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sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

Will do.
The chimer were definitely in the area way before the jungle - in fact, the jungle is EXTREMELY young in bottanical terms.
Originally, what is now the argon jungle was an extremely fertile farm plain, densely populated by Dres farmers and once containing a vast and nearly suburban network of locations - places of worship, houses, mansions, slave pens, garrisons, and before they were extinct, a harmoniously intermingled small Dwemer population. What happened was that, as the khanathen flu spread in the middle of the first era, it drove Dunmer out of the area - with the once uniform-farmland gone, the flora from argonia spread into the rich soil ridiculously fast... and the irrigation systems actually now turned against the terrain, saturating it heavily with water and causing nearly all the old structures to sink. the only remaining structures were either so large that they only partially sunk, or were built into rockier terrain and thus escaped the softening of the soil. This sudden change in terrain also affected the climate, the hot eastern sun and copious amounts of water saturation combining to create an almost perpetually foggy subclimate encased by the surrounding cliffs and mountains. However, the ashy soil of morrowind began to seep into the argonain swamps to the south, killing nearly all of the once mighty trees - the only surviving tree species were hybrids between morrowind and argonian flora that could survive the new climate. The argonian swamps to the immediate south, and deeper ponds that temporarily supported their flora, are filled with dead trees for this reason. Another factor of the unique flora hybridization seen in the jungle is that the region's mountains contained vast reserves of silver, which the dwemer minority mined away at heartily (Dunmer didn't care much for the stuff). the high soil saturation brought large amounts of finely eroded silver "dust" into the soil, which was immensely hostile to morrwind flora yet highly benificial to the argonian species. So large is the quantity of silver that, in some places, the once-bone-dry silver ore (Silver Chloride) would chemically react with the water, creatng hydrochloric acid and slver oxide (an insoluble nonreactant substance used in batteries) in much of the stagnant ponds, preventing any new life from sprouting up. The high amounts of acid are constantly eroding at the soil itself, producing a horrible-smelling vapour that always issues from the ponds.

In short, the muck ponds are essentially pools of acid, blanketed with clouds of dense noxious gas; and the trees in the jungle itself are a unique newly-evolved hybrid flora species able to handle the strange environment. There are ruins of the once thriving society of the region, but only structures that existed at the edges of the area still stand - the rest were literally swallowed by the ground and the newly accquired two feet or so of decayed plant matter from the now-extinct native flora and abandoned crops.

EDIT: wow, now if only I couldve wrote something that detailed for my biology exam last year... Razz
Post Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:43 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I'd love a source for that.
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Post Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

my head!
we can add fitting lore where it didn't exist before. all we know about the region from lore is that it is sparsely (if not not-at-all) inhabited, sotha sil's city is there (though TR wont go there), and that it was the first place in tamriel where the khanathen flu hit. ll the ecological stuff is from my knowledge of environmental science and chemistry.

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Post Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:36 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Oops! Making up lore so you can build cool ruins is not improvising when we need it, which is what TR should use.

The area is part of the Argonian region. This area has always been jungle and has always had the influence of the Hist.

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Post Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:50 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

so you think I should delete the ruins? I too aren't so sure about them. maybe some peolpe could take a look in-game and see how they like it?
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"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
Post Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:20 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

I don't actually mind the ruins. I don't like the idea of making up so much lore on the Argon, but I would be happy with, say, there once were cities there (like the bitter coast) and now there are only scattered ruins. The end. But I wouldn't want to see a lot of ruins.
Post Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I think there wouldn't be such a problem with the ruins if you realized what Dexter meant by small. Being 3 or 4 times as tall as the player - for the domb at the base alone - is not small. When he said a pillar I imagine he meant more like "a pillar no taller than a person and someone on their head and no wider than one such person"
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Post Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:05 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Dexter
Developer Emeritus
04 Jun 2004

Location: Baltimore, MD

I'd like to see just one wilderness claim that sticks to the wilderness namesake. I feel that this claim, being what is probably the nastiest part of the Argon Jungle in Morrowind, should be that claim. I don't believe that the Chimer were there before the jungle, and am strong opposed to there being any architectural features in this claim.
The jungle is one of the most diverse types of enviornments out there, and what you do with this claim is really only limited to what you are willing to put the time into. You can do ravines, rivers, waterfalls, mountains, caves, gulleys, and just about any other natural feature. I want this claim to look good, but I think that sticking fantabulous Daedric ruins or a village made in a style seen in only one other location is a severe cop-out in the creativity department.

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Post Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:24 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Agree. Moreover OM buildings allways looked like McDonald's icecream to me. I think there is far too many of them ingame already.
Post Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:58 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

alrighty then! death to all structures... I've always been itching to delete zalz's "bandit camp" anyway...
He also had an ancestral tomb, and a tiny stronghold-house ruin. should I axe those as well?

