M2 Detailing #7 NPC Claim [Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

After an exterior claim has been cleared by a review, the thread will be moved here. Discussion is still allowed.

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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

I read what he said as plans for the claim, not necessarily saying that he hadn't done anything, however if you know more than I do on the subject then that OLD file is the current one. (*sigh @ lack of completion of map 2 claims*)
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Post by Witch King »

Then I start working with the file that was uploaded 'Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:54 am' ...

And I suppose that I need to download the latest TR_Data file...?
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Post by Lud »

Yeah, I didn't actually get past planning.
I was never planning to give this claim precedence above the MQ and I only held it while no other NPC/dialogue people were looking for claims.
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Post by Witch King »

Before I start modding, I would like to look around in the area in-game. How in all of tamriel am I supposed to go there? The coc-method doesn't seems to work with areas with spaces in their names...
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Post by Andres Indoril »

Use the good ol' "" marks around the names.
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Post by Haplo »

player-> coc "cell name here"

or just

coc "cell name here"

TR_Data will be updated periodically, make sure you re-download it as often as possible after updates are made. (A post will be made in the Modder Downloads thread, so it'll be easy to notice)
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Post by Witch King »

I have a bunch of questions that I need answers to:

1. There are 3 houses in the Verulas Pass, just before the map ends. Are those the southern part of a village, or is it just them?

2. The croplands around the plantation seems a little empty. Is there supposed to be more crops there?

3. Could someone tell me about that interresting little underground village, Hlersis?
History? Reason to build it underground? etc...

4: Do I have the right to fix bugs? (Found some, I have. ;) )
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Post by Andres Indoril »

3. http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=189544
There should be some information which would suit you there.


4. Yes.
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Post by Gez »

Witch King wrote:4: Do I have the right to fix bugs? (Found some, I have. ;) )
No. Not the right. The duty. :slavedriver:
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Post by theviking »

1: Those three houses are all. We don't make villages at cells borders.
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Post by Nomadic1 »

1: Those three houses are it. They are nearish Alt'Bosara, but that is all.

2: Add more crops if you want. Just don't go overboard, like somebody did at the Orelu Plantation on Map 1. Container flora are very laggy.

3: Hlersis - it is Indoril and so very poor. IIRC they harvest bloatspore there (check the deeper sections to be sure). Bloat is cheap and useful really only for alchemy so there won't be too much change in prosperity.

4: As was said, not the right - the duty to. :slavedriver:
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Post by Witch King »

Who is this Thadas Dral who is running the mine? I know that is is a young noble, but who is his father? Where's he from?

By the way, what do Guars eat? Why do wild Guars attack the player? What is the wildlife like in Area 7 (map2)?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Witch King wrote:Who is this Thadas Dral who is running the mine? I know that is is a young noble, but who is his father? Where's he from?
This is where you come in: these (for the most part, though in some areas there are obviously some characters for whom you'll need more input from people like Lud, such as high ranking House members or political figures etc.) characters are yours to develop. Explain as much or as little as you want via dialogue. I don't believe there is any specific background already in mind for this guy.
Witch King wrote:By the way, what do Guars eat? Why do wild Guars attack the player? What is the wildlife like in Area 7 (map2)?
They eat corkbulb, comberry, ash yams, all the standard Morrowind flora pretty much.

Wild guars attack the player because this is a video game. Personally I have a mod that makes them all passive. Area 7 is probably a mix of Helnim Fields and Mephalain Mountains. Check the appropriate levelled lists for info. (These are what you will place for the most part in exterior cells - under levelled lists, with prefix TR_r_[Name]) Check one of the many maps for what regions yours is actually in.
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Post by Witch King »

What does the "TR_NPC" script do?

Which characters have a pre-made hisory behind them that I should know about?

Can someone tell me about the Indoril? I know very little of them.
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Post by Gez »

Witch King wrote:What does the "TR_NPC" script do?
It attempts to guess which map the NPC belongs to, according to the latest exterior X and Y coordinates of the player.

It is used for dialogues. TR NPCs have two variables that can be used for local dialogue, a >TR_Map< variable that corresponds to the map they are in (from 1 to 6) and a >control< variable that can be used for some advanced dialogue logic. (See for example in map 1 how the Khajiit archer in Bal Oyra will refuse to train you unless you either belong to the Imperial Legion or you have given her moon sugar.)

