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arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

GNOMEY has the file to complete this proposal.

This thread is going to contain the north Andothren-Thirr Merge: an ESP file containing claims 4-20, 4-18, 4-1, 4-14 and parts of 4-21, 4-9, 4-4, 4-17, 4-48, 4-49. It is defined as

Code:

{(x, y) cell of map 4
| x >= -5 AND y >= -23,
  NOT ( x >= -2 and y <= -20)}.


(The NOT filters out the cells in the south Andothren-Thirr merge.) A picture says more than a thousand words, though probably not this one.

This is a permanent merge, not a demo file. I'm not planning to cut it ever again. So all changes have to be done on this file; don't modify the 4-14 and 4-1 claims anymore!

What remains to be done (not necessarily in this order?):
- completing the Andothren rebuild (Sload),
- merging in the remaining ints (see claims browser),
- bordermatching (this can start soon; Gnomey?),
- landscaping changes around the mouth of River Thirr (please try not to remove too much land -- ideally, just add rivers),
- NPCing of course (4-14 is done, but the rest),
- possibly detailing the claim border 4-4/4-14 west of Andothren (very little changes required -- basically I don't want to be able to spot this claim border from Secunda).

Note that this merge deliberately has cut some claims in two rather than following claim borders. This should facilitate border matching.

I'll post the file proper when it's done; right now I just need to have this thread started.


Last edited by arvisrend on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Attached is the actual merge.

WORKFLOW CONVENTIONS:

- If you want to edit this file (and are a TR modder), please ask the section leads for approval first. IRC is the easiest way to do that.

- If you want to do any kind of edits on the file and you have been greenlighted, please make sure that noone else has claimed it and then please claim it for yourself. Claiming the file means making a post (here in this thread) in which you explicitly announce in boldface that you are now working on the file. Once you either have made your changes or decide that you aren't going to, or just want to take a break, drop your claim by again announcing in boldface that you are no longer editing the file (and, obviously, uploading your latest version along with relevant information). To make this efficient, don't shy away from dropping and claiming liberally. If you know you have no time to work on the file for the next 2 days, do drop it -- maybe someone else will ninja in some edits in that time. Of course, you should not claim the file if someone else has it currently claimed.

- You don't need to get greenlighted by the section leads every time you want to re-claim the file; one approval (normally) lasts forever. That is, unless you're intent to make big (and/or possibly controversial) changes (e. g., new quests, or an overhaul of a region, or a new plantation); such changes should always be first suggested, then discussed and only then implemented (or not).

- The newest version of the file is always going to be attached to a recent post (not the first post in the thread, because not everyone has editing rights).

SPECIFICS:

Sload is saying he doesn't have time for TR work in the next week or so, so I assume the other jobs should be started first.



TR_m4_NorthAT_v0.001.ESP.7z
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Post Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Outstanding bugs:

Methink the Ilvaamu Unbound quest should have some post-mortem dialogue. The guards in Teyn could be thanking the player (little do they know) for the assistance, and complain about the lack of enchanted weapons that could actually harm the vampire. Felespyre, if she survives, could also have something to say.

See also the ToDo pictures from http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=319184#319184 .

[various other bug reports removed since they are now in Gnomey's post]

OLD Andothren issues, probably irrelevant but saved just in case:

ex_hlaalu_wall_end_01 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (-1,-17) -381 -133909 1364 "intersecting houses, probably benign, but sure that our inters were aware of that?"

ex_hlaalu_dsteps_03 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-17) 7363 -133143 193 "door needed"

hlaalu_loaddoor_ 02 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-16) 6991 -130528 431 "door to nowhere"

furn_de_overhang_05 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-16) 5845 -129699 342 "ugly intersection of ext shells here"

furn_de_overhang_05 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-16) 5845 -129699 342 "door missing" I'll stop reporting these now, there are too many.

ex_hlaalu_canal_10 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-16) 3673 -126817 -175 "ends abruptly, caspering"

Terrain_rocks_GL_01 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (1,-18) 9496 -146556 411 "float"

Ex_Vivec_waterfall_03 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (-1,-17) -412 -133117 508 "this water stream is runing in the opposite direction, also some strems can be seen from the side and that doesnt look good"

ex_hlaalu_buttress_04 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-17) 355 -133138 408 "caspering (look from the river)"

ex_hlaalu_canal_04 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-17) 1249 -134181 -71 "little seam between this part..."

ex_hlaalu_canal_04 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-17) 1122 -133669 -71 "... and this one"

ex_hlaalu_canal_01 TR_4-1-Hla (0,-15) 1411 -119333 31 "there's a creek between this ..."

ex_hlaalu_canal_10 TR_4-1-Hla (0,-15) 2154 -121023 31 "... and this"

ex_hlaalu_steps_04 TR_4-1-Hla (1,-17) 9254 -133061 778 "you can walk under these steps and things look awkward from there"

ex_hlaalu_b_23 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-16) 6214 -129551 127 "this house..."

