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Claim: q1-61-Tri Claimed by Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Maps In Group Map 1 at (4020, 1473)
Accurate map
Parent: 1-37-Tel
 Status: Approved, 100% Complete
 Faction: Tribunal Temple
 Quest type:
 NPCs:
 Dialogue:
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TR_q1-61-Tri_Bloodthirsty Crustacean_1.esp 144.8 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
Description
Description in first post. Placing it here makes the claim's browser difficult to use as the entire test appears in the summary.
Last Edited by Haplo
(Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:34 pm) Post
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Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

Tribunal Temple

Note: This outline is designed to be the initial quests in the Temple and lead up to a conflict line with the cult of Molag Bal (no more conflict with the IC). These quests are intended to be playable by any member of the Temple, regardless of what they are doing with other factions. The conflict line will be different in that the player must choose a side and will no longer be able to advance in the other factions involved in the conflict. These quests actually do have a common thread and an intelligent player may realize that Molag Bal plays a part in nearly all of them after the first (though this is hidden). All quests are started at the temple in Ranyon-Ruhn, with Ratagos as the quest giver. Three pilgrimages are needed before doing nay quests, three more will be added when Map 2 is complete, and all 6 will need to be done in order to play any Temple quests on either map and all Temple quest givers on Map 1 and 2 will give this set of 6 pilgrimages (at least that is my current idea). A different 6 pilgrimage sites will be used on pairs of later maps (similar to the compromise on Morag Tong quests).

TT1a:
Prerequisites: None
Description: The player must make a pilgrimage to a shrine near Ranyon Ruhn, the shrine sits on the piece of land above the cave of Dadadrome in Molagreahd (27, 10). [The cave is full of scamps with an Ogrim boss.] Proposed Backstory: Cave where Vivec hunted down and slew the last Biter (progeny of his sexual congress with Molag Bal, see 36 Lesson, Book 14 [or at least that's how I interpret it, he certainly took to hunting them in any event]).

TT1b:
Prerequisites: None
Description: The player is asked to make a pilgrimage to the “Isle of Arches” (a western island in the Telvanni Isles, cell (32,20) which is near the center of the island), and prey at a shrine there (they need to bring 5 slaughterfish scales along). Back-story for this shrine: site where Vivec stood when he submerged Morrowind during the Akviri invasion. The point of this quest is that the Tribunal needs to have a pilgrimage before the player can really start working for them.

TT1c:
Prerequisites: None
Description: The player is asked to make a pilgrimage to Aegondo point (26, 20) and prey at the shrine there (shrine needs to be created). The player is told to be careful and to skirt the Daedric ruin near the Tribunal Shrine [Ruin is devoted to Sheograd or Boethiah, statue or partial statue of each inside]. When the player reaches the shrine they find a small camp (one bedroll and a fire and chest) and a man who wishes to charge the player a 100 Septim fee for praying at the shrine. If the player does not pay the man attacks [the camp site exists already, the NPC was not created during NPC creation and will be a level < 6, Agent or Scout.] The player needs to bring 2 fortify intelligence potions (of any quality) to the site to pray properly. Proposed Site Background: This is the site where Vivec destroyed coincidence in the lands of the Velothi, while still being carried in the simulacurum that bore him. [This story is one of my favourites and is from Volume 4 of the 36 lessons (first 7 paragraphs).]

TT2:
Prerequisite Quests: All TT1 quests complete
Description: Ratagos asks the player to travel to Port Telvannis and attempt to drum up support with the commoners there for the Temple. The player will be rewarded based on the number of people they talk to the Temple about (10+ for best reward). The player is also to deliver a message to the Council House (coded in standard ESIII code and in daedric font) and return with a response (“No.”). If the player is clever they can decode the message and learn that it asks if the Council is dealing with Molag Bal. The Telvanni also send a warning not to intrude into their affairs and that the Temple is unwelcome in Port Telvannis. Ratagos also tells the player to show compassion to slaves he or she finds there and heal any that have been diseased, as the long trip to Port Telvannis often takes its toll on slaves. The player can find 4 slaves in PT to cure with potions or magic (common diseases, unknown selection; what is common on Map 1?). The slaves that have been give this dubious honor of being diseased are Massa-lug, Haj'Ralah, Lucious Charnis, and Noribus (all are found at the slave pens to fit the idea they got a disease while being shipped to Port Telvannis, these can be changed). The players reward is also based on the number of diseased slaves cured.

