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Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I'd probably want to choose between the two Nordic ruins, though. It's a bit odd to have both of them side by side.

I was actually wondering what you were planning with the cliffy waterfall, but that explains it. I was considering keeping the cliffs brown and distinct from the surrounding rock, sort of like in this image:



But I doubt that would look good. It shouldn't be too hard to replace the cliffs with BM rocks. I was thinking a simple pool at the bottom, maybe draining off via a natural grotto of sorts. (An interior).
Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I think the tower is more visually dynamic.
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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sasquatch
Developer
31 Dec 2013



My opinion.

Go with the short ruin. The tower looks dynamic as Jenga. Take out the tower or cut it in half.
Post Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:58 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

They both look good, although it's difficult not to make it look "moddy". I haven't looked at the file but from the picture it seems like the tower structure is rickety and would be better suited half resting on solid ground/a cliffside. The tower has the most potential in my opinion.
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Post Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:42 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Do you have an update for us Gnomey?
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Post Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:52 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

By the end of this week I should either have an update or I'll be dropping this. The week is starting out pretty busy for me, but I should have free time at the end of it.
Post Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:50 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

A rather rough update, but an update nonetheless. I did some detailing on the Nordic tower, removing the other fort, and cobbled together a sinkhole and a sort of mountain. I'll probably try to update this claim every week and drop it if I miss a week, as I don't think this claim will go anywhere otherwise. In short, this claim should hopefully see more progress.
Post Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Another update. Unfortunately also smallish. I polished up the sinkhole and 'mountain' from the last update a little, and then tried out various things in the grassy area.

The barrow entrance there would be to what was probably a small temple or grand (but likely small) tomb. It now serves as the home of a Hoom farmer who trades most of his wares to Mandul. (The Hoom pen still needs to be added to the exterior).

Other than that, I tried my hand at groves dominated by TR's new UV flora, and using that set has given me quite a few ideas. Unfortunately, there isn't really enough room for me to try them all out, but ah well. I should be able to make the space I do have available nice and pretty, in a harsh Morrowind-y way.

Pictures will still have to wait.
Post Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:26 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

New file. I did some general detailing and terrain smoothing, added that hoom pen, worked on some cliffs and finished the groves.
Post Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:30 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Wow, you really made that cliff look appropriate with the grass textures. Good job! Also I like how you use the tilted in the southeastern cells. This is going to turn out pretty nice.
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Post Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:37 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Looking great, Gnomey!

Just make sure to delete all the "bm_ex_iceberg_collapsed"'s since they will cause an incompatibility issue with Bloodmoon. We have a TR variant of the uncollapsed iceberg ("TR_terrain_BM_iceberg"), but we definitely should also make a TR version of the collapsed model as well.

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Post Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:38 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I'll see what I can do.
Post Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:54 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Another smaller update. I did some work on the snowfield south of the trade post, did some detailing around the trade post, mostly adding containers and lights, and did some more detailing around the hoom farm.

Among the wares passing through the trade post are kwama eggs and Dunmer liquor, outbound, and Imperial arms and armour, inbound. There might be some more expensive Dwemer and Ebony stuff in the interior warehouse.
There's also a pile of equipment which I was thinking could belong to a foreign knight or battlemage staying at the trade post. He tried to camp out one night in the wilderness and woke up to find that his horse was missing most of its meat. He assumes wolves ate it, and is waiting on a replacement horse to be brought along.

A quick breakdown of the trade post interiors, with their original and current purposes:

Tower: the tower has three floors, each of which is two stories high.
bottom floor: great hall -> warehouse and stables
middle floor (high entrance): dungeon -> barracks
top floor: barracks -> unused

Barrow: barrow -> vandalized barrow -> tavern and jail

As for bm_ex_iceberg_collapsed, it looks as though it is also used in TR_5-11_Red and TR_5-12_Red, and probably other Uld Vraech claims. I think I might wait for a TR version of the static to be added to TR_Data so that I can replace them with that; I haven't touched the iceberg models anyway so far.
Post Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:36 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

There also used to be two iceberg models at -37,18 but somehow they always disappear after each cleanup or merge. They should be standard non-collapsed versions of the iceberg, so I really have no idea what is the deal. Perhaps just place there a new ones or do something else with the area.
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Post Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:24 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Weekly update.

I finished detailing the road heading east from Kalstet, and in general the Kalstet cell and the three cells to the south of it are basically done.
I've also started detailing the green fields.
Post Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:08 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

New file, a day late due to dreadful sleeping habits. Did more detailing on the green valley and made one of the pools there into hotsprings, but I have yet to test whether it looks any good in-game.
Post Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:08 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Finished the green valley and did a little work on the surrounding cliffs.