ex_hlaalu_b_18 TR_4-1-Hla Andothren (0,-16) 5735 -128880 239 "... intersects this house"


Last edited by arvisrend on Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Hells
Developer
14 Jun 2007

Location: Poznan

Question: will TR_terrain_gl_rocks in Roth Roryn be replaced with TR_terr_GL_rock_b (same, but with brown vertex paint instead of green)? Imo they look better and have more "desert-y" feel.
Post Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:51 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

IMHO the RR is not supposed to feel particularly deserty, at least not everywhere. Exchanging rocks is fine when it happens manually at places where it is appropriate (feel free to betacomment!), but most of the time the green-ish rocks were placed deliberately and with regard to the color scheme of the surroundings. (Remember that vanilla GL rocks's have these green veins as well, and at some points they'd look awfully out of place if the others are changed.)
Post Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I am claiming this to make the changes to the coastline outlined in my original proposal in this thread.
Post Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:09 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Here's a preliminary file.

What I have done:
-changed the heightmap
-rearranged references to conform to said heightmap
-deleted a grand total of four references
-added several new references, mainly along the new coastline

What I haven't done:
-finished general detailing, particularly along the coastline and underwater
-finished detailing and vertex shading the land around Andothren in particular
-rearranged the shack village to conform to the new heightmap (I probably won't touch the village until I'm sure about what, if anything, we want to do with it)
-sniped the inevitable lingering floaters

I might try and arrange for an updated map and maybe a few screenshots with MGE later.



TR_m4_NorthAT_v0.010.ESP
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Post Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:08 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I'm assuming it's fine if I fix a few of the bugs outlined above as well as a few new ones I spot as I'm working? I would of course document which of the above bugs I fixed when submitting a new file. Edit: that includes border matching within the merge borders.
Post Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:10 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Of course, bugfixing is always fine!
Post Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Good job so far, Gnomey! You seem to really have salvaged everything that was good about the old terrain. I'd rather add a bridge from the isle with the shacktown to the mainland (it seems from vanilla that bridges are commonplace in Morrowind and when there is a civilized settlement there likely should be a bridge).

And speaking of bugfixing here is some stuff I caught on a quick walk: [bugs removed since they are now in Gnomey's post]


Last edited by arvisrend on Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:31 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

arvisrend wrote:
I'd rather add a bridge from the isle with the shacktown to the mainland [...]


I've already added one (technically two bridges) since posting the file above. I'm still not sure whether the shack village will even continue to exist in that form and location, though.

arvisrend wrote:
flora_tree_gl_01 ATNorth_TR_4-20 (-2,-19) -8228 -150734 598 "why did you remove trees around this place? this is not part of the coast. are you preparing for the south edits? i thought they shouldn't go this far north."


If you mean me, I'm not aware of having altered that cell at all. In my latest file I can see a bunch of Grazelands trees in the area; half a dozen in that particular cell. If there should be more, then I can always clean the cell out and re-add it.

I'll see to the other errors.
Post Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Gnomey wrote:
If you mean me, I'm not aware of having altered that cell at all. In my latest file I can see a bunch of Grazelands trees in the area; half a dozen in that particular cell. If there should be more, then I can always clean the cell out and re-add it.


Oops -- you're right! I now revisited the place and everything is back. Either the engine glitched the previous time or this was some artifact of dirtied cells which can be cleaned out semi-automatically; either way there is nothing of your fault in here. Sorry!

In other news, though, a dozen more bugs... [removed since they are now in Gnomey's post]


Last edited by arvisrend on Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I've done some more work on the coast, have started detailing underwater areas and have reconnected shackville to the road system. I also fixed most of the errors listed in this thread (and in this post, below).
I'll continue to hold on to this file to do detailing, fixes and to carry out any further changes that are agreed upon, but the rough objective of changing the coastline as planned has been completed, barring detailing, so I'd have no trouble handing off the file if somebody else wants to work on it.

On to the bug list: italicized grey errors have been fixed, bold indicates my comments.

Terrain_rocks_GL_02 TR_4-20 (-3,-16) -24510 -130725 267 "ground texture line along these rocks"
TR_terrain_GL_rock14 TR_4-14 (-4,-15) -32410 -121241 619 "ground texture line along these rocks" was 4-14 vs 4-17, now fixable
TR_terrain_AI_rock_10 TR_4-18-Hla (3,-17) 28957 -137586 117 "there is weirdly shaped water level line, due to the bad terrain heights"