TT3:
Prerequisite Quests: TT2
Description: The player is sent to Gah Oudaruhn to drum up support for the Temple there (same game as Q2 only the player need only talk with 6 people about the Temple to get highest reward. While there the player is asked to heal a sick commoner named Yishni who the Telvanni apparently refuse to help, as she does not have money (She is in her housepod right now, level 8 commoner). The Yishni is missing when the player arrives in Gah Oudaruhn. If the player returns to Ranyon-Ruhn they are told to investigate her disappearance (the intelligent player will do so without being told). Investigating the disappearance the player learns that the person was seen slipping out at night to the south of Gah Oudaruhn. If the player travels that way in daytime they find Yishni as a dead vampire (Cell: (33, 9), southeast corner where road splits). If the player travels at night they come across the live vampiric Yishni (who they can speak to and asks to be killed). She does not know how she became a vampire (I think that at least one member of the cult of Molag Bal should be a vampire). [Yishni will explain to the player that her parents became vampires and were hunted down by Ordinators and that she detests such creatures. [If she is alive, of course! If not the player can learn this on their own by reading the Molag Bal cult leaders journal.]

TT4:
Prerequisite Quests: TT3
Description: The player needs to escort 2 Pilgrims to the Dadadrome site near Ranyon-Ruhn for a pilgrimage. While on the short journey a man attacks the pilgrims and the player must defend them (this will be rather easy, and if the player fails they do not get a reward but may proceed to the next quest). On the corpse of the man the player finds a sigil/token of Molag Bal (hopefully a special object that will be associated with the cult only). This is ID’d as such by Ratagos in Ranyon-Ruhn. [The two pilgrims and the man need to be created explicitly for this quest]

TT5:
Prerequisite Quests: TT4
Description: The Telvanni have an artifact [a unique amulet, not particularly powerful other than the scripted benefit that protects the player from the Molag Bal cults Command spell in the conflict quest line, artifact is rumored to have been created or once belonged by Vivec himself, currently unnamed] that the Temple would like returned. It is located in the Tower at Gah Sadrith, the player must either purchase it or steal it from Mistress Eldale (the artifact will be in her chambers). If the player is Master or better in the Main land Telvanni they can negotiate directly with Mistress Eldale, otherwise they must first negotiate with an Altmer named Ultern (also in Eldale's chambers). For now the player turns the artifact over to Ratagos in Ranyon-Ruhn. The artifact will prove useful in the conflict thread, and has the power to protect the player against servants of Molag Bal.

TT6:
Prerequisite Quests: TT5
Description: The player is sent to Firewatch to warn the Imperial Cult off interfering in Temple matters at Ranyon-Ruhn (see Imperial Cult quests SS1, SS4, and LH3). This is fairly simple deliver the warning to Marcus Assirius and leave.

TT7:
Prerequisite Quests: TT6
Description: The player needs to cure three cases of common disease around Ranyon-Ruhn. This is an epidemic that the player needs to deal with and infects three commoners in Ranyon-Ruhn. When the player shows up they can cure the disease and the people who are ill will describe their symptoms (which will sound a bit like early stages of vampirism). If the player takes longer than two or three days they will be vampires and attack on site. This is the final straw and launches the player into the Temple conflict thread. The PC is told that they need to travel to Necrom and report that a daedric cult of Molag Bal is operating in the area. Obviously once Map 2 is up and running, we can visit the conflict line written for this (among the many, many things that may involve the Temple in Map 2).
Post Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:40 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

I'd be interested in doing this (as me and Crunch have discussed)

My only thing with the questline is that all the pilgrimages/references to the Tribunal are all a bit Vivec-centric. Perhaps change one or two to Sotha/Alma?