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"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
Post Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:54 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Dexter
Developer Emeritus
04 Jun 2004

Location: Baltimore, MD

Yep, kill those too.
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Post Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

The end is in sight! progress updated to 90%... ive been doing some MAJOR crunching this weekend. All that's left is to finish the GL cells, and the swampy black marsh areas.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/Sirwootalot/Random%20TR/Almostdone.jpg
The red-circled areas are what isn't done yet. the rest of the claim is totally finished.
Post Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:35 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

In the bottom center of the rightside of the cell, that's a bit much on the fog. I think you should reduce that by 1/3 at least. My computer can run MW decently, and that area right there would fry it's insides.
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:16 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

that's a weird glitch... it actually has just as much fog as every other foggy place. :-/
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"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
Post Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:10 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

Still modding, though with oblivion here, I havent been working on it nearly as much.
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"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
Post Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:26 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Zalzidrax
Developer
03 Dec 2003

Location: Bothell, WA

Sirwoot, have you done anything with this claim apart from removing any and all points of interest and replacing them with bc tree and muck filled puddles? The daedric ruin on the cliffs overlooking the jungle wasn't even in the bloody jungle...

The tower was on the border of the jungle, where it is falling away--though the transition was not satisfactory and the main reason I didn't consider the claim done. I want to see what you did to solve this, as I was having difficulty finding a satsifactory solution. Of course if the transition required too much of a junglification of the region, I was going to change it so the approach was from above.

That leaves two things that were actually in the jungle, the Dres slaver camp and the sunken elven fortress.

The large river that runs through the claim is almost certain to be a main travel route for Dres slavers, it is a direct route into the Black Marsh and means they do not have to travel through the jungle itself. It does not seem unreasonable that they would set up a well guarded camp on the banks of the river to aid in the lucrative slave trade. Staffed with well-trained Dres guards it could certainly survive for a while. Or not... but that would be mroe quest material than exterior material.

The sunken elven fortress was the one construction placed *in* the jungle, and not on the border. Possibly made long ago to prevent intrusions into the Black Marsh, it was likely built in a day when the jungle was less hostile, but slowly overrun by the environment. The stronghold house SirWoot mentioned is an upper tower, and would only contain a singl room--the main entrance is hidden underwater and rocks nearby... and may stil be in the claim if SirWoot didn't find it in his deleting spree.
Post Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:22 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

I found everything in the deleting spree... sorry mate. The daedric ruin is replaced with a big pond that's sort of a blend of both areas. I've found very little time for this plugin, because it's so hard to go back to the old CS. Do I need to finish this quickly, or can I let it be on the backburner longer?
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"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
Post Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:47 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Dexter
Developer Emeritus
04 Jun 2004

Location: Baltimore, MD

If you honestly plan on finishing it, then do so. If not, don't bullshit us, and drop it.
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Post Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

'Kay, might as well stop bullshitting...
DROPPED
here's the newest file. all that's left to finish is the swampy areas on the black marsh border, a process I found just too tedious most of the time. Someone with more motivation, preferably someone without the new CS on their mind constantly, can probably finish it in a single afternoon. I deleted the daedric ruin mainly because it was a cell away from a huge stronghold in a neighboring claim, which didn't make sense to me - this is morrowind, not oblivion. Razz
To be honest, the only reason I hogged this claim was because I was embarrased of my "drop everything" track record, but i've really got to be more honest and just let this bitch get DONE, for the sake of the morrowind faithful. Besides, texture work is rewarding enough and probably better suited for me; it fits my "too busy with social life" schedule honestly.
Post Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:15 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Noirgrim
Developer Emeritus
21 Aug 2003

Location: Chicago, IL

Dropped as per modders request
Post Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:47 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Please use the latest file for claiming.
Post Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Billay
Developer
11 Aug 2006

Location: Asheville, NC

I'd like to finish this. Doesn't seem like there's a whole lot left to do, just finish detailing a few spots. Maybe some vertex shading to add a canopy shadow effect.
Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:34 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

That most recent shot looks beautiful, but how much of an FPS shredder is it?
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Billay
Developer
11 Aug 2006

Location: Asheville, NC

The fps is fine for me, 20-30.
Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:39 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Wow. That's great!
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a man builds a city
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a man melts the sand so he
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Granting. What are your system specs?
Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:07 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Billay
Developer
11 Aug 2006

Location: Asheville, NC

AMD Athlon 64 x2 Dual Core Processor 4200+
2GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT (I'm prolly going to upgrade to a 8800 soon.)
Creative SB Audigy 4
Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:27 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

So subtract about 10 fps from your average, and you'll be about what an average gaming machine would get. (You have a very high-end system. Especially the processor)
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Zalzidrax
Developer
03 Dec 2003

Location: Bothell, WA

I wish my computer wasn't exploded. Then I'd finish it myself.

