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rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



This is about fixing/replacing current bad entries. To illustrate, this is currently in the mod:

Code:
<rot> "To get on with Telvanni ...  delicate manners are also a big advantage."
<rot> there is much work to be done
<rot> "Don't kill during the night. We may be an organization of assassins, but we kill with honor." wtf
<rot> "Don't kill during the night."
<rot> "Black clothes may look fashionable, and they do, but their main function is to hide you at night so you can surprise your victim during the day."
<rot> "Specialize in multiple ways of killing."
<rot> "Huh? I don't really know."
<rot> that was worthy of a little advice entry
<rot> "Keep one's secrets to oneself."
<rot> Third person imperative. TR, now rebuilding grammar too
<rot> "Does that line ever work for you?" hah ok, that's not so bad
<rot> but it shouldn't be funny
<rot> "Don't bother those who don't want bothering." whut
<rot> "If you want to get something done, it's often best to give yourself a strict timeline. Getting lax can lead to complacency." getting a bit meta here huh
<rot> that's what you get at HIGH disposition from that NPC, mind you.
<rot> "Advice? I really don't know what to say. I can't think of anything you'd want me to tell you." moar, moar!
<rot> "I'm really not too well right now." thank you for this fabulous piece of advice
<rot> "Dunmer don't like naked people." ... ? (and no, this is random and not conditioned on you being naked)
<rot> "When you have enough money and with the right clothes, you can be attractive." that's from the same NPC, unsurprisingly
<rot> "Do not go in caves when you're not properly prepared, and always keep an Almsivi Intervention scroll somewhere in your inventory."
<rot> my inventory, yes. because I travel with my 'inventory'. yesh.
<Switzerland> This is pretty funny
<~TF|> the fuck is all this?
<rot> TR's "little advice" to the PC


- First step is cleansing TR_Data. List of offending topics below. I don't think it's a good idea for there to be any dialogue at all in that file, but it should at least be fixed;
- Once Data is clean, similar work on TR_Mainland,
- Then comes the harder and more interesting part - town name topics for whole nearby maps? scout/savant dialogue? local 'my trade's? In the case of the big generics (advice, secret, my trade) they could be handled as claims - everyone can propose some lines, one person picks and makes it whole.



entries rewritten here:

little advice :
Let me warn you. The quests for the Temple at lower ranks are not too difficult. But suddenly after you reach Curate rank, the quests get very, very difficult. Don't be surprised if you have to do a lot of skill-building outside the Temple before you can handle the higher rank quests. These tasks are tests of faith, yes, but they are also tests of good judgement and common sense.



How do you know when you've got a quest too tough for you? If it sounds too tough for you, it probably is. You must use your own judgement. Guild stewards don't really get to know your abilities. All they know is that a guy never comes back. They don't know if he got lost interest, or got eaten.

If possible, always take a single item at a time. It increases the risk, but it's excellent practice.

The services required at lower ranks in the Imperial cult are not very difficult or dangerous. But any task you do for the Oracles will be very difficult, very dangerous, and suited only for experienced, powerful, well-equipped adventurers.


Valenwood
Valenwood is a largely uninhabited forest wilderness. The coasts of Valenwood are dominated by mangrove swamps and tropical rain forests, while heavy rainfalls nurture the temperate inland rain forests. The Bosmer live in timber clanhouses at sites scattered along the coast and through the interior, connected only by undeveloped foot trails. The few Imperial roads traverse vast dense woodlands, studded with tiny, widely separated settlements, and carry little trade or traffic of any kind.


dwemer ruins
Dwemer artifacts taken from Dwemer ruins are very valuable, particularly Dwemer weapons, armor, and other enchanted devices, but they are protected as property of the Emperor by Imperial decree, and trade in such artifacts is illegal.



Here's my old TR_Data hitlist:


Code:
little advice



If you have the patience, sneak around everywhere you go. It will take longer, and may arouse suspicion, but it's excellent practice.

Don't risk a frontal confrontation with anything. When in doubt, sneak.

A good strategy is to paralyze your opponent, cast some kind of touch spell that does damage for awhile, like poison, then retreat to a farther range to cast your targeted, long range spells. Recast paralyze if the creature isn't dead by the time they reach you again.