_________________
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a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:59 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

The trouble with changing them is lore. We know so much more about Vivec than Sortha Sil and Almalexia. In theory they should probably be Almalexia centered as she is the most popular of the three. Sortha in my opinion should have very few pilgrimage sites. If you want to change them you need to lay out a specific proposal of what they will be (also you should feel free to change the locations as you like and make sure each pilgrimage requires some "gift" like the Seven Graces on Vv). Ideas from Gez, Nomadic, and Groza (in addition to yours Razz ) would be good to have as they are knowledgeable in Temple affairs.

-Starcrunch
Post Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Well, at the least it would be easy to change "Vivec's artifact" in the last quest into something made by Sotha or Almalexia.

I like the pilgrimages as they are (they're all very nice stories etc.), but if any fitting actions of Almalexia/Sotha could be uncovered (or invented with the use of common sense) that'd be good.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:41 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

If you want to change a pilgrimage back story, TT1b is the best to change. Can you invent something reasonable for Almalexia to have done (that can't be too earth shattering)?

The artifact (that protects against Molag Bal) can be made a creation of Sortha Sil who gave it to Vivec (I think this is fine).

EDIT: One small technical note; no scripts on Ultern or Eldale (they play a pretty important role in a Telvanni plot; neither will die, but they will need scripts placed on them).

-Starcrunch
Post Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:57 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Well, the most simple would be "Here Almalexia slew [insert some generic yet powerful enemy of the Temple]"

Can't really think of much more exciting than that without doing a bit more research.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

Pushing this into pending design. BC, if you think of anything that involves changing the pilgrimage back stories be sure too post it up, otherwise just use the Vivec centered ones (and in map 2 we'll work on trying to get some more Almalexia centered one in). Feel free to change the pilgrimage locations and item requirements if the ones listed don't "work" well. All of these shrines will need to be created (and a nifty long lasting spell that grants a suitable bonus).

Lud, when you see this go ahead and give it to BC so he can get started questing.

-Starcrunch
Post Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:19 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Well, the best thought I've had so far for an Almalexia-related pilgrimage is something relating to this passage from the Arcturian Heresy:

    "Oddly enough, it is Almalexia who disturbs his rest, summoning the Underking to fight alongside the Tribunal against Ada'Soom Dir-Kamal, the Akaviri demon. Wulfharth disappears after Ada'Soom is defeated, and does not return for three hundred years."
Perhaps a shrine at the location where the Underking was summoned, or at the location of the battle? (Either would have to be made up: the book provides no more details, though TIL's timeline places the battle at Red Mountain, though I see no evidence for this placement)

Is there a "just Almalexia" shrine model? All of the shrines (for the Pilgrim's Path) on Vvardenfell are just Vehk, and then there's the whole Tribunal shrine, but no "just Ayem" or "just Seht" shrines AFAIK. Would those be too much trouble to make?

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:34 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I'll give it to BC
Post Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:18 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



You can make up anything you want that the Chim-Alma did as long as it fits.
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Post Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:09 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

I'll get started on this ASAP.

Any word on the possibility of a new shrine model (if it doesn't already exist), one with just Almalexia on, and one with just Sotha on?

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:36 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



btw, Meridia, lost child of Magnus the Sun, landed in Map 1 once upon a time, and Molag Bal, corner of the House of Trouble, proceeded to ravage her profusely, until Ayem, face-snaked queen and mother of the Veloth, moved herself into Meridia's self and did battle with the invaders. This was recorded by Sul Daryloth, scribe in the court of the Alma Rula Indoril Gindir-Eyel (2E 504-511).
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Post Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

With the pilgrimages, what kind of system is being applied. I really need to understand this before I handle dialogue filters.