TR_terrain_GL_rock19 TR_4-20 Othras Plantation (1,-19) 9339 -155280 331 "obvious texture seam here" this border issue can't be fixed right now
Terrain_rocks_GL_01 TR_4-18-Hla (2,-18) 16818 -143833 96 "land tex/shading mismatch perpendicular to the river here" ?
ex_nord_door_01 Teyn (-4,-14) -26993 -107226 732 "door mismatch (int/ext)" I think this mismatch is normal. You see the same thing in the Pelagiad Halfway Tavern and a lot of other places that aren't Seyda Neen or Dagon Fel.
ex_nord_door_01 Teyn (-4,-14) -25827 -107263 435 "door mismatch" same as above.
Terrain_rocks_AI_01 TR_4-4-Hla (-5,-13) -33318 -104137 543 "somewhat barren cell border nearby, more rocks? (this is so close to Teyn that it could be considered TR's showcase exterior)" I'm on it.
TR_terrain_GL_rock17 TR_4-1-Hla (-2,-16) -15967 -127187 936 "road peters out here" Not quite sure how to handle this one, so I'm leaving it for now.
ex_de_docks_steps_01 TR_4-1-Hla (-1,-15) -1453 -122826 2745 "wut"
Terrain_rocks_GL_01 Map 4 Alpha (-2,-18) -14494 -139593 412 "ground tex corner"
TR_terrain_AI_rock_12 ATNorth_TR_4-1-Hla (-1,-15) -6994 -116078 279 "casper"

TR_terrain_AI_rock_12 ATNorth_TR_4-1-Hla (-1,-15) -6994 -116078 279 "also here be landgap with Morrowind.esm. do we fix those?" I guess I'd just alter the Morrowind cell?
hlaalu_loaddoor_ 02 ATNorth_TR Andothren (0,-17) 200 -133591 420 "door fucked" there are some other errors around here that I suppose will be fixed by Sload
ex_de_docks_steps ATNorth_TR Andothren (0,-17) 4711 -133311 -78 "useless?" a canal endpiece appears to have been deleted, possibly by mistake.
ex_hlaalu_steps_06 ATNorth_TR Andothren (-1,-16) -357 -129832 1388 "theres a hole near here easy to fall into" I'll also leave this one to Sload...
ex_hlaalu_steps_05 ATNorth_TR Andothren (-1,-16) -1498 -130964 1447 "road bumps near the top of this" ...and this.
Terrain_rocks_AI_03 ATNorth_TR Andothren (-1,-16) -2413 -128114 1821 "road bumps near this"
Terrain_rocks_AI_03 ATNorth_TR Andothren (-1,-16) -2524 -126565 752 "this place might need some flowers or otherwise interesting detail -- it'll be visible right off the ship"
I'm on it.
ex_hlaalu_canal_01 ATNorth_TR Andothren (0,-16) 4453 -128513 -173 "caspers at its northern end" it appears that this canal piece and the connected ex_hlaalu_canal_02 were shifted a little by accident. The ex_hlaalu_canal_02 overlaps with another canal piece at its southern end.
ex_hlaalu_canal_01 ATNorth_TR Andothren (0,-16) 4502 -127995 -173 "caspers at its northern end"
TR_act_De_Bed_14 TR Andothren, #46 [i4-115] 3945 3773 15795 "no pasaran" the nearby rail was improperly grid-snapped, so I fixed that, but I still doubt anyone would be able to squeeze through. It might be better to remove the railing entirely.
flora_bush_01 ATNorth_TR Andothren (0,-17) 2022 -132136 278 "float" I'm assuming this error and the one below it are due to the temple area being a WIP. I left them untouched accordingly.
flora_ivy_02 ATNorth_TR Andothren (0,-17) 2773 -131668 263 "doesn't this need to somehow conncet to the ground?"
flora_gold_kanet_01 ATNorth_TR_4-18-Hla (2,-17) 22435 -133611 508 "Float"
TR_terrain_AI_rock_08 ATNorth_TR_4-18-Hla (2,-16) 20447 -128188 1726 "Casper"
ex_velothi_entrance_02 ATNorth_TR_4-18-Hla (2,-16) 20579 -127609 1709 "Casper"
flora_tree_ai_05 ATNorth_TR_4-18-Hla (3,-16) 29533 -130254 542 "Casper"

flora_tree_gl_06 ATSouth_TR_4-20 (-1,-20) -1378 -157017 1101 "ground tex mismatch nearby" this one belongs in the south merge
Terrain_rocks_GL_04 ATNorth_TR_4-20 (-1,-19) -4469 -153152 26 "slight casper"
TR_terrain_GL_rock19 Map 4 Alpha (-3,-17) -19378 -137974 1771 "caspers"
Terrain_rocks_GL_04 ATNorth_TR_4-20 (-4,-17) -27705 -135932 562 "caspers"
flora_wickwheat_02 ATNorth_TR_4-17 (-5,-15) -32975 -122559 155 "buried"
flora_bush_01 ATNorth_TR_4-20 (-4,-16) -32425 -124172 316 "not sure these should be halfburied like this"
flora_bush_01 ATNorth_TR_4-20 (-4,-16) -32425 -124172 316 "also rough ground texture transition"
a road suddenly ends here. I could extend it northwards to Teyn, to the ancestral tomb to the northeast, or I could remove it. (It splits off from another road not far away, so it wouldn't leave any loose ends).
TR_terrain_GL_rock14 ATNorth_TR_4-17 (-5,-16) -32942 -126135 1851 "vertex shading mismatch near the northern end of this"
TR_terrain_GL_rock19 ATNorth_TR_4-17 (-5,-16) -33174 -126651 2016 "vertex shading mismatch"


