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Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Gnomey wrote:
The alternative, as I see it, is to bring Dondril in line with the other shack villages, which it does not currently appear to be to me. Or axe it, but I don't think anyone wants to do that. Or come up with a better reason for Dondril to be exceptional.
I don't see Dondril as exceptional at all. I see it as just another farming hamlet on the Indoril side of the Thirr River Valley, like the ones south of Roa Dyr, only large enough to warrant naming the exterior cell. It will look much less exceptional once we remove the palisade.

I think giving in-depth back story on what happen to the Indoril peasant population on the other side of the Thirr falls on the side of adding too much minuscule detail. We're not making Morrowind as it theoretically exists in the fictional world of Tamriel. We're creating a scaled computer game version of it, which necessitates paraphrasing its history.

Discussion of specific settlements, however, should take place in appropriate sectional threads. The Othrensis discussion, for instance, can continue here. Focus on painting Indoril settlements in broad strokes in this thread (I feel a little silly suggesting this, seeing as I've been the one focusing on settlement-specific stuff so far). Mr. Green

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Post Thu May 29, 2014 1:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

I don't believe that Dondril's palisade should be removed. It is a defining feature of the village and I don't think a reasonable player would notice anything off about it.

Also, Dondril's name might need changing. Two other shack villages are two syllables and start with D, so we would have Dondril, Dreynim, and Darnim. If possible, though, one of the -nims would be changed, since Dondril is a good name and those two are much too similar.
Post Thu May 29, 2014 5:06 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Tondollari wrote:
I don't believe that Dondril's palisade should be removed. It is a defining feature of the village and I don't think a reasonable player would notice anything off about it.



Although the palisade is not fitting for a simple farming village, I must admit that it does make the town seem very unique. If it is not going to be used here, it should be used somewhere else.

I too agree that one of the town names should change. If it is not Dondril, it should probably be Darnim. (Dreynim, with Dreynim Spa, would be very difficult to change.)
Post Thu May 29, 2014 6:04 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

A rather ugly split, but bear with me. This discussion was carried over from this broader thread, so that we can all discuss the minutiae of Dondril.

Should Dondril have a palisade?
What is the purpose of Dondril? (Currently farming, I suggested a narrative purpose in the linked thread, others have suggested having a palisade as the purpose, or at least point).
Should Dondril get its name changed? As this question came up due to the similarity of the name Dondril to Dreynim and Darnim, two other Indoril shack villages, those names can also be discussed.
Post Thu May 29, 2014 6:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

I don't see any good reason to remove the palisade.

The people of Dondril work the surrounding fields. The entire idea is they communally do so, and the fields are owned by the local nobility. The palisade is the local lord's way of returning the favour, as nonsensical in defense terms as it may be. It might even be used to round up the farmers for whatever need.

As for the name, I'm all for changing it.

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Post Thu May 29, 2014 9:11 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Each log in the palisade is a separate static, giving it a cobbled together look and raising ref counts in the cell far above the surrounding area. The village doesn't need something to make it stand out. It shouldn't stand out, in my opinion. It should blend in with the rest of the region's shack farming.

I'm fine with changing the name.

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Post Thu May 29, 2014 3:10 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



I'd rather see Darnim or Dreynim changed than Dondril.
Post Thu May 29, 2014 5:11 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

You know, on second thought, I don't really see a reason to change the name, unless someone can come up with a argument for why it is bad by itself. So what if a bunch of villages happen to start with the letter D?

I think we're getting a little too caught up in the "everything needs to change" mentality in this case.

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Post Thu May 29, 2014 7:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Because its confusing to players, this seems like a no brainer to me. Darnim or Dreynim should change because they're just unacceptably close to one another.
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Post Thu May 29, 2014 9:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Morrowind relies heavily on verbal and written directions, so having the largest Indoril shack villages all have names with the same number of syllables and the same starting letter can indeed lead to confusion. We could of course run with it, perhaps having some wayward outlander in Darnim who was trying to get to the Dreynim Spa or something along those lines.
Post Thu May 29, 2014 9:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

I don't think we need to heavily change anything at all. I just think one of the three D's needs to change.

