TrGMCliff [Working]

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:30 am

[url=http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mistor5pc.jpg]Screenshot.[/url]

Is NOT intended to be incredibly tall (should be about as tall as a town wall). Length should be about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of a cell. The top of the mesh needs to be deep enough such that it can be pushed into the heightmap fairly easy.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:10 pm

well, i started duing something like this a while back. ill see if i can revise them to fit this claim.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:24 pm

Nice, Lady N.

I suggested this claim to Joco, but he never got back to me about whether or not he really wanted to do it. So its yours, I guess.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:12 pm

Any screenies of what the cliff is at this point, N?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:39 pm

[edit]

droping this. my exported dosent work, and honestly maya hates me.

i feel that i can be of more use in other areas of the project instead of taking up claims from those who actualy know what the are doing

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:16 pm

Consider it dropped, LN.

Modellers, come one, come all, get your cliff-thang on!

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:30 am

i feel that i can be of more use in other areas of the project instead of taking up claims from those who actualy know what the are doing

If no new people learn we are fucked. Why not learn blender? That works. Maya has never been compatible in the history of TES modding... how'd you get started on that?

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:28 am

I used to use maya. I liked the interface a lot. I know the guys from niftools are working on a maya exporter\importer. I can do this as soon as I finish my tors.

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:45 pm

I can gladly do it if i will succed with exporting it and if you can ask the question I ask you at msn. How large is a cell?

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:27 pm

ok I claim this one now....

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:02 pm

how'd you get started on that?

blender freaked me out with its horrible (to mea alteast) UI. so i kinda droped the whole modeling thing. then my bro got maya cause thats what one uses to model for unreal turnament (wich he wanted to do). i found it easir then blender and started to learn.

i wouldnt say that im a total n00b at modeling. but my technique probably does seem wierd, especialy when some kind of feature gets turned of my accident and i end up confused in a program that dosent like me too much. i mostly just generate a plane and start pulling vertexes (none of that extruding and mirroring stuff)...

... and i realy dont have much luck with instaling 3rd party technology, like exporters. i think im doing everying right, but some where some setting is probably off (or the thing is malfunctioning due to the wierd way bro instaled it) wich is skrewing up the thing.

anyhow, rants aside, i am still learning to model. i just dont feel that i am ready to hold a claim succesfully yet.

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:53 pm

Ok, here is the first prototype. I have no idea if it is good or not, and i know that it is quite far from the concept you gave me Poha!. This is absolutely not meant to be a finished version, i just want some feedback.

[img]http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/Joco_Modding/th_cliff.jpg[/img]

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/Joco_Modding/cliff.jpg
(This is the link if you are intrested to see a large one...)

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:16 pm

When making this mesh (and I should have made this clear in the first post) the top of the cliff needs to extent backwards at least half of the height. As a crude moch-up:

Code: Select all


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As of right now, you have the front of the cliff, but we need the top part of the cliff also... hopefully PoHa! can explain it better.

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:48 pm

ok thats easy. Is it ok if the back is a hole or does it have to be a plane???

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:08 pm

The back wouldn't really need anything, as it's intended to be buried in the terrain.

To reiterate Noir's point, all that I had thought would be necessary for this is the top, and the front. However, the two sides that you have would increase its useability by quite a bit, I think.

So as to what I think this should be, it might be nice to have a short dip down part on the back, to make it easier to bury in the terrain, but that's not at all necessary, just an idea, that others are free to comment on.

Err... to explain what I mean, I'll make a cutesy diagram:

Code: Select all

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    /

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:42 am

i feel that the curent version is rather straight, it should perhaps curve more because rock is rarely that straight.

imho

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:07 am

i will work on it and give another one later today or tommorrow.

angelus6 · Post by **angelus6** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:51 am

well, what you've got is looking really good joco. can't wait to see the finished version

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:03 pm

Ok here is one that i have improved. I prefered to make links...

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/Joco_Modding/cliffrev3.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/Joco_Modding/cliffrev2.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/Joco_Modding/cliffrev1.jpg

This one was a view in nifscope...

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/Joco_Modding/nifpiccliff.jpg

I have problems with exporting the .nif. Blender says: Change texture to UV. If i do it complains something else and the texture gets screwed.
In this case i exportet .obj and the result was this.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:42 pm

The model has to have a set of UV coordinates. That's an absolute requirement for every game. There are many blender tutorial on the subject. Its definately worth learning.

The texture gets screwed when you change it to UV because you haven't set the UV coordinates, so it doesn't know how to place the texture on the model.

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:28 am

What about polyccount? The problem with blender is that polycount and facecount isnt the same thing really, since quite a few faces are quadrilaterals and not polygons. This current one has thousands and thousands of polys, i don't know the exact value at present because it isnt finished.
But i would like to know if i am on the right track or not.
Is the shape and structure ok?
Is the texture ok?
What else; please comment.

/Joco

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:31 am

Hmm... I missed these posts somehow...

The polycount thing with blender isn't too much of a problem. I've dabbled with it myself, and I there is a way to convert quads to triangles, and it seems to work just fine. Sorry, I can't recall how off the top of my head. Horodnic might know.

The shape is looking pretty good, I'd say. Its hard to tell though; it may be too long, which could make it more difficult to use, but I can't be for certain on that.

As far as the texture goes, I can't be too much help their either, except to say that somewhere, I believe it was decided that Goldmoor should have light-grayish rocks, or nearly white ones. These would need to be based off of photos to be in line with Beth's textures.

