claim 4-31

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claim 4-31

Post by Anonymous »

I would like to claim or otherwise finish off 4-31. I was thinking of creating a Dwemer Tomb based off the description in the book by Stalker, Dwemer Burial Customs ([url]http://forums.tamriel-rebuilt.org/viewtopic.php?t=5836[/url]). It would be built into the mountain, either slightly hidden but still exposed or as part of an archeologist camp.

The story is that the Dwemer was recognised during his life as a great war hero and greatly expanded Dwemeri territory over a number of campaigns. Hence his tomb was placed at the outskirts of Dwemeri territory at the time, to reflect his expansionistic nature.

This could tie in well with the Museum of Dwemer History, because as far as i know this would be the only such tomb in morrowind, and a quest for the Museum could be to sneak through the archeologists camp and steal artifacts from the people working there :D
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Post by Stalker »

*shows signs of exitment*
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Post by Anonymous »

Is that a no or are the mods just being slow this week?
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Post by Majra »

the lore stance on the subject of dwemer death rituals has already been discussed via the thread in the literature forum, Dwemer Burial, the stance is that no proof either way of whether they were buried, creamated, or whatever exists to this day... therefore any thing is possible, but all we know is that as far as what we create, we are not creating tombs.... in lore one might suggest that their tombs were buried deep where most would not see it, or a specific recluded spot in the mountains, or maybe the fact that they just deteriorated over time, but either way, NO DWEMER TOMBS thank you

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Post by Anonymous »

:(

But you said yourself, anything is possible. The lore itself so far says nothing on how the Dwemer dead were put to rest, so wouldnt it therefore not go against lore in the slightest to fill the gap? Or does TR's lore policy extend to say that making new lore to fill holes is illegal?

A book could be written to tell the story of a warrior king who was so influential that his people built him the only Dwemer tomb when he died, or something. As far as I know there are THOUSANDS of years of history that just isn't covered by lore, and this was just my attempt to help fill it.

Sigh. :(
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Post by Noirgrim »

Maybe this discussion can be rekindled in the Lore discussion forum.
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Post by Anonymous »

I'm posting here again because i PMed Majra a week ago to sort this out and he hasn't replied... Anyway i read through the post in the Lore forum, though it has been deleted by now. No lore issues were brought up in the thread and the idea was sanctioned by Nazz and a moderator i think. There was also this quote from Chronicles of Nchuleft:
But then, in the fall, Lord Ihlendam received a message from Councilor Bluthanch, inviting him to a parlay at Hendor-Stardumz. And all Ihlendam's kin and citizens strongly urged him not to come, fearing treachery, but Lord Ihlendam would not listen to counsel, not even to carrying with him his honor guard. And sadly, it came to pass that, while traveling to Hendor-Stardumz, in Chinzinch Pass, a host of foul creatures set upon Lord Ihlendam and killed him, and all of his party. And many citizens said thereafter that Bluthanch and her sons had conjured these beasts and set them upon Lord Ihlendam, but nothing was proven. Lord Ihlendam lies buried at a place called Leftunch.
The last sentance indicates that the dwemer did use tombs occasionally. If thats the case, why not have just 1?
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Post by Kothloth »

How you know it's a tomb? Could just be an other dwemer ruin ;)
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Post by Stalker »

*points on "Ruins of Kemel-Ze"*
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Post by Zalzidrax »

Well they entombed someone there, or at least buried them. And it seems like you'd bury someone someplace suited for that purpose.
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Post by Rodan »

Aug. 9 was the original post. I'm really getting way behind. Broode, let me know you're still interested in the claim and I'll give a grant. I'm only looking for a reply because I let my RL work take most of my time recently :)
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Post by Anonymous »

Thanks Rodan, I am still interested if you'd like to grant it
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Post by Stalker »

*jumping around with a "Ruins of Kemel-Ze" book which hold in his left hand*
Noir do I look like a big, yellow, metal GIR ? :)
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Post by Rodan »

Claim granted.
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Post by Kothloth »

*Before* making in a Dwemer tomb however, you *must* be sure you have people like Majra and Nazz behind you. Majra declared this to be invalid lore, so currently, you can't do this. It may be rediscussed, but before that, you cannot make a tomb. You can always make the rest of the claim though, which should be enough work anyways.