*cries*
Post Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:47 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Billay
Developer
11 Aug 2006

Location: Asheville, NC

When I load the plugin I get the warnings Missing Object
TR_GL_Cliff_06 and 02, TR_ZX_daedrothring, tr_zx_stick, and some about topic strings are different. Does this mean I need to download something?
Post Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:23 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Gez
Developer Emeritus
22 Jul 2005



Billay wrote:
When I load the plugin I get the warnings Missing Object
TR_GL_Cliff_06 and 02, TR_ZX_daedrothring, tr_zx_stick, and some about topic strings are different. Does this mean I need to download something?


Are you familiar with the Enchanted Editor? If so, you have to use it to replace all references to TR_GL_Cliff06 by references to TR_terr_GLCliff06.

Another, simpler way to change it with just the CS is as such:

1. Do not load the WIP yet. Just load Morrowind.esm and create a new static. To do that, just go to the static tab, click twice on an item (any one!) to rename it as TR_terr_GLCliff06, and when asked if you want to create a new, do so. Same thing for TR_terr_GLCliff02. Save this as a temporary plugin.

2. Now, keeping this new plugin checked, load your WIP map, and make sure it's the map that is set as active file.

3. Once the loading time is over, use Edit -> Search & Replace... to change all the TR_GL_Cliff06 by TR_terr_GLCliff06. Uncheck the "Current cell only" box that is checked by default. Then, again for TR_terr_GLCliff02

4. Now, all the cliffs use the right reference. You can save the map, and erase the temporary plugin. You're done!

However, I have no idea what the daedrothring and the stick are, so they'll be lost forever.
Post Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
groza528
Developer Emeritus
24 May 2004

Location: Maine

The zx in the IDs probably stands for Zalzidrax. Check with him?
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Post Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:35 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Billay
Developer
11 Aug 2006

Location: Asheville, NC

Anyone know what's up with cell TR 6-22_Black Marsh 10,-57? It is sunk lower then the other cells for some reason.
Post Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:15 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Zalzidrax
Developer
03 Dec 2003

Location: Bothell, WA

The TR_ZX_Daedrothring was a daedroth summoning ring hidden somewhere, if you're using what Sirwoot has done, it probably still isn't there. Though to be honest, I'mn not sure if he made any actual progress as the changs he made were rather severe, and likely took the actual completedness back a few steps. So if my version's still around you might want to take a look at that. Not that I'm biased or anything Razz

Ehh... the stick thing you can just remove... it's not really anything useful.

As for a cell randomly lowering itself, that seems to be an annoying bug with the construction set. The only thing to do is find the land data from a previous version and try to merge them. The think I suspect that causes it is saving a file with a tear between two landscape heights that are actually in the datafile, like you see when two cells from two different files don't quite match up.
Post Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:35 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sirwootalot123
Developer
08 Feb 2004

Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA

come now, be nice... I've already apologised for never finishing it. the only stuff I deleted without the request of some core member was the mostly bare small mountains; which I halfway (on account of my utter lack of work ethic Razz) converted to drab "dense dead muck-swamp" similar to what i'd done with 6-26.
Billay, send me an IM if you ever have any questions about modding. Though I don't do it anymore (I haven't even PLAYED a video game for half a year, much less visited the forums), I half-invented the style of the region and would be glad to help you out if you need it.

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Post Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:29 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

How's this going, Billay?
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Fri May 11, 2007 11:11 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Billay
Developer
11 Aug 2006

Location: Asheville, NC

I still can't fix the cell problem. Everything else is going fine.
Post Sun May 20, 2007 3:34 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Try cleaning that clean out using TESAME. That should do the trick.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Sun May 20, 2007 4:44 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Billay
Developer
11 Aug 2006

Location: Asheville, NC

I've tried everything and I still can't fix the cell. I've finished everything else, so I guess if someone could fix that cell it would be done.
Post Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:47 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
kebra
Developer
30 May 2005

Location: ithil

I don't now what it is, but i Had it 100 times, and nobody never have explain it.

The best is to restart the soil (if somebody know THE solution, i'm curious too), from the limit of the cell (where it's normal), you can use the flatten vertices, point by point (to keep the soil altitude), and finish the work manualy.(if you can't PM me)

The area is splendid and 100% natural, great.

Just add some pics
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1623/argonjungle1ai8.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4923/argonjungle2ch4.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1047/argonjungle3zs2.jpg
Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:42 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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