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Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

OVERLY DRAMATIC REVOKE MESSAGE!

:O
Post Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:29 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

I felt the need to offer an explanation. *shrugs*
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Post Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:02 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

oh, that wasn't about you or anything, I was just thinking about something else that is filled with over the top lines and whatnot.
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Post Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:36 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Description updated. Also this:
See this picture for regional borders, roads and rivers. Some roads are a little "off" in the Uld Vraech part, but the merged map file has the layout we're aiming for.


Clicky me...

Tba, a Dunmer village at the end of the [insert name] road leading from Mandul (#5). Although the road is dangerous and travellers often are attacked by bandits, this settlement still manages to run a little silver mine and have its goods sent south. It is, like it's nord counterpart to the west, safely placed with tall cliffs surrounding it, making it a cosy little dunmer town. Main trade: Mining. NPCs: Mostly dunmer, some nords looking for work.
Architecture: Velothi (because it will look great with snow).

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Post Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:55 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Claiming!

Tba will have 8 miner homes, 1 tradehouse, 1 blacksmith shop/home, 1 outfitter, 2 guard towers/outposts, 1 temporary housing unit for those Nord hired hands, 1 mine entrance, and how about a home for the Hetman? The home and tower counts are subject to ±2 count dependent on aesthetic. So, 16 buildings total ±4 so Caldera size (not accounting for the Caldera Mine structures).

Note that I am assuming all the miners are hired hands, no slaves. Is this appropriate for this region?

The ice-surrounded nordic stronghold will use the Colony tileset (unscripted with TR_5-8 prefix). Can I have clarification on whether this is long abandoned, recently abandoned, or inhabited (upkept), or uninhabited (decrepit)? I don't have a particular design in mind at this time, but the size will be comparable to Neoptolemus' though I have something a tiny bit more vertical and more encased in ice in mind.

Are there any surrounding finished claims I can view for references on shoreline styling, underwater styling, snow/dirt/grass ratio, tree density, etc?

For ten cells I'm not sure what the going dungeon density is but I'm thinking 2-3 snow/ice caves.

Will detail the road appropriately, would be nice to view the rest of the road for visual consistency. Will the Map 5 download include a finished version of a claim over that road?

For the landscape: cold and uninviting. I assume from this that this region is comparable to the Isinfier plains, with a little Moesring Mountains mixed into the coast?

Isinfier: http://images.uesp.net/a/a4/BM-place-Isinfier_Plains.jpg
Moesring Mountain Coast: http://images.uesp.net/3/38/BM-quest-The_Cursed_Captain.jpg

Sorry for the excessive text, I'm not sure how much is typical for someone who's not done a claim before!
Post Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:42 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Granted. But did you read the claim description properly??

Please keep the velothi architecture as stated in the claim description, and 12-13 ints should be enough for this. Use the momo fishing resources dropped into the cell, and make yourself accustomed with the various items in the tr data file. We have tons of stuff...

Why will add a post regarding the stuff going on in this region, which should help a little.

Note that the heightmap you're working from is veeeery rough, roads needs to be carefully smoothened and made realistic. 5-11 should be a good inspiration on how to create good roads, snow covered areas and other things. Regarding the icy shores, you just have to experiment a little, the WIP of 5-5 provided in the required file: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=226981#226981 (UPDATED JUST NOW) should give some insight on that.

Regarding Isinfier plains and Moesring Mountains as inspiration, I can't see how they can offer much really. Old, underdetailed stuff...
Post Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Oh, and for emphasis: The file in this post: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=226981#226981 is the one you should start working on! It's also expected that you take a little while reading stuff at our forums, the concept threads, lore and internal discussion should have tons of stuff.

The vertex shading thread is also required reading: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23316

Rules, guidelines, stuff. Fun!

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Post Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:46 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

To add to this fun little barrage of information, here's a rough synopsis for our plans for the region.

Basically, the native Nords* of the Uld Vraech have lived under Redoran oppression for too long. One of their own went to Skyrim when he was younger, and will return with an army, or a group of marauders, depending on who you ask. They'll ravage the Dunmer villages in the Uld Vraech (Mandul in particular) and liberate the Nords, or instigate rebellion, again depending on which side is talking. I don't have any particular plans for this village, but it should be one of the true Dunmeri villages of the area, with little Nords, and probably come under siege during the quest line at some point. It'll probably not be completely ravaged. Anyway, that's just a little backstory - it'd help massively if you could situate this village in a somewhat defensible area, but barricades and fortifications and whatnot will be added during the quest stages.