I also added a cave entrance:

BM_KA_door_dark -270776, 248716, 6468 [337, 354, 23] (-34, 18) ; critter cave or outlaw hideout or recluse, might have signs of former Nordic presence, but otherwise a natural cave.

I'll properly document it with an image when I'm done with the claim or drop it, naturally.
Post Mon May 05, 2014 1:23 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Weekly update, as well as an image dump.

I'll start with the question:

Here's an overview of the Nordic tower/trade post I made as well as Theo's Nordic barrow complex:



The Dunmer stronghold would either have been built before the Nords invaded or as the Nords were being pushed out. Both scenarios work, though the latter would probably make the stronghold be one of the last ones ever built.

Here is a closeup of the barrow complex, with the red arrow pointing to a Dunmer for scale:



Long story short, I want to turn that into a much snowier this:



That is the purpose for which the new barrow resources were designed, and Theo's ravine, as well as sharing the same purpose, is of a pretty ideal size. This is also one of increasingly few claims in which Nordic presence can be properly showcased, and as it would all be hidden in that ravine I don't think it would be too visually obtrusive. As it would be a rather large landmark, though, I figured I should ask for permission before I do anything.

Having gotten that question out of the way, here are images of the trade post and how I imagined its interior would be set up, in connection with my earlier update:



1. vandalized barrow turned tavern and jail.
2. feasting hall/mess turned warehouse and stables.
3. dungeon turned barracks.
4. barracks turned Imperial Shrine or unused.

Note the Dunmer used for scale in the first image.
The top of the tower was probably a platform for tongues.

And here are the other interiors I have added:

As stated in an earlier post, this would either have been a small temple or important but small barrow, perhaps of one notable figure. It is now home to a Dunmer hoom farmer.
This is the natural cave I added in the last update that may contain slight traces of former Nordic presence.
This is a natural cave with three entrances which I added to the new area I am working on. My idea was that the two eastern entrances would be connected by a short passage, while the third door would lead to the main area, which could loop back to connect to the passage in some creative way.

Aside from adding the new interior and starting work on the surrounding cell, I finished the two snow field cells and tidied up as well as made traversable the various paths that criss-cross the claim. Five of the sixteen cells are now basically finished, and a few of the remaining ones are waiting on the new rock resources. (There is still plenty to work on, though, so it's not as though those models are creating a bottleneck).

Finally, here are some long-overdue screenshots of the finished areas:

Post Mon May 12, 2014 1:27 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Claim updated. Didn't do too much this time, just added a cave:

- BM_KA_door_dark -280554, 149546, 7648 [343, 0, 21] (-35, 18) ; rather hard to find and hard to access cave.



...and finished the snowy gorge with the three entrance cave from the last update:



It's mostly barren snow, but as you can see plant life thrives in the nooks and crannies.
I have also ironed out a few small border seams within the claim that were hidden under statics.

For the next week I'll get started on that barrow complex, as the idea appeared to have received a favourable response on IRC and did not receive a negative response in this thread.
Post Mon May 19, 2014 12:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Update without pictures this time. I laid down the rough form of the barrow complex. I ended up only extending it two-thirds of the way along Theo's canyon because it's already huge enough as it is. I may still extend it upwards along a cliffside a little, but otherwise will move on to tidying it up and covering it with snow. (Which should also make it look a little more humble from a distance).

Incidentally, the canyon is just narrow enough to make checking for errors a real pain. I'll probably have to patrol the complex up and down in-game with a levitating test character...

Edit: 02/06/2014: just editing this in so as to show I'm not ignoring my own deadline. I'll probably leave this for at most three weeks to focus on the stuff going on on the Indoril front.
Post Mon May 26, 2014 10:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

New file. At this point I'm too busy with other stuff to write a proper post here; that should follow with the next update.
Post Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:11 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Hey Gnomey.

If you have time, can you download arvisrend's latest data. It includes non-scripted instances of the BM_iceberg meshes. Using them outside Mortag glacier messes up a script at the end of the BM main quest.

There are 3 instances of the glacier mesh "bm_ex_iceberg_collapsed" in your claim. In my opinion these meshes should not be used at all, so if you can delete them, that would be nice. If not, you can temporarily swap them with their non-scripted TR equivalents (TR_ex_bm_iceberg_collapsed).

Thanks!

