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C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

The Argonians deep in Black Marsh aren't going to speak the language you're used to on Vvardenfell. This goes for Summerset Isles and Elswyr as well. Are we going to ignore this and just have all dialogues in english? Is it possible to have all dialogue in an unreadable font in specific sections of each province, until you get a book that "teaches you the language" and the dialogue changes back to english. I just think it would be cool to keep it as realistic as possible and including language complications would keep it close to lore.

Just a question/idea...
Post Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:15 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

if we have a book that 'teaches you how to read other languages' by opening it...we should have the option to disable it, as I think it would be fun to learn new languages and learn to speak them fluently! It could be a great way to conceal notes passed in class!
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Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:44 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

If it isn't possible to learn languages and change the font to make it unreadable... We could simply have all dialogues with NPC's end right after you initiate them with something like ":mutters something in another language that you cannot understand:" until you get a certain dictionary/book. This is possible because it is done in Bloodmoon initially in the fort. Maybe we could make this a global script... It'd be some work, but it'd also add some realism to the game... and, like haplo said, it'd provide some entertainment for MW/TR fanatics out there.
Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:54 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

yes, it's possible to add different symbals to dialogue, just type in mumbo-jumbo(well it would take a long time to create a language from scratch though...)

or type in a font you created, and viola!

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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

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Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:03 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Majra
Developer Emeritus
16 Jan 2004

Location: Darvulk Haven Elsweyr

oooh I wanna be part of the team that makes up that tribal language, thatd be fun
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Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

If we get a go from an admin and some aid from a couple scripters... count me in as well. Very Happy
Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:20 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Majra
Developer Emeritus
16 Jan 2004

Location: Darvulk Haven Elsweyr

are we goin to do new letters as well? I think some one recreated the daedric alphabet, maybe they could help if we need an argonian alphabet
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Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:56 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

If someone supplied me with pictures of what each character in the new alphabet should look like, I could make it into a font file (*.ttf). I'd be happy to be helping this project for once rather than browsing the forum, giving my two cents on topics that really don't concern me Razz
Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Assassinace
Developer
21 Aug 2003

Location: Dreamland

I know a site that is recreating argonia and they I believe have a language more or less based on lore if we want to ask them for help.
Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:36 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Majra
Developer Emeritus
16 Jan 2004

Location: Darvulk Haven Elsweyr

they are recreating all of argonia, as in on the same scale as TR?
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Screw it, I'm back for sweet sweet TR

Uldar Gerzae: Expect no dodgeballs out of my arse. Though if something were to shoot out of me nether regions it mgiht be wise to dodge it all the same
Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:50 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Arcadea
Developer Emeritus
23 Aug 2003

Location: Milford, NH, USA

the core has been in contact with this group that is all I can say right now.
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Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:58 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

yes, but their recreation will be set in the second era as opposed to TR's which will be set in the Third.

What Provinces will need different Languages? Black Marsh? Elswyr? Summerset Isles? Valenwood? Hammerfell? Are those right? Anything else?
Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:58 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Asylum
Developer
05 Feb 2004

Location: A 6th House Base

if you are going to let the npc learn argonian, then you should alter the quest where you must find the runnaway slave which changed his name to the normal language to hide, and you ask the slavetrader for some help. because you would allready know that his new name and argonian name are the same if you had learned the language first
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Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:40 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

...whats up with all the new mods that add part of TR, instead of all of it like us?! I think we should copyright our mod...
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




Copyright is automatic unfortunately when we signed the EULA everything made in the editor is copyright by bethsoft..
Post Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:07 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

duh, I dont mean copyright everything in our mod, I mean our type of mod, so that no one can decide they want to 'officially do' a mod that is part of tamriel, since we're the ones that are recreating tamriel... thats like someone making a brand new planet somewhere, and someone else making a continent from that planet, totally seperate from the original construction crew...it's kind of dirty and lowdown... I mean, WE'RE Tamriel Rebuilt, so if you want to recreate Summerset Isle or Cyrodil or Valenwood, join our project and do it, dont take away from our project and do part of our project with fewer people... even if it does mean you dont get to be a frickin show off and gloat over the fact that YOU are in charge...everyone loves to do that...like ooo im the head of this giant project, and you're only a member of that one haha...

I just think we should be able to do that, if you know what im saying

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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sparky
Member
08 Mar 2004

Location: Florida

Why don't we get these people to help us? I mean.. what i waste to recreate it in the second era when they could just add it on to ours in the third and get double the publicity..
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Post Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

it's because of order. People want to work on the province they want to work on. Since TR's projected province order doesn't suit their needs, they've decided to ahead with it themselves. We do the provinces in the order that we do because we have more statics and lore (etc) available for the provinces higher on the list. If we were to work on multiple provinces at a time... the yeild rate would be much lower. I do think that we need to collaborate with those people out there doing Summerset and BM, but we need to make sure that in collaborating with them, we don't take away too much from the officially sponsored province (soon to be Skyrim).