*this area was originally the home of a group of Nords, but was conquered by the Dunmer when they drove the Nordic invaders out of Veloth in 1E416. A long long time ago. It's Redoran territory now, but the Nords are unhappy.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to post!
Post Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:40 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Nemon wrote:
Granted. But did you read the claim description properly??

Please keep the velothi architecture as stated in the claim description, and 12-13 ints should be enough for this. Use the momo fishing resources dropped into the cell, and make yourself accustomed with the various items in the tr data file. We have tons of stuff...

Why will add a post regarding the stuff going on in this region, which should help a little.

Note that the heightmap you're working from is veeeery rough, roads needs to be carefully smoothened and made realistic. 5-11 should be a good inspiration on how to create good roads, snow covered areas and other things. Regarding the icy shores, you just have to experiment a little, the WIP of 5-5 provided in the required file: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=226981#226981 (UPDATED JUST NOW) should give some insight on that.

Regarding Isinfier plains and Moesring Mountains as inspiration, I can't see how they can offer much really. Old, underdetailed stuff...


Well that depends.. what did I miss or misinterpret? The town is going to be Velothi architecture (I might not have stated that in my claim) and the Nord fort is going to use the colony tileset. If that's not working, then inform me otherwise Very Happy
I can resize my original thoughts on the interior count to match your suggestion, unless it just doesn't work at all with my design, but I'll keep the count down.

And for the Solstheim regions: not drawing on them for inspiration, those were mentioned only for the amount of snow to expect in the area really. The ratio I mentioned. Since from what I heard the land texture painting may not be done in this area?

Thanks for the extra guidelines Nemon, those'll be useful!


Awesome back story Why, I'm glad I took this claim. I had plans already to place it in a defensible position (was thinking about that nord fort). But I'll take into account the possible history of attacks on the village and the strong dunmer presence in the town, combined with the racial tensions. Should be fun.

Also, I'd still like an answer on the Nordic fort - it's state of use. If there's nothing already planned on it, I probably won't have it currently occupied (doesn't make sense to me with the Redoran hold on the area). It'll be fallen into disuse but not completely decrepit. Just in case that band of marauders wants to take up residence there upon their return Wink
Post Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

But... there's no fort in this claim. Why is talking about script activated fortifications, stuff we easily add further down the road, as long as you keep it in mind when making this place. It will only be simple barricades or stuff like that anyway, when the quests reach certain stages.

And in terms of snow, this is entirely snow, but for a tiny bit of your claim cells going into the southern neighboring claim, which is supposed to be a valley with some volcanic activity underneath, making it a little warmer than the rest of the place.

Good luck!

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Post Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:07 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Ok, I was going off of this comment from Haplo, and that Neo had even begun working on the fort. I didn't notice that getting cut out, but good to know.

Haplo wrote:
The claim does not match the map; there's supposed to be a little thing called some snow here... also poorly detailed and overall not TR quality. It's also missing the ice-surrounded stronghold that's supposed to be in (-31,21). That could be a barbarian (Nord) filled fort isolated from Skyrim and thinking they're at war with Morrowind. This could be the source of some of the Nords on Solstheim.
Post Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:46 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

The claim was retooled. Disregard anything prior to 2012
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Post Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Very well then, disregarding. I'll strictly go off of what's in the topic description.

Thanks Thrignar.

Edit: the mine is still a silver mine. Correct?
Post Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:07 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

The silver mine is mentioned in the claim description, so it is to be in yes. All the info you need is in the claim description, recent posts and the premade heightmap file you are required to start working from.

The reason we started using the heightmap is for consistency. We were tired of poor claim border matching and changing landscaping styles. Using a map where the basics are laid out is a better solution.

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Ok good to know, I apologize about the questions and misunderstanding on my part, I'm new to the TR system.

I've got the correct height map to work from though and will reference the claims you've mentioned for consistency.
Post Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Alright, so I'm actually just now sitting down to start making some serious progress on this (I made a second MW installation to use no replacers. I have a question about the town location.

In the updated height map file, tba is a coastal town, sitting directly on the water with ships and everything. The map image for this claim places the town one cell inland, I was planning on putting it up against some cliffs for defense and realistic access to mines in the cliffside. Is it cool to move the town? I was under the impression that trade followed the road to that other town ?Mandul? not by sea?
Post Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:32 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Scratch that, fishing for food, I see that now.

