Archaeologists

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:07 am

I saw Hermit mention this in the OOI forum.

Thought I'd mention the book The Ruins of Kemel-Ze has references to the "Imperial Society", who are apparently archaeologists. The main character in the book sounded like an Indiana Jones type; well, maybe less tough and more adventurous.

I made a post about this at the old board [before hearing about the Imperial Society], so I'll repost it here.

Premise: Touched upon in the Mage's guild and Aryon to some extent, this is an idea that could stand on it's own rather than as minimal side-nothingness. There are a few people on Morrowind who are interested enough in the subject. So, these people would undoubtedly be interested in similar sites outside Morrowind. . . and surely people outside of Morrowind of a similar mind would be interested in ruins elsewhere. You could be sent all over Tamriel by various kooks unearthing god knows what.

Types of quests:
The standard fetch - Dwemer coins, armors, various artifacts, nutty unique items (also in Daedric shrines). Spice it up by sending the player to fetch Rusty Cogs to work Dwemer machinery, which would then open lower (or upper) areas of a Dwemer ruin under investigation. Use Dwemer coins to power. . . um. . . magic fingers on one of those crappy Dwemer beds. . . or something.
The standard Protect / Secure location - Oh snap! Stupid smugglers and/or Daedra and/or Daedra worshippers are invading and making research a pain. Better killify them. Or, for the non-violent, convince them of the inherant coolness of the Archaeologists' cause.
The nonstandard Protect - Wouldn't you just know it? We're running out of funds for research! We must maintain a presence at the site, lest beasties or worshippers or smugglers move in! Go to [city] and pay off [official]. Could be compounded by an official's coruptness. Or. . . The Temple (insert appropriate group) says we shouldn't be here. Go convince [jerk magistrate] that the research is vital (killing him may be a viable option).
Special 1 - A fun, fun task. Fetch a book about Dwemer ballistas. Go to x Dwemer ruin (populated by researchers), climb up into the seat of a nearby ballista, and fire it as a demonstration (I've no idea how difficult that would be to do, but it would be very bad-ass. A one-time animation, with the bolt thing being forever stuck in the landscape thereafter).
Special 2 - After launching the bolt, some nosy Archaeologists notice that there are some strange markings on it, not unlike the Dwemer Puzzle Box. You're given a paper drawing of the bolt's markings, to take to a Dwemer expert (eg the dude at the Balmora Fighter's Guild). He'll explain how to work it. Return to the bolt, activate it, and it'll set off an explosion (high fire damage over a meduim range) and blacken the stuck bolt. Talk to a surviving Archaeologist to be told something like "Oh well. If we didn't try, we'd never know. I'll take a few dead here and there over ignorance. As long as I'm not one of the dead."

And the real cool point:
Special 3 - A multi-part task. Think Stronghold building.
Phase 1: Go to x remote location, place a marker on the ground. Return to quest giver. At this point, you've got an uninteresting plain.
Phase 2: Get workers. Check local eggmines, whereever. Report back to quest giver.
Phase 3: Check back at the marker, where an Archaeologist foreman is standing around some work tents, with miners milling around. He'll tell you that work will progress shortly.
Phase 4: About a week later, the miners will have uncovered part of a ruin (Dwemer, Daedric, or other, doesn't matter). The foreman will complain that the workers aren't skilled enough, and you should get some more delicate workers - that is, talk to Archaeologists at other ruins who's quests you've completed.
Phase 5: 2 weeks later, the hole goes deep enough that you've got a part of the ruin you can actually enter.
From this point on, the workers will concentrate on areas inside the ruin, and unearth, say, four levels all told.

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:14 am

don't use the one in tha Balmora Fighters guild some one else would do. I like the idea allot. Now any one now who was working on this. I know some one was but who???

