IRC Minutes

Threads related to the general organization of the project.

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Adanorcil
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Posts: 806
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:41 pm

IRC Minutes

Post by Adanorcil »

The point of this thread is to contain summaries of discussions on IRC.

Whenever a particularly lengthy or important discussion has been going on or some sort of decision was made, it should be summarized here, so others who weren't present can keep up. Do not post entire logs; they are too much to read for people who just want to read the gist of the discussion. Make a quick tl;dr and, if there is disagreement, outline the various positions.

Please also include a date and some sort of topic if relevant. (Please write out the month, so people who don't format dates the American way don't have to think about what's the month and what's the day.)
Last edited by Adanorcil on Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Adanorcil
Developer Emeritus
Posts: 806
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:41 pm

Post by Adanorcil »

7 september 2013


Decision to make IRC Minutes thread.
Adanorcil
Developer Emeritus
Posts: 806
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:41 pm

Post by Adanorcil »

15 september 2013


Participants: Adanorcil, rot, Swiftoak, Arvis,
Discussion regarding project-wide planning and workflow, spawned by the Almalexia planning troubles.

Keypoints:

- Sequentially basing all future modding work (inting, NPCing, questing, etc.) on exterior work is an inefficient and often counterproductive way of making this mod.

- A general retrospective/evaluation of how we do and organize things may be a good idea.
Adanorcil
Developer Emeritus
Posts: 806
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:41 pm

Post by Adanorcil »

15 september 2013


Participants: Adanorcil, rot, Swiftoak, Arvis,
Discussion regarding actively looking for and recruiting project members.

Keypoints:

- All the below is Urgent.

- We do far too little "recruiting": modelers, artists, level designers... We need all these people but mostly we just sit around and wait for people to find us.

- We should recruit more for specific/one time jobs. "We need this model and we bet none of you suckers can actually make it. Prove us wrong." Think in terms of freelancing.

- Use Facebook etc. Reach out more beyond the ES forum.

- Look at other (foreign) communities? Great House Fliggerty? Arvis suggests German communities, which he can translate for. Good stuff from Russian communities too.

- Showcase doesn't do any good for/puts off artists (modelers, animators, concept artists.) We shouldn't be hoping to bind them to us semi-permanently. Instead, we have a job, they do it, even if it's the only one they ever do. We have clear and high standards and if their product lives up to it, then that's all we need. If it doesn't, then we don't use it. These standards need to set and enforced by capable artists of the respective discipline.
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Haplo
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Location: Celibacy

Post by Haplo »

9 October 2013

Participants: Adanorcil, Nemon, Swiftoak, Haplo, roerich
Discussing revealing our plans to all Internal Modders so that we can prepare for a public announcement (and to get all of TR on the same page, so to speak).



