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Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Finally got a chance to have a look at it, and it's looking very good. The river stuff is spot on!
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Post Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:18 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Leon
Developer
30 Jul 2011

Location: The Netherlands

Bold=fixed


4/9/2012 (13:45 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (11, -28 ) "furn_de_rug_01" 95526 -223211 98 "floats"

4/9/2012 (13:46 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (11, -28 ) "ex_velothi_window_01" 95713 -223040 279 "this window is barely attached with its building"

4/9/2012 (13:47 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (11, -28 ) "ex_velothi_window_01" 95890 -222984 279 "this window is barely attached with its building"

4/9/2012 (13:48 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (11, -28 ) "furn_de_p_chair_02" 95455 -222948 541 "floats"

4/9/2012 (13:50 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (10, -30 ) "TR_urn_04_ingred" 86486 -243936 252 "bleeds in ground"

4/9/2012 (13:51 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (10, -30 ) "TR_urn_03_ingred" 86382 -243979 248 "bleeds in ground"

4/9/2012 (13:51 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (10, -30 ) "urn_01" 86351 -243908 260 "bleeds in ground"

4/9/2012 (13:52 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (10, -30 ) "TR_barrel_01_cheapfoo20" 86412 -243894 244 "bleeds in ground"

4/9/2012 (13:52 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (10, -30 ) "furn_guarcart00" 86747 -245138 277 "bleeds in ground"

4/9/2012 (13:53 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (10, -30 ) "EX_MH_bazaar_cart_01" 88558 -244879 303 "bleeds in ground"

4/9/2012 (13:54 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (10, -30 ) "colony_smoke_1" 87910 -244013 534 "Yeah, maybe put the smoke on the side of this chimney"

4/9/2012 (13:56 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (7, -30 ) "furn_de_ex_stool_02" 58685 -242037 168 "must be rotated"

4/9/2012 (13:56 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (7, -30 ) "furn_de_ex_table_03" 58798 -242035 177 "floats"

4/9/2012 (13:57 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (7, -30 ) "barrel_01_empty" 59172 -242081 166 "must be rotated"

4/9/2012 (13:58 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (7, -30 ) "barrel_01" 59880 -242161 173 "must be rotated"

4/9/2012 (13:59 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (7, -30 ) "barrel_01" 59823 -242155 169 "must be rotated"

4/9/2012 (14:01 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (7, -30 ) "Ex_De_Shack_Plank_03" 59235 -242244 172 "extreme bleeding in ground"

4/9/2012 (14:02 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (10, -29 ) "In_OM_column02" 83312 -237457 2 "caspering"

4/9/2012 (14:14 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (13, -26 ) "TR_cont_basket_01_food" 106912 -209949 203 "bleeds in ground"

4/9/2012 (14:16 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (13, -26 ) "TR_barrel_02_Ingred" 106986 -210036 255 "bleeds in ground"

4/9/2012 (14:17 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp 3/26/2012 (03:59 ) TR_A3 (13, -26 ) "TR_barrel_02_Ingred" 106986 -210102 255 "bleeds in ground"

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Last edited by Leon on Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

Done. Another bit of Tamriel has been rebuilt.

All existing interiors have been merged, the rest need to be made.

Here's a list of the ones I didn't make a map for.

New Interiors:

[12, -25] Mine of sorts
[11, -28] Velothi-style house
[12, -30] Underground river. It's basically the source of one of the rivers feeding Lake Andaram in the south. This is the big black hole. Very dark.
[6, -29] Grotto

As for the maps: they're of small settlements which don't need a name. Only the exteriors with numbers need a new interior.



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Post Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:36 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Some stylistic pointers:

- Limit the amount unique dialogue here. This is a low-key area and most npcs should exist merely to fill space. Npcs with unique dialogue should be tied to quests.

- Keep in mind the Indoril system of land management in this area. Indoril aristocrats own the land and protect the peasant farmers, who give tribute to their lords and engage in communal farming.

- The Population should be about 85-90% Dunmer. There isn't much in this corner of the Thirr River Valley to interest outlanders, who will mostly be drawn to nearby settlements. Speaking of which:

- Only refer to nearby cities like Almas Thirr and Roa Dyr in general terms. Each of them will be going through minor overhauls in the near future that will affect their current npcs and dialogue.

- The Indoril Councilor who holds local sovereignty over these lands is Draler Ilvi, who lives in the manor to the north.

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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

Short NPC outline for farms/towns/plantations attached. Not all of the detail would make its way into dialogue, necessarily. My biggest question has to do with the fisherman's village, listed at the bottom.


m3a3 NPC Notes.txt
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Last edited by Tondollari on Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:30 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



please mind the issues when moving threads from Reviewing! posts from the last 2 years are now probably invisible to non-mods (without going through reply history)

Here's a reupload of the latest version in the meantime:
Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

Progress update. Civilized areas are fully NPC'd, plus one bandit cave. Areas affected include "Velonith Farmstead", "Saveri Plantation", "Selyn Farmstead", the fishing village of "Rilsoan" (Might change to "Siloan"), the bandit cave of "Yamniban", and "Vorus Odathil's House".