Firstly, I am going to be putting all the pilgrimage missions under the topic "pilgrimages" to which they will be redirected from the normal quest topic "duties" until they have completed enough pilgrimages.

Secondly, I need to have some way of determining whether Map 2 is being used, so that people using solely Map 1 can still do all the availiable Temple quests. (i.e I'll lower the 'pilgrimages done' requirement for those without Map 2 to only 3, rather than the 6 for those with Map 2).

The easiest way to facilitate this that I can think of is to create a set of global variables that would be added to TR_Data, one for each map. There would be a small script that would run on start-up of the map that would set that map's variable to 1, so all maps could tell whether their siblings were active.

Either way, that's probably up to someone else, but it's something that needs to be determined (soon-ish preferably, as I'll need it to release this questline. I'm still a while off, but I'll need it soon).

Finally, I need confirmation that this "six-per-pair-of-maps" pilgrimages thing is to be the final solution to the pilgrimages system. The alternative Groza (I believe) suggested was a system where 'x' pilgrimages must be completed (on all maps, still with different pilgrimages for each map/pair) before any proper quests can be begun, and then at certain advancement points (i.e every third rank or something), it would be necessary to complete 'x' more,EDIT: though the player could have already done these, as the 'pilgrimages' option would always be availiable from all quest-givers until all pilgrimages were done.

Do we have confirmation as to which is preferred?


EDIT: Also, I still need word on shrines for just Almalexia and Sotha. (If they exist, and if not, some may need to be created)

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

Just deal with the three for this map. Map 2 will be merged with Map 1 when it is ready; and it will be impossible to have Map 1 without Map 2 when Map 2 is ready. For now leave the count to do quests at 3 pilgrimages; it will be increased when the quests are made on Map 2.

EDIT: It is extremely unlikely that new models will be made; though these would really only need to be retextures.

-Starcrunch
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

That's good to know. One worry off my mind, at least!

As for the pilgrimage system, what do you think of the seperate topic? Also, which system is to be the final one?

Also, is there no hope of those shrines? It's not a big deal, but it'd be nice.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:
That's good to know. One worry off my mind, at least!

As for the pilgrimage system, what do you think of the seperate topic? Also, which system is to be the final one?

Also, is there no hope of those shrines? It's not a big deal, but it'd be nice.


Hmm... I think it should be a bit like Vv "Pilgrimage to the Seven Graces," where all 3 (and eventually 6) are launched from any Temple quest giver* on M1 and M2 and to all the shrines. If you think you are up to it write a book like the Pilgrim's Path (I really think that would be a good idea) that describes each pilgrimage site. Again for now only worry about the first 3; the text can be added onto for the later 3 (if you don't feel like writing the book that's ok, you can run it from dialog but it may be a lot of dialog!). The shrines should certainly register if the PC prays at them before the quest, so if they've accidentally prayed at all before getting the quest it should be completed immediately (this is also like the Seven Graces on Vv).

EDIT: If you don't write a book you should put the pilgrimages under 1 topic that runs the quest, but have separate topics that allow the PC to ask about each shrine. Also a separate Journal Topic should be used for each pilgrimage (1 title and 1 entry that says, "I have made the pilgrimage to Blah," or the like). An overarching journal topic should cover the pilgrimages as a whole, with initiation when the PC joins and completion when they talk to a Temple Rep. after completing all three pilgrimages (you can filter for the other topics). I think this is how the Seven Graces is set up; you should probably mimic that structure closely.

*M1 has only 1 temple quest giver, but Map 2 will have more that this; you can filter the dialog for TR_Map<3; and Temple members of quest giver rank or it can be written individually for each quest giver.