I also took a look at the file in TESAME, and found no clear examples of dirty references.
There is a PGRD entry for "Wilderness". This may have been my mistake. Should I clean it?
There are also six unnamed cells with landscaping entries.
I didn't bother checking the dialogue entries, but I haven't touched dialogue in the CS so I shouldn't have caused any problems there.

Edit: I also forgot to delete the Hlaalu buildings I tossed in as a test. Feel free to ignore those.



TR_m4_NorthAT_v0.013.ESP
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Post Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:03 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Don't bother cleaning out cells; as I said, I can do that myself later when you release the file.

Thanks for the bugfixing progress and sorry for the ATSouth cucckoo's egg. I'm taking the liberty to remove the bugs from the old posts.
Post Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

New file. Not quite as much work done as I'd like, but I'm pretty close to finishing work on the proposal. What I will still be doing:

-detailing north of Andothren
-detailing the new interior waterways and adding some incentive for underwater exploration
-checking former claim borders to eliminate seams

I have decided not to touch shackville, and haven't touched the Dwemer Ruin or Andothren aside from some slight bug fixes. I have also decided not to fix the seams with Vvardenfell.

I have mostly eliminated that gaping claim border between 4-4 and 4-14, but a large part of the problem is that the vertex shading in 4-4 is brown, while the vertex shading in the rest of the Ascadian Coast area is grey.

Edit: Once I am done implementing the above, I suggest the remaining interiors are merged into the file. I think that would simplify further planning and work on the section.



TR_m4_NorthAT_v0.014.ESP
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Last edited by Gnomey on Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:42 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Gnomey, that's great news (and I wouldn't worry that much about vertex shading as it can just be explained by different kinds of soil or whatever) but the file you've uploaded here is completely wrong.

I think most of the claim borders are dealt with on ATNorth (I've been fixing bugs when I've been making this merge, unlike ATSouth), but it doesn't hurt if you do some more checking.
Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:41 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

D'oh! Uploaded the correct file, thanks for pointing that out.
As for the claim borders, they do seem to have been mostly dealt with. I did find a small seam below some rocks, though, so there might be another spot that was missed.

Edit: the main problem with the vertex shading is that it changes along claim borders. If the transition between vertex shades looked natural it wouldn't be a problem, but it doesn't really look natural.
Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Very nice work west of Teyn! I don't see any discontinuity ingame (and this includes vertexshading). Small issues:

flora_grass_01 ATNorth_TR_4-18-Hla (3,-17) 30793 -133389 200 "shoudl this be floating?"

Terrain_rocks_AI_03 ATNorth_TR_4-4-Hla (-5,-13) -34074 -104529 890 "some heightmap smoothing might be good near this"
Post Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:12 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

The proposal is done. I have yet to properly check it over myself, though, and want to give everyone else some time to check for errors or suggest changes and improvements, so I'll hold on to the file for a little longer.
In a moment of stupidity I placed a few cave entrances but forgot to note down their locations. I'm pretty sure I have managed to get them all listed below, though, but that will be another thing I'll keep my eyes peeled for when I check the file over.

CHANGELOG:
-tried adding a sort of pagoda at 20487, -127180, 2341 (2, -16) with a view of Vivec Palace. Worth keeping?
-made it clearer that the small tributary is actually a tributary rather than the source of the delta.
-made some further minor adjustments to the delta topography to make it flow more naturally.
-finished underwater detailing.
-detailed the coast and water just north of Andothren a little. I don't really want to do any more work there until Andothren and the Dwemer ruin look as they are supposed to.
-added a few cave entrances and an ancestral tomb, but only to the Askaaed Coast and Thirr River Valley. I also replaced that Velothi tower with an ancestral tomb as discussed.

new dungeons:
-39768, -112682, 1018 (-5, -14) - bandit cave? outlaw? critters?
-25954, -101941, 1606 (-4, -13) - smuggler cave
-17143, -112052, 4034 (-3, -14) - cave... outlaw? vampire?
-4011, -122352, 2447 (-1, -15) - cave... wizard? empty? ruin? daedra worshipper? critters?
21951, -128640, 221 (2, -16) - grotto? smuggler cave?
28434, -143490, 1659 (3, -18) - ancestral tomb
23421, -140125, 161 (2, -18) - recluse? outlaw? fisherman?