Darnim
Dreynim

They're only off by a few letters. I remember thinking to myself some time ago why the names were so similar.
Also, whatever happens to the palisades in the village is fine with me. I just hope that they will be used elsewhere, if not here.
Post Thu May 29, 2014 10:33 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I think Dreynim is not as bad a name as Darnim (which is basically "Darn him", so I would prefer if Darnim were changed. Maybe something with some Ks? We don't have a lot of K towns in Morrowind, which is a bummer.
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Post Fri May 30, 2014 12:17 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I agree that Darnim should change. I think the name should be 1 word and consistent with the general "sound" of these names:

Akamora, Almalexia, Othrensis, Dondril, Dreynim, Bosmora, Gorne, Roa Dyr, etc

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Terrifying Daedric Foe
Developer
26 Aug 2010

Location: England

Kanril
Kelmora
Kuunis

Just some ideas.

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Post Fri May 30, 2014 10:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Sload wrote:
Dondril
A shack town in the Thirr River Valley. The main town under the rule of Indoril Draler Ilvi. Is fortified.

Adjustments: Might it be appropriate to include a very small Velothi style component in this town? Like a town hall and a temple?
Haplo wrote:
think a Velothi temple would be a good addition to the outskirts of Dondril. Or better yet, if we can place the largest Velothi building that will fit in place of the hideous "inn" in the middle (four shacks put together) and give it a Temple interior.
For the record, I support removing Dondril's inn and fitting a Velothi Temple into its space. Preferably it should use the standard Velothi Temple mesh without the courtyard piece.
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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Velothi temples consistently use both the temple building mesh and the archway mesh and are usually located peripherally. might i suggest replacing the inn with some other Velothi building (which could let rooms as one of its functions?) and Temple just outside the walls of the city?
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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Sounds fine to me.
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Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

That sounds good. The central Velothi dwelling maybe serves as an office for Draler Ilvi('s staff)?
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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I say make it the home of the local hetman. I don't think Indoril nobles need staff in villages under their control.
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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I took a look at Dondril in the CS, and there is enough room for two Velothi houses to be placed in the location of the inn. (Without removing the exterior raised sitting area). So we might be able to fit the hetman and some form of inn, though it would have to be a very small inn. Alternatively, a Velothi tower could be placed there in the style of the old watchtower in my 5-9 claim; the hetman could live in the top and the bottom could either be a barracks or inn.

Edit1: I made a quick mock-up for the heck of it:



This uses the ex_vivec_h_13 and ex_vivec_h_03 shells, but wouldn't work with roerich's interior due to the door location. Edit2: though the door could be moved to fit without changing too much.


Last edited by Gnomey on Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:18 pm; edited 3 times in total
Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



rot recently pointed out this showcase by roerich, a Velothi tavern. does it fit a shell that could be put there + a hetman's home?

EDIT: Why says it doesn't fit any exterior shell, hmm..
EDIT2: I think it could be fit into an ex_vivec_h_13 or _15 without causing any negative play experience. Its a great int.

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Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:48 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

My proposal for Dondril: I'd like to make a Velothi watchtower like the one pictured above in Dondril, probably using roerich's inn interior for the ground floor. (So it would only require a new hetman home, and for all I know we may have a spare Velothi int lying about that could do the job).

I'd also move Roa Dyr's temple to Dondril. I think there are a few good places for it nearby; my first choice would be replacing the field just south of Dondril with the temple, my second choice would be placing it just east of Dondril, where the reference density is a little low, and moving any models that end up under the temple off to the sides, thereby increasing the reference density there.
Post Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

In light of Vul, some changes to my proposal above:

-Dondril will not have a temple. The idea of some sort of smaller shrine might be worth discussing, but that sort of thing can be added later.
-roerich's interior will be used in Vul instead.