EDIT: somehow I replaced a Map 2 with a Map3; fixed

-Starcrunch


Last edited by Starcrunch on Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:31 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Fine, I think I've got this. My only question now is to how I apply the filters. Do I check to see if they've completed all the Map1/2 pilgrimages (the Crunch method) or if they've completed 'x' pilgrimages (the Groza method)?

In both cases, am I allowed to create a global for pilgrimage completion? (Either a Map1/2 pilgrimages global for the Crunch method, or a general 'pilgrimages' global for the Groza method?

Thanks for putting up with these questions, Crunch, I'm sure I can be a bit irritating at times. Razz

EDIT: Looking at Ratagos, I've noticed he's only Curate rank. All the Vvardenfell quest givers were Masters, and if I'm to filter these pilgrimage quests so that anyone above Curates give them, that means that Ordinators would be able to give them.

I suppose I should make Ratagos a Master, yes? Just checking I have permission for this.

EDIT 2: I am intending to change pilgrimage 3 to an act of Almalexia, the defeat and subsequent summoning of the Underking that I spoke of. Is this acceptable?

The shrine's basic description is: MessageBox "Here it was that the Underking was defeated in battle by the Tribunal, and subsequently reawakened by Lady Almalexia to help defeat the Akaviri demon Ada'Soom Dir-Kamal at Red Mountain."

The blessing message is to be: MessageBox "The Shrine of Foresight: Through her foresight, Almalexia knew to be merciful to the Underking, who would prove useful in the future. In our own lives we should not act in haste against our enemies, but instead judge what use a humbled foe might have."

The donation is two portions of Gravedust. This could be changed back to two Intelligence potions, but that would be a lot of scripting.

I would be happy to accept any improvements/lore errors spotted regarding this new pilgrimage. Many thanks.

EDIT: Finally, I'll need someone to provide the coded versions of the letters for Quest TT2. I don't know the code, nor do I know any easy source to find out how to encrypt something with it.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

Lud, overrule me if I got this wrong, but here is what I think we should do:
1.) Make Ratagos a Master. (if another Master exists in RR use him as the quest giver instead of Ratagos; when the quests were designed Ratagos was the only Temple member in RR).
2.) Yes that is acceptable, as is Sload's idea if you like that one, but I'd only do one or the other. As for the shrine, you could experiment with the triolith pieces to see if you can get something unique without a new mesh.
3.) Write the letter in plain English (all lowercase;even first letters and proper nouns; it will ease my coding, as the final will be all capitalized.) and PM it to me or post it here and I'll code it for you and send it back to you to put in game.

-Starcrunch
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:10 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Here is the message:

    to the esteemed council of bugs. it has come to the attention of the temple that a cult of molag bal has sprung up in the telvanni isles, something we would see quashed as soon as is possible. due to our regrettably limited presence here, we would appreciate to know whether you would be willing to aid us in the eradication of these cultists.

    please send your response with my messenger

    ratagos, temple master at ranyon-ruhn

Again, feel free to correct errors/general problems with this.


I've PMed Lud regarding the various questions I have in this questline, so hopefully he should turn up soon to clear things up.

Thanks for the help, Crunch. Smile

EDIT: I've tried a bit of funkiness with trioliths but can't come up with anything that brilliant. My best shot is carefully resizing and rotating a Tribunal triolith so that the Almalexia face aligns perfectly with the Vivec face of a normal shrine. This leaves about 1/4er of the Vivec image showing at the top, that an astute viewer could recognise as Vehk's flaming hair, and a couple of bits of the small triolith poking out of the side of the big one. It's not optimal, and I'd personally prefer to just leave a Tribunal triolith rotated to have Ayem facing forwards in order to not look cheesy, unless someone can come up with something more cunning.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"


Last edited by Bloodthirsty Crustacean on Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

At the time of TT2 the Temple does not yet know about the cult. They think it might be the Telvanni who are dealing with Molag Bal or his servants (it isn't but this is cloaked). Also the PC should not be told what the message says and no allusion to Molag Bal should be made yet (it's really only in the last quest the PC gets a better idea of what is really going on).

