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Claim: 4-8-Hla Claimed by Nemon
Maps In Group Map 4 at (-19,-27):(-12,-29) (-18:-17,-30) (-16,-30):(-12,-31)
 Status: Approved, 100% Complete
 Faction: House Hlaalu
 Area size: 36
 File:
Name Size Last Modified
TR_4-8-Hla_Haplo_1.esp 1.9 MB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
Description
Kragenmoor and Shadowgate Pass
Last Edited by Haplo
(Sat May 14, 2005 8:15 pm) Post
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Author Message
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Revoked. Cut out the claim from the current Map 4 if you want to use the WIP, but if you do, make sure to take out the city and all the settlements (Dwemer, Daedric Ruins, Ashlander Camp, Fort, etc.)

This includes Kragenmoore; also, if you can, please keep the fountain thing in Kragenmoore, it's really cool.
Post Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:20 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Claiming.

I'll keep the fountain thing.

EDIT: Talk about empty. I'll rework the mountains to make them really tall like they are in Oblivion. The fortress will kind of sit in the mountain pass somehow. I'll try and salvage what I can but a lot will probably end up going.

My real question is if this should stay Redoran or be converted to Hlaalu like it is in lore. If it is Hlaalu then be it, but if it is Redoran I'll have to cut some stuff. I suspect the city isn't the most playable.
Post Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:46 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Make it Halaylew please!
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Post Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Uploaded as 1 is the original claim with all NPCs, dialogue, activators and whatever other crap removed. Uploaded as 2 is the claim with everything but the fountain thing removed.

EDIT: Attached screenie of my idea for the striderport. Instead of the single ramp up, I decided to try something a little bigger.



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Post Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:16 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Attached screenies of one cell containing 25 buildings. Being undetailed, changes are easy to make so suggest some.


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Post Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:57 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
kebra
Developer
30 May 2005

Location: ithil

great, just great.
Post Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Very nice. One thing I'm keen to have in Kragenmoore (not sure if you need worry about it, or if it's down to the NPC-ers and Int-ers) is a house/dwelling/office/whatever for the Athram family of Flin traders, who are referenced in Oblivion by Ules Athram "of the Kragenmoore Athram's. I made my money in the flin trade, and now I'm living the life of ease in the City". It would be cool to build on that reference, if that's doable (at whatever stage)
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Post Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:47 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

I planned to put a largish Athram Manor near the fountain thing. I figure they aren't the absolute most influential and rich family in Kragenmoor, but they are probably very much up there.

EDIT: More screenies. I've added 40 buildings now. Since this city is comparable in size to Firewatch, Ebonheart, Narsis, Tear and Blacklight, I reckon I've got about another 40 buildings to add.

EDIT 2: Placed exactly 80 buildings. Have uploaded a birds-eye view of the city and a backup of the claim.

EDIT 3: Screens removed

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Last edited by Nomadic1 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:26 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

It looks great so far!

I assume the southwestern corner is an area you still have to place buildings in, right?

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lady Nerevar
Developer Emeritus
08 Jun 2004

Location: New Orleans, LA

looks great Smile
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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:46 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Thanks for the kind words Pleased

I've placed 80 buildings in the city now. Unless you specifically tell me to, I won't be adding any more. The southwestern cell, it is hard to tell from the picture, has a large difference in height between the roadside on the eastern edge and the district in the northwestern corner. My intention was to extend the mountain into the empty portion.

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Post Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:24 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Nice one!
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Post Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

I've now started re-landscaping the mountains.

I have a question about the Pryai River. Should it still continue into Cyrodiil?

From TESIV, did they have snow at this point southwards in the Velothi Mountains? I know for fact they didn't lower, howver I never explored the mountains this close to Cheydinhal.

Lastly, here's a rough idea for the Shadowgate Pass. I wasn't really too sure of what to add to a border fortress. The cornered building would be the Census and Excise, possibly being the most used pass into Morrowind I would expect there to be one. TBH I just wanted to play around with that mesh so I could easily replace it. For the small building, the idea is to have a small shop for people to buy Morrowind-ia travelling items (eg: helmets with goggles, licquors, travelling clothes, etc.). That was more to fill up space.



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Post Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:58 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Sounds cool. Though, it raises the question of how are we dealing with the borders in this?

Perhaps the easiest thing to do would be have an Oblivion-esque invisible wall, made of the 'thou shalt not levitate' squares from Mournhold, forming a border at some point? Though having enough of them to make a seamless border might cause problems/lag?

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a man builds a city
with
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a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:10 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

all border fortresses need to have a gate over the road, and have that road continue on past the fort long enough to suggest that there is something over there. (shouldn't be more than a cell or two if you make the road turn)
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Post Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:07 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

I made the fotress so that the gate is one which cannot be opened, much like that door in Dagon Fel which can't be opened because there are crates in the way on the inside (I used that script, just replaced the message). If the layout and the buildings I've used seem alright, I'll move the fortress to the corner of the cell it is in.

Should it be in the cell it is in (-18, -29)? At the moment it would require me to make an additional cell (-19, -30) just so one can see into the distance from the walls.