Invest in potions to restore your magicka. In hostile territory, these potions can save you a lot of downtime. Even supposing you can find some safe place to get some rest and regain your magicka, who needs the aggravation?

Buy a spell of every type that you can find. This will give you the best options later when you're creating your own custom spells.

Buy paralyze as soon as you can. Keeps the creatures off you and allows you to cast those more elaborate spells.



- grammar:

Keep a good sense of your surroundings, no matter how good you are sneaking, you're always better off if no one is around.

The further from civilization you go, the worse the dangers. But there're exceptions to that rule.



- unfinished: whole series of "There are always some real experts in certain trades. Go seek them out; who knows what you might learn?" :
these should eventually be replaced/overwritten by trainer hints in Mainland.







little secret

I'm %Rank rank in %Faction, and I'd think twice about going down in a Daedric ruin without a crateful of potions and scrolls.

Remember: there's always a welcome for you in the Imperial cult. If you're having a hard time here in Morrowind, outlander, come home to the Imperial cult shrine. We'll find a use for you, and help you feel good while doing good. - "outlander" should be conditioned on DE

Port Telvannis is the best town to shop for spells, bar none.

Have you heard of this new secret cult, the Sixth House? It's been settled on Vvardenfell for some time, but I've heard that they're paying smugglers to try to bring in their goods to the mainland. Some kind of strange statues.

When you're wandering the wilderness, be wary of disease. The quarantine has done its best to keep the blight diseases and corprus from spreading to the mainland, but you never know. Always keep a couple of cure potions on you.






my trade

- "insure"-> ensure?
I am a noble of Great House Telvanni. I rule my lands and kinsmen by superior right of wit, will, wealth, and wisdom. In the ancient arcane traditions of House Telvanni, I am a wizard, skilled in all the crafts of war and rulership. By my own craft and dominion, I bring prosperity and power to my tower, honor to my house, and security to my kinsmen and retainers. So long as none dare challenge my sorcerous mastery, I thereby insure the health, wealth, and security of my house and its people.

- "fight bow or blade" correct?
I'm a scout. I know places, people, plants, paths, wind, and weather. I serve as guide for travelers and traders, or work as advance guard and pathfinder for expeditions. I know the geography of Morrowind, and the various geographic regions. My best defense is stealth, sneaking past trouble, but I can fight bow or blade, in various armor styles, when the job requires it.






acute disease

The most dangerous diseases plaguing Morrowind are astral vapors, brain fever, chills, rockjoint, red death, scarlet fever, both strains of witbane, and of course the blight disease and Corprus. Fortunately, the quarantine seems to be working, for blight diseases and Corprus are mostly restricted to Vvardenfell. Mostly.


colovian loaf

 - condition on race
Colovian loaves are not actually imported from Colovia, as they would be completely stale otherwise. It's the recipe that's Colovian, though even then it was adapted to Morrowind's native wheat. They can't compare to real Colovian bread, but they're still quite tasty.



other cults

The Daedric cult worship the bad Daedra; these cults and their worshipers are evil.

The Imperial cult are the official religion of the Empire. Their worship is false and unworthy, but their worshipers are no more good or evil than any superstitious savage.


durzog meat
- nourrishing -> nourishing


greeting 4
- "But %Faction" -> "But the %Faction"
- With such a high price on your head, everyone assumes you are a murderer. %Name don't know the details, and don't want to know. But %Faction won't be pleased. We're judged by your actions, and we don't need thugs like you getting us a reputation as murderers.


smuggling
- parentheses? (edit:nvm, that's from vanilla, not worth editing anyway)


skyrim
(topic exists for the Imperial Cult and Legion) probably needs entry for house Redoran, ... generic entry for Nords...




TR_Mainland topics list:



Code:
- deal with the default latest rumors (add some alternatives?)
"Have you noticed, for all its proclamations about protecting the rights of property and preserving law and order, the Imperial legion does little enough to capture and prosecute abolitionists? That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?"
- block "Solstheim" latest rumor from irrelevant parts of TR (everything but m5?)