There is in Data some generic dialogue that is meant to be said by people on the mainland, but not by people on Vvardenfell or Solstheim or in Mournhold. The easiest way to achieve this effect is to filter this dialogue by local TR_Map > 0.



However, do not give this script to the NPCs. It is to be only used for the generic NPCs in TR_Data. Map2 NPCs should use TR_m2_NPC scripts that will be based on the TR_m1_NPC scripts in Map1.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Yeah, make sure you use the appropriate TR_m2_NPC script for each NPC.

Indoril are 'Redoran-esque', if you know how things stand in the vanilla game, but are even more pious to the Temple, and are less outlander friendly. Wheras the Redoran have a 'friendly rivalry' with the Imperial Legion (at least on Vvardenfell), the Indoril are opposed to them.

I'm sure someone else could fill you in more.
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Post by Haplo »

Visit The Imperial Library here:
http://www.imperial-library.info/

And do a search for "Indoril". Spend a day or so reading up on them while you think up ideas, then try and apply them to the existing lore to see what works, what doesn't work, what might work with a little changing, etc.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

And be aware that what's in the 'Forum Scholars Guild' section is not canon.

So no Dres vampires, for example, and much of the other stuff in a couple of articles in that section is just 'fan-fic' (well-researched and hypothesised, of course, but not to be taken as definitive). If it clashes with canon/common-sense/coolness, it can be ignored.
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Post by Witch King »

This is just a backup, in case my computer crashes(or whatever you say). You can look at it if you want but I can't really stand for it yet, beacause of the many dialogue issues that needs to be fixed.

I have fixed some bugs at the plantation and at the Daedric Shrine but I am working with the dialogue at Hlersis at the moment.

Edit: In the Hlersis Mine there is pathgrinding in the water. Is there any point to this?
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Post by blackbird »

You can always ask the expert of Lore, Sload, for information.
House indoril is very traditional and xenophobic, especially to imperials.
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Post by Andres Indoril »

Edit: In the Hlersis Mine there is pathgrinding in the water. Is there any point to this?
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Post by Witch King »

Andres Indoril wrote: Yes, do not question my methods. I have a quest in mind, tell ya :P
Has it anything to do with that hiding slave?

Progress-status: Working with the Erethan Plantation dialogue. Hlersis dialogue - almost finished.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Once Hlersis is done, post up a file and I'll give things the once-over to check you haven't made any mistakes/see whether there are things that need improving/fixing.
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Post by Andres Indoril »

The slave was not hiding. He was collecting bloat, but did not know how to use the boat properly and is afraid of water. One water walking potion coming up? (Some quests can be a little more simple, can they not? :P )
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Post by Witch King »

Edit: Yay, I fixed the problem myself :D

One question though; what does the TR_TestPosScript do? Is it just a testing script or has it any effect in the game?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

I presume you cleaned the .esp. Make sure you do it properly: a lot of TR_Data scripts were modified in this .esp when they shouldn't have been. I dunno if that was you or Andres, but that's what'd happened.

Anyway, few pointers/suggestions:

Check your AI values. At least one guy in Hlersis (the main cell) had 0 Alarm. Also, as an example, TR_m2_Bedaves_Sarothril had too big a wander value for his small cell. It should be about 50 max, not 512.

I would change the name of "Hides, Chains, Plates & Blades". This is a crap name for what is essentially an armour store. This one is clearly the doing of whoever made Hlersis, and not your fault, but it should be changed anyway. It's not useful if our players can't work out what each store is.

TR_m2_Arenar_Talanian is a ruddy Knight Protector?! Tone him down a lot. At most Trooper. I don't think some guy made a knight by the Emporer is going to be hanging around in some dodgy dive in a cave dwelling.

All NPCs with TR_NPC script need to be given TR_m2_NPC script. All slaveScript NPCs need to be given TR_m2_NPC_Slave script. All slave NPCs also need their IDs changed to TR_m2_S_[Name] for convenience. (Make the change, click save and then "No")

NPC TR_m2_Gadali_Sarothril needs her publican script to be expanded to include:

short control
short qcontrol
short TR_Map

near the other "short"s

and the standard TR_m2_NPC block at the very bottom of her script.

Her script's name should be changed to have the TR_m2 prefix.

You should also tick "References Persist" on the room door to get the script working.


