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angelus6
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Post by angelus6 »

i would very much like to claim this as i believe i am more than capable of constructing in a way that reflects the grandure of the city. what i would like to know (being as i suck royally at sketching) is weather to follow Morgoth's or Nyren's sketch. both seem brilliant but Morgoths seems the more realistic... as i have no sketching ability what-so-ever, i would be happy to post an .esp with a city on the same scale for opinions before you grant this claim.
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Post by Noirgrim »

Sorry, Angelus, you jumped the gun a bit too early. There isn't even architecture nor is the region generated for it to be claimed. Plus, this being the first Ext claim for HF, and the first city, it has been reserved by myself. These claims will shortly be moved to 'unavailable' but I do appreciate your enthusiasm, and there will be more cities for you in the near future ;)

Plus, anyone claiming cities must read this fyi: [url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=16894[/url]
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Post by Noirgrim »

Claiming... biatches.
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Post by Lady Nerevar »

i expect sex incarnated, and i believe we will see just that :)
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Post by Haplo »

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Post by Nemon »

[quote="theviking"]Nemon, wouldn't you rather want to claim one of the two Hammerfell cities? You are really experienced with exteriors and you can mod for oblivion. We from the core really want the work started on those.[/quote]

Claiming
I'd like to use this

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/files/rihadviewedit_151.jpg

picture as a basic layout. However, I'd also like to include some canals within the town itself, as well as some narrow alleyways, stairs up to the next streets and lots of details.

For the countryside I'll add some farms, stuff and things. Imaginative and creative of course!
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Post by Haplo »

Thank grantness :-)

Don't forget the discussion thread
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Post by Nemon »

Exellent...

Ok, since OB modding procedure is slightly different from MW, please correct me if I'm wrong.

In the CS, activate Oblivion.esm, TR_Oot_Main.esm and Hammerfell.esm. -> Load...

Enter worldspace TRHammerfell, find correct location, and start building.

Create EXTERIOR Rihad, walls and general boundaries to that city, vertex shade around statics (generates a nice line when doing "interior" Rihad). Create new interior world, with TRHammerfell as parent world, goto correct location, find aforementioned vertex shade and place the walls so that I know where Rihad's limits are.

Correct?

Btw, doing Rihad is truly an honor.
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Post by Haplo »

Yes :-) And you also place the buildings in Rihad too :-P
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Post by Lady Nerevar »

if something is needed that you cant do without just tell aro. part of the reason we want these cities claimed is so that we know what else we need make.
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Post by Sload »

Make sure you've read the Sloadfile on Rihad.

If you get it wrong I'll pork you in the ass with a whisk.
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Post by Nemon »

Sload wrote:Make sure you've read the Sloadfile on Rihad.
It's bookmarked, carved in stone and gospel.
Sload wrote: If you get it wrong I'll pork you in the ass with a whisk.
Tempting... But that'll be for other reasons than me screwing up Rihad.
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Post by Nemon »

Okay, no more progress to talk about this week. I'm up to my knees in painting and redecorating a rather large room, so no news so far. I've raised some land, created an exterior wall around Rihad.
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Post by aro101 »

Hey, you have now the sidewalks, have fun with them. They shouldn't cause any problems, since they are a retexture. If you find any texture seams, also don't worry. I'm gonna take care of this. Thanks for giving me a fresh bottle of motivation. Be sure to upload some wips sooner or later. I use such thingies for test purposes. More details about your requests will be sent via PM.
PoHa: how can we best this trio of trouble? who will save us from this menace of sub-par models? what will we do?
PoHa: I know! we'll shoot an Aro at them
Aro: you have only one Aro missile!
PoHa: yes, but its heat seeking and quite possibly indestructible

How to do not become a modeller - by Stryker:
[00:13:]Stryker: no tutorial, no no no
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Post by Nemon »

Okay, first couple of screens!

I have created two separate worldspaces inside Rihad, with viewable statics from each neighbour's areas. The Middle Class and Temple area are coming along nicely, and with the addition of new stuff to the Oot I'll be able to create some really nice stuff.

Enjoy!
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View from southern entrance area up to the temple.
View from southern entrance area up to the temple.
Southern entrance area.
Southern entrance area.
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Post by aro101 »

Ohnoes. I see pink. Gotta fix it.