- little advice

- little secret

- various
"geographic regions" - entry for map3, update generic TR entry
"geography of Morrowind"
"Gorne" - has no TR conditions, should Vv scouts have that?
"guild guide" - TR version for Scouts, Savants
"settlements in Morrowind" - add m2/m3
"silt striders" - on Vvardenfel
"challenges" - block Vv entries for map >= 3


- review 'Morrowind lore' vv-centric entries (add non-Vv alternatives)
"House Dunmer are the common Dark Elves of Morrowind. They live everywhere on Vvardenfell, in towns, villages, manors, and farms."
"Western Imperial colonists of various races live mostly in the towns and villages of southwest Vvardenfell."
"The native Dunmer cultures are the civilized Great House societies of House Redoran, House Hlaalu, and House Telvanni, each with their own architectures, customs, and traditions."
"The Imperial cult brings Imperial religion to the Empire's remote provinces. Imperial cult priests provide worship and services for the Nine Divines at Imperial shrines throughout Vvardenfell."
"Town and city Dunmer live either in the metropolitan style of Vivec City, the urban style of towns like Ald'ruhn, or the Imperial style of recent settlements like Caldera."
"In Telvanni District, the few Telvanni tower towns are just big villages with wizard towers." not for m1


( FOR LATER = M1/M2 exclusive stuff
- review all old names and see if they're still relevant, esp. included in forgotten topics, esp. all those crap 'ouad' river names, was 'Vahn Isle' removed?
(local area, Ashamul, Balsincag Diamond Mine, Boethian Mountains Lighthouse, Dansudipat Egg Mine, Kaushaspi Egg Mine, Molagreahd, Nethre-Pulu Egg Mine, Sodri-Tilur Egg Mine, Soludanni Egg Mine, Terendas Gold Mine, Varethan Ebony Mine, Veramus Iron Mine, Verdunasha-Beracavada Egg Mine)
LOL Ouadavohr)


Last edited by rot on Thu May 08, 2014 7:39 am; edited 8 times in total
Post Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:31 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Great list, rot. Seeing npcs use the word "quest" in in-game dialogue makes me cringe.
_________________
-Head of NPCs: Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Post Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Some of those lines certainly sound like they belong to a planning document rather than in-game dialogue. The 'quest' one is especially odd because Morrowind goes out of its way to call quests by any other name, like 'duties' or 'chores'.

As for replacing the dialogue, I suggest that something like a google drive document along these lines is set up to make contributing lines more convenient. The important part is figuring out what topics are needed and what information needs to be conveyed to the player, though, and for that looking at vanilla Morrowind makes for a pretty good start.

On the topic of Scout and Savant dialogue, for instance, the way vanilla Morrowind handles things is that Scouts will be able to tell you the location of nearby settlements while Savants will be able to tell you the location of any settlement on Vvardenfell. Some unique NPCs have more detailed information, such as how best to travel to a certain settlement.
As far as I can see, TR doesn't follow any convention on that point. The only people with the topic Adurin-Ouaka, for instance, are two unique NPCs and the inhabitants of Adurin-Ouaka. All sorts of people on the mainland will be able to tell you where -- or at least what -- Ashamul is, however. The one extreme can lead to frustration when trying to find a settlement, or when trying to get an idea of where you are on the map, while the other extreme will lead to a situation where every savant on the mainland will know the name and location of every single settlement in Morrowind down to the smallest Telvanni hamlet.
Post Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:31 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

As for "quest", there is bad precedent from vanilla. This is to explain, not to excuse. (To make things worse, some of this "advice" is completely wrong.)

Great work, rot! Though I like the "Does that line ever work for you?" line. Is it out of context? Is it randomized?

That guy talking in parentheses could be me...
Post Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:24 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



I think the Imperial Cult could get away with using 'quest' parsimoniously in late stages, but other than that it's a needless to say no, must remember to overwrite vanilla if it drools through

arvisrend wrote:
...


"Does that line ever work for you?" - nothing wrong, just cracked me up in the context of finding all those bananas. Parentheses aren't horrible but wouldn't encourage their use (unless recited texts), bit unnatural in spoken dialogue where it'd be marked through stronger pauses, usually denoted by "--"

Dirtying or fixing all of _Data's "little advice" etc. entries in ML: would work even after they're removed from Data, right?

Gnomey wrote:
...