I was considering placing a cave on the flat rock below the Teyn lighthouse in (-4, -12), but it seems an odd place for a smugglers cave or ancestral tomb, so I left it for now.



TR_m4_NorthAT_v0.019.ESP
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Post Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



The pagoda sounds cool
(not using MGE, so leaving it at how it sounds)


Not always relevant comments from non-exty person:



terrain_rock_ai_07 ATNorth_TR_4-1-Hla (0,-15) 4168 -115013 -872 "seafloor has some land gaps with Morrowind.esm to the north"
cliff racer00000000 ATNorth_TR_4-18-Hla (4,-15) 36467 -119439 2109 "should there be cliff racers here on the inner sea?" = editing vanilla

TR_terrain_AI_cliff_03 ATNorth_TR Andothren (0,-16) 5372 -124596 -412 "caspermeister (both on the side and several places on top, look all around)"
ex_dwrv_bridge10 ATNorth_TR_4-1-Hla (0,-15) 7758 -122742 2891 "clean-cut bridge could be replaced by the ruined-end models (are they in Data yet?)"
ex_dwrv_ruin_tower00 ATNorth_TR_4-1-Hla (0,-15) 5751 -119862 2370 "very floating"
door_dwrv_load00 ATNorth_TR_4-1-Hla (1,-16) 8526 -125831 2887 "these aren't the usual exterior doors? or not the right scale? extra darkness around is jarring"

Mummy_04 ATNorth_TR_4-4-Hla (-5,-14) -36385 -110031 1203 "is this supposed to be a charred corpse? mummies are ashlander, shouldn't be in ruined houses"
Mummy_06 ATNorth_TR_4-4-Hla (-5,-14) -35221 -110581 1147 "idem"


flora_comberry_01 ATNorth_TR_4-1-Hla (1,-16) 14670 -130576 639 "float/sits on rocks"

ex_de_docks_steps ATNorth_TR_4-18-Hla (2,-16) 20484 -126190 1866 "something (planks...?) missing here on the way to pagoda"

ex_common_lighthouse TR_4-14 (-4,-12) -26576 -95424 1744 "wasn't there some agreement that the seyda neen lighthouse model should not be reused?"
ex_de_docks_steps_01 TR_4-14 (-4,-12) -27008 -95424 896 "top of the stairs block the way back down"
ex_common_plat_cent TR_4-14 (-4,-12) -26836 -95442 917 "caspering (ends of horizontal wood under planks)"
com_sack_02_chpfood3 Teyn, Lighthouse -77 336 -646 "nice idea but collision ensues. Under the stairs on the other hand, player can blend into rock."
ex_de_rowboat Teyn, Lighthouse -39 82 -401 "something (this?) is generating creaking sailing boat sounds"


Last edited by rot on Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
Post Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Thanks for spotting those. I'll see to fixing them after I update my other claim.
Post Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:46 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I'm dropping this file.

I'd still be willing to fix errors and do further work on it, but the proposal I claimed the file for is finished. As I mentioned earlier, I personally suggest that the next bit of work done on this file is merging the remaining interiors.

Either before or after that, some more dungeons could also be added to the inland Roth Roryn areas, primarily ancestral tombs, as dicussed in this thread.


After that, as I understand it, the following needs to be done, not necessarily in this order:

-fix land gaps with Vvardenfell, thereby altering a row of vanilla cells.
-adjust Gol Mok to conform to the coast. Do any other changes need to be made to it?
-finish the Andothren Detailing Project, the original thread linked for your convenience.
-re-do the Dwemer ruin overlooking Andothren. (Is that part of the Andothren Detailing Project, or separate?)
-fix dead-end road leading out of Roth Roryn.
-fix dead-end Daedric road.
-sink bottom right corner of land, moving i4-416 and i4-417 to the plantations to the south.
-make any smaller changes to vertex shading, flora distribution or terrain textures that might be required.
-NPCing
-cleaning the file

The following dungeons have been added to the file and require interiors:

-25954, -101941, 1606 (-4, -13) - a rocky cave that is hard to access without levitation. Maybe inhabited by a mage? A crystal cave?
-17143, -112052, 4034 (-3, -14) - a rocky cave a little off the beaten track, possibly inhabited by an outlaw or vampire, or just critters.
-4011, -122352, 2447 (-1, -15) - another rocky cave that is hard to reach without levitation. It could be inhabited by a wizard or witch of some description, or it could simply be empty or lead to a ruin, or something else could be done with it.
20691, -127719, 1600 (2, -16) - this used to be the entrance to i4-414, which could be relocated to the Velothi tower at -37010, -151541, 5290 (-5, -19), which appears to be lacking an interior. This door should instead lead to an ancestral tomb. I was thinking the tomb could belong to the family of some very important Indoril, possibly St. Llothis or St. Olms. It naturally wouldn't be a pilgrimage location or anything, but would probably be pretty well looked after.
21951, -128640, 221 (2, -16) - this could be a smuggler cave.
28434, -143490, 1659 (3, -18) - another Indoril ancestral tomb.
23421, -140125, 161 (2, -18) - a cave inhabited by a recluse who may or may not be an outlaw. He could be a fisherman, as the nearby shoal would probably be pretty good for fishing.