Rockwell · Post by **Rockwell** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:31 am

This is a really sweet and well thought out idea for a guild. Only problem with that 'really cool point' though is that you can't deform the actual landscape to make a hole in the ground. I guess you could use a whole bunch of rock statics piled on top of each other, and as time progresses, more and more of those rocks are removed. I think a better idea than that is to create a series of ground models that as time goes by, there's a bigger and bigger hole in it and evenentually you'll be able to see the ruins.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am

Hermit mentioned he and Katse were planning something in the Archaeological vein.
Having been interested in it before, I was wondering how that was going.

RaJevir · Post by **RaJevir** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:58 am

This would be really cool. Though we should try to stay away from generic type "fetch" and "kill" quests, and try to make every one special in its own way. This goes for all factions.

Katse · Post by **Katse** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:25 pm

Yes, an archaeologists guild is in the queue. I haven't completed fleshing out what quests will be involved, but there are hardly any "fetch" quests. Most of them involve finding lost ruins (like a Morrowind Pompeii, and the Bal Fell ruin) and using clues found in the ruins to lead to some special artefact. Excavating and exploring the ruins will be a lot more difficult than just finding a cave and walking through them. Some parts may only be accessible by levitation, and I was hoping to incorporate maps or directions, where the PC would, upon finding the "X" on the map, would encounter a "teleport to place A" trigger--to take him or her to a part of the ruin completely invisible and inaccessible unless the clue is found and the teleport area activated.

Another part of the quest scheme was to give the PC the choice of working undercover to expose the main blackmarket artefacts dealers. While working in this capacity, the PC cannot have any contact with anyone in his/her guild--doing so would expose him/her as a spy. The blackmarket dealers would have a bounty on the PC's head, and nothing would be able to remove it unless you killed off the dealers who were out to get you. However, this option in the quest has none of the rewards of completing the quest as the spy. Once the PC has enough evidence, the dealers can be turned in and are removed from the game (you can visit them in prison and taunt them if you want

). The rewards are magnificent--you get to pick from the cache of each dealer what you want as payment. I'm hoping that the artefacts would not only include mundane objects such as household objects, but one of a kind weapons, armor, clothing, jewelry and relic-type articles (like the Bitter Cup).

Being able to work alone and unravel the blackmarket web of connections will require someone skilled in espionage--you can't go around killing every NPC, because you may find invaluable allies in former enemies as the quest progresses.

So, does this sound good? Or should I take it back to the drawing board?

Katse

RaJevir · Post by **RaJevir** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:23 pm

Yes, and that could apply for more than just the Archaeologists guild. There are several factions that wouldn't mind an undercover agent (and several that would never even consider it

).

We should also have it so you can become a smuggler. You would have to find contacts, and gain recognition, though only between possible allies. It wouldn't be an actual guild (though some guilds (Thieves guild, Camona Tong) may do smuggleing on their own. Instead, it would be a more freelance positon, though you would need the help of some allies to succeed.

Katse · Post by **Katse** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:04 pm

That is why you become a spy. You are to infiltrate the blackmarket, and when you earn the trust of the head honchos, then you do the smugging and contacting yourself. That's how you learn who the real criminals are, and that's how you get the evidence to report them to the proper authorities.

A number of factions would benefit from this type of quest. But you can't overuse it either, or it becomes a gimmick. Each faction should try to come up with their unique quest pattern, to keep away from formulaic quest making.

Katse

RaJevir · Post by **RaJevir** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:18 pm

Some of us would want to be actual smugglers, not spys for some *lawful* orginization... You could hunt down those blasted spys... Or make secret bargans with them... anything for a bit of coin...

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:10 pm

I'm trying to build a smuggeling hideout right now. Maybe I'll add in that you can make contacts thier and even order them to smugle things and you gat some of the profit.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:08 pm

Heh ... Khajit ... that cats really are born to be criminals ...