Vanilla convention on Scouts/Savants seems to be the way to go. Should scouts get access to neighboring maps too? (filtering relies on m1-6, unless something special is done for them)

Btw I'm not saying gameplay advice is inherently wrong or anything, it's still the topic's primary function. Just has to stay in-character and believable. Let's try some examples I think vanilla doesn't give: (shared documents would be ideal yes, no idea how to do one soz)


Code:
Gather any gear from your fallen enemies? Why not try your hand at repairing the notches you've put there yourself. Makes good practice, and you don't risk damaging your own equipment.
(Smith, PC Repair < 40)


Code:
Try to sell a weapon to a smith -- they'll grab it, feel its heft, give it a few spins, point out all its flaws and then some, and give you a hard time about it all when it comes to the price, too. Try to sell a weapon to a pawnbroker -- all they'll think about it how much they can sell it for to the smith. And they make a living of it, the traders do, so you better believe they'll take their cut. You want to get the most out of what you collect? Just skip the middle man.
(Smith)


Code:
Get your hands on any bonemold gear from the natives? The material's a bit tricky. That said, even if you can't do it yourself, repair fees are a relatively cheap investment. You know how hard it is to bargain with flawed merchandise.
(Merchants, not DElf, PC Barter > 40)


Code:
A smith will overplay the slightest damage on a weapon, and even moreso when you're offering to sell. But smiths aren't the brightest tools in the shed either, and you can be smart. Don't let on that you're selling and get it repaired first -- you'll have a much easier time bartering once your blade shines the right way.
(Merchants, PC Barter < 40)


Code:
You look at the sky like one who's been plagued by cliff racers. Tell you what, if you get attacked on a path you're planning to travel back through -- leave the carcass in clear view. The pests usually know better than to hang around their dead.
(Scout/archer, Dead cliffracers > X /
Scout/archer, Dead diseased cliffracers > X )


Code:
Most beasts in the wild don't prey on their own. You wouldn't expect it, but that even goes for cliff racers. If you're planning to stay a while around a spot, take what you need from the kills but leave the carcasses right there to rot -- might deter others from swooping in, at least for a time.
(Scout, archer...)


assuming NPCs with good disposition on all the above. Some more ideas: tell PC not to rummage in a diseased creature's carcass... regional ingredient tips from alchemists... equivalent "sell to specialists" tips from relevant merchants (ingredients, etc.)... tips from agents/.../nobles on what skills to expect from people depending on their profession (when it comes to convincing/.../cajoling them, etc.)
Non-gameplay advice fits in too obviously, even wrong info if it's not excessively misleading and helps immersion. (foreign assassins/bandits warning you to be careful about which dunmer you kill, what with the rampant necromancy:
Code:

Back in the West, all you have to do is corner a guy, perhaps keep the noise down -- worst case scenario, silence the witnesses. Here in Morrowind? It doesn't matter that they're dead. If they saw your face and have any family, your troubles have just begun.


Last edited by rot on Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:33 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

rot wrote:
Vanilla convention on Scouts/Savants seems to be the way to go. Should scouts get access to neighboring maps too? (filtering relies on m1-6, unless something special is done for them)


The way vanilla seems to do things for scouts is that every settlement topic has entries filtered for nearby settlements. Tel Mora has entries for Sadrith Mora, Tel Mora and the Ahemmusa Camp, for example. So only scouts in Sadrith Mora, Tel Mora and the Ahemmusa Camp have entires for Tel Mora.
A scout in Tel Mora has entries for every Telvanni settlement on Vvardenfell including Tel Fyr as well as for the Ahemmusa and Zainab camps.
As such scouts are very useful for finding out about nearby locations, but pretty unreliable as far as more distant locations are concerned.
All savants in Morrowind have an entry for Tel Mora.

I'd argue that, as savants are less tied to the surrounding countryside than scouts, it's fine if they only have entries for the map they are on. Scouts would bridge the borders between maps, as their dialogue is not tied to the map but to their concrete location.
Post Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Here are some potential topics for non-Dunmer

Code:
Dunmer are very sensitive about necromancy -- especially when it comes to distinguishing one kind from another. A hedge-wizard conjurer tampering with corpses in a cave? That's bad. Priests raising the dead to guard tombs? Perfectly fine. Don't try to argue that they're the same deal. You'll only end up offending the natives, and in this province that can prove fatal.