All your Orcs need to have gro-/gra- prefixes added to their surnames. (gro for males, gra for females)

TR_m2_Drelom_Dral should not be a "senior member" of House Indoril. He should be one lower, I think. Senior members (we should really get proper ranks implemented, BTW) are those who are very high up the chain. I don't think a plantation owner would be one. You could check with someone like Lud to be sure, though. I would also change the surname of him and his family, if possible, as Dral is the family of the Telvanni Archmagister. I like not to repeat those 'big names'. But that's up to you.

Dialogue now:

In all dialogue topics (and also "my trade") which have BEGIN/END TR MAP2 dividers, you should create a similar (filtered to "dialog placeholder") BEGIN/END TR MAP2 HLERSIS divider underneath it, so that where each settlement's dialogue is is made clear)

For any dialogue that is not filtered to a specific person's ID, or to Guards, you should add a "NotLocal NoLore == 0" filter to all dialogue.

Now specific stuff:

You wonder who I am? Well, I am a hunter who [has] lived in this cave ever since they started mining here. Before that I lived in the wild - just like the animals that I hunt.

%Name [does] services for master. Work in the mine %Name does.

If you['ve never slept in a cave before], then you should try it out here at The Leaking Spore. I find it quite cosy myself.

The services that you can find here in Hlersis [are T]emple services and there's two merchants here as well; Dalam Rethre and Golam Danoran. You should pay them a visit if you need supplies.

If you need supplies you should see Dalam Rethre at "Hides, Chains, Plates & Blades" or pay a visit [to Golam Danoran, the trader].

You don't [look] very well. There is a temple below The Leaking Spore. I would advi[s]e you to go there and get cured at the temple shrine.

If you are searching for the mine itself, then I can help you with directions. [When you first enter] The Leaking Spore, turn right and just follow the path. You can't miss it.

If you are here to rest, then I would recommend The Leaking Spore. Otherwise the trader, Golam, [has] some good wares at his store, which is located close to the entrance.

He is the son of Ermal Dral, and inherited this plantation from his [uncle,] who commited suicide in protest [at] the Empire's power over his people. A noble thing indeed, but fruitless none the less.

He is always in his manor at the Erethan Plantation. He [has] not left it since his wife - my mother - died. He is usually praying to Almalexia at her altar, so there is where you probably will find him.

I have no [interest in] talking about him with you.

Why do you disturb me in my prayers, annoying outlander? -- I would add a filter here of "Function SameFaction == 0", so that he only gets tetchy with non-Indoril

I am Nadene Oril and you are not my guest! Do you need help with anything? Dying perhaps? Get out of my house you Legion-scumbag!-- This topic should be moved above the one currently above it. To do this, select it and press the 'left arrow' button on your keyboard. You should also make a copy filtered to TR_ImperialLegion as well

Please, do not speak to %Name, sera. If %Name [does] not work, master will beat %Name.


Currently, topic "Never leaves his manor" is inaccessible. You must use "addtopic Never leaves his manor" in the results box of a suitable piece of dialogue, or give someone who uses the phrase a piece of dialogue on it.

A couple of topics are dirty - many of them touch the BEGIN/END TR MAP 2 dividers, and topic Temple touches Caius Cosades' dialogue. Clean these out at some point.

On Greetings, make sure that you use Randoms to ensure that sometimes there is no specific Hlersis/other TR-made greeting applicable. This will ensure that sometimes people will use the standard "Good day, sera" type greetings.


Anyway, otherwise this looks like a solid job. Just vary your wander AIs more, and keep checking dialogue for errors.
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Post by Andres Indoril »

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:I presume you cleaned the .esp. Make sure you do it properly: a lot of TR_Data scripts were modified in this .esp when they shouldn't have been. I dunno if that was you or Andres, but that's what'd happened.
My file was as clean as from when I got it from detailing.
Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:I would change the name of "Hides, Chains, Plates & Blades". This is a crap name for what is essentially an armour store. This one is clearly the doing of whoever made Hlersis, and not your fault, but it should be changed anyway. It's not useful if our players can't work out what each store is.
Awws... The cell name got through the reviewing from when I made the whole town :P
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Post by Witch King »

The esp was just a backup and therefore I didn't clean it.

The Topic "Never leaves his manor" was accessable through the dialogue of the guards at the plantation.