-Starcrunch
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:30 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Okay. How do they know that Molag Bal is up to something? Can they 'feel a disturbance in the Force', o que? (Don't know why I lapsed into Spanish, but it sounds less rude to me, and I don't intend to be rude)

Perhaps you should write something if it's unclear, as you're the guy who came up with the storyline.

The only thing I'd like to keep is Ratagos' dislike of the Telvanni's mistreatment of the Temple hidden behind over the top politeness. "esteemed council of bugs" "our regrettably limited presense" etc.

And I didn't want the PC to know, I just wanted the Telvanni to know that his response should be sent back via the messenger (the PC)

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

The PC doesn't know what's up, Ratagos doesn't have the details right yet, but he's been on the job for a bit now and has seen some things that point to MB (daedroth sightings in particular). He thinks the Telvanni are responsible, he just got it wrong. The PC of course has nothing to do with obtaing this info. so they don't know what is going on which is how it is supposed to be.

-Starcrunch
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:46 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Okay, here's the revised version:

    to the esteemed council of bugs. it has come to the attention of the temple that a recent spate of acts by the minions of molag bal have ocurred in the telvanni isles, something we would see quashed as soon as is possible. though i would hesitate to accuse your councillors of any misdeed, i must consider the possibility that you have been consorting with molag bal in your recent experiments, or other highly important matters of study.

    i would hesitate to demand an answer from you, but i do believe it wise, for the sake of peace in your region, that you speak truthfully in this matter

    please, do not mention any of this to my messenger. it is vital that my investigations be kept as secret as possible

    ratagos, temple master at ranyon-ruhn


Feel free to remove that italicised bit, which I'm not sure about. Just wanted to give a reason why the player is not to know.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

Seems good, except Telvanni Isles needs to be changed to Telvannis District (maybe a bit too Imperial) or Boethiah Mountains (might be mispelled but, I'll get it right before coding it up). I'll code this up for you tonight and will post it by tomorrow.

-Starcrunch
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:57 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Yep, make that change. I didn't think Telvanni Isles sounded right. Go for Telvannis District.

EDIT: Lud, (or anyone else in the mood to help) all my various questions are in the posts above this recent dialogue re. the coded message.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Sorry for the double post, but I would like as much input as possible on this issue. I have now got in my head firmly what the two options we have for a pilgrimage system are. I know I'm slightly obsessed with this, but this is one of those things that could well become a new 'gameplay mechanic' as it were (like Vvardenfell->Mainland rank relations etc.), and I don't want to make this descision with only my and Starcrunch's opinions heard.

The two options (as I see it) are these:

    Option 1:

    Every two maps has a set of six pilgrimages.
    Each Temple quest-giver on those maps will make the player do those six before any quests are given.
    Every time the player moves between a pair of maps, he must do another set of six pilgrimages to get Temple quests.
    Once the player completes a pilgrimage for the first time, that map's "pilgrimages done" global is incremented by 1.
    Once that global reaches six, the quest is completed and normal quests may begin with that pair of maps quest-givers.

    Option 2:

    Every two maps has a set of six pilgrimages.
    All Temple quest-givers will tell the player they must complete six pilgrimages before quests can begin.
    These pilgrimages will be accessed from the seperate topic "pilgrimages" where the player is told the pilgrimages that that quest giver can offer. (Which depends on which map pair the quest-giver is on)
    Each time the player completes a pilgrimage for the first time, the pan-Map global "pilgrimages done" is incremented by 1.
    Once the global reaches six pilgrimages (of any map, in any order) the overarching "Initiation Pilgrimages" quest is completed, and all normal quests can be started with any Temple quest-giver.
    During the normal questline, the player can at any point choose to ask about "pilgrimages" again, and complete more.
    At certain points, say every three ranks, the player will be required to have completed 'x' more pilgrimages. Whether they then do them upon prompting, or whether they have already done 'x' more, it does not matter. They will be advanced.