Mage, Enchanter, ect non-DE


Code:
Most Dunmer -- especially those from Indoril lands -- love making a show out of their supposed cultural superiority. If you ever have to do business with a particularly sanctimonious one, let him say his piece and keep your talk focused on the matter at hand. Ignoring veiled insults and racist sentiments is the only way to get along with the natives.

Merchant, noble, ect non-DE


Edit: Also, I rewrote the Temple topic at the top of your list, rot:

Code:
Your duties as a member of the Temple become more challenging as you climb in the ranks. Don't be surprised if you have to undertake additional studying and skill-building before you take on the responsibilities of the higher priesthood. Tests of faith often double as tests of one’s good judgment and aptitude.

Temple members

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Post Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:38 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Cheers Yeti!

Anyone have views on generic skyrim topics, or Valenwood? Tagged that one because of "timber", dunno about the rest:

Valenwood is a largely uninhabited forest wilderness. The coasts of Valenwood are dominated by mangrove swamps and tropical rain forests, while heavy rainfalls nurture the temperate inland rain forests. The Bosmer live in timber clanhouses at sites scattered along the coast and through the interior, connected only by undeveloped foot trails. The few Imperial roads traverse vast dense woodlands, studded with tiny, widely separated settlements, and carry little trade or traffic of any kind.

Gnomey wrote:
Scouts would bridge the borders between maps, as their dialogue is not tied to the map but to their concrete location.

I guess that means individual conditioning for scouts in the wilderness / small locations. Something for NPCers to consider
Post Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:36 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

How's this?

Quote:
Valenwood is a largely uninhabited forest wilderness. The coasts of Valenwood are dominated by mangrove swamps and tropical rain forests, while heavy rainfalls nurture the temperate inland rain forests. The Bosmer tribes live in settlements built from bones, animal hides and living wood. Few foreigners venture into the heart of the forest, unless they have business in the great tree-city of Falinesti.

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Post Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

rot wrote:
I guess that means individual conditioning for scouts in the wilderness / small locations. Something for NPCers to consider


Yeah, I think there aren't actually a lot of non-Ashlander scouts outside of settlements (including the four Ashlander camps) on Vvardenfell, and Ashlander scouts outside of the four Ashlander camps wouldn't necessarily know much or want to know much about non-Ashlander settlements, so it isn't really an issue in vanilla Morrowind.
Naturally TR doesn't follow that scout placement convention, and, as the mainland is supposedly safer and more densely populated on average than Vvardenfell, it makes sense to ignore that convention.

It's a good place to have unique dialogue.
There could also be generic catch-all entries which would act more like the savant's dialogue, bound to the map or -- if possible -- region.
Post Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Thanks gro,
I think you also had something figured out about dwemer artifact legality?


Gnomey wrote:

There could also be generic catch-all entries which would act more like the savant's dialogue, bound to the map or -- if possible -- region.


Map-bound for cities can do the trick if custom directions are too much of a hassle; otherwise it's also possible to make different tag-scripts for scout filters if there are several of them in the same cross-map region
Post Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Quote:
How do you know when you've got a quest too tough for you? If it sounds too tough for you, it probably is. You must use your own judgement. Guild stewards don't really get to know your abilities. All they know is that a guy never comes back. They don't know if he got lost interest, or got eaten.


Code:
Guild stewards don't always know whether your abilities measure up to the tasks they hand out. If a guy never comes back from a job, they have no way of knowing if he lost his way, lost interest or got himself killed. Use your own judgement to avoid getting in over your head.


Quote:
If possible, always take a single item at a time. It increases the risk, but it's excellent practice.


Code:
If you're serious about making your living as a thief, practice stealing whenever you can. Snatch a plate here, a amulet there. It's a risky way to learn, but you'll sharpen your skills over time.


Quote:
The services required at lower ranks in the Imperial cult are not very difficult or dangerous. But any task you do for the Oracles will be very difficult, very dangerous, and suited only for experienced, powerful, well-equipped adventurers.


Code:
Lower-ranked members of the Imperial Cult aren't usually given tasks that put them in any serious danger. But once you've reached the upper ranks, where you're assigned duties by the Oracles themselves, you should be prepared to face difficult trials. No one ever said serving the Nine would be without risk.


