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El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

Something like Grand Canyon? Nice thought, though a river would force the addition of flora around it.
I don't know if it would fit 'coz I actually imagined this as a big dusty dry piece of land.
But on the other hand, Colorado river hasn't made Grand Canyon a green place, has it?

I've got an idea but I don't know how possible or time-consuming could it be.
How about recoloring the blight storm effect (from red to light brown) and lower the thickness of the dust to make it feel like a sandstorm?
Post Tue May 03, 2005 4:38 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




The main reason why it should have a river is because it would explain how it got there. It seems to be a very steep canyon and typically these are only created by rivers (like the grand canyon). Unless it was once a sea trench which has since been pushed up. Valleys between two mountains are generally V shaped.

Unless you made it a man-made channel, or possibly a dried up one.

If you made it a very rocky place then it would be fine if stuff didnt grow there.
Post Tue May 03, 2005 4:46 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

If anyone ever thought that modding is simply a matter of editor using and scripting knowledge, he's hugely mistaken.
The science of geology is being put in use for the sake of realism in TR, it's unbelievable!!!
Very nice thought Jale, you're right.
Post Tue May 03, 2005 4:53 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




Hehe well Vvardenfell is pretty geologically sound. They could make pretty much whatever they liked and put it down to the volcano. Out here on the border we might have to be more carefull.

You could put a dried up river at the bottom, say that for some reason the spring dried up.

You follow the river and find that its been channeled away to a plantation or something Very Happy
Post Tue May 03, 2005 5:00 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I like the canyon idea better, myself. It could be in the Velothi mountains and could be, maybe, a Hlaalu-Redoran split.

Idea for it's importance: The oldest settlement in Morrowind? Maybe Veloth's second settlement, with the first being destroyed. Maybe even his first. I could see it going a short way to the west of Narsis or Karthor Dale, one of the two.

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Post Tue May 03, 2005 7:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Zephyr
Developer Emeritus
18 Nov 2003



I don't know about the whole age thing, but this sort of settlement would surely have awesome strategic value, because it'd be very difficult to attack into. Which is why there should be Imperial presence, assuming they have even found the town in the first place.

To think of it, it'd be an easy target to surround and isolate, too, but I'd bet they have enough saltrice to last for years.
Post Tue May 03, 2005 7:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

Why is it so important that this settlement is under the influence of a great house?
It could just be a community of outcasts living there, that discovered that long abandoned place, and in time they begun exploiting the cliffs.

If you want so much to make them part of a great house, my idea is to make it so via a quest, where the player has the option to let them be independent or make them part of the local g.h.
Just like the quest in Bal Oyra (I think) where the Telvanni get to seize the city from the Imperials.
It's always nice to hold the destiny of many people in your hands.


Last edited by El Scumbago on Tue May 03, 2005 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Tue May 03, 2005 7:21 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



It must be old because it's Velothi style. That generally means it's from the first Era, probably before 1E 669.
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Vernon
Developer Emeritus
29 Sep 2004

Location: Sydney, Australia

I think we should do something different with this. Something that isn't 'I have a massive broomstick handle wedged firmly up my arse when it comes to lore.' It is an extremely cool idea and though it must have a basis in lore, we should see if we can dig up anything on TIL that smells a little different to the norm.
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Post Tue May 03, 2005 7:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

You mean in The Imperial Library website?
What exactly is it that we should look for?
Post Tue May 03, 2005 7:41 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Vernon
Developer Emeritus
29 Sep 2004

Location: Sydney, Australia

Dunno - its isn't up to me. It would just be nice to see something different done with this. We have lots of bright people here at TR - I am sure we can come up with a cool background story for this place.
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Post Tue May 03, 2005 7:52 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



El Scumbago wrote:
Why is it so important that this settlement is under the influence of a great house?


Because whenever there is a city it has a government, and this government is nearly always part of a larger government? Because there aren't actually any outcasts? Because if they started trading ore they mined there a great house (probably Hlaalu) would come and take the city?

Seriously, I can only think of one city in all of Morrowind not directly under the control of the Empire, Temple or Great houses. That's Dagon Fel, and it's technically under Imperial control. I bet if Vvard wasn't quarentined, the Telvanni would sweep down on Dagon Fel and take control of it. Then again, that might make Vedam Dren mad.

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Post Tue May 03, 2005 9:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

Well, if it's neccesary to be this way, I can do nothing but agree, I'm no lore expert after all.

P.S. After this retreat you have to change your sig Wink
Post Tue May 03, 2005 9:40 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



There. Smile

I really think a Hlaalu-Redoran conflict is a good idea anways. The Hlaalu really didn't take much but empty land from Redoran and Indoril when you look closely. Adding a quest where you can take Hlaalu or Redoran's side in an issue would be pretty cool.