And after looking at the current location again, I think I can still surround it with some cliffs and make this work with the fishing aspect incorporated as well.
Post Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Yeah, sorry. The image with the dots and lines is somewhat off target. The stuff placed in the heightmap file takes precedence and locations and roads should stay mostly where I've put them. At least most importantly at claim borders as to not get unmatching terrain/roads with neighboring claims.

Sure, cliffs should work great here. You can have a look at 5-31 and 5-5 in the same file to see how I've done similar stuff. And word of advice, take lots of incremental saves and backups. Sometimes a claim is screwed by what we refer to as a land tear. These are not fixable in our experience, and the affected cell needs to be restored from an earlier file to get it to work again. That is why I don't advice cleaning the claim (ridding it of other cells) until you make a file you're going to upload. Did I mention what we expect in terms of updates? Usually, first update requires a WIP - in order for us to see if you're off to a good start and to sort out misunderstandings at an early stage. After that an update each month is expected, even if it's just saying "nothing new here". We understand people have real lives, although we might push a bit more if we're nearing official TR releases. The ext department is, however, far ahead, so no worries there Smile .

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Post Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Thank you for the extra info Nemon! Every little bit is helping me out.

I did take a look at the claims you mentioned. 5-5 seemed to have a lot of glaciers as cliffs in it. Am I to use any of those? Currently I was just using the TR_terr_BMcliff set alongside the matching rocks.

The work in 5-20 was pretty inspiring too!

Alright, so I'll basically get a rough draft done and post it so the design can get approved before I do much detailing.

I'm having fun so far with this, snowy regions are something new and fun for me. I'm gonna have to crank up my exterior detailing after looking at some of the other areas done so far (that 5-20 area for one!)

Sorry for wanting all these references, but I'm curious if there are any for the bit of underwater/water areas I have. I have 1 cell that is entirely water.
Post Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:13 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Please download this stuff. Run this .esp with your file as the active. These are some new rock/snow cliffs I'd love to see used in this area.

Here's a reference on how I've used them: http://i.imgur.com/NDvIo.jpg

Mixing with some rocks and ice statics makes it simple to create pretty grand stuff with these cliffs. The fact that they have snow situated on top is also good, because it's difficult with the other cliffs to get snow resting properly on flat surfaces.



TRrocksnowcliffs.rar
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  TRrocksnowcliffs.rar
 Filesize:  873.19 KB
 Downloaded:  146 Time(s)


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Post Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

They do look good, but I don't see a place to download them.
Post Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Try this link, apparently the attachment isn't showing for you. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75781212/TRrocksnowcliffs.rar
Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:02 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

That worked, I got them now. No idea why the attachment isn't showing up. They show up in other parts of the forums.
Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Alrighty, and another question. Are there any silver veins in the TR BSA? I've found gold and iron, but no silver. I ask because the description says it's a silver mine and I was considering having 1 or 2 exposed veins outside the mine entrance.
Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:49 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Mortimer
Developer
30 Jul 2010



We could fake it by relabeling iron as silver
Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:51 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

This isn't my WIP update with a file. But just a generic update I guess..

I've lain down basic ground textures over the claim and worked on the tba settlement mostly.

I've tried to directly attach the images, but I don't seem to have the permissions or something. This is what I see.

Here are the images I took quickly in game of the work I've done so far:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42876609/TR/5-8-Red/MGE%20Screenshot%20016.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42876609/TR/5-8-Red/MGE%20Screenshot%20017.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42876609/TR/5-8-Red/MGE%20Screenshot%20018.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42876609/TR/5-8-Red/MGE%20Screenshot%20019.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42876609/TR/5-8-Red/MGE%20Screenshot%20029.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42876609/TR/5-8-Red/MGE%20Screenshot%20032.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42876609/TR/5-8-Red/MGE%20Screenshot%20033.png

The third image shows a general overview of the village right now. I'm not sure about the temple building. It was there when I opened the claim, but I wasn't originally planning on including a temple. This seemed a pretty backwater settlement to be getting one. But it IS in Redoran territory, so maybe they'd spring for one. Thoughts on having a temple?
Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:20 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Mortimer wrote:
We could fake it by relabeling iron as silver


Or we could ask for the silver models that "Skyrim: Home of the Nords" has.