Personally, my preference is for Option 2, as it allows (IMO) more replayability value, puts less tedious pilgrimages on the player all at once, and adds a (again IMO) interesting little feature to advancement in the Temple.

However, it is important, I feel, to ensure that everyone who cares has a say, and then whichever system is the most popular shall be the one I implement in my questline.

Please, if you care, contribute. Thanks.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lud
Developer Emeritus
27 Aug 2004

Location: Ireland

Hmm, pilgrimmages are something that we have to be careful with, because while we don't want to move too far from the style of vanilla MW, we need to remember that Vvardenfell was largely dedicated to Vivec.

What I would like to see is a series of pilgrimmages devoted to each of the other members of the Tribunal; "The Ten Mercies of Almalexia", "The Five Wisdoms of Sotha Sil", etc. However, I don't think that the completion of such a pilgrimmage should be a prerequisite for doing other Temple quests. I would also like to see some more pilgrimmages that aren't specific to any one god. So here's what I suggest:

The player has to complete 6 basic pilgrimmages in order to be allowed to do any real Temple quests. These can be on any map, in any order and are controlled using a new global. As per your 2), some ranks would require you to complete more than six pilgrimmages.
Some Temples would be more devoted to a particular member of the Tribunal. (I'm thinking about pretty much all of Indoril territory being like this for Ayem) These would require that you complete the pilgrimmage for a particular member of the Tribunal first. (We could even have a temple of two relying on Vivec's pilgrimmages too) Each of these special pilgrimmages could count towards your pilgrimmage total. (Perhaps even the Vvar ones too)

_________________
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

I'm fine with this (what Lud wrote); I object to any plan that allows you to become Patriarch (or any high Temple rank) and only have done 6 pilgrimages.

I'm going to make a post in the Lore forums about assempling a set of deeds for the other members of the Tribunal that can be used for pilgrimage sites.

Also if we are going to dedicate a large portion of the Map to Almalexia, a retexture of the shrine would be handy.

-Starcrunch
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

@ Starcrunch, as I said, pilgrimages would be a seperate 'quest type' á la "special contracts" or whatever it was the Morag Tong had. (The anti-DB and Threads of the Webspinner stuff)

At certain advancement stages (either specific ranks, or every three, whatever) the player will need to do 'x' more.

For now, dealing with only my Map 1 Temple questline, I'm going to filter dialogue so that the player must have completed any 6 pilgrimages (until map 2 is merged, this will be limited to 3 however, because only 3 will be availiable) to begin questing. This will require creation of a global that I'm going to call "TR_Pilgrimages" for simplicities sake.

Because I need not deal with advancement dialogue yet, the bit where pilgrimages are needed at certain ranks (like how in the Mages guild you must pay/get a staff at certain ranks etc.) will be up to whoever gets that job.

As for "just one Triune" dedicated Temples, that's a good idea, as is "Mercies of Ayem", "Wisdoms of Seht". Again however, that will be up to whoever gets the job of questing whichever Temples that are decided to be dedicated. (As Ranyon-ruhn is a relatively minor location in the middle of Telvanni territory, it's unlikely to recieve any special treatment)

My only question is that at the very least, my current "Almalexia based" pilgrimage seems to be a good one for an 'Almalexia only pilgrimage set'. Is it okay to keep it in Map 1, and should it be offered as one of the 'generic' pilgrimages (if it goes in an Ayem only set)?

Anyway, thanks for your input guys. Now that Lud's had his say, I am certainly far more relaxed (didn't want to do anything drastic without permission of the Head of Quests Smile ).

EDIT: Oh, and @Crunch again, would it be worth starting up a thread in the Official ES Lore Forums to gather pilgrimage ideas, or should we keep it just within TR?