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Post Tue May 03, 2005 10:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

Now this is a unique sig!
It's the chorus from an old disco track, am I correct?
Post Tue May 03, 2005 10:24 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Vernon
Developer Emeritus
29 Sep 2004

Location: Sydney, Australia

Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody.

Have you come up with any ideas for a background story?

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Post Tue May 03, 2005 10:31 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I wouldn't call Bohemian Rhapsody (or Bohemian Polka, a song well-known to all Al-aholics) a disco. It was made in the 90s for one thing.

It's also not the chorus, because Bohemian Rhapsody has no chorus.

But if Redoran owns any part of it, there should definately be an Arena.

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Post Tue May 03, 2005 10:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

I'm not correct then!
Ok, here's a thought; sometime in the beginning of 2E, some people found this abandoned city in a state of total decay, and after repairing it they claimed it as their home and lived there and later opened mines there, after discovering the canyon's rich in the x mineral.
The x great house was shortly after informed of this and hurried to adapt the city in its domain.
Since then, there's a great argument between house x and house y about who should really own this place (something like the Caldera Mines argument).
As for the time the city was constructed, it remains a mystery but some assume that it could be one of the first settlements the original Velothi people built, and that very area was chosen because it discourages possible raiding parties. What do you think?
Post Tue May 03, 2005 10:45 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I like. I think House Redoran should've claimed it first if ye go with Redoran/Hlaalu, because Hlaalu is supposed to be taking over Redoran territory.

Also, it could be called Ald'Velothis.

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Post Tue May 03, 2005 11:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

If the canyon is named (i.e. Neera Canyon), we could name the city Ald-Neera.
Those settlers couldn't have known the name of an abandoned city, so they named it after the canyon.
Maybe a quest given by a scholar could take the PC down in the mines, in search of a manuscript that records among other things the original name of the city.
Post Tue May 03, 2005 11:13 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




Perhaps the two houses are fighting over it due to its rich deposists of a certain mineral. Which mineral shall we go with?

Iron
Copper
Adamantium
Glass
Ebony

Iron can be made into steel. Copper can be made into brass and bronze. Adamantium is my choice. Glass and Ebony...nah too far from the volcano.

Better yet we could have two minerals. Make it mainly iron ore and right down at the bottom a bit of Adamantium.
Post Wed May 04, 2005 2:30 am             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

Having 2 different minerals in the same area is too much imo.
If I had to vote, I'd say iron since raw glass and ebony mines already exist, and adamantium seems to come from another province.
Copper would be nice too.
But there's absolutely no meaning in discussing all these if we are unsure wether this town will be added or not.
Post Wed May 04, 2005 3:04 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Lord Elias
Reviewer
11 Sep 2004

Location: Belgrade, Serbia

Am I the only one who watched "Timemashine" here?Reminds me ALOT...
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Post Wed May 04, 2005 4:14 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

I can do some research and write some Lore, but I am still more for the idea of Burial grounds/Temple than some kind of settlement. We have a ton of amazing towns/villages in TR! Not the same with monumental burial grounds outside the Necrom.
This is a nice chance to bring some new lore about era of the Veloth and the religious customs old Chimer had.

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Post Wed May 04, 2005 8:41 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Vernon
Developer Emeritus
29 Sep 2004

Location: Sydney, Australia

Theo wrote:
I can do some research and write some Lore, but I am still more for the idea of Burial grounds/Temple than some kind of settlement. We have a ton of amazing towns/villages in TR! Not the same with monumental burial grounds outside the Necrom.
This is a nice chance to bring some new lore about era of the Veloth and the religious customs old Chimer had.


This is what I was alluding to when I posted earlier - some new lore expansion would be excellent. It would be nice if we could all work on this thing together as a mini TR project.

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Post Wed May 04, 2005 9:31 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
kingfish
Developer Emeritus
22 Nov 2003

Location: Prague, CZ

imo before we go any further with this, there are few issues that needs to be clear:

1. will the core allow yet another non-lore city/town/settlement? imo it has to be 20-25 ints at least to give the needed impression, which is quite a lot

2. if #1 is ok; is there a suitable place to make it? 4-35 looks good, but the area around is quite populated already. either herm's/lil's 4-17,19,20 or amaya's 4-3 may be a good place too, but would it fit into theirs' wip files?