Edit, the blocks you mentioned are also gonna come soon.
Last edited by aro101 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PoHa: how can we best this trio of trouble? who will save us from this menace of sub-par models? what will we do?
PoHa: I know! we'll shoot an Aro at them
Aro: you have only one Aro missile!
PoHa: yes, but its heat seeking and quite possibly indestructible

How to do not become a modeller - by Stryker:
[00:13:]Stryker: no tutorial, no no no
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Post by Nemon »

aro101 wrote:Ohnoes. I see pink. Gotta fix it
It was not supposed to be like that? ?(
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

while you are at it, the lightpole texture seems a bit unnatural in its yellowness. perhaps give is a slightly more worn look?
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Post by aro101 »

Yea, I asked, uhm, betzibu to improve that one.
PoHa: how can we best this trio of trouble? who will save us from this menace of sub-par models? what will we do?
PoHa: I know! we'll shoot an Aro at them
Aro: you have only one Aro missile!
PoHa: yes, but its heat seeking and quite possibly indestructible

How to do not become a modeller - by Stryker:
[00:13:]Stryker: no tutorial, no no no
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Post by Jedak »

Woa... Its finally happening! Nice work Nemon. Keep in mind to keep the amount of buildings to a Vanilla standard to make it easier for our AI/NPC/Scripters/VA's in the future ;)

To give you an idea for city builbing numbers:
(not including chapels and castles/towers/boats/stables or lighthouses)

Anivil: 18
Bravil: 14
Bruma: 20
Cheydinhal: 19
Chorrol: 19
Imperial City: A lot
Leyawiin: 20
Skingrad: 22

So between 14-22 would be a good amount. 19-20 seems to be the average :)
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Post by Sload »

18-24
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Post by Nemon »

The Sloadfile on Rihad shows us an overview map of Rihad. There are different setions of the city,including UC, MC, LC, Docks and Temple. Also, the overview map of Goldmoor gives me the amount of cells devoted to Rihad. Given those two a maximum of 24 buildings will leave Rihad a pretty stretched out affair. Temple 1, Docks at least 2, Different guilds (listen in the Sloadfile on Rihad) 5, which leaves the rest of Rihad 12-18 buildings to share between UC, MC and LC. Our Hammerfell concept section clearly shows us Hammerfell cities crowded, with narrow alleyways, small markets and a Middle Eastern feel to them. Is that concept buttfucked by the vanilla style now?
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Post by Jedak »

If you have a look at a city like cheydinhal, more half of the city is a bare natural garden. Skingrad looks very crouded and yet it only has 22 buildings, not including the chapel (equivalent of the temple) and imperial barracksy place near the entrance to the bridge.

Have a look how Vanilla cities are designed and then try to copy it into Rihad to make it look crowded (like Skingrad).

Also the layout completley discludes the castle for some reason, which in a lot of Vanilla Cities takes up a whole quarter of the whole city. (a third in bravil).
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Make as many buildings as necessary without being OTT, I would. I'm sure making NPCs can't be much harder in Oblivion than it is with Morrowind, and in Darconis alone I've got a good 80/90 ints to deal with.

That's hard.

20-30, or even 40, is not. :P
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Post by Jedak »

But oblivion has AI and VA and even if we have the time to do them, having so much AI can crash even the mightiest computer ingame.
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Post by aro101 »

Do not care about any vanilla standarts. This city has to be big and crowded. There is no other way. The ones that want to keep some kind of limits, please keep in mind we have only two such cities on the whole map. Other locations are just small settlements that won't even be located in seperate cells. And this one is the bigger of the two cities.

Eventually, the city might be split into even more world spaces. Two to be exact.
PoHa: how can we best this trio of trouble? who will save us from this menace of sub-par models? what will we do?
PoHa: I know! we'll shoot an Aro at them
Aro: you have only one Aro missile!
PoHa: yes, but its heat seeking and quite possibly indestructible

How to do not become a modeller - by Stryker:
[00:13:]Stryker: no tutorial, no no no
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Post by Nemon »

aro101 wrote:(...)

