his subordinates. Ordinators in the middle to keep violence from breaking out. You and the hlaalu lord talk it out and the following happens for each end:

Good End: Hlaalu subordinate fires on one of your subordinates, brawl breaks out. Player wins control of thirr river trade and an indoril noble moves to almas thirr (with a room for the player).

Normal End: Player talks the other side down and relations normalize. No change in almas thirr or thirr river trade.

Bad End: Hlaalu noble bashes the indoril to hell until one of your subordinates fires on a hlaalu subordinate. Ordinators and Hlaalu kill your subordinates, from there it is essentially the opposite of the good end

VERY Bad End: Same as bad end only you join in the fight as well. Player probably kills the ordinators. Apart from getting a bounty, the angered temple officials ban the indoril from almas thirr, Thirr trade goes to hlaalu, weakened relations with the temple lead to weakened positions elsewhere. House indoril is forced to buy back the temple's good favor, in the process selling the fortress of ayemar to a young telvanni lord.

It may not seem reasonable for the temple to react so strongly, but keep in mind that the new head of the house killed 2 ordinators meant to mediate discussions in the plaza of a neutral city.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:24 pm

I don't really like the idea of buying the Temple's support with, basically, a large bribe. Indoril may be weak but they are still proud. The major difference I'm seeing between the two sides of the questline would be: one side takes that pride to a level of hubris that accelerates the decline of Indoril. Basically taking a hard line, not willing to negotiate or come to compromises. The other line is more willing to talk rather than fight, and is willing to swallow their pride and make compromises.

With your showdown between the Hlaalu and the Indoril. The hardliners will have no choice but to turn down any terms offered by the Hlaalu, saying in so many words "make me". This leads to a fight. I'd rather not actually fight at the little parley here. Battles aren't really possible in Morrowind. You could have a fight, or just have Hlaalu take over the town, showing how helpless Indoril really is. Other than that it ought to be diplomacy and pretty straightforward. The results differ on how you handle the situation and how you approached the previous quest. If you were a total ass though you'd have these negotiation options closed, forcing you to act as you had before, to the detriment of your house which will not become clearly evident.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:37 pm

This is again getting quite quest specific. No problem with that, and it's not like I really have anything to say right now, but the most practical thing to do right now is to get a sense of who the Indoril are, who are the key characters etc. so that Map 3 NPCing can be done with quality and an overall goal/'motif' in mind. Actual quests for House Indoril are a lot-lot further away.

Just in a vain attempt to be helpful, the two Indoril locales that I know are NPCed are Ayemar and Akamora. Ayemar is just a fairly 'standard' fort at present, with the current boss-man being an ex-Ordinator warrior guy, Tavrene Indalas, fairly nondescript. Do we want to perhaps add some more flavour to this place/edit dialogue (we might not want to)

Akamora has this slightly weird set-up that IP came up with when NPCing the place, where there are multiple important lords there all running 'mafia style' organisations rivaling over their respective eggmines. Is this still seen as what we want Akamora to be? I've personally never been the hugest fan of that set-up, and I don't know if it was anything more than just 'IP's decision', which is what this whole discussion is meant to be about 'avoiding' in the sense that there should be a greater goal, rather than just any modder doing whatever they want with a place. (And correct me if I'm wrong)

As extreme basics, some useful facts to know would be 'how many Councillors are there'? 'Where do they all live'? 'What are all their names'? 'What (if any) notable characteristics or worldviews do they have?'

Then we can from those and suchlike foundations get back into the nitty gritty of specific questlines and details, once we know what we're actually looking at and aiming for. Sload's given us a very nice rough sketch to work from in his latest post, and I think it needs 'filling in' rather than 'building on'. (Sorry if that's not something Sload desires or intends)

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:42 pm

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:This is again getting quite quest specific.

Yes, which is not what these threads are for. They're for creating the actors who will be used for the quest, not the quest itself. For this reason I did not include my impression of my conversation with TF about the quest in my post, and I cannot say I agree with the entirety of his post either.

Now let's please only talk about "the attitude and character of its major members, as well as the general direction of its factionquest and its relations with the other Houses." Also its settlements will be fine.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:48 pm

Then lets get that basic bit of information, how many councilors we want. A good place to start is to see how many manors we have now in almalexia, the various other cities, and that manor filled forest thingy out east. Then we can change from there. Also, we need to move one to, or add one near the Thirr.

I've heard no objections to the pacifist warmonger direction, so I will assume this is the plan.

Edit: I don't like that plan for akamora, it isn't that important I wouldn't think.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:06 am

I would say 9, 10, or 12 councillors. not all powerful indoril need to be on the council.

akamora could work but i need more info. ill look it up. drop the mafia bit, but there's one councillor among them and the other families want to replace him or her on the council.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:53 pm

I like 9, its a good number for a council.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:58 pm

Okay, 9 is a good number.

I think the next most important step is locations. I'm not the biggest knowledge guy when it comes to Map 3, and which ints and exts have been designed with lords in mind, so we need to get a list of the 9 councilors' locations.

Then we can do names and worldviews.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:14 pm

what if the head of the house was dead? No one would say anything until you got to a mid to high rank of course as this would be kept under wraps.

As far as locations, you could read that list I stole from that thread.

Also, I think names are by far the least relevant thing we could come up with.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:22 pm

What? No... (Also what is the Grand Ascendant's Cloister gonna be like if it's just a big sham-house "Don't come in here!")