I also fixed some of the errors rot found as well as a few that I found. There are probably still a ton of caspering Terrain_rocks_GL_02 and Terrain_rocks_GL_04 around Roth Roryn...

terrain_rock_ai_07 ATNorth_TR_4-1-Hla (0,-15) 4168 -115013 -872 "seafloor has some land gaps with Morrowind.esm to the north" - I've been leaving those land gaps alone for now, as I don't want to touch vanilla cells without a clear go-ahead.

I'm guessing most of the Dwemer Ruin errors are more due to it being unfinished, as with Andothren errors.


flora_comberry_01 ATNorth_TR_4-1-Hla (1,-16) 14670 -130576 639 "float/sits on rocks"

ex_de_docks_steps ATNorth_TR_4-18-Hla (2,-16) 20484 -126190 1866 "something (planks...?) missing here on the way to pagoda" -
I accidently used the player stronghold scaffolding as opposed to the unscripted static version. Thanks for pointing that out.

I had overlooked those mummies. It looks like they are supposed to be charred corpses, but I'm not really sure whether it works, especially because they are still labelled 'Mummy'. Should they just be replaced with skeletons?


ex_common_lighthouse TR_4-14 (-4,-12) -26576 -95424 1744 "wasn't there some agreement that the seyda neen lighthouse model should not be reused?" - I haven't heard of it, and I know of at least one other instance of the lighthouse at Lake Boethiah. It doesn't seem like a bad idea, though.
ex_de_docks_steps_01 TR_4-14 (-4,-12) -27008 -95424 896 "top of the stairs block the way back down" - I raised the lighthouse a little
ex_common_plat_cent TR_4-14 (-4,-12) -26836 -95442 917 "caspering (ends of horizontal wood under planks)"
com_sack_02_chpfood3 Teyn, Lighthouse -77 336 -646 "nice idea but collision ensues. Under the stairs on the other hand, player can blend into rock." -
I tried my hand at a fix for the first error, but I'm not sure if it looks as good. I also tried to fix the second error, but it requires further testing to make sure that the doormarker works correctly.
ex_de_rowboat Teyn, Lighthouse -39 82 -401 "something (this?) is generating creaking sailing boat sounds" - yeah, there was a sound marker in the rowboat. I took the liberty of removing it; it's a nice idea, but the sound file isn't really suited for it.

cliff racer00000000 ATNorth_TR_4-18-Hla (4,-15) 36467 -119439 2109 "should there be cliff racers here on the inner sea?" - that's a vanilla cliff racer, unless I'm very much mistaken.



TR_m4_NorthAT_v0.020.ESP
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



New interior claims created with your descriptions, edited in some cases (no vampire next to Teyn, there's already an ancient one and it's supposed to be a newbie area; no smuggling if under a well-maintained high-profile Indoril tomb; ...)

i4-498-Hla
i4-502-Hla
i4-503-Hla
i4-504-Hla
i4-505-Hla
i4-506-Hla
i4-507-Hla

Also, the tombs being Indoril makes sense, but doesn't mean they'd all still be easily visited and maintained - some potential Temple/Indoril vs Hlaalu interference quest hooks there.
Post Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

rot wrote:
(no vampire next to Teyn, there's already an ancient one and it's supposed to be a newbie area; no smuggling if under a well-maintained high-profile Indoril tomb; ...)


Good point on the vampire.
I think the smuggling could still work. The smuggler cave is out of view of the ancestral tomb entrance, and neither the cave nor the tomb would be seeing anything like a constant stream of traffic. More to the point, the area is supposed to be heavily populated with smugglers.
Going from another angle, the two interiors side by side could work as a rough analogy for the two Houses and their relationship: the Indoril clinging onto the past and a nominal superior position while the Hlaalu almost literally undermine them and are firmly rooted in commerce and current affairs.

rot wrote:
Also, the tombs being Indoril makes sense, but doesn't mean they'd all still be easily visited and maintained - some potential Temple/Indoril vs Hlaalu interference quest hooks there.


Certainly. i4-505-Hla might not have it too bad if it does indeed belong to an important family, but I'd expect i4-506-Hla to be in need of a good cleaning, at the very least.
Post Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:22 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Derpaherp. New file with region paint and proper names, plus Gol Mok.


TR_AndothrenThirrNorth_v0.022.ESP
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_________________
"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
-Hippocrates
Post Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:22 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Update. Did some emergency patch-up work on Andothren, mostly removing huge caspers and fixing up the waterfall aqueducts on the west so they aren't moddy. Also removed two random cells called "Andothren" which aren't even in the city.

