Name Dedefecation

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Why not move it inside?

I can barely remember what the point of what Ada was getting at was, now.

If you still want to discuss renaming stuff, let's do it in here away from all the riff-raff and faux-controversy. This forum was made for a reason.

[Adanorcil]

This seems like a good idea.

[blackbird]

The only thing I want to clarify is that I'm not a fan of the name Blacklight either, just as the name Tear. I just wanted to use it as a comparison. Since the other forum was locked, I'll post it here.

I think every Dunmer town needs to have a Dunmer name and not an imperial one.

[Nomadic1]

FWIW I'd support moving Name Dedefecation here to HH. That thread only runs around in circles until the core has to step in.

*****

What about a list of Dunmer-sounding town names somewhere, so that every settlement needing a name can just take one off it? That would cut out some crap and bickering.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

If only someone had thought of moving it here when this subforum was made.

For the sake of getting discussion going again, could someone please list what all still needs renaming, what has already been renamed, and what it has been renamed to?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

... Previously, in 'Posts I Couldn't Merge into this Thread so Deleted for clarity of Closure on the other one'... Haplo had advocated Morhad Uvayn. I said it sounded more Redoran than Indoril.


Okay, how about L(a/e/i)n Mur(h)a for Bosmora? Sounds a bit less rugged. But then this is all so subjective.

Haplo Edit: Please don't ever delete posts. It is not allowed.

[Adanorcil]

... Previously, in 'Posts I Couldn't Merge into this Thread so Deleted for clarity of Closure on the other one'... Haplo had advocated Morhad Uvayn. I said it sounded more Redoran than Indoril.


Okay, how about L(a/e/i)n Mur(h)a for Bosmora? Sounds a bit less rugged. But then this is all so subjective.

Haplo Edit: Please don't ever delete posts. It is not allowed.

Yeah, BC. This isn't Nam. There are rules here.


Off the top of my head:

Bosmora: various suggestions, none really agreed upon. I'm fine with what BC suggested above. Lan Murha seems to be missing a final letter, though. I agree on what BC says that my suggestions sounded a little 'rugged', but I felt many of the big names we've made were rather smooth, so I figured this could be more in the style of, say, Gnisis and Khuul, to compensate.


Akamora: By popular vote, this is apparently a really great name. I'm fine with whatever, as long as it's not that.

Darnim Watch: Apparently already fixed.

Dondril: Surplus of D's + plus it sounds a little un-Dunmer. Not a huge problem, though.


Imperial village and fort in Cathartis' claim: Not many suggestions have been made yet. Cathartis chanced upon Teyn. I don't really mind that one, but I feel it's not entirely Imperial either. Large series of random variations: Teniand, Tehanid, Ternuph, Taenid, Edance, Hedin, Teinom, Tabbaen...

As for the fort, anything goes except for Hillmoth, Rivermoth, Stormmoth, Rainmoth, Stonemoth, Skymoth, Crapmoth or anything else that follows that pattern.

Reich Parkeep: Still hasn't been decided on. Personally I like the idea that this was founded by the Nords way way back and long since taken over by the Dunmer. A dunmerization of the name (minus the keep) might work, but I have no immediate suggestions.

Tear: this one just came up in the conversation randomly. I proposed a compromise solution.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

What would a dunmerization of Reich Parkeep be then?

[gro-Dhal]

As for the fort, anything goes except for Hillmoth, Rivermoth, Stormmoth, Rainmoth, Stonemoth, Skymoth, Crapmoth or anything else that follows that pattern.

Are moth references completely out of the question? Because I think Tortrix (a moth genus) is too funky a word to ignore. Tortrix Keep?

I like Tabbaen best for the settlement. Sounds enough like Niben to set bells ringing, without being a blatant rehash of an existing name.

[Haplo]

The name Dondril reminds me of tendril and nostril at the same time, and gives me the image of sticking a tongue up a nose.

Tortrix sounds like a dominatrix mixed with a tortoise... I don't think X is used really all that often in the Dunmer language.

Does Cathartis' place have to have an Imperial name? After all, Seyda Neen isn't really Imperial I don't think... Teyn or Hedan Teyn or something Teyn might sound cool and help to link it psychologically with its Vvardenfell twin.

For Reich Parkeep, Rech Palarah? Sorry, I'm terrible with names...

[Myzel]

Reg Baarsel
Reg Breylis
Rah Pellane
Rapalje

Just throwing things out there.

[Katze]

I thought Teyn sounded Nordic more than Imperial, just because the town was founded by a citizen of the empire doesn't mean they had to use a Cyrodillic name.

[gro-Dhal]

Tortrix sounds like a dominatrix mixed with a tortoise... I don't think X is used really all that often in the Dunmer language.

I meant for the Imperial fort. I know what you mean about the tortoise stuff though. There was another moth-related word I liked... how about Clearwing Fort?