Quote:
A good strategy is to paralyze your opponent, cast some kind of touch spell that does damage for awhile, like poison, then retreat to a farther range to cast your targeted, long range spells. Recast paralyze if the creature isn't dead by the time they reach you again.


Code:
The best mages know when to use different spells together. One good strategy is to paralyze an opponent and cast some manner of spell that will continue to hurt them while they're frozen in place. Then retreat to a safe distance and switch to long-ranged spells. If they're still standing after that, recast paralyze before they have a chance to take a swing at you.

_________________
-Head of NPCs: Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Post Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:35 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

rot wrote:
Thanks gro,
I think you also had something figured out about dwemer artifact legality?


"Don't even think about smuggling Dwemer artifacts across the border. The Empire has banned all unlicensed exports of ancient treasure. Sell anything you find locally, in Morrowind. The provincial authorities take a more relaxed view."

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Post Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



All great, think that was all on background-significant topics at least in Data.

Yeti wrote:
Quote:
A good strategy is to paralyze your opponent, cast some kind of touch spell that does damage for awhile, like poison, then retreat to a farther range to cast your targeted, long range spells. Recast paralyze if the creature isn't dead by the time they reach you again.


Code:
The best mages know when to use different spells together. One good strategy is to paralyze an opponent and cast some manner of spell that will continue to hurt them while they're frozen in place. Then retreat to a safe distance and switch to long-ranged spells. If they're still standing after that, recast paralyze before they have a chance to take a swing at you.


While you've rewritten it well I'd rather we do away with that last one on paralysis spells entirely, because it's probably bad advice (paralysis spells are way too expensive to cast for low-level characters?) while also being fully gameplay-oriented.

Is the suggestion that there is more to spellcasting than mirrored in gameplay ("allows you to cast those more elaborate spells") enough to keep the other one? (aside from that poor wording "Buy paralyze as soon as you can")


Ideas for flavor mage-oriented advice:
- don't set up recall spells in the middle of a busy street, [mysticobabble]finding a way around organic obstacles is built into the magic?[/] but you might still bump into somebody
- (old Telvanni edition:) don't recall somewhere you haven't visited in centuries/ages, the geology might not be the same...
- even if it feels good, don't abuse restoration spells when you're not wounded or you'll end up deaf/grow extra dead limbs/...
- be careful with powerful night-eye spells in daylight
- ...
Post Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



rot wrote:

- (old Telvanni edition:) don't recall somewhere you haven't visited in centuries/ages, the geology might not be the same...


...for a moment I took this as an inside joke since we're going to redo the Telvannis map :--D Great dialogue writing in this thread, you guys!

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Post Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:42 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Great work, people! Only some comments, apart from which these could easily go into Mainland or Data:

- Yes, "quest" as in "sacred quest" is okay, as long as it's not overused in the new age way.

- rot's Gather any gear from your fallen enemies? Why not try your hand at repairing the notches you've put there yourself. Makes good practice, and you don't risk nicking your own equipment. Not sure what the "nicking" here means. Hint at selling maybe?

- I particularly love the mild hints about respawn and corpse clearing. No need to condition them to Dead Cliffracers and whatever; better have several different versions using different critters to ensure that players get the point early on. Mention that good hunters salvage everything worthwhile from their kills and hide away the carcass so as not to scare away fellow species. Speaking of salvaging, we could have advice/secret topics about effects of certain ingredients.

- Yeti: your revamped guild steward dialogue will probably also need re-conditioning to Imperial Guilds. Just saying.

- I think there should be some little-secret responses lampshading the fact that the Imperial Guilds (and, to a lesser extent, other questgivers) give way more to their members than they usually get in return, providing free equipment but usually not even asking for tangible results unless one wants promotion. Most remotely intelligent Dunmer will probably assume the real purpose of the Guilds is building an elite semi-loyal to the Empire; and this is probably one of the causes for the Empire organizing this money sink indeed. Various NPCs should be highlighting this to the player -- e.g., fellow guildmembers on sufficiently high disposition, or anti-Imperial Dunmer on not-very-high disposition (if the player is a Dunmer and in a Guild, suggest that he is a stooge of the Empire; if the player is an Imperial, passively-aggressively hint to him that the Guild "ruse" is well-understood, as if he is somehow responsible for it). Guild members at high disposition should also stress that the player can use the equipment provided and even the travel money at their pleasure, but must not steal from the Guild or lie; essentially the whole Guild is a trial of loyalty (whether this is so or not!).