Andothren still needs some fine detailing, patching up, and the dwemer ruin needs a special lighthouse tower.



TR_AndothrenThirrNorth_v0.030.7z
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_________________
"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
-Hippocrates
Post Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:57 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

Would such a lighthouse be 'electrical' in the Dwemer sense, or be a gas-powered flame?
Post Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:31 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I'd personally favour an electric light of some description, if it is purpose-built. Really, though, that should be discussed in this thread. (This thread also discusses the topic).

Edit: Rather than the Dwemer ruin needing a lighthouse tower, it needs to be updated to fit our current concept, which requires more than just adding one tower. It needs to look good when seen from Andothren, for one thing.
Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Is there a todo list for this file? Either way, TODO is reviewing the NPC-quests claim 4-14 (see this thread in archive for relevant info)

Still here's a quest bug reported by Sslaxx from the alpha:

- script TR_m4_FA_FortAnc_Axe doesn't properly take quest states into account, you won't be able to pick it up if == 25 but you should.
(I'm also not sure I like how you can't pick it before the quest but that's a less likely one)

- edit, also Malchik:
"'Scout's guide to Teyn' there is a ref to Fort Firemoth 'only a mile of the shore' should be either 'off shore'"


Last edited by rot on Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I think my list in an earlier post is still pretty current, if likely incomplete:

Gnomey wrote:
[...]I personally suggest that the next bit of work done on this file is merging the remaining interiors.

Either before or after that, some more dungeons could also be added to the inland Roth Roryn areas, primarily ancestral tombs, as dicussed in this thread.


After that, as I understand it, the following needs to be done, not necessarily in this order:

-fix land gaps with Vvardenfell, thereby altering a row of vanilla cells.
-adjust Gol Mok to conform to the coast. Do any other changes need to be made to it?
-finish the Andothren Detailing Project, the original thread linked for your convenience.
-re-do the Dwemer ruin overlooking Andothren. (Is that part of the Andothren Detailing Project, or separate?)
-fix dead-end road leading out of Roth Roryn.
-fix dead-end Daedric road.
-sink bottom right corner of land, moving i4-416 and i4-417 to the plantations to the south.
-make any smaller changes to vertex shading, flora distribution or terrain textures that might be required.
-NPCing
-cleaning the file


I'd personally still like to see all interiors merged first and foremost. The road map would be another fairly straightforward project that could be done right away, same with sinking the corner of land, as the plantation has already been moved. I'm still not entirely sure if we reached a consensus on the Dwemer Ruin, or whether that requires more discussion. The light is, in my opinion, a rather minor issue, and I'd be for putting in a placeholder light source for now.

Andothren itself is a somewhat larger proposal, and I sort of lost overview on the city. I think we need to first make a list of issues with the city or things we want to implement, decide on how to fix those and then condense that into a to-do list. Off the top of my head, Sload's detailing work needs to be finished (some waterfalls, flora around the temple, canal meshes not matching up...) and the dock area needs to be extended. Beyond that, I'm fairly clueless at the moment. I personally see NPCing as the end-goal.
Post Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:45 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Arvisrend has the file for merging in ints.
Post Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:51 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Gnomey, you have i4-461 on your map, but the thread says it's an Andothren int. What is right and what is wrong?

And what should I do with the "i4-?"? Is it an unfinished one?

(Sorry for my slowness at this.)

Also, attaching an intermediate version of North AT, with ints 386, 408, 420-425, 415-418 merged in. I'll keep working on it tonight.



TR_AndothrenThirrNorth_v0.031.ESP.7z
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Post Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:55 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Sorry about that, I never got around to fixing that typo on the map. See the posts of Feb. 02 and 03 in this thread; basically i4-461, i4-462 and i4-463 should read as i4-261, i4-262 and i4-263. Those were the only errors found on the large map, but there were also a handful of interiors either mislabeled or missing from the Andothren map. (I think only two or three, but it might still be better to hold off merging Andothren ints for now for that reason).
As far as I know, the i4-? near the center of the map doesn't have an interior. However, it was an Ashlander yurt, I think, and it is pretty much the only interior solidly within the buffer zone, so either way its future is unclear.

In general, if you're not sure about an interior, just mention it here and otherwise skip over it. Either I'll be able to identify it right away, or I can look into it.

Just to put all of the corrections into one post, the i4-414 interior will probably be linked to another Velothi tower. (The westernmost i4-?). You can leave off of that one, too; it's an odd interior, and I'm neither sure whether we want to keep it in its current state or if it would even fit the new exterior. (Which as far as I'm aware is lacking a door, unless that door is off the map, which is an annoying possibility).
As far as I can recall, other than i4-417 and i4-416 being moved to the south merge as I mentioned earlier, the only other discrepancies with that map are the dungeon interiors that were created afterwards. If you don't have a list of those handy, I can hunt them down for you.