To do:
wilderness creatures/NPCs
remaining dungeons
dialogue
a quest for Velonith Farmstead, described in previous notes





Also made some small interior changes:

Deleted glitchy "steam" from cistern in "Velonith Farmstead, Ovis and Mansa Dirvyn's Shack"

Added bedroll in "Velonith Farmstead, Muddunshipal Egg Mine" for Llavorn Berelan

Removed one of the mine carts & its contents from "Velonith Farmstead, Velms Arelas' House" (blocked basement entry)

Replaced copy of "Jokes!" in "Selyn Farmstead, Irvasa Sorvas' Shack" with "Rilms' Lesson"

Replaced "The Pig Children" and "Jokes!" in "Selyn Farmstead, Gorz gro-Ungbuk's Shack" with "Words of Philosophy" and "Mixed Unit Tactics", deleted "Defense of Morrowind", replaced dunmer-style shirt on chest with imperial chain coif supported by a bottle of flin

Removed MK "Shor" book from "Selyn Farmstead, Varn's House" and placed a few religious texts, added some more clutter to his study area

Placed well-hidden dwemer coin & tube in "Rilsoan, Lloris Gilnam's Shack"

Replaced "The Imperial Navy" with "Gospel of St. Seryn" in "Rilsoan, Duln Sirev's Shack"



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Post Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Great work on this so far. Some comments:

It might seem like a minor alteration, but I think Saveri Plantation should be changed to Saveri Estate. We're trying to create the distinction that the Hlaalu run plantations, while the Indoril run manor estates with land tilled by peasant farmers.

NPC: TR_m3_S_Sambibi - I'm not sure whether we want to have Dunmer slaves working here. It might be best to change them to a regular peasent farmers working for the Saveri family.

NPC: TR_m3_S_Liram - Same case as Sambibi.

NPC: TR_m3_S_Ansansi - Same case as Sambibi

Thirr River Valley 7, -30 60892, -242118, 402 - Is there a reason for these door markers linking to empty interior cells sitting out by themselves? Is it for dialogue filtering to unnamed cells, or something?

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:30 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Yeti wrote:
Saveri Plantation should be changed to Saveri Estate


this is pretty good an idea. simple yet efficient.

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:33 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

Yeti wrote:

Thirr River Valley 7, -30 60892, -242118, 402 - Is there a reason for these door markers linking to empty interior cells sitting out by themselves? Is it for dialogue filtering to unnamed cells, or something?

The cell is there for dialogue filtering (none of these locations will have their own map markers), the door is there for playtesting (coc "Velonith Farmstead").

RE:Slaves, The only problem is that the Estate's "Slave Shack" interior is very... slavey. Three bedrolls, all cramped together, no accommodations except for a table with three plates of food on it. The two bedrolls in the manor's interior scream "slave" too, but those could be easily replaced. Only reason most of the slaves are Dunmer is that I read in one of the planning threads that the majority of Indoril slaves are Dunmer. Also refer to second-to-last post in this planning thread:

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24011

Gnomey wrote:

Indoril slaves fulfill much the same role as Indoril peasants, but have even less (no?) rights. They are owned by the estate owner (=Indoril noble), and have to work the estate in return for food and shelter (usually. Naturally, it's less of a give-and-take and more of a you-have-no-choice-in-the-matter).


What if I were to remove the slave bracers, but keep them under the "slave" class and remove the one Bosmer slave & her bedroll? Also change the two Ashlander names to regular names. Might fit in better with this vision.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Not everything in the planning thread is set in stone. Still, it might be interesting to implement Dunmer slaves on a limited but perceptible scale in Indoril lands. Having the slaves be from Ashlander lineage would make sense in this case. Perhaps we should discuss this further in the Master Planning section. We really should set in stone how certain races are enslaved and where slaves of certain races should be found.

For now, leave the slaves as is. I'm glad you took the time to read the planning thread before claiming. I like modders who do their research. Smile

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:21 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

As far as my post is concerned, I was not actually suggesting that slaves would be Dunmer, just that their role would be very similar to that of Dunmer Indoril peasants to an outside observer. Slaves might live in cramped quarters or pens and work the fields for the estate lords, while Indoril peasants might live in cramped houses and maybe sometimes boarding houses and work the fields for the estate lords.
(There are clear distinctions between the two, though. They're just fairly easy to miss).
I'd actually imagine that House Indoril would have very few Dunmer slaves working the fields as Indoril would generally be able to get away with calling them 'peasants' instead.