[10/09/2013 03:24PM] <Swiftoak> so who's in favour of at least declassifying our intentions to edit vvardenfell to at least our internal modders?
[10/09/2013 03:25PM] <roerich> how many active internal modders are there, who are not in HH anyways?
[10/09/2013 03:25PM] <roerich> besides tes96
[10/09/2013 03:27PM] <@Adanorcil> Not sure, but it's a bad idea to not do it regardlessly
[10/09/2013 03:27PM] <@Adanorcil> I mean, we're talking a two year old decision here
[10/09/2013 03:27PM] <Swiftoak> agreed
[10/09/2013 03:27PM] <Swiftoak> it's bad enough we keep things from the public, worse that we keep them from modders.
[10/09/2013 03:28PM] <Swiftoak> im fine with halfway for initial discussion but we should move this information to our modders sooner
[10/09/2013 03:29PM] <Swiftoak> at the very least
[10/09/2013 03:34PM] <roerich> gets a go from me as well, although i may not be or have been the most active TR member
[10/09/2013 03:34PM] <@Nemon> I don't even like the idea :/
[10/09/2013 03:35PM] <Swiftoak> the idea of editing vvardenfell, or the idea of talking to our other modders?
[10/09/2013 03:35PM] <@Nemon> editing vvardenfell. That one never really chimed well, mostly because I wanted to move forward
[10/09/2013 03:36PM] <@Nemon> also why that area in particular?
[10/09/2013 03:36PM] <@Nemon> is the telvanni lacking?
[10/09/2013 03:36PM] <Swiftoak> we all do. but IMHO we're kidding ourselves if we can produce a morrowind true to bethesda's original vision w/o consideration of vvardenfell
[10/09/2013 03:36PM] <Swiftoak> im not talking just exteriors and CS stuff
[10/09/2013 03:38PM] <Swiftoak> the problem is we're not expanding morrowind meaningfully, we're simply adding onto it
[10/09/2013 03:42PM] <@Nemon> which is how we've so far won the hearts and minds of the community, and one rpg mod award
[10/09/2013 03:43PM] <Swiftoak> im not criticising our work, it's damn good work
[10/09/2013 03:43PM] <@Nemon> I don't see where we're failing, really
[10/09/2013 03:43PM] <@Nemon> except in current progress
[10/09/2013 03:50PM] <Swiftoak> it's not so much a failure
[10/09/2013 03:51PM] <Swiftoak> just that we should refine our vision. we're not talking about bulldozing vvardenfell and building it anew.
[10/09/2013 03:52PM] <@Nemon> We're talking about changing certain elements on vvardenfell, and I have yet to understand if we're just limiting ourselves to the telvanni section or if this is going to be broader strokes painted
[10/09/2013 03:53PM] <roerich> broader, as far as i'm concerned
[10/09/2013 03:53PM] <@Adanorcil> It's in general, but it mostly doesn't concern exteriors or interiors
[10/09/2013 03:53PM] <roerich> mostly for questlines.
[10/09/2013 03:54PM] <roerich> like having venim go to the mainland
[10/09/2013 03:54PM] <@Adanorcil> except those places where it's necessary
[10/09/2013 03:54PM] <@Adanorcil> Roerich: he might well stay where he is
[10/09/2013 03:54PM] <@Adanorcil> It kinda fits him
[10/09/2013 03:54PM] <roerich> and dram bero (?) rise in house hlaalu fighting corruption
[10/09/2013 03:54PM] <@Nemon> okay, thanks for that clarification ada
[10/09/2013 03:54PM] <roerich> oh, ok. certainly fits him, just thought i'd read otherwise (why's stuff)
[10/09/2013 03:55PM] <@Adanorcil> it's a bit up in the air
[10/09/2013 03:55PM] <~Haplo> I can't stay but I just want to say I think some of the confusion--relating to Nemon's apprehension--is the question of whether "editing Vv" means specific, measured modifications here and there or will it turn into a seriously feature-creeped near-TC
[10/09/2013 03:55PM] <@Adanorcil> but I'd argue for him staying on Vvardenfell now
[10/09/2013 03:56PM] <~Haplo> obviously I think everyone's in favor of the latter rather than the former (@Nemon)
[10/09/2013 03:56PM] <@Nemon> I worry that we would take on too much
[10/09/2013 03:56PM] <@Adanorcil> dude
[10/09/2013 03:56PM] <@Nemon> where's my car
[10/09/2013 03:56PM] <@Nemon> sry
[10/09/2013 03:56PM] <@Adanorcil> This is the project that was gonna make all of tamriel in a year.
[10/09/2013 03:57PM] <@Nemon> yeah that was dumb
[10/09/2013 03:57PM] <@Adanorcil> Taking on too much is almost a hilarious thing to worry about.
[10/09/2013 03:57PM] <~Haplo> Nemon's concern is valid
[10/09/2013 03:57PM] <@Nemon> no, we scaled our dumb ambitions down
[10/09/2013 03:57PM] <~Haplo> no one wants to return to the TR of 2003
[10/09/2013 03:57PM] <~Haplo> except maybe eraser
[10/09/2013 03:57PM] <@Nemon> now we're at the brink of being able to shape areas in the last "old" map
[10/09/2013 03:58PM] <@Adanorcil> These things need to be looked at and considered well
[10/09/2013 03:58PM] <@Nemon> I need to keep on having stuff for the ext modders to make
[10/09/2013 03:58PM] <@Adanorcil> But not doing it is so absurdly contrary to our mission statement we might as well quit right now.
[10/09/2013 04:00PM] <Swiftoak> ^
[10/09/2013 04:00PM] <~Haplo> so Nemon are you saying you want there to be some exterior modifications of Vvardenfell?
[10/09/2013 04:00PM] <~Haplo> or are you concerned that this will preempt the ability for you to open Map 6 for exteriors
[10/09/2013 04:01PM] <@Nemon> I want there to be claims for Othreleth woods, southern thirr and agreed upon changes to Vv AND map 1
[10/09/2013 04:01PM] <@Nemon> a variety because I think the monotoness of map 5 hurts
[10/09/2013 04:02PM] <Swiftoak> are the shipal rocks placeholders in othrleth?
[10/09/2013 04:03PM] <Swiftoak> the orange ones in the screenshots you posted in 6-49
[10/09/2013 04:03PM] <Swiftoak> just curious
[10/09/2013 04:03PM] <@Nemon> no I meant for those to be used both in othreleth and shipal
[10/09/2013 04:04PM] <@Nemon> easier to blend the regions, which would be differentiated by flora and landscape shape