In the meanwhile, I'll see about updating those maps. (And if you'd rather wait for me to update the maps before continuing, I'd very much understand. There were frankly more issues with those maps than I remembered).
Post Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Thank you. I might end up waiting for the update of your maps even if I'd rather not -- the next days involve a lot of end-of-term grind for me.

By the way, I am not adding critters, and I am not doing anything about Andothren -- I would even hesitate to remove the unlinked ints currently in the file before I know that the city claim is in good hands.

Now that I'm already clutching at every straw to justify my procrastination, could I ask you (or seneca37) to share your opinion on i4-275 and i4-276? I am not against merging them, but I want a baseline of how much detail and quality we want from an interior these days to ensure that I correctly sift chaff from the wheat when merging.
Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:09 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I have no problem with the storage tower. It's unspectacular, but well-made, and it does make a lot of sense for the tower to be used for storage. (A ruthless Hlaalu in that region probably doesn't need a full-fledged guard tower; he'd be in his element).

The manor is considerably weaker. My first thought upon looking at it was that it could belong to a lone scholar with no staff and a good inheritance, who just plods between his bedroom, study and library, ignoring the rest of the manor. An alternative would be a scholar who has recently moved in. Neither really fits the profile given for Othras in that claim thread, but an NPCer might be able to run with it to make an intriguing character.
Another possibility would be that Othras spends most of his time in Andothren and does all of his social stuff there, only using his plantation manor as an oversized study, but I'm not sure if that's the direction we want to go with him.
In short, I wouldn't mind hearing another opinion on that one.

As far as sifting chaff from wheat, though, the latter is a fairly outstanding interior due to belonging to a plantation owner. If you see a random commoner house like that, I'd personally just include it, though as always adding a note might be good. I'm strongly considering looking through all of the interiors once they are merged, as my maps do at least accurately show the exterior locations of (most of) the interiors. In the end, it's easier and faster to do that with a merged file rather than individual downloads.

Edit: I wish you the best of luck with your end of term grinding, by the way.
Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:08 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Oh, if you are OK with improving ints post-merge, then I shouldn't bother with too much sanity checking. Good news!

I didn't realize that one of the ints was a storage tower -- I liked its clutteredness but I disliked the fact that much of its content was crates; but for a storage tower this isn't a problem. On the manor, I think we agree that the general emptiness and lack of interesting objects is the issue. If you think it's fixable in the North AT merge, then I'll just merge it in and let you handle the rest. I have no idea about the character we want to give Othras so far; can you give me a briefing?

EDIT: My next step is merging in 261, 275-281, 271-274, 265. I assume I can rely on these being correct? (I am doing homes first, dungeons later.)
Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:22 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

261 should be correct. It's the only Velothi temple you'll be merging. 275-281 are correct. 271-274 are all correct. (I'm pretty certain 273 is a yurt). 265 is also correct.

I don't think we have anything on Othras other than what is mentioned in the i4-275-Hla thread you linked: "the Othras family is ruthless and loyal to House Hlaalu" [...] "I envision Othras as a scholarly and ruthless person, kind of like Dren and his plantation." Those posts are ancient, mind you, but given that the surrounding area will be pretty thoroughly Camonna Tong/shady smuggler territory the concept is still pretty sound.

For what it's worth, my inclination would be to make Othras a bit player in Andothren politics who is neither especially important nor especially unimportant. He might play favourites more strongly than other major figures in Andothren, siding squarely with the Camonna Tong and not doing business with Imperials.
Post Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Done with this. Sorry for the time it took.

The following ints have been merged in, linked and pathgridded (unless stated otherwise):

civilized:
i4-408
i4-420 till i4-425
i4-415 till i4-418
i4-261
i4-273 (that ashlander yurt near a plantation which is in South AT, I believe)
i4-275 till i4-281
i4-334

dungeons:
i4-239
i4-238
i4-296
i4-306 only pathgridded (was already merged & linked), but this is the Dwemer ruin near Andothren and might need rework or even remerge anyway
i4-414
i4-419
i4-258 till i4-259

No NPCing has been done. No roads have been pathgridded (I could do that but I prefer Andothren to be finished beforehand). Deprecated books have been replaced and the file cleaned with tes3cmd, but empty cells have not been removed. Existing Andothren ints have been kept, but no new ones have been merged even if they are finished (because I don't know which file we will be editing Andothren on). No "i4-?" ints have been merged because probably they haven't been made. I happened upon a lone cave door in (-1, -15) which probably is missing an int; I haven't checked if it's one of the i4-?'s.



TR_AndothrenThirrNorth_v0.034.esp.7z
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Post Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Claiming to split off three cells to be used in this claim.
Post Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:32 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Done.

Edit:
Oops. I forgot to clean out two interiors cells (TR_i4-418 and TR_i4-419). Updated the file; version 0.037 is correct.



TR_AndothrenThirrNorth_v0.037.esp
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Post Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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