Do you have any suggestion what family name I should give the nobles?
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Post by Lud »

This place won't have any real nobles; Indoril nobles wouldn't go live underground in a bloatspore cavern, regardless of the circumstances. Hlersis would be ruled by a hetman, a local leader appointed by the house. You can check out the hetman's house in Khuul of you want to see the level of wealth these guys should have.

Other things to remember about Hlersis:
-This is a crappy place to live and work. Imagine what it'd be like to constantly breath spores, etc.
-The poor working conditions would lead to a certain level of sickness. Add one or two sick NPCs, please.
-The local people would tend to be devout. With little else going for them, they would cling to their faith. Also, the local priest would be trying to do the best for his flock, healing the sick, etc.
-The place would be extremely poor.
-The locals would pretty much all be commoners, etc.
-The locals would have dialogue about the collection of bloat, etc
-Arerar Talnenian; why is he in Hlersis? There should be a good reason for an imperial to go to this shithole.

On the plantation:
-The guys here shouldn't be very rich, either. This area is a backwater; far from Almalexia and the Indoril heartland.
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Post by Gez »

Also, "Arerar" is not a really Imperial-sounding name. You could rename him -- or turn him into a Dunmer.
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Post by Witch King »

Why do they live in Hlersis at all? The locals aren't allowed to work in the mine - only slaves are, so what are they actually doing underground? Why aren't Hlersis located below the sky, instead of below dirt, earth and rock?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

With "never leaves his manor", the topic is not added to your list until addTopic is used, or until you are able to 'click on it'. The guards don't have any dialogue on it, so you're not able to click on it, thus you're not able to add it to your list. Simply give the guards a 'yep, that's true' or something, entry, and then it'll work just fine.

For the name of the family (you can still keep them, just don't make 'em 'senior members' of House Indoril) what about "Araryn"?
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Post by Haplo »

Witch King wrote:Why do they live in Hlersis at all? The locals aren't allowed to work in the mine - only slaves are, so what are they actually doing underground? Why aren't Hlersis located below the sky, instead of below dirt, earth and rock?
I don't know but unless you want to move it all above ground and provide me with a convincing reason why in 3 hours or less it's not changing.
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Post by Witch King »

Well, I like the idea of having a settlement like this underground, but I was just wondering if you had any idea why they built it there...?
"We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

/ Malekith, The Witch King of Naggaroth
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Nomadic1
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Post by Nomadic1 »

Bloat.

Too poor to buy land.

If you can't come up with a history of the place, don't give one.
<insert witty signature here. i might spend time trying to come up with something, but its not like anybody reads these anyway>
blackbird
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Post by blackbird »

Perhaps they built it once as a refuge or a shelter against some threat (perhaps 80-years old war). Perhaps this town has the cheapest houses of MW or perhaps some people are running away from something.
I was even thinking about someone from the boethia cult who have gone to Hlersis to hide himself for the other cult members.
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Gez
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Post by Gez »

Nomadic1 wrote:Too poor to buy land.
That's certainly a good reason. You can look at Ashamul for the same thing. They could have built shacks outside but then they'd have to pay heavier taxes, which they can't afford because they're dirt poor.
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Lud
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Post by Lud »

Why would House Indoril want to have to look at such scumbag peasants? They'd only clutter the place up.
It's also a good way to keep themselves safe from bandits and House Wars with the Telvanni, etc.
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
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Gnomey
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Post by Gnomey »

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:I would change the name of "Hides, Chains, Plates & Blades". This is a crap name for what is essentially an armour store. This one is clearly the doing of whoever made Hlersis, and not your fault, but it should be changed anyway. It's not useful if our players can't work out what each store is.
I have no problem with a name change, but I don't see your problem with this; those are all things that an armourer might sell: Hides = Netch Leather, Chains = Imperial Chain, Plates = pretty much all Platemail and Scalemail and Blades = Blades, obviously. Then again, shops are usually just called "~Name~: Armourer" in Morrowind.
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Post by Witch King »

I wonder if you, Lud, could write the Darconis-Windmoth.txt file in doc-format instead and make it easier to read. http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17467&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

I also wonder if the events presented in the file have already happended or if they occur during the MQ...?

Btw, I would still like to know what the wildlife is like in Map 7...?
"We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

/ Malekith, The Witch King of Naggaroth
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