[Adanorcil]

What would a dunmerization of Reich Parkeep be then?

I didn't have any good ideas, but the idea is rather simple. "Keep" can be ignored, since that is obviously just something they add to indicate it's a keep. That means the rest "Reich Par" / "Reichpar" is the actual name. "Regbar" would be the closest dunmerization, but that doesn't really sound great. Just a euphonious variation of that should do, I think, but I don't know if it's possible to come up with something like that.

Are moth references completely out of the question? Because I think Tortrix (a moth genus) is too funky a word to ignore. Tortrix Keep?

I like Tortrix Keep. I'm fine with Latin moth genera names, as long as they sound good. The fact it uses an X is not a problem for an Imperial fort. Personally any similarity to other words doesn't bother me too much in this one, but if it does for other people, that's fine. I think we should avoid 'Clearwing Keep'. The difference between the two is that the former is a cool-sounding, opaque name whereas the latter is quite clearly a reference to moths since we ran out '-moth' names. We could alter "Tortrix" a little.

The name Dondril reminds me of tendril and nostril at the same time, and gives me the image of sticking a tongue up a nose.

You have much too much fantasy. But the name does sound wrong, yes.

Does Cathartis' place have to have an Imperial name? After all, Seyda Neen isn't really Imperial I don't think... Teyn or Hedan Teyn or something Teyn might sound cool and help to link it psychologically with its Vvardenfell twin.

It doesn't really need to have an Imperial name, but it could have. Seyda Neen has a Dunmer name but Imperial buildings, which leads me to assume it was an existing town that the Imperials converted. Other Imperials towns such as Pelagiad and Caldera do have Imperial names. So it kind of depends: what sort of town would this be. A recent Imperial settlement, or an older Dunmer one taken over by the Empire? Given its location and size, I think the former makes more sense.

Reg Baarsel
Reg Breylis
Rah Pellane
Rapalje

Shouldn't you, as a Dutchman, know what 'Rapalje' means?

Reg Baarsel in my opinion is our closest shot so far. The double 'a' may be a little too reminiscent may be too reminiscent of Baan Malur, though. I agree with your strategy of adding a syllable behind the "par"-component. The 'Reg' doesn't feel entirely right either. Ideas:

Reg Barasis
Reg Barul
Reybar
Reybaris
Reg Baradad
Rey Barmun
etc.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I quite like Par. Maybe keep that as a first word or last word: Par Ranyon; Rilms Par etc.

[Haplo]

Hate to start a new conversation here, but I think there are some issues with Bisandryon and its cells.

First, Cathartis likes Bisandaryon (a second 'a') more.

Second, There's one here called Sepulcher of Qidsah. I mean come on.

In fact, here's the whole list:

[img]http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7907/28388604.jpg[/img]

Feel free to suggest names for ones that suck.

[Adanorcil]

Hate to start a new conversation here, but I think there are some issues with Bisandryon and its cells.

First, Cathartis likes Bisandaryon (a second 'a') more.

Second, There's one here called Sepulcher of Qidsah. I mean come on.

In fact, here's the whole list:

[img]http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7907/28388604.jpg[/img]

Feel free to suggest names for ones that suck.

Firstly: what's Bisandryon anyway? (Sorry: I'm uninformed.)

I have to say I prefer Bisandryon to the version with an extra a. I feel it has a better ring and also because 'aryon' is already kind of prevalent.

[gro-Dhal]

Bisandryon is a mega Chimer fort. That chap'thil word bothers me- I can only see two references in lore, both by non-Dunmer sources and one usage (in the Pocket Guide) seems to be an insult.

And Golden Hall is a bit Lord of the Rings I think. I don't really associate gold with the Dunmer either, they seem to value other precious materials more.

[Haplo]

Bisandryon (Detailing Claim #7 by Nomadic, currently in Reviewing, cell: "TR Bisandryon") is the largest Dunmer-style stronghold in TR (or will be, once the one on the border of Map 4/5 is removed/redone, if that happens), and thus the largest in MW. I think TF was planning on having certain floors inhabited by hostile, fundamentalist Indoril, and the bottom ones sealed off or something until the player can find a way through.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Personally I never liked that Indoril idea. Strongholds are dungeons, for finding loot in - especially ones as awesome and big as this. And this area is just too much in the cultured heartlands IMO for badlandsy type activity like that - more suited to Vvardenfell.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

so... the stronghold is more suited for dungeon baddies than fundi indoril... and it is placed too close to civilization to be a dungeon? What exactly do you want to happen here then?

I rather like the idea that there are fundi indoril living here

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I mean there's room for standard 'creepy abandoned place' stuff, but not in my opinion for 'rogue political factions'.