In the case of the Saveri Estate, keeping Salms Ulvani as a Dunmer peasant or retainer and making the slaves in the slave shack mostly or all Argonian would be how I would go about it. Something to keep in mind, though, is that the estate manor would typically only be where the estate lord lives, with most of its yield probably being used for subsistence. It would have a higher percentage of household slaves (hence the bedrolls in the manor) and might indeed have a higher percentage of unusual races.
The 'Farmstead's would probably grow the crops intended for export, and I would consider calling them 'Commune's or something like that instead.

Another problem is that the exteriors and interiors of those settlements were made before the idea that Indoril practice communal farming was established. I don't think the interiors or exteriors need much changing, other than perhaps adding one or two details, but NPCs could probably use some discussion. (Should the farmsteads have something like a hetman, for instance?)
Post Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

Considering the communal nature of the farms, I don't suppose naming them after one of the families within would fit well either? Maybe naming them after minor religious figures (not saints)?

What kinds of ext/int details would reinforce collectivism?

Also, concerning the Dunmer slaves thing, I read it somewhere else in planning - it might have just been a random idea to make the Indoril "weirder" that caught my eye. Anyway, I'll change them.
Post Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:48 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

It's not like Soviet communal farming. The farmland is owned by a lord, and the tenants have small portions of the land to work on. The farms should probably be named after their landowner and have more farmers maybe.
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Post Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:23 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

Update, dirty. Slaves changed + generic Velonith Commune dialogue (greeting + services). Creaturing close to completion, I think. Lightly populated, most creatures are friendly, and some of the hostile creatures won't spawn unless you're > level 1.

I also added a little treasure trove near Saveri Estate, in an area where it seemed like there should be a little something, coordinates: Thirr River Valley (12,-27) 100043 -215066 1320

As for dialogue, I don't think Selyn Commune, Rilsoan, or Saveri Estate warrant anything special unless faction quests take place in them. Several factions could possibly have quests in this area.

To that end, I think the player could be tasked with recruiting Varn Selyn for the Mages Guild. I also think the tomb next to Saveri Estate (TR_i3-520-Ind) would be an excellent tomb robbing location for the OE thieves' guild.

To do:
Remaining dungeons
Velonith Farmstead quest

EDIT: will likely be changing Velonith/Selyn back to "farmstead" or "farm".
Post Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:58 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

Done with work on this file, pending review or new interiors merged. All NPC'd except for i3-729 (abandoned adamantium mine), which may end up being moved elsewhere. Quest "A Miner's Trial" for Velonith Farmstead complete.


v2 clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp
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Post Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:40 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Great! I'll comment on this later tonight or tomorrow, or whenever I can find time. Very Happy
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Post Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:13 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



on quest:

- perhaps local latest rumor could mildly hint towards the neighbour? Unlikely for a player to visit all those shacks otherwise

TR_m3_Rolvyn_Saldro, "Velms - Velms Maloren's got a lot of nerve living here after the life he's lead." = led?

in_velothismall_fresco_02 Velonith Farmstead, Velms Maloren's House 3997 3818 15684 "journal entry about the mural ''I found a basement'' is triggered even while staying on the entry floor, can strengthen with position checks (eg Z to make sure PC went down, X?Y? check for PC actually having entered the basement)"


unrelated:

in_velothismall_dj_01 Velonith Farmstead, Velms Maloren's House 4288 3712 15553 "can this be lifted a bit? sometimes getting stuck. set scale 1.15 - set z pos 15553"

misc_hook Selyn Farmstead, Varn's House 3988 3474 15581 "these hooks"
misc_hook Selyn Farmstead, Varn's House 4440 3678 15639 "are pickable for some reason (and owned)"
misc_hook Selyn Farmstead, Varn's House 4398 3680 15566 "should prolly just be static"
Post Fri May 02, 2014 3:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

How about just having the journal trigger upon activating the door?

Edit: nevermind, i don't think there was a door. Will fix the thing.
Post Sat May 03, 2014 2:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Great work on this, Tondollari. You have a good eye and aesthetic taste for placing and designing npcs. Your dialogue is concise and delightful.

First off, all TR-related dialogue should be placed within the BEGIN TR MAP_ and END TR MAP_ tags at the top of the listing for the respective map. Thankfully, you don't have a lot of dialogue in this file, so it shouldn't be too much of a hassle to fix.

I think it would be best to make Hloris a non-slave servant. We haven't decided on a clear concept for Dunmer slaves yet. We don't even know where human or elvish slaves come from for that matter.

TR_i3-729-Ind needs to be populated, named and path-gridded.

TR_m3_O_Galms_Ovalyn needs a TR NPC script

You should give the farmstead npcs an alternate greeting so they aren't always saying hello to the player with the same exact words.

"Velonith Farmstead, Muddunshipal Egg Mine" should use leveled creatures instead of static ones.

I believe our standard is that even small interiors should have pathgrids. A number of the shacks and velothi ints don't have any.

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Post Sun May 04, 2014 10:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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