I can see the list, but I'm not sure where councillors should go, how many in Almalexia, how many in the forest, etc. People with an idea of such things would be better qualified than me to speak. If you're saying you want me to do it, I will, but it will be arbitrary.

Names are very important, otherwise it all becomes a bit 'this guy' and 'leader dude' and it all gets a bit detached from the world we're trying to build. Better do it now than later. Obviously they don't take 'precedence' over anything else, but it's important to get them sorted before going too much deeper. Like I've been saying: foundations up.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:45 am

I don't like the fact that vital planning waited to be done until after interiors were already made, but I can't imagine anything good coming out of this discussion taking place 5 years ago so I guess it is a bit of a wash.

Just because something exists doesn't mean we have to use it. (doesn't necessarily apply here, but it is something too many people forget.) As far as the grand whatsit's house being a big sham house, if he died recently they could tell the player he is traveling on business until they reach a certain rank.

As far as the councilors are concerned, I want someone to say something. I hate that our faction map, apart from the borders, is so horrendously out of date.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:20 am

note that the player is not counted in the total, so anyone wanting an odd number wants 10 prolly, so wtih the player 11. well just see how many places we have.

i think if its either 9 or 10, 4 should be in Almalexia, so that a majority are outside, but only a slim one. Unless there aren't 4 councilor level manors in Almalexia, which I somehow doubt.

The head can still be dead - only his private room needs to be blocked from the player. His manservant tells the player that he is very ill and not taking visitors. In reality, he is dead and his wife has been handling his affairs, the city councillors know about it, but no one else does.

There's then 1 in the Thirr Valley, 1 in Akamora, and let's say 3 in the Lan Orethan. Othrensis, Bosmora, or Roa Dyr will want 1 between them, probably Othrensis. I don't know anything about Roa Dyr, but Bosmora needs a complete remake. If its felt that one needs be somewhere else, Almalexia could be reduced to 3, or the number could be raised to 11.

theviking · Post by **theviking** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:03 pm

Let's say (i grabbed some names from the white book):

Daris Semis of Akamora
Veradul Deakrin of Sailen Vulgate
Lady Bedynea Darothril of Bosmora?
Neril Sevuro (Grand Ascendant) of Almalexia
Alvus Tayhtionis of Almalexia
Ienaso Sandril of Almalexia and Gorne
Lady Tremona Terith of Almalexia
Dralas Therayn of Othrensis
Sathos Dinuro of the Thirr Valley
Lady Somia Llerian of Rhoauf Duhr (whatever that town is called today)
Hleris Rithrin of Mereth Ruhn? (a large town in map6)

the two in Bosmora and Mereth Ruhn are question marks, so one of them can be left out, or both.

IP made the akamora people of my idea. I had the idea that, because Akamora had so much eggmines, this would form an excellent basis for a struggle in the control of them. At the time Akamora had four larger building which were called manor, so I thought of a struggle between four wealthy families. You can guess that if there is a struggle between families over eggmines this comes close to the type of struggle you have between maffia families. I think it is a good idea to make quests about the power struggle over egmmies to tie them to the town more.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:05 pm

so bosmora, mereth ruhn, sailen, and roa dyr all lose their doods and 3 are put in thirr valley manors

they can still have doods who arent on the council

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:38 pm

The head shouldn't be dead from the start with a cover-up, he should die half-way through, having been ill from the start. (Sload's situation still applies - manservant say "you no enter") Any player who doesn't use lockpicks or whatever gets invited to see the Grand Ascendant one time, shortly before he dies (a quest or two). Intrigue ensues. (House War? Inter-House rivalries? The player? Illness? Shocker!)

For Councillors, then (all totally up for change):

Neril Sevuro, Grand Ascendant
(Almalexia, m)

Alvara Taythionis (dodgy surname)
(Almalexia, f)

Tremona Ilveran
(Almalexia, f)

Irenieth Sandril
(Almalexia, m - though with family based in Gorne)

Dereloth Semis
(Akamora, m)

Moratha Relmas
(Othrensis, f) Othrensis I'm not sure about. Maybe move to Lan Orethan manor?

[Be]dynara Darothril
(Thirr Valley, f)

Sathos Dinuro
(Thirr Valley, m)

Somia Llathlesa
(Thirr Valley, f)

Helter Rithrin
(Thirr Valley, m)

Do these Thirr Valley manors exist yet (I assume not?), and will they be in Map 3? If not, some could be re-shunted to the Lan Orethan.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:51 am

the point is that its covered up BC

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:17 am

I much prefer having him dead, and think it works better.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:01 am

I think it looks hammy that 'he was dead all along', wheras in my way (which is effectively the same) there's some real intrigue rather than slapstick comedy as people chase the PC away from the doors to the GA's chambers, and it's something that the player gets to experience, rather than 'oh, TR copped out on having a head of the faction'.

I don't really want to have to argue this, there are more important things, but 'dead dude, cover-up' just seems a bit hammy and not very realistic.

What materially is different between my way and yours, except that in your way Indoril look like incompetent blunderers, and there's some "Don't go in there! *bolt*" slapstick?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:33 pm

you don't seem to be grasping something about this idea if you think it is silly or lazy. If the head of the house was a unique and irreplaceable figure who was, essentially, the only thing holding off the wolves, then his sudden death would be the perfect signal to move in. The wife of Needsa newnamo and those who know don't see anyone to take his place. He is the head of the pacifist faction within the party, and the player will be chosen by them to replace him if he follows that route.