I also don't think that the Indoril really lean that way - they're powerful and traditional enough that 'going rogue' in this fashion doesn't really seem in character. For me, it just takes away from the impression of the Indoril as the cultured and refined masters which this release should be giving, I think. But that's just my opinion, as always.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Well, I didn't think they'd be hostile from the start

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

It's the whole thing of 'random Indoril dudes lurking in a dungeon environment as opposed to an opulent manor'. It just seems off-key - it just about works on Vvardenfell with those Redoran guys (who may just be an LGNPC addition) because it seems all kind of 'pioneery' and 'rugged' which suits both Vvardenfell and Redoran's character. This idea doesn't suit either the Lan Orethan or Indoril.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

have you seen this interior? It may be a dungeon tileset, but this is still a manor.

[Haplo]

I agree that it would be highly uncharacteristic of Indoril.

[Adanorcil]

BC is right in every aspect. If there is such a thing as fundamentalist Indoril (the term really implies the existence of a sort of intellectually superior atheist ideology, which is incorrect), they would be sophisticated and cultured people in the cities.

That being said, I think we can probably use this stronghold for something nice, but we'll discuss that elsewhere. Let's get back to the names. I'd like to look at the cells, but I can't seem to find them in the merged map 3 esp. Is it hiding somewhere else?

[Haplo]

Use this file. Cell: TR Bisandryon

[Lord_Gallant]

My justification for naming Bosmora was because the original town that was located in that place was named "Amber Forest". Granted, the actual translation of "Bosmora" is "Green Forest", but I didn't have a Dunmer word for "Amber" at the time. Regardless, the name came from the lore, and I do think at least the "-mora" should be included in whatever updated name is chosen. It is similar to how I named the town of "Greenheights", which I translated as "Alt'Bosara".

As for "Blacklight", I'd recommend that you keep this name as is. The reason is that it is a major city that has references to its name concurrent along with more modernized names, such as Balmora and Ald'Ruhn. This is an offical map to illustrate this:
http://imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-map

You'll notice Tear and Narsis are also on that map, so it would probably not be a good idea to Dunmerify those names either.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

We recognize the methods behind your reasoning, but we have still done our best to move away from building block names lately.

Blacklight has already become Baan Malur. Having such an important dunmer city have an imperial name doesn't make much sense. We justify this by saying that the imperialized name for the town is Blacklight.

Narsis is not getting a name change and Tear was only mentioned once. I don't think it will actually get a name change.

Also, while this is not the forum for meaningless chitchat, wow Lord Gallant, haven't seen you in a long time. (or perhaps even at all, I might be mixing my own memory with reading the archives)

[Lord_Gallant]

Well, if you have already made the Blacklight change I understand that you really can't just change it back like that. Myself, I never really was a fan of Rodan's version of Blacklight, and I think I remember it was redone anyway. That said, if I recall correctly, Blacklight was meant to be an Imperial town in the lore, similar to Ebonheart, which is why an Imperial name was given to it. It's been a while though, so perhaps I'm totally off on the lore.

As for the Bosmora name, I won't try to defend it too vigorously. I was never satisfied with the "Bos-" part of it anyway. It just sounded like the kind of name that just rolled off the tongue.

Yes, I remember you Thrignar, though you were only with the project a short time by the time I left the project. I don't comment very often these days (unless I spot something I was involved with), but I do lurk these forums regularly. You can take the Paladin out of TR, but you can't take the TR out of the Paladin

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Yeah, blacklight hasn't been imperial since before Kebra took over the city. It hasn't been made yet (or it was mostly made then slated for another redo due to being too large)

Feel free to catch yourself up and do a bit more modding. We've got plenty to do in every department, and more help is always welcome. I'll answer any questions via PM in an effort to get this thread back on track.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Heading back up a few posts, now relating to my NPC claim; Bisandryon, Zanammu? What do we want to do with these things? Any thoughts?

[Nomadic1]

Lady N would be the person to ask about Zanammu, after all she made it. I think it's just an undead dungeon though, albeit a kickass original ancient citadel dungeon.

[Lady Nerevar]

I remember being partial to the interior back when I made it, but I've not looked at it in ages. I think it had a backstory relating to the annexation of Morrowind left over from the original claimant, iirc its inhabitants committed suicide rather than submit. Don't know what ended up being done with the creatures.

If the exterior has been suitably fixed, I'd say it could make a fine quest-related dungeon. Its a bit uber for something that has no purpose, I think, but I don't know if thats a problem.

[Katze]

Maar Mora, the shack village on the western shore to Almas Thirr should probably become a poor district of Almas Thirr, it certainly looks close enough. The name makes very little sense what with there being no trees nearby.

[Haplo]

It has been the slum district of Almas Thirr for about a year now. Somebody missed the boat...

[Katze]

None of the interiors have had their descriptions changed, then. I was just looking through the big claims list earlier, is all.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Whilst I'm gone, if anyone has ideas on Bisandryon that might be nice. Zanammu I'm just doing as a wilderness quest related dungeon.

[Haplo]

Sir_Dave suggested Darvanyon for renaming Hla Ruhn.