@Katse: Great ideas! Both the adventure-style puzzles, and the undercover spywork. That should make the quests interesting even for Lord Aram Gallant the god-like level 200 Paladin, as it challenges the player's logic and intelligence rather than their attributes and skills. We need more quests of that type (actually, we *need* such quests; I can't remember even one in all Bethesda products!).

I also like Earl's idea of a fireable Dwarven Ballista (I generally like the idea of controllable artillery), maybe something like that could be done, and the activator-based dungeon (though I'd make this a minor quest).

Very nice ideas, I want more of them!

And as for the guild, we could use the name "Imperial Society" I think. It's nice, short, and has that touch of royality and elitism I'd like to see in that guild - like the archaeologists of victorian england. I think it's quests should follow the indiana jones way (adventureous, rather than combat-oriented, to give all those people who value riddles and detective work, meaning adventure players, like myself, something to do); maybe add a little lara-croftish action here and there, a bit of hopping, levitating, running (the classic moving-walls-with-spikes trap comes to mind), and of course, riddles. Also, the quests should involve a large number of sub-quests - convince some official to allow archaeologists to work in his fiefdom; find key or clues to riddles in a library; explore a dungeon to get the next clue leading to some legendary artifact occasionally maybe defend against smugglers or retrieve stuff, but that should be kept down.
There also should be a lot of books and scriptures that give clues, and maybe powerful creatures that give riddles (there are, after all, sphinxes in Tamriel; so we should make them act like sphinxes).

Geez, that sounds like a lot of work. But the outcome will be well worth it - I have huge faith in Katse there

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:30 pm

Archaeology and studying the dwemer are traditionally done by the mages guild. There are several quests on Vvardenfell dealing with it, mostly from the ald'ruhn mages guild. I think that it should be considered part of the mages guild, but a different sect that studies archaeology.

Vagara · Post by **Vagara** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:45 pm

I think it should be part of the Imperial Society, a separate joinable group, structured, similar to the East Empire Company (Bloodmoon). It would definitely be very friendly to the Mages Guild (perhaps members of the Mages Guild provide the funding and clues...)

Ben

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:00 pm

The guild should be friends with the mages (and the fighters; Hasphat Anabolis, a famous archaeologist, has his office at the Balmora fighters guild after all). Double membership schould certainly be possible (can this be done for NPCs, too?). But they should be separate. And no, the benefactors would propably not only be rich and curious mages (though they would be among them), but also adventureous cyrodiilic and summerset nobles, as well as rich merchants and just about anyone else interested in digging up Tamriel's past, either for knowledge, adventure, fame, or simply shiny things to put up in one's show room.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:43 pm

Being an archaeologist-in-training myself, I think this is a kick-ass idea. I agree that the "Imerial Society" should be a serperate group. Perhapse even have rivalries with the mages group over discoveries or property claims, since both are obviously involved in the study of Dwermer and Daedric ruins.
Hell, you could even have some ashlanders or disgruntled dwermer spirits interfere with the dig claiming it as a disgrace to their cultural herritage or something j/k.
As for the Indiana Jones approach this sounds great. One thing that bothered me about Morrowind was that there are no vastly huge dungeons/caves to explore. Only a hand-full big enough to get lost in. Something large that required maps and a few spells and potions and some serious bravery would be great.
Maybe even trap devices and ancient monsters. Hell, this could be a minie Tomb Raider adventure

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:56 pm

We need deadly rolling giant stone balls - no ancient ruin without one

.

Erm. But seriously, there must be some large dungeons - at least in mainland Morrowind, and (since this is to be a bolt-on), on Vvardenfell as well. On Vvardenfell, there will be a sort of old dunmer (or daedric?) Pompeii in the ashlands - an entire city covered in lava - and a huge dungeon below Bal Fell, infested with nasty daedra. Also, there iwll be the great shrine of Mephala (in 4-17 and 4-19, possibly even extending nto 4-20), and there is Ald Daedroth, another large ruin. All these will have huge dungeons as well.