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Post Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:46 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

you need to make the extra cell(s) if it is required for the player to look into "Cyrodiil" (make sure the road curves so that those with extended view distances can't see the edge. Good idea with the gate.
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The just man frowns, but never sneers. We can understand anger, but not malevolence - Victor Hugo, Les Miserables

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Post Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:50 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

In Oblivion, the snow on the Velothi Mountains is fairly thick going southwards until you get about level with Cheydinhal, after which the snow quickly gets confined to the very tops of the mountains. Comparing the location of Kragenmoor with Cheydinhal with maps at the Imperial Library, it is about this claim that the Velothi Mountains start losing a lot of the snow. With this in mind I attach the following screenies. I can easily redo this and keep snow only on the peaks.

I also attached the script for the gate (yes, somebody please come up with a better message)

Code:
Begin TR_M4-8_GateCyrodiil

if (MenuMode == 1)
return
endif

if ( OnActivate == 1 )

   MessageBox, "Beyond the gate lies the Imperial Province. However you feel your destiny lies in Morrowind and so do not pass through."

   return

endif

End TR_M4-8_GateCyrodiil



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Post Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:59 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Nomadic1 wrote:

I have a question about the Pryai River. Should it still continue into Cyrodiil?


Yes.

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Post Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Kragenmoor
Kragen Mar
but Kragen already means something
as I said at TESF (but it was deleted because OH MY GOD HES BANNED!) this is just bullshit because of Arena's use of name generators
so something with a K Mar.

Map 4 needs an Imperial presence somewhere, by the way.

God Nomadic. I think I came.

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Post Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Needs to remain Kragenmoor, due to references in books, and in Oblivion dialogue.

BTW: this guy needs to make a cameo appearance in the Temple here,if you ask me.

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a man builds a city
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Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


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Post Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Kragen Mar then, Wolf101 just made up a good reason its got kragen in its name.

Kragenmoor is the Imperial name.

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Post Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Thanks for the kind words Sload. Pleased

For the name, I'll keep it as Kragenmoor if only because this is how it appears in Arena and in dialogue. I think a change like that would also have to be approved by the core and they can do it later if they see reason to.

It is funny that thread was made, completely unprompted and at the perfect time for me.

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Post Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:50 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005





I AM THE CORE!

yeah whatever. Kragenmoor's just Colovian at best.

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Post Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:01 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Kickass macro thing.

Well, the sources for "Kragenmoor" are Arena; King Edward (I think) mentions a ruler of Kragenmoor: do a TIL search for actual book; ex-Kragenmoor citizen Ulen Athram mentions it; ex-Kragenmoor citizen Avrus Adas mentions it.

The first two leave room for a 'Dunmer version', but the fact that two ex-natives call it that suggests that's its actual name.

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a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:19 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
blackbird
Reviewer
01 Mar 2007

Location: Brugge (bruges), Flanders, Belgium

Is the city of Kragenmoor (or whatever) going to be 4 cells?
Post Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:17 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

It looks like it, yes.
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Post Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:
The first two leave room for a 'Dunmer version', but the fact that two ex-natives call it that suggests that's its actual name.


Using a the name the Champion of Cyrodiil (what a shit thing to call the player btw) is more likely to know than Kragenmar?

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Post Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:57 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

This is starting to sound like a conspiracy theory...
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Post Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Update. I went through and playtested what I've modded so far just to see how the ground texturing, landscaping of the mountains and the layout of Kragenmoor, Shadowgate and a Dwemer ruin look like. Found a couple of errors which I'll fix shortly.

I'm going to go through and place the major statics first, and then go detailing over the lot. Kragenmoor will be finished last.

As it stands this claim is going to be a mix of RM for the mountains and AI/WG for the rest. BM textures are also used for where I want snow. I've decided I don't want the lower areas to be forested like most people do, so there will be lots of rocks and grass instead. This might, incidently, keep FPS fairly good given the size of the city.

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Last edited by Nomadic1 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:50 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

1 month checkup! (I know I just ragged on you about your i3-13-Ind claim... sorry for the pressure if you feel any)
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

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[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

I've placed some rocks and shit, and have done some landscape texturing around the west of the claim. I've also mapped out some of the road in the north of the claim and placed a few caves around.
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Post Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Progrizzle Updateroo materoo?
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Post Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:19 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

I've done a little more of this. Nothing update-worthy though.

I put this off to get i3-13 done, and now I've gone and claimed i1-70 Laughing

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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:04 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



Sload wrote:
Kragen Mar then, Wolf101 just made up a good reason its got kragen in its name.

Kragenmoor is the Imperial name.


That's quite very old, but anybody remembers what was Wolf101's reason?
Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:55 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

We're not changing this name, please, for the love of all that's good.

IIRC, Sload was covertly reading BGSF, where some guy had theorised that a link between Kragenmoor and some other place in Arena was that the devs were using a name gen, and that's how they got Kragenmoor, and this somehow invalidated its use in Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion, as well as Arena.

I'm pretty sure you were in that thread. Do a search for Kragen or Moor at the BGSF.

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a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Hemitheon
Reviewer
11 Aug 2006

Location: Necrom, Ra'athim Manor

Maybe there's a Dwemer ruin underneath the city and that's how the name originated. Maybe Clan Kragen originated from that area.
Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

I always imagined a Dwemer link to the city, somehow. It does fit and the name-generator theory is shit (though probably true). There were two places which historically had more Dwemer ruins than anywhere else: Vvardenfell and the Velothi Mountains. But I'm not adding anything Dwemer-y to the city - its been done in Mournhold. But I have added a ruin to the northwest.
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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:03 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:
We're not changing this name, please, for the love of all that's good.


Oh yes we are. Kragenmoor is the Imperial name for the place. I can live with Kragenmar.

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