It's very important you do not begin to work on something that might have to change in the end. We've had too many of these claims, and it's not fun for anyone to decide that parts of a claim has to be remade.
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Post by Majra »

whoa whoa, Rodan, this is not proper lore by any means. You can't create lore. There is no proof of this in either direction. Hence why it shouldnt be created. As I stated. And I received no such email

The point being also, that it was very uncommon practice to bury their dead, as you can see it was only extremely important people in specific places of great importance to those specific people. That is why a tomb can not be made, and you can't create king names for dwemer. There is a big difference between the dwemer and other races. I want to make that clear, the dwemer are the race that ES made to be very don't touch. Everything around them seems to be veiled, hence why we are only allowed to see 5% of their ruins, and so on. In this way I believe rules must be stricter on addition of lore to the dwemer.

And again, as Koth stated, there is a difference between burying and creating a tomb for.
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Post by Anonymous »

From the TR faq on the main page:
We do have to create more lore, the current amount is not satisfactory for whole Tamriel. We have begun this by making spellbooks, writing stories and quests. However, original lore is not to be changed in any way. That means that the island of Vvardenfell will not be touched in official TR mods.
I thought extending and expanding the current lore was a major part of TR..?
The point being also, that it was very uncommon practice to bury their dead, as you can see it was only extremely important people in specific places of great importance to those specific people. That is why a tomb can not be made, and you can't create king names for dwemer.
I understand that it would be extremely rare for the Dwemer to bury their dead, especially in a tomb, but think about it. 1 tomb... in the entire of Tamriel. Sounds pretty rare to me.

Also I dont understand why we cannot create king names or anything like that, can you explain this to me?
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Post by Kothloth »

Thinking like that is kinda wrong. If we do need to add something this special, it will be done afterwards. Because we can't remember what everyone does. If everyone would think like this, we might up with a dozen of dwemer tombs. The right way to think, is to do what's not special which will fit into the world perfectly and without doubt. Only by doing this, we can assure nothing is wrong anywhere.
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Post by Majra »

adding lore is about things like what do Argonians dress like in Blackmarsh, or how large is the khajiit pyramid architecture.... NOT in creating this in a highly developed subject like dwemer. It is way way way more likely in my mind that buried their dead deep way below their cities, and not in tombs like you are proposing. Those excerpts you bring up say nothin but that they had dead people buried. A tomb is whatever the writer thought it is, it might not even be literal.

And as far as bring up the main page to an admin and a moderator. Believe me, we know that page, and me and Koth both have a very strong understand of where the line of lore can and should be crossed. Arguing with that kinda thing is just hurting your case.
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Post by Rodan »

Well:

1 - I granted this claim because it has been sitting in request form since early August, the core seems more likely to argue on the basis of this claim than offer compromise and advise (which is what the core is supposed to do).

2 - Broode, you have this claim now. You should offer compromise to the core on the idea. It probably is a violation of lore so may I offer a compromise, change the idea from Dwemer to a Stronghold. There are very few of those on the mainland and although one is realtively nearby there are not that many in the mainland. This is a suggestion though.
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Post by Kothloth »

He might be able to do a dwemer ruin aswell, but not something that hasn't been done before, unless lore states that it is utterly needed for now.
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Post by Anonymous »

Alright, I'll give up on the tomb and put an a regular Dwemer ruin, or maybe a stronghold or Daedric shrine or somesuch...

Majra, this is probably unintentional but your tone can come off as a touch hostile, so naturally I wasn't being very cooperative. But thanks Rodan for being so helpful.
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Post by Majra »

yea Ive been bein told that lately. I wasn't tryin to be harsh at first, I guess I was a bit, but when you pulled out the info on the front page as a rational.... I did get a bit angry. But again water under the bridge :) happy modding
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

Stronghold would be preferred. There are currently almost none on the mainland.
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