And ancient monsters, whee, that would be bosses

Morrowind also had a lack of unique boss critters. We could use lore creatures, like some daedra, or others (like from that TES cell phone game).

Hey LotG, would you want to contribute quest/ruin/guild ideas? We'd welcome any contribution.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:15 pm

Sure, i'd be happy to help in any way possible. As i understand it this resembles more of the Victorian notion of Archaeology, which isnt to bad to write for. I wouldnt mind trying my hand at dungeon design either if that'd be ok, i'd just need help with stuff like how to post it and what format it should be in. Once my damn finals and this semester are all out of the way (17th = last one!!!) i should actually have some time to do stuff.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:33 pm

Yeah, I really like that chauvinist victorian archaeologists - in a game at least

- and I think it fits much better into the world of TES than modern, scientific, careful studying and all-traces-conserving archaeology, though it is no doupt more effective, but it just lacks the glamour, and adventure opportunities.

Having said that (and, it's a fantasy game after all), we'd appreciate both dungeon desgin (even random dungeons - they just have to be large, and full of traps, hard to reach areas, ultra-deep gorges ect - as well as any idea for that project you can come up with. Just post it in this forum.

Katse · Post by **Katse** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:59 pm

I'm only lukewarm on the Indiana Jones approach--I don't think the archaeologists should all be whip-toting, boulder-dodging relic hunters. I'm willing to split it half and half, approximately. My degree in university was Classics, so I've done the whole archaeology spiel--and I'm no Indiana Jones! We can't forget that translation, deciphering is just as important as the difficulties finding, excavating and exploring.

Katse

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:05 pm

if you need an tombs I can create them.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:30 pm

Well, of course, I'm all with you there. However, we should integrate some action elements - like traps, rolling boulders, ect - to surprise the player, to keep them busy running and reacting every now and then.
Still, hunting for books that contain vital information (hunting meaning that you search for it; it may or may not be in the grand library of Blacklight, maybe only an eccentric mages guild member has it, and would not give it to anyone?), looking for clues to certain sites, library research work (reading through books - hey, we write them, we want them to be read, not just opened and closed for the learning effect), talking to NPCs, ect should make up about 60% of the quests, subquests and tasks the Player has to do.
Also, there should be riddles integrated into the dungeons - I really missed such things in most Morrowind dungeons, which were very straigt forward and action oriented.

But there should be at least _one_ giant rolling boulder. It is a terrible clichÃƒÂ©, but then again, there's this guy Indie in the OFFICIAL (!!!) Morrowind file (dying man's last words). He has two legendary (well, legendary among archaeologists

) items - a whip and a lucky hat. Those should be unique anyway.

About the whip-toting part - well, I'd like to put something like this in, but keep it down, more of a joke than something useful. There is a whip mod around somewhere. We could make that whip a legendary item (of Indies'), and the search for that dead archaeologist legend a side quest - but keep it down, and the whip would be kept by the archaeologists guild in a shrine to honor their late hero (the player might, however, be allowed to keep the hat; morrowind is a little short on non-armored head coverings).

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:52 am

Originally posted by Eraser
Archaeology and studying the dwemer are traditionally done by the mages guild. There are several quests on Vvardenfell dealing with it, mostly from the ald'ruhn mages guild. I think that it should be considered part of the mages guild, but a different sect that studies archaeology.

And the Blades are supposed to be in charge of that sort of thing, too.

And there's a mention of a Chair of Dwemer Studies in the CS:
[Edwinna on both] Currently, the Chair is empty and the Great Houses can't agree on a replacement. I believe Hasphat Antabolis was nominated... I'd try to get the position myself, but I fear all the meetings and bookkeeping would take time away from my research.

I will, of course, turn the device over to the Chair of Dwemer Studies... just as soon as I've finished my research.

The Ruins of Kemel-Ze only mentions the Imperial Society, not the Mages Guild or Blades.
Mages Guild members in Dwemer ruins don't mention Blades.
Blades themselves don't have all that much to say about Dwemer ruins.