The plan otherwise remains the same. It is possible that we could find existing interiors for the hetman and inn, but I do not think making two new interiors should be a problem, and would go with that.
The inn, aside from providing beds for travellers, could also provide beds for Indoril guards who are in the area, much like the barracks in Vul.
Post Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:55 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I'm not sure an inn is needed in Dondril when Vul is so close by (and Old Ebonheart and Almas Thirr to an extent). Otherwise, I'm fine with any improvements you can bring to Dondril.
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Post Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:21 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Ah, good point. A craftmer's hall might be a good alternative purpose for the large interior, assuming that Dondril has an industrial focus like other Velothi settlements, which would be another thing to discuss. Otherwise that interior could just contain some beds for Indoril guards as well as a small public shrine or something like that.
Post Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

First, screenshots of the watchtower I added:


There are two new interiors:
Dondril, Hetman's House - Hetman is a somewhat sloppy but severe individual who mostly keeps to his house. He doesn't take kindly to outlanders barging in unannounced, and will probably be rather short with the player on first greeting. He has good relations with House Indoril, though, and will be considerably more pleasant if the player is a member. (He's friendly with the Indoril guards posted to and near Dondril).
Dondril, Craftmer's House - dedicated to Meris (farmers and labourers); I'm not quite sure what would go on here, and think this could be discussed. My first thoughts would be preparing goods to be shipped out of the region, but essentially making it a warehouse may be dull. It could have beds for guards either way, and maybe some sort of shrine to Meris.
While it might be possible to find a spare interior in Almas Thirr or Othrensis, I'd make these two from scratch.
I also did some other work on Dondril, as noted in the Indoril-Thirr Section File thread.
Post Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Those three windows look a tad too low on the base of the guard tower (they shouldn't touch the ground, I don't think), but otherwise this looks like quality work, Gnomey.
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Post Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:16 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I can raise them if they don't look good. The watchtower is supposed to be partially buried, though, anyway.
Post Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sasquatch2o
Developer
15 Jul 2014



I must admit that watchtower looks amazing. Do raise the windows slightly though. It'd make a really cool apothecary. Could have an area for preparing ingredients a couple tables (potted plants) and a planter by the window to make that a greenhouse. Hasnt been done yet, that would make it unique.
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Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Those three bottom windows looks like urinals!
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Post Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:02 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

An astute observation. Evidently I have not been staring at enough public washrooms lately... Hopefully raising them will lessen the effect. They look larger in-game, so the player might not make the connection, but it's also quite possible that they will just look like giant urinals instead, which is arguably much worse. Razz

As for the idea of a greenhouse, I think that should work quite well, though I don't think it should fill the whole interior. Perhaps some of Almas Thirr's botanical garden interior can be worked into this. At this point, I'm pretty much for leaving the exact function of the interior up for the claimant to decide; as long as it is roughly recognizable as a more-or-less secular building dedicated to Meris I'll probably be fine with it.
Post Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:50 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Updated Dondril dialogue. Been working on this for a while.


Dondril Dialouge.pdf
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Post Wed May 27, 2015 10:42 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

A few notes; most of these are probably more oversights than anything else:
Dondril wrote:
Our village rests in the western foothills of the Thirr River Valley.
Sounds a bit odd, as all Indoril lands are on the eastern bank of the Thirr. Did you mean eastern foothills? Dondril looks pretty far east to me.
Little advice wrote:
A Temple infirmary to the northwest acts as a refuge for the sick and injured.
Going off of the same map, that should read 'north'. Pretty directly, even.
Little secret wrote:
[...] Vhul, a village to the southwest.
Strictly speaking, south-southeast, but anything between 'south' and 'southeast' would work.
Roa Dyr wrote:
That’s our lord’s estate.
I'd prefer if you used another word instead of estate, such as 'chapel', as you did in Vhul dialogue.
Specific place wrote:
[...] the hetman lives in the lower floor of the watchtower, which overlooks the marketplace.
She lives in the upper floor, actually, above the craftsmer hall, which would itself be worth mentioning.

Excellent work here as well.
Post Thu May 28, 2015 9:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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