Eventually, the city might be split into even more world spaces. Two to be exact.
I already have three, and more to come. Each and every cell is being detailed thoroughly with neighbouring cells' statics visible behind walls, buildings etc (=worldspace boundaries). Too large worldspaces ruin fps.
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Post by Gez »

Nemon wrote:Given those two a maximum of 24 buildings will leave Rihad a pretty stretched out affair. Temple 1, Docks at least 2, Different guilds (listen in the Sloadfile on Rihad) 5, which leaves the rest of Rihad 12-18 buildings to share between UC, MC and LC.
Keep this in mind:
Jedak wrote:To give you an idea for city builbing numbers:
(not including chapels and castles/towers/boats/stables or lighthouses)
Do not count temple, castle, and docks as building. The count is only for houses, shops and guildhalls. With 24 you can have the five guilds and still 19 buildings for houses and shops.
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Post by Nemon »

Well, I still feel that I should refer to the Goldmoor map, and it clearly states Rihad's size (cell count)... I don't want to make this into a Narsis affair, and I'll do my best to create some open spaces without making it seem too open.

I'll post more screens later today, now back to werk!
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Post by aro101 »

This simply can't turn into another narsis. You have the map, you have the cells on which you can work on. And it should be bigger than an average Oblivion city without a doubt, and be closer to size of IC... Oh, nice that you have already some world spaces :) BTW, I'm having a good tempo. Stairs are done, towers in production. I'm considering changing the original plan (update of OoT once a week) and making an update faster.
PoHa: how can we best this trio of trouble? who will save us from this menace of sub-par models? what will we do?
PoHa: I know! we'll shoot an Aro at them
Aro: you have only one Aro missile!
PoHa: yes, but its heat seeking and quite possibly indestructible

How to do not become a modeller - by Stryker:
[00:13:]Stryker: no tutorial, no no no
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Post by Morden »

The models need vertex coloring in either 3ds Max or Nifskope...we'll have to figure that out at some point...and that lamp post has got to go. Just delete the model from OoT. Give me 5 minutes to make something better.
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Post by aro101 »

I know they need vertex painting. PoHa! reminded me of that. I even left a note in the error reporting, so it won't be forgotten... El Scum was willing to design a new lamp post.
PoHa: how can we best this trio of trouble? who will save us from this menace of sub-par models? what will we do?
PoHa: I know! we'll shoot an Aro at them
Aro: you have only one Aro missile!
PoHa: yes, but its heat seeking and quite possibly indestructible

How to do not become a modeller - by Stryker:
[00:13:]Stryker: no tutorial, no no no
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Post by Nomadic1 »

For building count, I've always thought that TR cities will need around 30-35 buildings to get the right feel. Oblivion cities are small and they feel small.
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Post by Jedak »

Nemon, as long as it wont kill (with AI in it) FPS then its fine ;)
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Post by Sload »

as many buildings as you need - as many buildings as you need

thats my new estimate.

i think, in retrospect, its funny that we're trying to tell him how many buildings to put when we have no actual ability to check how much space he has for them or how the buildings fit there.

by 20-24 I just meant more buildings are welcome, it wasn't a thought out opinion.
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Post by Nemon »

Great!

I've done quite some work on the LC section, using some old footage of mine from Cairo and Jerusalem as inspiration. I'll be back in a few hours with screenshots and further updates.

N
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Post by Nemon »

Here are a few new screens, mainly LC section of Rihad. The cliff meshes' texture goes all crazy white on me when up close. I have to retreat 40-50 meters before the texture looks normal again (only ingame).
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Oblivion 2008-01-22 18-51-37-04.jpg
Oblivion 2008-01-22 18-50-37-43.jpg
Oblivion 2008-01-22 18-49-44-01.jpg
Oblivion 2008-01-22 18-49-17-98.jpg
Oblivion 2008-01-19 00-31-09-28.jpg
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Post by aro101 »

Nemon wrote:The cliff meshes' texture goes all crazy white on me when up close. I have to retreat 40-50 meters before the texture looks normal again (only ingame).
Material properties, as usual. This cliff's gonna be remade anyways :) BTW, could you upload or send me a wip? That would serve me very well for testing purposes(I can't fix material properties for example, without running the game)
PoHa: how can we best this trio of trouble? who will save us from this menace of sub-par models? what will we do?
PoHa: I know! we'll shoot an Aro at them
Aro: you have only one Aro missile!
PoHa: yes, but its heat seeking and quite possibly indestructible

How to do not become a modeller - by Stryker:
[00:13:]Stryker: no tutorial, no no no
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Post by Lady Nerevar »

hella sweet, its really shaping up :)
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Post by Haplo »

Me like :-) And I second the request for a WIP file.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

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