PS. Could we have the word of a mod on this idea?
Post Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:42 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
opelcity
Member
09 Dec 2003

Location: Hessen

...back to the main subject. couldn´t there be instructions on where to go, or who to meet on a piece of paper (not a whole book) in lets say the old germanic or nordic runes? and have a book in the game that translates it into "imperial" alphabet?

you´d have to do the translation outside the game on a piece of paper, but that would´nt be too much of a problem, right?
Post Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

It's completely feasible... It would work (and wouldn't be too much work) and would add depth to the game. I don't see why not... I'm just waiting for a thumbs up to start working on it, cause I don't want to create a couple new languages based in lore, if it won't be implemented. Sad
Post Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:44 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Asylum
Developer
05 Feb 2004

Location: A 6th House Base

the runes we are probably going to use ingame are made by zombie, you can find them here

http://forums.tamriel-rebuilt.org/viewtopic.php?t=3091&highlight=runes

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Post Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:52 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

well you can do it, and if its not accepted into the mod, it'll definitely be a bolt-on, and im sure some peeps will want to use it!
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:46 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

I have contacted the group working on Summerset Isle, so that we may be able to collaborate. Does anyone know the website for the group who is working on Black Marsh? I think in the mean time, we should settle whether we are actually creating languages or just new font types. Actually creating languages would take much more time and would require twice the effort when scripting Dialogue. Creating fonts should be rather painless to create and implement. What is the general consensus on this issue?

Edit: the argonian tc site is http://argonia.angryporcupine.org/ I'll wait to contact them until we decide whether we're doing full language or just fonts.
Post Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:10 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Jacurutu
Developer Emeritus
13 Feb 2004

Location: Stonefalls

Remember that the Imperials are almost "colonizers." If anyone has read any Ngugi ("Decolonizing the Mind," in particular), you would find that the most effective way of establishing control over a region is to enforce a strict language code. For example, children were punished in South Africa for speaking their native tongue. Wouldn't the Imperials do this as well? Secondly, the Romans had people speak Latin a) because it was easier to have an international tongue and b) because it was their language. Third, their was no language barrier between the PC (from the Imperial City) and the Dunmer in their native land. I think it's assumed that the language will be universal. Fourth, people are engaged in trade within the Empire, and agreements work best if each side understands what the other is saying. One language facilitates this.

I'm not saying that other languages aren't going to exist, I'm just saying that they will spoken to a lesser degree than the common tongue, especially if people are making acquaintances and establishing connections. I'd expect the local language to appear predominantly in books, at bars and taverns, and when someone is muttering angrily under their breath (as they occasionally do in the original game . . . "Ugh, what's that smell?!").

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Post Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:51 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

The Empire does not have a strong hand in Black Marsh or Summerset Isles. The lack of imp forts in both would lead me to believe that their presense there isn't strong enough to enforce the imperial language on them. It seems like both the High Elves and the Argonians would speak thier own language. Skyrim, while having their own method of writing, would speak the imperial tongue. Vvardenfell, because it was recently open to settlement (by the Empire) would speak the imperial tongue. This is evidenced by the sheer number of Imperial forts on the island.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/comic_book/17B.jpg
this leads me to believe that there would be a language barrier bt/wn Redguards and Dark Elves. Although this comic book is set in the beginning of the <Edit: 3rd era(Thanx Legolas)>, the Imperials influence should not have spread so far as to force their language on the entirety of tamriel.


Last edited by C-GenX on Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Legolas55
Member
04 Jan 2004

Location: New Jersey, USA

That book is in the 3rd era. It is the orgin of Cyrus, the Redguard who led a revolt against the empire in Hammerfell, so it had to be in the third era.
Post Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:00 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Zombies
Member
04 Dec 2003

Location: Right behind you...

The nordic runes I'm working on are still in progress, and need to be made into a font. If anyone knows of a free font maker, please notify me. Also, feel free to post any suggestions you may have in my nordic runes thread.

I'm more in favor of making these languages just have a simple english (or other r/l languages) equivalent (ie. *insert new letter* = A sound, A sound = h, hat = ane, etc.) instead of making a "real" new language, with vocabulary, syntax, etc., as we DO want to finish this mod some time this millenium.

not sure any of that made sense, heh.

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Post Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:21 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
prince_of_moscow
Member
27 Mar 2004



I think that in the beginning, when there is that room with all the stuff that you take, liike the lockpick and note to wriskaar on the table; ya kno that place? Well i thinkn that we should have a language book on the table there, and a script on the door that says you cant go out unless you read the book. Just like it does with faggot... err... fargot's ring.

Sorry if i made no sence whatsoever. that happens sometimes[/quote]
Post Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Skurvy
Member
02 Oct 2003

Location: London, UK

Just a small note, Argonians dont actually 'speak' in their native language. It is reported to be a series of clicks and grunts.