Nice start on the village MD Smile

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:32 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
SamirA
Developer Emeritus
27 Apr 2010

Location: Somewhere in Tamriel

I really like the way that is all laid out MD.
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Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:37 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Leon
Developer
30 Jul 2011

Location: The Netherlands

Looks awesome MD Very Happy

Don't forget to upload some wip's through your process, you do not have to upload only when you are finished.

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Looking good, you are obviously capable of pulling stuff like this off. Regarding the temple mesh, it probably just was included when I carpet bombed the area with velothi stuff, unless Why, Adanorcil or someone lore capable says it should stay there you can drop it for all I care.

Oh, and backup backup and backup Smile .

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:09 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

If you want to include a smaller Temple, like the one in Vos, that's fine with me, but no temple at all is good too.

Edit: wow, those screenshots are pretty. Good work!
Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:43 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Thanks everyone! I'm having fun with this type of exterior; I've been doing tropical for so long. And I wanted to take Why's request to have it be a somewhat defensible position to heart.

I'll finish laying out the town and see if the temple will fit in well. But I won't strain myself over it.

@Nemon: Well your carpet bombing has been very useful; especially all those BM rock and snow meshes, it was nice not having to search around for them Very Happy - But you might notice that many of the buildings you dropped in are in roughly the same position, I liked the slight randomness they had before and I wanted to break away from streets at right angles for this claim.

I have also been taking your suggestion to backup, I think I've made backups roughly every 1.5-2 hours. So I have 3-4 backups now, just in case.

I'll probably upload a WIP soon. I'd like to at least sprinkle some rock/ice/snow meshes around the rest of the landscape to give a rough shape to it first. The village is the only halfway detailed area right now.

And of course, a quick question: what's the common etiquette for bordering? The western cliffside in that village directly borders another claim, bleeding very slightly into it. Do I just leave the open-faced side of the cliff mesh for the next claimer to deal with?
Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

We do have some border etiquette, namely that one should make it somewhat easy to border match for whomever is next to you. That being said, if you are the first one to develop a border, and you require a certain landscape style and/or setup of statics to make your stuff look the way you want it to - then you have a "right of way" of sorts.

As of now, the border cell is probably one of my cells in 5-31, a cell barely developed at all. You are free to play around as much as you want in order to create what you envision, especially settlement cells takes precedence over wilderness cells when the border matching takes place. I will easily make my cell match yours, also in terms of covering potential cliffs caspering (when you can see stuff that should not be seen) and other issues.

So that's a "yes" to your question.

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Ok I will keep that in mind (and yes it's 5-31); it's not the entire cliff back which is exposed, but a portion of it. I'll keep your comment about good border etiquette in mind. I kind of assumed that, so I shouldn't have to change anything so far Very Happy

Is the term "caspering" unique to TR? I assumed that it meant the open part of meshes being visible based on it's usage that I have seen so far. But googling "caspering" turned up a presumably unrelated definition...
Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Mwgek
Developer
11 Apr 2008



Yes, that is what it means. When there is a hole in the mesh or meshes are not snapped properly and a seam is visible, then it is caspering.
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Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
SamirA
Developer Emeritus
27 Apr 2010

Location: Somewhere in Tamriel

Melchior Dahrk wrote:
Ok I will keep that in mind (and yes it's 5-31); it's not the entire cliff back which is exposed, but a portion of it. I'll keep your comment about good border etiquette in mind. I kind of assumed that, so I shouldn't have to change anything so far Very Happy

Is the term "caspering" unique to TR? I assumed that it meant the open part of meshes being visible based on it's usage that I have seen so far. But googling "caspering" turned up a presumably unrelated definition...


Hahaha, I can imagine what you found.

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:30 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

SamirA wrote:
Hahaha, I can imagine what you found.

I googled it at work... insta-closed Chrome as soon as I read the first line of the definition.
Post Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:41 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Any wip file available? I like early stuff just to see the direction.
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Post Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Haven't made any progress since the last screens I showed (Holidays and all), but I've uploaded what I have so far.

let me know if I've screwed up the submission format... I just removed all cells other than 5-8.
Post Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:40 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

The file you uploaded is not properly cleaned, it seems the file edits quite a few areas.

When loading the file in TESame, do not sort the list of stuff. Remove everything besides TES3, texture, custom added statics outside of TR_Data (for instance the cliff meshes), your 5-8 cells and corresponding landscape row below.

Looks good so far.

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