[10/09/2013 04:04PM] <@Adanorcil> would be pretty easy to make some actual models for this, really
[10/09/2013 04:04PM] <@Adanorcil> instead of recolored beth textures
[10/09/2013 04:05PM] <@Nemon> the shipal rocks are aeven's (?) texture iirc
[10/09/2013 04:05PM] <@Nemon> and no, we do not make models easily. That takes ages, including modelers leaving and me getting a new set of kids in the meantime
[10/09/2013 04:05PM] <~Haplo> so my opinion right now after 5 minutes regarding priorities is that we should get to the point where we can open Othreleth Woods claims, and have the "up in the air" stuff re: Adanorcil come in for a landing. priorities should be sorting out what kind of changes we are going to make to Vvardenfell (quests? moving NPCs? altering interiors/exteriors?), then "de-classify" the plan to modify Vvardenfell, then determine exactly what changes to Vvardenfell will be made, then southern Thirr. Optionally Southern Thirr can go after Othreleth Woods or be switched with it
[10/09/2013 04:05PM] *** roerich is now known as roerich|away
[10/09/2013 04:05PM] <~Haplo> also Nemon: monotonous
[10/09/2013 04:06PM] <@Nemon> thanks
[10/09/2013 04:06PM] <@Adanorcil> hold on: sec
[10/09/2013 04:06PM] <@Adanorcil> Nemon: are they a proper retex or just a recolor
[10/09/2013 04:06PM] <~Haplo> now i must go in a second but if someone would please post the logs to the Halfway Logs thread, that'd be great
[10/09/2013 04:06PM] <@Nemon> and I want our admins to strike their hammers of judgment more often D:
[10/09/2013 04:06PM] <@Nemon> judgement*
[10/09/2013 04:06PM] <~Haplo> judgment
[10/09/2013 04:06PM] <@Nemon> ffffffuuuuuu
[10/09/2013 04:07PM] <~Haplo> lol
[10/09/2013 04:07PM] *** Haplo changed the channel topic to 'Welcome to the Halfway House | Private Discussion | Don't forget to log things'
[10/09/2013 04:07PM] <@Adanorcil> what Haplo said
[10/09/2013 04:07PM] <@Adanorcil> I made that topic for a reason
[10/09/2013 04:07PM] <~Haplo> british english might be judgement though
[10/09/2013 04:07PM] <Swiftoak> where's the love for canadian english
[10/09/2013 04:07PM] <~Haplo> pfft that's not a thnig
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <Swiftoak> boo lol
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <@Nemon> and now the canadian says sorry
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <Swiftoak> sorry
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <Swiftoak> :P
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <@Nemon> hah
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <~Haplo> I have picked up the bad habit of calling Canada Canadia
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <@Nemon> and the australian fires up the grill
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <~Haplo> I blame it on living in the south too long
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] *** Haplo is now known as Haplo|Away
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <@Adanorcil> Haplo: figuring out exactly what changes are gonna happen to Vv is impossible, as it would require all the quests and stuff to be fully designed.
[10/09/2013 04:08PM] <@Nemon> quick, someone do the clear command!
[10/09/2013 04:09PM] <@Adanorcil> But the type of changes is simply: as required.
[10/09/2013 04:10PM] *** TF|HavingTrouble has quit IRC: Connection closed
[10/09/2013 04:14PM] <~Haplo|Away> they'll need to be more specific than that
[10/09/2013 04:16PM] *** Nemon is now known as Nemon|i3-749
[10/09/2013 04:17PM] <~Haplo|Away> since Sload has been back at TR, he has railed against the lack of foresight or planning or structure to TR's design process. This is the perfect opportunity to plan ahead. Isn't this the purpose of those House Telvanni/House Indoril/House Redoran faction threads?
[10/09/2013 04:17PM] <@Adanorcil> Yeah, of course
[10/09/2013 04:17PM] <@Adanorcil> Developing those is fine
[10/09/2013 04:17PM] <@Adanorcil> all I'm saying is: we can't describe the changes if that hasn't been done yet
[10/09/2013 04:18PM] <Swiftoak> what we need is a centralized design document
[10/09/2013 04:18PM] <~Haplo|Away> what I mean by the types of changes is that we need to have a bit more to say when we bring the discussion to Internal: Discussion than just "we're gonna be editing Vvardenfell"
[10/09/2013 04:18PM] <~Haplo|Away> because people are going to be confused and will ask "well what kind of changes"
[10/09/2013 04:18PM] <~Haplo|Away> so we need to be able to say "we're going to have certain faction quests that send you to Vvardenfell to interact with that branch of the faction" for example
[10/09/2013 04:19PM] <~Haplo|Away> this is the point where we try to make the "as necessary" operating budget as small as possible, if youw ill
[10/09/2013 04:20PM] <~Haplo|Away> and the goal is to have as many of those questions answered before the "internal reveal" because, well, these are the kinds of guidelines that should be determined at a higher oversight level
[10/09/2013 04:21PM] <~Haplo|Away> as a sidenote I think announcing/mentioning our plans to rework Map 1 at the same time as the internal reveal would be a good idea
[10/09/2013 04:21PM] <~Haplo|Away> just to get as many people on the same page as possible all at once
[10/09/2013 04:21PM] <~Haplo|Away> now I'm away
[10/09/2013 04:22PM] <@Adanorcil> Might just be a typo, but you realize we're not talking different "branches" of a faction at all anymore, right.

Adan: Yep, I meant as much "local/regional offices" as "branches". Since naturally the people in the faction on the mainland will be dealing with different daily matters than those of the people in the faction on Vvardenfell.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
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