Skurvy
Post Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sparky
Member
08 Mar 2004

Location: Florida

Excuse me, Mr. and Mrs. Click-Click-Durk
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Post Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
C-GenX
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: San Francisco

try this Zombies: http://download.com.com/3000-2190-10168880.html It's shareware and expires after a month or so, but it should serve you for that month.

I'll try looking around and testing out programs, and point out the best ones... give me a couple of days...

And I do agree with you (Zombies)... we will only need to really assign different sounds to the letters tho for the overdub Bolt-on that was in production a while ago... but looks like it was dropped :-\
Post Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:14 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
shadowmoon
Member
21 Feb 2004

Location: Draenor, England

in this era doesnt all tamreil speak tamreilic, i dont know,

tamreilic however i do know a bit about, developed by the High elves so presumably the chimer/dunmeri can speak it, it was adopted by the imperials if im not too much mistaken so should be in areas like high rock, there was no language probolems in daggerfall so presumably hammerfall speaks it aswell, i think its just the beast provinces that might not all speak it, even though i know every race has their own dialects but maybee weer making too much of an isue over the language bariers

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Post Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gortwog gro-nagrom
Member
04 Jul 2004

Location: wrotharian and dragontail mounains

i know orcish look Bruthar rack urrg gargo linan mer craff it means warriorn fight evil night dark elf no just kidding i just wrote somthing but it does sound a little bit like orccish dosen´t it?
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Marauth Alaí-Raán
Member
10 Sep 2003

Location: The Isle of Balfiera, High Rock.

Orcish would also be a derivative or Aldmeri like Chimeri/Dunmeri (yes I said Aldmeri not Altmeri) Those two had to have broken off from Aldmeri before the Altmeri language got where it is now and all three developed independently.

Tamrielic BTW is a derivative of Altmeri that the Cyrodils came up with based on Altmeri - it isn't spoken by the Altmeri as a first language though given their relative intelligence they probably all know it from an early age.
Post Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:13 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Veet
Developer Emeritus
21 Aug 2003

Location: Oregon

I'm prety sure that we are not going to impose a language barrier as a gaming device, but language will be included as flavor for the environment. A lot of people get annoyed at having to learn a language to play part of a game, which is why "Klingon" didnt do so well.

And on a side note I just want to say that no one should tell anyone that they cannot mod something that would be redundant to our mod.
Post Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:58 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Marauth Alaí-Raán
Member
10 Sep 2003

Location: The Isle of Balfiera, High Rock.

I don't remember who said it, one of the guys around here, but it was suggested at one point that you could 'learn' a language by picking up a book with a script on it - like the ones that increase your stats and that would make communication possible with those in that province who might not speak Tamrielic, after reading the book their text is now in english. I mean no one in the game is actually speaking english, it's written in english as no one would want to learn Dunmeri or Tamrielic to play the game. Well maybe some people with way too much time on their hands Rolling Eyes. Anyway can that be scripted? Or is it too complicated to make people's text alter in that way?
Post Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:24 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

I think maybe we should have a bolton with a new skill if possible, "linguistics". This would govern how well you speak with speakers of a language other than common tounge (IE some members of House Dres, most native argonians, nomadic khajiit, ak'lirian redguard tribes, etc). FOr those without the bolton, we sould employ the "book" method.
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Post Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:52 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Dres
Member
02 Oct 2004



Chek wut i found this are argonian words used ingame


meht Argonian (Hist)
Meaning: "Cracker" - From an earlier version of the Annotated Anuad. The current version does not have this word, which is why it is an unreliable translation. See also Ixtaxh and thtithil
Usage:
Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht - "Exact Egg-Cracker", the Hist word for Padomay/Sithis Source: Interview with 3 Booksellers
Reliable: No





thtithil Argonian (Hist)
Meaning: "Egg" - From an earlier version of the Annotated Anuad. The current version does not have this word, which is why it is an unreliable translation. See also Ixtaxh and meht
Usage:
Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht - "Exact Egg-Cracker", the Hist word for Padomay/Sithis Source: Interview with 3 Booksellers
Reliable: No





Ixtaxh Argonian (Hist)
Meaning: "Exact" - From an earlier version of the Annotated Anuad. The current version does not have this word, which is why it is an unreliable translation. See also thtithil and meht
Usage:
Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht - "Exact Egg-Cracker", the Hist word for Padomay/Sithis Source: Interview with 3 Booksellers
Reliable: No
Post Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:52 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I think this should be continued. We have a lot of fresh faces here now that enjoy language-y type stuff. Majra, where are you? I think you were pretty interested in creating a native language. I'll try and work on one and let you add your spices and touches to it. (or the other way around)
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:09 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




Oooh...Sounds cool! Cant wait, but in the meantime I'm going to think of more Argonian Names...=)

Ex. Skink-In-Trees-Shade
Post Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:16 am             Reply with quote                   up  
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