EDIT2: On a totally seperate note, I intend to include the "make amends" dialogue. This requires the creation of a global that is set to 1 when the PC is kicked out twice, to ensure they are not given another chance. Do I have permission to create this global? (I know there are strict rules regarding globals, so I just wanted to check)

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

As long as we remember to implement the "need to do X more" I'm perfectly happy with it Razz . Your Almalexia one works fine for Map 1 (and it can be included in a set). A global should definitely be used here; we have to have an easy handle for this and still be able to find it and use it across several maps in quests made by, perhaps, more than one person. Make amends seems fine. No thread on ES Forums in my opinion, unless Lud starts it (TR has a long history of fucking up when it comes to dealing with the ES forums; Lud has been pretty good at promoting TR with a wider audience without stating flame wars).

-Starcrunch
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:46 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lud
Developer Emeritus
27 Aug 2004

Location: Ireland

Yeah, please create a global for getting kicked.
Standardised naming convention for such: TR_Temple_kick
We'll need such globals and dialogue for all the factions eventually, so it'd be best if they were all standardised; TR_MG_kick, TR_FG_kick, etc.

_________________
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

That all sounds good. Before I can finally get started properly I have one (hopefully last Razz) question.

For the "pan-Map" questline for pilgrimages. What should I name it?

This is the quest that tells the player they need to do six pilgrimages before they can begin proper quests.

The pan-Map global (pilgrimage counter) is currently called TR_Pilgrimages. If this needs to be changed, please tell me ASAP, as I am already beginning to use this in scripts and dialogue.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

EDITED: removed message now that BC has it. That dragging out seems to happen when I use IE but not Firefox, not really sure why it does that. It could also be a screen resolution issue. Oh well it doesn't matter.

-Starcrunch


Last edited by Starcrunch on Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:06 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Okay, that's now in-game. If possible, could you edit that code out of your post, because it's dragging my screen wider than I'd like, so I'm forced to constantly move the page back and forth as I try to read quest descriptions.

Thanks.

Also, any thoughts on the pan-Map quest name?

I was going to call it TR_TT_1, but by not having a "_mx" thing, it gets submerged in a bunch of Tribunal quests, making it hard to find for anyone else who might want to use it (i.e any future Temple questers)

Is this a problem, or should I just go with it?

Again, sorry for all the questions. Razz

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:32 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

I'd call it TR_TT_Q1, but really only Lud can answer this question (and it would hardly be the world's end if you use what you've got Razz ).

Previous post edited, and don't worry about the questions.

-Starcrunch
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Okay, things can really get started on this questline now.

Thanks Crunch and Lud for all your help.

BC, signing off for tonight.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:59 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

I have made a change to the NPC TR_m1_Vero_Renim by adding the "NoLore" variety of the TR_NPC script to him. I did this because I have given him a bunch of unique dialogue, and wanted to keep him in character as much as possible.

However, he is one of those NPCs who has no AI package. I have given him a new Wander AI of 0 distance, seeing as my changes will probably be the ones overwriting those made by any fix that you have probably already made.

Is that okay, or should I undo these changes?

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:22 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Starcrunch
Developer Emeritus
17 Aug 2004

Location: DC, USA

You can of course do this. Any NPC that is in your submitted ESP should have a proper AI (both new and changed NPC's).

-Starcrunch
Post Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:30 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

With TT3 I am simplifying things by making it so that Yishni is always dead (it seems a bit weird that if you turned up at night she hadn't already died from earlier in the day (where if you had found her she'd have been dead)). Is there anything I should have on her corpse explaining anything, or would it be fine just to know vampirism is on the loose?

Also, how do I make her a vampire, with the different face etc.?

For upcoming TT4, what should the sigil of Molag Bal be?

And finally, for TT5 is it okay if I impose a "you must be curate rank here" restriction on the quest? Because I think Ratagos would realise that things are getting serious, and would want to keep the PC safe.

_________________
a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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