All in all, I'm not sure what the hell is going on with Dwemer studies. Maybe the Blades only oversee excavation, and don't give a hoot what the Mages do with it after. Maybe the Imperial Society acts illegally. Maybe everyone gets approval from the Blades before they do anything. Then again, Edwinna didn't think twice about having you fetch her objects from ruins. Maybe the Blades give certain citizens or organizations free reign.

I would say that breaking up smuggling rings would probably be the place of Census and Excise. From dialog: "Census and Excise is the Imperial agency that collects taxes and tariffs. You know... the taxman. Their agents also investigate smugglers and other tax cheats."

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:00 am

If I make some generic tombs and caves should i post them here for others to finish off and stuff. I am good at the layout but things like traps and technical things i am completly unskilled at (and have little patients for).
Also, when making an interior cell do i simply zip the mod and post it here? There's nothing fancy i need to know is there?

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:42 am

@Earl: I think there are a lot of organisations competing for relics in Tamriel. And though there will (must!) be other sites of interest, the chief focus will always be the mysterious dwemer.

1. The Imperial Society and the Mages guild (propably work more or less with one another, amy have double memberships in the higher ranks, ect). Both are dedicated to science as well as prestige.
The imperial society, by the way, seemingly maintains chairs at universities, as late indie writes in his (in)famous last word that he misses his students.

2. Criminals, like the Thieves guild or the Camorra Tong, also regularly conduct expeditions to dwemer sites, to take everything valuable from there, and sell it to the highest bidder. They don't care about what they destroy by doing so, and regularly clash with other interested parties.

3. The Blades (and, through them, the Emperor himself) are military intelligence, and are neither interested in mapping every single pot and tube nor in looting all valuables; rather, they seek to know the secrets of dwemer artificery, and possibly a way to repair and restart Numidium. They are noone's friend, will work with all involved parties and against them at some point, and usually can call for the legions if they don't get their way.

4. Local politicans and rulers (in Morrowind, that might be the houses, and the dukes) will react differenty, and unpredictably. Some will tolerate the imperial society (and propably even the criminals, like house H'laalu seemingly does), if they get enough of the loot for their coffers and have a say in what the society does; they might even closely cooperatie with the Society, out of genuine interest of their own past (that seems to be the case with Dunmer houses). Others might view excavations with less tolerance, especially Argonians come to mind there.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:30 am

Well, well, well.

This ties in very well with my current concept of the claim I will hopefully begin work on very soon (I just submitted the claim for it). The focus of the region is an extensive kwama egg mine, but there is something odd about this mine. At some point during the tunnelling it connected with and broke into deep, old, Daedric ruins. In the lower levels kwama and Daedra mix freely, having developed a close (if uneasy) alliance. The discovery was made by the miners themselves and word spread quickly throughout the region. Before long a group of Archaeologists came along and set up in the nearby town. They compete now with the Redoran/Temple faction and local Daedra worshippers for control of the mine and its various parts.

This was my story so far. Most of the quests I had visualized for my claim were focused around this. It seems to me this would be a great tie-in with the Imperial Society, possibly a whole series of quests unto itself. House Redoran controls the active mining levels, but the deeper tunnels are still full of dangerous creatures and are as yet unclaimed by any particular faction. At least, no one can really hold a claim yet.

Those are my thoughts so far. What do you think?