I have also wondered about the possibility of simply taking a Beth rock texture, and lightening it up to a near white, or simply using one that is light gray. I am not, however, all that experienced with textures.

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:01 pm

I use the decimate tool to split quads. The texture needs an UVW and a separate texture built on it. I don't really know what it needs. Maybe ,if you post some pictures from more angles, or at least those that are important, I may help you fixing it up.

Sorry for being so inactive. You know how school is these days. I'm waiting for the Christmas holiday. Until then I have to learn for exams and other crap.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:55 pm

Joco, any updates for us?

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:18 am

As I said, when christmas comes I will have something for you, but at the moment I have alot in school so i havent had much time. Please, if I am to make progress tell me what polycount approx is reasonable. 1000? 10 000? 100 000?

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:48 pm

Let's shoot for around 700 then. That would be approximately half the polys of a rock of the same size, and around the same polys as some of Beth's ledges.

And sorry for not remembering the school thing. I'm not the best of keeping track of who's doing what and why and when. But now its here, so I shouldn't forget.

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:03 am

700? You have to be kidding.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:06 pm

RockMossLedge01 - 519 faces
RockMossLedge02 - 882 faces (Both of these are similar in size to what this cliff should be)
RockGreatForest645 - 1492 faces (similar height to what the cliff should be, yet its a full rock instead of a cliff)

So no, I wasn't kidding. I said around 700, too. If Joco must, then he can go for the full 1000. If he needs more than that, or if it just isn't looking right at those polys, then it can be discussed. For now, I think that's a decent enough number to try to be around.

If you have any evidence to support 700 being a bad number of polys to shoot for, then please post it. Otherwise, please don't undermine me. Thanks.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:53 pm

I remember reading that the Will o'the Wisp model is about 4000 polys, quite an outrageous number. 700 or 1000 seems pretty normal compared to that.

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:49 am

Well this thing is like very long so I dont really know if I wilt be able to keep the limits. Maybe I have to make it shorter...

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:08 pm

Break it into two models if you have to.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:21 pm

El Scumbago wrote:I remember reading that the Will o'the Wisp model is about 4000 polys, quite an outrageous number.

That's too much for a piece of snot.

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:43 am

Ok, been a while since, but here is an update...
I have made the model a bit shorter, I have reduced the polycount from 88 000 to 2500, but i will reduce it even more.
I have now succeded with exporting the nif but the texture disapears in the nifscope. This will be finished very soon...

Sorry for the long time this have taken but my world has been a bit upsidedown and all.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:21 pm

Good to hear from you, Joco, and good to hear that the cliff is coming along. Sorry to hear about the upside down world. My aunt had that once; made her sick.

Texture disappears in Nifskope? Morden, Eyeball, do you guys know anything that would cause that? Incorrect path, or somesuch maybe?

Any latest pics to show off for everyone to see?

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:01 pm

Incorrect file path is the usual culprit.

Kikaimegami · Post by **Kikaimegami** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:50 pm

To change the Quads to Triangles, simply go into Edit Mode, select all (a-key) and go to Mesh->Faces->Convert Quads to Triangles. I don't recommend leaving it like this, though, because modeling with quads is always better, but to get a count mid-project, it works fine.

As for exporting, make sure to do all of the following:

For the problem you were having, go to the Buttons Window, Shading, Map Input and make sure the button UV is pressed.

NIF Export mode set to 20.0.0.4

Check in UV Face Select mode to see that all of your faces are facing outwards. It's fairly easy to notice in that mode because they will be transparent looking from the outside. If they are not, find those that aren't and go to Edit Mode, select the verticies for those faces, and under the Buttons window, Editing, Mesh Tools click "Flip Normals".

Export your mesh and convert it to 20.0.0.5 NIF for Oblivion with Nifskope. I'm not entirely sure how to make collision meshes, so you will need to check out the NifTools forums for that

I may research it, though, since I'm interested in how it works. You may be able to steal the collision mesh from an existing object and if that is the case, you convert the file as you normally would.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:20 pm

I don't recommend leaving it like this, though, because modeling with quads is always better, but to get a count mid-project, it works fine.

Or you could take the number of faces you have and multiply it by 2. Your faces should all be quads if you're modelling in quads.

Faces*2= number of triangles/polys.

Kikaimegami · Post by **Kikaimegami** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:18 am

Sometimes, though, you will have triangles. Especially if you have any objects that end in points, also, circles with have a certain number of triangles. Though, unless you have something with a lot of points or spheres, that shouldn't matter too much.

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:16 am

As soon yuo have used a modifyer or a bevel more than half of the faces will probably be triangles.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:41 am

Kikaimegami wrote:Export your mesh and convert it to 20.0.0.5 NIF for Oblivion with Nifskope. I'm not entirely sure how to make collision meshes, so you will need to check out the NifTools forums for that I may research it, though, since I'm interested in how it works. You may be able to steal the collision mesh from an existing object and if that is the case, you convert the file as you normally would.

The Nif Exporter for 3dsmax has collision functions, so it's not too hard to make one. If someone only has access to Blender, someone with max can do that part of it.

On a side note, I didn't realize this had been claimed, so I tried my hand at it while trying to pound out Goldmoor landscape features. Mine is considerably higher poly, but in my defense PoHa! is crazy. All that's left is UVW Unwrapping and mapping.

[url=http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cliffprogress5yu5.jpg][img]http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7050/cliffprogress5yu5.th.jpg[/img][/url]