3. a few minor issues - not worth mentioning yet

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Post Wed May 04, 2005 9:51 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Fancy necrom Burials is catchy, but it's not the original idea for this.
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Post Wed May 04, 2005 10:22 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Original idea? You mean Bethesda's idea for this buildings? I think the original idea does not matter as we want to produce unique ideas. There are few reasons I would like this to be a burial site:

1) Claim 4-35 is perfect. It is still unclaimed, it is in Velothi mountains (cliffs with Velothi architecture still probable), it is close to Kathor Dale with similar architecture. But as Kingfish said, adding town to this claim would be unbalancing.
2) Adding new non lore-town would be bigger problem then adding new burial complex.
3) Unique idea should be prefered to non-unique.
4) I still cannot avoid comparison to Valley of Kings and Valley of the Crescent moon. This is a must!
5) I came up with a nice Dunmeri name: Arouar Caard, which means "Clouded graves". Does it not sound cool?

6) Some lore ideas. This was originally one of first Velothi settlements in Morrowind, from where Chimer wanted to expand to the whole of Morrowind. Maybe it was intended as the capital (someone has an idea for Chimer original name for this site?)
But then armies led by Trinimac surrounded the well defended city to destroy dissident movement. This place was sieged for a long time, Chimer were cut of the food in the cliff town and lot of them died. Because of the spreading diseases, Veloth ordered to burn the death, but the wood and oil resources were low, so it was necessary to dig deeper into the mountain to bury the dead (from here some Dunmer burial customs might come).
When Trinimac was eaten by Boethiah and Orsimer transformed to Orcs, they fled in panic to the north. By that time Chimer population was devastated and Veloth ordered to abandon this devastated place of sorrow and go further. Some Chimer then founded Karthor Dale in the same style as this town.
Only the death remained.

I still have to work on this and check it with the lore. Also more detail can be written only when the definitive shape of the site is decided (Canyon/valley, acces from top/acces from below etc)

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Last edited by Theo on Wed May 04, 2005 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed May 04, 2005 1:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

This is a very nice scenario but I have a few objections.
1)It's a pity to turn such a unique and nice place from a town full of life into a huge graveyard. Just think of how many opportunities for quests this would offer.
2)Necrom serves the purpose of a vast cemetery just fine.
3)This is Morrowind, not Egypt, Dunmer prefer to put their dead in small claustrophobic graves than in big complexes curved in areas that are difficult to reach. Thus, if someone had found this place would he let it be a massive grave? Personally, I'd use it at my benefit, or at the benefit of my people.
4)I don't like history when it accepts the appearence of anykind of deus ex machina. This is lore, yet it remains in the terms of religious belief, not historical fact.
Post Wed May 04, 2005 1:29 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Allow me to react on your points:

Ad 1) I think this site would be much more remarkable and interesting place as abandoned, atmospheric, monumental place of some horrible disaster, inhabited just with horriffic undead.
And the quests concerning this place would be much more interesting then "bring me the shrobbery" misc. town quests. There is SOO MANY TOWNS to make quests for that we do not need any more. But if you come up with your idea that would make this city unique and different from other cities, we can discuss it.
Ad 2) Truth, but this site would be a bit older then Necrom.
Ad 3) The problem is that the place was plagued and full of nasty undead and its inhabitants were too demoralized by their great suffering in that prison that they just wanted to get of that hell ASAP and better forget about this place forever...
Ad 4) Tamriel, unlike our world, is a place where Gods actually exist as some kinds of superbeings and intervene with a real history. Deus Ex machina is unavoidable element in TES lore. The legend must not describe exactly what happened, but as all legends might have some grounding in real events.

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Post Wed May 04, 2005 1:46 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
El Scumbago
Developer Emeritus
09 Apr 2005

Location: Athens, Greece

You 've got some really good points Theo, I'll give you that.
Oh well, I guess the only reason I'm stuck with the idea of a miner's town is because that was my thought when I made the concept.

Anyway, if made it would certainly look spectacular, and that's the main purpose of it.

This doesn't mean I do not insist in my opinion!
Post Wed May 04, 2005 2:10 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




Im firmly with El Scumbago (great name!) on this one. This has far more potential than being turned into a big graveyard. I have always loved the idea of communities clinging onto walls.

Perhaps part of the cliff on the opposite side could be their graveyard.
Post Wed May 04, 2005 2:54 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
Flufy
Member
09 Oct 2004



hi is this still happening?
it looks cool.. whatever it may end up being if you want life there but it is not in law you could think of reasons that it is not widly known about.
where are the cliff meshes kingfish made it seem as though thay were on the disk but i cant find them

i would be happy to give it a go but i am not very good at exterias but i would make a start for someone elce to fine tune if anyone wants and i can get hold of the cliff meshes...
Post Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:57 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

Well, the town I made in my claim (balsan mar) is PRETTY similar to this, but with dres architechture and alot more open. Still, those concepts are viciously awesome.
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