Nehron

Sniper4 · Post by **Sniper4** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:38 am

This all looks really exciting!!! I can't wait to play it...it will take some time before Morrowind is fully playable...but I still can't wait!!! heheheeheheee.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:15 am

@Nehron: Hm, nice idea. So the archaeologist Player would have to both sneak into the mine past Redoran mercenaries (I'd guess they'd be far better armed than the IS guys, and hence, would seize control of the minse sooner or later by force), and fight your way through the daedric critters, a daedric labyrinth, to either find the priced artifact, the hint for a larger quest, the boss monster, or all at once.
A thought: Maybe the daedra don't form an alliance with the kwarma, maybe they take possession of them, or control the queen, deforming them at will, creating custom TR kwarma mutants, and a huge, twisted, half-daedric kwarma queen who might even be the boss. The whole neterprise might, then, either be controlled by a powerful mage seeking to disrupt business in the egg mine and claim whatever artifact of power rests in there for himslef, and set up a base in there, or even a sceme by some daedric prince, who wants the ruins man-free for whatever ends.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:32 am

Lol, nice idea. Unfortunately, I have no skill creating such amalgamations. To create the sort of twisted, custom creatures you're talking about would require considerable outside help in the modeling department. Anyone interested?

I like the idea though, very much. My own current concept of the Daedric plot on my claim was just a vague idea of a local witches' covey that was somehow allied with the Daedra. Perhaps the witches simply hate the local populace, perhaps they want the profits for themselves, or maybe they are under the orders of some Daedra prince with his own foul schemes for the area.

I wonder if anyone else has already planned some tie-in to the Imperial Society in their plugin? (mine would be a group of them based at the Imperial Compound in Al Fasc, one of the gates into Morrowind province).

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:53 am

Hmmm, witches ... can't remember there are too many of them in Morrowind. I think the ordinators have them receive their 'reeducation' at the asteroid prison in Vivec.

maybe the withces coven wants revenge for what happened to one of their sisters? like that witch in the 2029 sewries did, only somewhat lesser in scope as none of them is a once-in-a-thousand-years daedra summoner?
Or maybe their regular teatimes with good old Sheogorath just drove them mad, had them kill their sisters, and then BLAME the ordinators for that. Heh. If I was told by some witch the ordniators had murdered one of them, I'd believe it instantly

.
By the way, who does Black Gate?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:12 am

No clue on the Black Gate question. Check the claims maps. The revenge thing would be feasible, I guess, but this is a complete covey of witches here, not a covey missing some of its members. Besides, if they're followers of Sheogorath they won't much care if a few of their sisters die, will they? There was a crazy lady in the main quest like that. Living and dying was all part of the great game, and combat was the same as dancing, or something. Regardless, the point of the witches was to form the third side of a triangular struggle for control of the kwama-ruin (Habursanipal). The Redorans check the Society, the Society has some item or influence with which to check the witches, and the witches manipulate Daedra and kwama to harry the Redorans.

But this is detracting from the original point of the thread, that being a discussion of the Imperial Society as a sort of Archaeologists' Guild. We have some idea now what kind of quests they would undertake, but we need to know more. How are they organized? What sort of ranks are used? Other than remote camps, where do they gather? What is the overall goal/mission of the Society?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 1:07 am

*BUMP*

I am reviving this thread 'cuz it I finally become Arch-Mage of Vvardenfell the other day, and on my way to doing so I completed all of Edwinna's silly little archaeological quests. From this I gleaned a few important bits of information that could be very helpful to anyone working on constructing an Imperial Society:

*There have been official Imperial-sanctioned expeditions to sites on Vvardenfell, suggesting that there already is an unnamed 'Imperial Society'-type thing going on. We could easily expand on this.

*Since possession of Dwemer artifacts is illegal unless you happen to be the EEC or some Imperially-favored group (i.e. Imperial Society), perhaps the Mages Guild's study of Dwemer ruins (and removal of artifacts) is something that a rigid Imperial Society would be trying to expose to some higher Imperial authority. (w/o much luck, as illegal possession of Dwemer artifacts is pretty common on Vvardenfell)

*Besides supervising archaeological digs and such, the Imperial Society would make frequent attempts to steal the research and artifacts held by members of the Mages Guild.

So, yeah. Tell me what you think. I don't want this idea to die out, 'cuz I think it's really cool.