- There MUST be something about not stealing from merchants.

- I don't think there should be any little secret or whatever about Oracle quests. These aren't commonplace enough for people to understand them well. And the player will likely know what is at stake when they've advanced to the rank.

- Some hints about how to resist paralysis would be good. Feel free to include your favorite theory on the nature of scribs, if you can't help it. :P

As usual, I'll be leading from behind on this... (sorry, really.)
Post Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:51 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



arvisrend wrote:

- There MUST be something about not stealing from merchants.

Code:

Ever heard the tale of Harold the Dimwit? No? Perhaps you have, the title keeps changing. Either way, if you don't want it to become the tale of %PCName the Dimwit, remember what you've nicked from which merchants and don't try to sell them their own bloody merchandise.
Post Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Just tested: yes, editing/dirtying TR_Data.esm dialogue entries in Mainland properly carries through all necessary above/below data, so that they stay where they should whenif the entries are deleted from TR_Data. => it's safe to edit those into Mainland first as long as all dialogue is converted at the same time (would still be careful not to delete any of the entries that originate from Data in Mainland before they're indeed removed from Data)

---

Also noticing these same "little secret" are given by all factions as copied from vanilla,

"I'm %Rank rank in %Faction, and I'd think twice about going down in a Daedric ruin without a crateful of potions and scrolls."
"You want my advice, rookie? I've been around. I've risen to %Rank rank in the Legion by being smart and careful. And if I were you, I'd stay away from Daedric ruins until you have a little more experience, and a heftier kit bag." (PClevel < 6-8)

had only tagged them for the "I'm %rank in %faction" syntax, but this probably isn't something Cult bureaucrats or Temple high-ranks should be saying
Post Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:44 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



News: we have Von Djangos' permission to use his work in TR, which makes me happy since his mods have some very nice 'generic' dialogue entries (faction/class/race dependent "little secret" and "background") that are great improvements over the vanilla entries TR is currently copying.

Djangos Dialogue
Post Mon May 26, 2014 3:11 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

arvisrend wrote:

- rot's Gather any gear from your fallen enemies? Why not try your hand at repairing the notches you've put there yourself. Makes good practice, and you don't risk nicking your own equipment. Not sure what the "nicking" here means. Hint at selling maybe?


It can be British slang for stealing, but here it means putting a nick (a shallow notch or cut, a scrape) into your own armor.

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Post Tue May 27, 2014 12:55 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Brainstormed this topic when writing some dialouge for Almas Thirr. Thought I'd put it here.

Hlaalu Topic (Morrowind lore)
Code:
If you can’t tell an Indoril by their self-important airs, you’ll know you’ve meet one when they address their name. All of them go by Indoril something, something. In past ages, that’s how most Dunmer were named. House name first; personal name second; family name last. Now it’s mostly just our cousins of House Indoril who stick to that old tradition. Very typical of them.

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Post Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:16 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
klep
Lead Developer
23 Nov 2014

Location: Europe

Little typo
"you’ll know you’ve meet one"

I wouldn't have Hlaalu call the Indoril their cousins. Otherwise I like it.
Post Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:51 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Dragon32
Member
06 Apr 2008



To me this scans better:
Quote:

In past ages, that’s how most Dunmer were named: house name first, personal name second, family name last.
Post Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

At least one Hlaalu does it as well: King Hlaalu Helseth.

Symmachus appears to have been house-less, which is why Helseth doesn't have the third name. If he were the son of Athyn Llethan, he'd naturally be King Hlaalu Helseth Llethan, which to my ears doesn't really sound good, so all for the better. Given his pedigree, King Hlaalu Helseth Eadwyre by adoption or King Hlaalu Helseth Raathim through the mother's side would be other possibilities of debatable quality. It's probably best left as is.

You may want to address that aspect. (Either it's fine for royalty but self-important for Indoril, or they think Helseth is self-important as well, both of which are reasonable. In the latter case, though, perhaps the entry should be be reserved for minor Hlaalu, so perhaps filtered for Hlaalu below a certain rank).
Post Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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