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Post Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Yeah, those meshes were there before I picked up the claim, and I haven't touched that corner of the claim at all. I'll probably just replace them with the new meshes for now.
Post Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:47 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

A month late, almost to a day, but this isn't exactly high priority so ah well. New file; TR_5-7-Red_Gnomey_14. I honestly don't remember whether I've done much work since the last update, (probably not), but today I tossed in some peaks and ridges which at the very least make for a great change in visuals. Edit: keeping in mind that the snow-covered variants still lack the correct textures.
Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:21 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sasquatch2o
Developer
15 Jul 2014



I looked over your latest file and I really like the barrow pass. Since you've slowed down on this I have some suggestions to flesh out the interior. I mocked these up in CS and included pictures. These are just my opinion of course, but hopefully they will give you some more ideas and inspire you to post more updates soon

-tower still too tall and wobbly (reduce and open up top interior) http://i.imgur.com/wrErvqe.png?1

-expand barrow complex using same method as new barrow area
http://i.imgur.com/lnnrLL1.png
http://i.imgur.com/jTCku8e.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/VykgC3Q.png?1

-the roads you have made would be seasonal rivers. this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I'd make use of this. Flooding out the ground level of barrow passage into a shallow stream that continues down mountain would be a nice effect. I'd do something similar in other area and incorporate falls over the walls of ruin as shown
http://i.imgur.com/kU0mheT.png

-because those canyons become seasonal stream with snow melt I would develop a secondary route of travel over high ground for winter months, maybe along cliffs with rocks jutting out overhead to protect from avalanche and snowfall


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Post Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:05 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

sasquatch2o wrote:
I looked over your latest file and I really like the barrow pass. Since you've slowed down on this I have some suggestions to flesh out the interior. I mocked these up in CS and included pictures. These are just my opinion of course, but hopefully they will give you some more ideas and inspire you to post more updates soon


Thank you for taking the time to check my interior and write out your suggestions. It has indeed given me some ideas. I'll try to reply to your suggestions individually; I say try because I have the flu and can't think straight. Razz

sasquatch2o wrote:
-tower still too tall and wobbly (reduce and open up top interior) http://i.imgur.com/wrErvqe.png?1


I'd like a third opinion on this. Considering the size of the rock slabs used to construct the tower, I would personally imagine that the structure would be stable, and do not see what difference your change would make in regards to the tower's structural integrity. (The top which you suggest removing is relatively light, and shouldn't contribute much to any instability; I'd imagine the floor immediately below it would cause issues, if anything).
If the structural integrity is deemed an issue, I'd probably remove the whole top half of the tower and put something else on the roof of the remaining structure, making the structure more of a keep than a tower.
If your only concern is aesthetic I'd all the more like to hear more opinions. I personally prefer the tower to remain as tall as it is, among other reasons because it can act as a landmark that can be seen from afar that way, because it can occupy a role as a sort of 'flag' symbolizing (former) Nordic (and some in the 3rd Era might argue contemporary Imperial) control of the region, and because it emulates the stalagmites and narrow peaks in the surrounding area, tying it in to one of the region's visual motifs.

sasquatch2o wrote:
-expand barrow complex using same method as new barrow area
http://i.imgur.com/lnnrLL1.png
http://i.imgur.com/jTCku8e.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/VykgC3Q.png?1


I'll need to think a little more on this one. I do not want the small barrow to overwhelm the checkpoint's more worldly functions -- both former and contemporary. An expanded barrow also seems rather superfluous with the huge barrow complex just over a ridge.

sasquatch2o wrote:
-the roads you have made would be seasonal rivers. this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I'd make use of this. Flooding out the ground level of barrow passage into a shallow stream that continues down mountain would be a nice effect. I'd do something similar in other area and incorporate falls over the walls of ruin as shown
http://i.imgur.com/kU0mheT.png


Thanks for pointing this in particular out. One of the ideas I specifically wanted to try out for the region -- inspired by Swiftoak's work on another Uld Vraech claim -- was a hollow seasonal ice river, and that seems rather compatible with your idea.
I'm not so sure about the bit of river going through the checkpoint, though, as the checkpoint is now used by Imperials, who I would imagine would find such seasonal flooding inconvenient and would take measures to hinder it. As such, I'll have to consider some alternatives... (I already have one idea of adding drainage grates around the tower and some sort of very short and simple sewer interior below them, but I'll have to consider the viability and methods of implementation of such an idea when my brain returns from strike...)

As for having a shallow stream flowing along the bottom of the barrow canyon, I'll certainly do that; I felt the canyon bed was too blank and dull, but couldn't think of a way of improving the visuals. Your idea works perfectly.

sasquatch2o wrote:
-because those canyons become seasonal stream with snow melt I would develop a secondary route of travel over high ground for winter months, maybe along cliffs with rocks jutting out overhead to protect from avalanche and snowfall


I like the idea, but I specifically want to avoid the need for such an inconvenient byway for the reasons I mentioned above. I would like to see the idea used elsewhere, though.
Post Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:29 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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