Returning to my forestation work,
Nehron

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:06 am

Hasphat and Edwinna seem to get along, so I'd guess there's some sort of cooperation among the Imperial Guilds on this.

Maybe the Blades just oversee excavation, sort of keep track of who's poking around what ruins. The Imperial Society would look around and see what cool stuff there is to pick up and play with, then ship their finds to the Blades (if something looks especially dangerous or powerful) or the Mages Guild [and other Imperial scholars like Hasphat] (for more educational pieces).

Basically, the Blades would say "this stuff might blow us all up, so we'll hide it away where no one gets to play with it", while less overtly destructive things get sent off to folks who can figure out what it's supposed to be. And the Imperial Society gets to say they were the ones to unearth all that neat stuff, risking life and limb against Dwemer robots, having powerful artifacts and curiosities pass through their hands. And a few of these brave souls forget that maybe a trinket or two fell into their pockets along the way ;)

The old man wiped dust from his sweat-streaked face, looking at the boy with mild annoyance "Son," he was undoubtedly used to calling everyone with hair a color other than his own grey such, "I know what those damnfools at the University say about procedure and protocol and whatnot. That stuff sounds nice and it makes sense, but here in the real world, those Blades fellers will only come down on ya if they think you're holding onto a piece of the Numidium. And those Guild eggheads love all the plans and books we give 'em." he coughed and waved away at the dust cloud to little effect "But have you actually seen any of those plans or books? Gods, son, you seen one airship plan you seen 'em all. They ain't missing nothing if every once in a while something disappears from a site." he sniffed "Of course, you're just a pup; you try hiding things from the boss, all you'll get is broken fingers and jailtime. And you kids are dumb. You try grabbing too much at once. Boss'll pretend not to notice if one thing in four jobs falls into your pocket, but you make it too obvious, you do it too often, it looks bad. Then the boss'll pretend to be surprised some idiot kept something for himself and hand you off to a guard." the old man grinned evilly, "Then again, you start hoarding bits of that Numidium thingamajig, or if you even make someone think you are, don't no guards come for you. You make something like that disappear from a site, you disappear one fine day before too long."

Corruption is rampant in the Empire, so as long as nothing too important goes missing, I'd figure the folks in charge would count themselves lucky and not rock the boat.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:30 am

I have to say, I do like this idea a lot. Put me down as having offered my services on this, I know I can throw together some fairly unique interiors for this, and can probably figure some scripting for those stubborn walls you need out of the way and things of that nature. Speaking of which, what effect do you think dwemer satchel-type devices would have on the archaeologists?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:38 am

Satchel-type devices? You'll have to elaborate, friend.

Also, someone has to explain to me why we have to involve the Blades in the dwemer artifacts thing. I don't remember hearing about them interfering in Dwemer excavations ever before; indeed, I would've thought such things quite below them. Their real job is holding the fragile Empire together through covert operations (MQ Morrowind). They would surely not waste their valuable time supervising a few scholars that might (*gasp*) pocket one or more artifacts. Political tensions tend to take priority over such things. Even if this normally falls under the job description of the Blades, they wouldn't have any time for it during the chaotic period in which our game is set. Remember that at least one major Blades member was recalled to Cyrodiil (Mr. Cosades) and the others operating in Morrowind are surely on alert.

These are only my feelings on the matter, but you are welcome to prove me wrong.

Glad to have read "Ruins of Kemel-Ze",
Nehron

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:34 pm

The dwemer satchels in Tribunal that are used to clear out the fallen rocks to obtain the pyroil for Trueflame. My thought is that it probably wouldn't be all that uncommon for the archaeologists to have come across some of these items and perhaps even try to reproduce the devices.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:08 am

Hmmm. Interesting. I never actually played the Tribunal MQ, more's the pity, so I obviously missed out on a bit of Morrowind lore. From where do you obtain the dwemer satchels in Tribunal? How would the archaeologists obtain these when they almost never retreive anything but unfuctioning fragments of old Dwemer mechanisms, i.e. armor (robot casing), cogs and wheels (replacement parts), dwemer tubes, (more parts), and scrap metal?

