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Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

This is a thread for proposing and discussing any odd exterior claims that exist outside of sections. I do not expect this thread will be used much.

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The following claim has already been put up. It can be seen here: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=327268#327268

The idea of a Thirr River Delta exterior claim has been around for a while, and more recently we decided to go ahead with it. However, as this is a very important claim, I'd like to make sure that we get it right, and as there is currently no thread for discussing potential exterior claims, and the matter is unlikely to come up again, at least anytime soon, I might as well make a thread to discuss this particular one. Note that I do plan to put up this claim very soon; this is not something to be mulled over for months on end.

As this claim does not strictly belong to either the Andothren-Thirr section or the Old Ebonheart section, I'm putting the thread here for now. I'll move it once I figure out where it should go. (My tendency would be to roll it in with Andothren-Thirr, as the Old Ebonheart section is mainly concerned with the city itself, which is just outside of the proposed claim borders).

My proposal for the delta islands claim:



The image is largely an example; the exact shapes of the islands are unimportant. What is important:

-the delta should look like a delta.
-ships can comfortably pass through at least one channel.
-the delta does not extend too far north of Old Ebonheart; we don't want to shrink the Inner Sea.
-there is a good reason for there not being a bridge or series of bridges spanning the delta; one idea is that the islands are uneven with different heights, (the presence of cliffs makes for a good start), another is that the water of the delta is very wild for geographical or (if there's a really good story behind it) fanciful reasons.
-the claimant should avoid deleting references, the buildings of the small Hlaalu plantation in the bottom left corner aside. Underwater assets can be moved to the channels, above-water assets can be moved to the new islands. (From my experience this also greatly speeds up and facilitates the work).
-the flora on the islands should be a fusion of Ascadian Isles and Thirr River flora, as seen on the islands to the northwest.

Is there anything I should add/change, or is the above fine?



Last edited by Gnomey on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:51 pm; edited 6 times in total
Post Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Seneca37
Lead Developer
10 Feb 2014



Possibly include fixing some of the bare spots (need more rocks) on the N.W. side of the O.E. castle island.
Post Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:16 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I'm a little hesitant to draw the castle cell into the claim, as that would put the castle off-limits to other exterior changes until the claim is completed. I think the changes you mention would be better handled in the section file itself.
Post Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:33 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Decided to move the thread here after all.

The Thirr River Delta claim will include the six cells as shown. I'll see about putting up the claim as soon as the cells have been split off from the section files.

---

As discussed in today's Skype meeting, we might also want to put the southernmost Thirr River Valley territory (at least on the east bank of the Thirr) up for claiming.

I'm not sure if A should be included in the claim or not; B could be a second claim or could be included in the first.

The only notable feature of this claim is the Hlaalu player stronghold Nav Andaram. Aside from being a player stronghold, this location will play a pivotal role in the Hlaalu questline, and quite possible the Indoril and Dres questlines as well.
That being said, while Nav Andaram should certainly be discussed, as it is a player stronghold I don't think it requires too much planning, at least compared to other cities. All that is important, as far as I'm concerned, is that it at least has some sort of jetty with a ship and a ferry, (probably a skiff or something), a manor for the player, and it should probably look somewhat fortified.

Otherwise, this is just more TRV.



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Post Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:59 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Terrifying Daedric Foe
Developer
26 Aug 2010

Location: England

So a Hlaalu PC will end up with two stongholds? Nav Andaram on the mainland and Rethan Manor on Vvardenfell?
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Post Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Probably. The status of the Rethan manor is actually fairly unclear; as of this thread, the popular direction seems to be to simply give the Rethan manor to Raynasa Rethan, or some other NPC, from the start. I'm not against the idea of the player having two strongholds either, mind, and think that could be balanced for the five houses if we so desire.
Post Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ragox
Developer
20 Jul 2013



Terrifying Daedric Foe wrote:
So a Hlaalu PC will end up with two stongholds? Nav Andaram on the mainland and Rethan Manor on Vvardenfell?

I think that's great. One can feel really influential thereby Smile
The stronghold location also seems very strategic, I like that.
Post Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the final draft of the Thirr River Delta claim:

Thirr River Delta

Use the attached file, and check the local map; my suggestion is to go with three islands as shown, the two flanking islands detailed to match the islands to the northwest, while the long central island would be a rugged ridge of Ascadian Isles rock sticking out of the water.
You do not have to stick to that configuration, but do try to pay attention to the overall appearance of the delta; the aim is to make it at least appear halfway natural:

Other things to watch out for:
-ships should be able to comfortably traverse the delta through at least one channel.
-the islands should not extend too far north of Old Ebonheart; we don't want to shrink the Inner Sea.
-there should be a good reason for there not being a bridge or series of bridges spanning the delta; going by the local map, the reasons would be that the two wide channels are too deep and (though this would not be represented in-game) their waters too swift to make building a bridge convenient, and the islands are of uneven elevations.
-the Hlaalu farmstead in the bottom left cell should be removed, and the corner of land it is on should be submerged/made into an island, as shown in the local map.
-the remaining spur of land in the bottom left of the claim can be beefed up with AI rock and TR_terr_TRV_# meshes to look more solid; it juts into the Thirr creating a chokepoint, and might as well look the part.
-ideally, avoid deleting references, the farmstead aside. Underwater assets can be moved to the channels and above-water assets can be moved to the new islands. This both (somewhat) preserves the work of previous modders and greatly speeds up and facilitates progress on the claim, at least in my experience.

You can download the latest Andothren-Thirr north merge and Old Ebonheart section files to get a better overview of the area, but no border-matching is necessary for this claim.



TR_4-50-Hla.esp
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Post Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Looks like a good plan, though we should also comment on in the claim description whether we want new interior areas on the islands and the surrounding waters (caves or shipwrecks). Do we want/need them? If hidden in a cool fashion a sunken Imperial warship would be nice (turned upside-down to hide the sails).
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Post Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:36 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

I have the time to do this kind of work now. Want me to do so?
Post Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:48 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Rats wrote:
Looks like a good plan, though we should also comment on in the claim description whether we want new interior areas on the islands and the surrounding waters (caves or shipwrecks). Do we want/need them? If hidden in a cool fashion a sunken Imperial warship would be nice (turned upside-down to hide the sails).


Good point. My suggestion:

The underwater portion of this claim can contain grottos and shipwrecks; including the wreck of an Imperial warship. (Make sure to hide the sails, perhaps by turning the ship upside-down).

Above-ground there should be no obvious dungeons; I'd actually suggest a fisherman's shack or two. An animal den could also work, or perhaps an ancestral tomb. Any smugglers should keep to the western side of the delta, where the channels between the islands are narrower.
Post Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

On Nav Andaram, Swiftoak brought my attention to the fact that Sload already created a rough exterior for it:



I'm not sure whether it would be worth the bother to try and locate the file, as that exterior is still rather rough, but I think we can use it as an example of what the stronghold should end up roughly looking like.
Post Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Aeven wrote:
I have the time to do this kind of work now. Want me to do so?


Sounds good to me!

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Post Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:40 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Would it make sense to turn Gnomey's island proposal into an actual claim in the system, or should we contain that work within the Old Ebonheart Section?
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Post Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:13 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Yeti wrote:
Would it make sense to turn Gnomey's island proposal into an actual claim in the system, or should we contain that work within the Old Ebonheart Section?
I believe the claim you are talking about has already been made.
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Post Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:28 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Oh, I see. In that case, I'm an idiot. Laughing Pay no attention to my misinformed rambling.
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Post Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:52 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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