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:15 am

Census and Excise agent"
"You do not know this? They are the collectors of the Emperor's taxes and tariffs. And the Emperor has outlawed trade in many things, like Dwemer artifacts and ebony, and a Census and Excise agent will enjoy being a pest about such things. . ."

The EEC is allowed to trade in raw ebony and glass, and Dwemer artifacts.

"preserve the peace" [Imperial Legion]
"Bandits threaten traders and travelers, and smuggling is a widespread criminal enterprise, particularly smuggling of raw ebony, moon sugar, and artifacts salvaged from Dwemer ruins."

"Dwemer artifacts"
"Weapons, armor, housewares, coins, and other items of Dwemer design are often found in Dwemer ruins. They are prized by historians and antiquarians, and very valuable. The Emperor, however, has declared all newly discovered Dwemer artifacts to be possessions of the Crown, and forbids their trade or sale. Now smuggling Dwemer artifacts is treason, but smugglers will still risk execution for such a profitable crime."

"Dwemer artifacts"
"Artifacts salvaged from Dwemer ruins are valuable, but protected under Imperial law, and trade in such artifacts is illegal. Most valuable are Dwarven weapons and armor, both for their superb craftsmanship, and for their value to collectors and scholars."

"Dwemer artifact"
"Fast Eddie says Divayth Fyr collects Dwemer artifacts. Yes, I know it's treason to trade in Dwemer artifacts, but don't worry about it. I'm a big-shot Imperial Spymaster, remember? . . ."

"Dwemer ruins"
"Dwemer artifacts taken from Dwemer ruins are very valuable, particularly Dwemer weapons, armor, and other enchanted devices, but they are protected as property of the Emperor by Imperial decree, and trade in such artifacts is illegal."

"little advice"
"Yes, buying and selling Dwarven artifacts without an Imperial charter is illegal. But I've never heard of anyone pinched for it."

Someone at the old board mentioned it, and I could've sworn I read something to that effect somewhere, but damned if I can find it now. To put it another way, maybe. . . Trade in Dwemer stuff is illegal. But Census and Excise doesn't have the muscle to do anything about it, and the Legion has better things to do. If Uriel was interested in rebuilding the Numidium like Tiber Septim was, you can bet he wouldn't trust anyone but the Blades with that.

The dwemer satchels in Tribunal were found in an undisturbed ruin beneath Mournhold, and were all inside chests.

"what effect do you think dwemer satchel-type devices would have on the archaeologists?

If you stand too close when they go off, it's an instant-kill. At least, I would assume so. I had well over 400 HP, and I got all blowed up.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:58 am

Oh yeah, they're definitely an instant kill, the script is a sethealth to 0 if under 300 distance deal, it's also possibly a bit buggy (didn't work at all for me, so I had to go into it on the editor and "improve" it)
I've actually been thinking about tinkering with it further, flying debris, visible explosive radius, shrapnel-type damage if you're past the instant-kill zone but still not far enough out of the blast radius, still a bit of toying around to do with it. I would have to assume, since they do make a career of it, the archaeologists would've at least come across one or two of them, hell, I found all three of them under Mournhold without even trying to find them, before it was even necessary to have them.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:45 pm

Just a quick bump. This is NOT dead, even though most people involved in it's making have left, sadly.

I am taking this over. I welcome any contributers who will want to help me write books and stuff, make jup legends, and so forth. I will, however, insist on lore obedience. WhenI posted this, I was still green concerning lore, and soem of the things I suggested were a bit ... noobish. Also, a skilled artist who would make me more dwemer scematics of vorrheis' new dwemer creatures (mechs, steam gigas, ballista-with-legs) as well as more outlandish scetches would be very much welcome.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:49 pm

If it has anything to do with Dwemer - count me in.