I have played a part in the concept art team here at TR for about a year and 2 months, minus a month or so due to my recent absence.
Now I haven't done much recently as I said, but in the extremely short amount of time I have been gone, modelling for Rihad has begun. I am really reluctant to post my concern about it, but I feel I should. I think there are two factors involved. New modellers without any knowledge of the TES world and minimal knowledge of the lore. And concept artists without much knowledge of lore (I am one of them).
And for both cases it's not really their fault, they have been told to go along with this Arabic style. Now despite me just saying I have little knowledge of lore, I know this much; Redguard culture as a whole aren't generically Arabic, they are a culture to themselves, in fact split up into 2 cultures, the more Imperialised Raga and Yoku. Where am I going with this? There is no real way of rectifying it. Wrong. I really think we need to ditch this classifying Hammerfall as a stereotypical Arabic province, populated by Redguards.
From the showcase people need it drilled into their heads, that it is certainly very Arabic inspired but it is predominantly alien. So that concept artists when drawing think... "Rather than just make this pillar normal, I will explore pentagonal embellished pillars". After all isn't it the job of a concept artist to conceptualise the land to make it interesting!? Modellers too.
And the other problem is consistency of these designs. To make towns truly unite within themselves, these imaginative designs need to stay the same. I am guilty of this. I recently gave Fairwater a design for a market stall, which really didn't fit Rihad at all (or how Rihad is developing).
I think we should have threads for each city in the CA section, to help develop and keep a certain style. And to develop the style of the city as one. Then it can all be collected and made into one style, or used on other towns. So it's actually simple to rectify despite my long and rambling post. This is obviosuly an idea, and why I've posted it, for you to comment on, not to put it into action as this is a democracy . So you all actually ahve the right to say "piss off" too.
Now how many cookies do I need to give one to each of you who read all of that?
"Only perfection is acceptable. I expect something beyond the acceptable." - Sload
"Orix bows down to £'s leet spelling skills" - Oriks
I agree with your point, but Rihad at least looks fine as it is. IIRC it has some similarities to Anvil, and the design fits really well with the Forebears. But as soon as we get to the Crown and maybe even Lhutonic areas, I agree that we'll need an artist who can fill the building designs with their own history and style.
I support the idea of making individual threads for each major city. I know a lot of people already have ideas for what specific citys look like- but these need to be discussed and made official.
NEW MEMBERS: I'm not with TR anymore, so please stop PMing me. Just post your sample work in the showcase.
[url=http://www.realmsofrenth.com][img]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3020/banner3er0.jpg[/img][/url]
Whoa, hold on! Well said Pound, but what the heck are the rest of you mumbling? "We should have implemented this long ago?" "A lot of people have ideas for what specific cities look like?"
Where are those ideas? Who ever thought of implementing this idea before? What the f*** is Raga? I'll answer to all three; Nowhere, nobody, nothing. Explaining:
From the very first moment I took up architecture, this is what I was told; "Look, we're making Rihad, which is close to Anvil and according to Oblivion's lore these towns should be similar."
Based on what I'd seen from HF (the comic and some Daggerfall screenies) I begun making the first set, which I later threw away and made what we have now. So far so good.
For about a year, maybe more, nobody went specific on Raga. Almost every CA, myself included, used to believe it's a mix of middle eastern and north african elements, and we were right to believe so since no one told us otherwise. Not even when you saw that pile-of-crap old set did you bring this up.
Later, when Lutemoth was super-active, you begun praising the excellent mix of Raga and Yoku elements in his work. Again, nobody gave a clear definition of Raga. Or Yoku. Not even Sload. Just vague chatter on multi-cultural influences and flames on my ass because I think on real world terms. Did someone else think elseway to give me an example? Most important, is there room to think in another way, given what we know about HF? Hell no. There is no room.
Recently, the finals of Rihad (and the whole GM if it still stands) begun getting modelled. Again, no clear definition of either 'culture'.
More recently, Elfane posts his vision of the GM LCs. Arabic through and through. Everybody likes, me draws, Advary models. Again, no clear definition of either 'culture'.
And suddenly I see all of you saying we should have planned ahead. Plan ahead for something that nobody can even define, for something more vague and subjective than the meaning of life itself.
I'll spear you the moaning and conclude; Raga is Middle Eastern + North African, and Yoku's Japanese + Chinese. I haven't seen a single thing that indicates the opposite. I'm 99.999% sure that I won't see something like that. You want a CA who'll combine two non-existing cultures? As long as you manage to find what these cultures are like in the first place, be my guests.
I thought it was explained before, at least by Sload, more than once. This is how I see it: Raga = Yoku. They have elements of Chinese, Japanese, Arabic and African culture, but just elements, which don't creat Raga/Yoku. The main part of Raga/Yoku hasn't been created yet (for architecture, at least, and only to some extent). This part is all Redguard stuff, completely original and little to do with the real world, like Lutemoth's art. It's up to the CAs to mix these components. Elfane's art and your Rihad are good, because there are Asian, African and Arabic influences in Yoku. But generally, these shouldn't be predominant.
Gnomey, how do you mix a mosque and a pagoda? Honestly and objectively, the result will be disgusting. I'm not trying to be stubborn (I already am), but it's just ridiculous to me. Asian influences in Rihad? Where?
I was talking more about Elfane's art. And I'm not saying that you take a chinese building, then take and Asian building, and then squish them together. You might take an asian dome, the japanese style of roofing with Asian tiles, and then the rest is up to your imagination. (Just a random example, I have no idea how that would turn out). And what I was trying to say is that Chineses and Arabic are not what make Raga. They are only a small part, influences, if you will, barely affecting the overall Redguard style.
That's my point, what's the "overall Redguard style"? Alright, it's influenced by x,y,z cultures, got that. But the style itself, what is it? When I say nobody can give a precise definition, I mean it. And if someone attempts to, his opinion will prove to be subjective as others will rush to 'correct' his words, each one having something different to say.
And honestly, I enjoyed drawing Rihad/Goldmoor/whatever, but I'll not try making anything that must be Raga, or Yoku, or Yokohama. Nobody understands these words, and they hardly mean anything else than a "vague lore thing that not even Beth can practically support". Until/if it's deciphered, Rihad will be my first and last set. I'm not leaving, I just don't want to be the guy-who-created-something-ugly-because-lore-says-so.
Gnomey wrote:And I'm not saying that you take a chinese building, then take and Asian building, and then squish them together. You might take an asian dome, the japanese style of roofing with Asian tiles, and then the rest is up to your imagination. (Just a random example, I have no idea how that would turn out).
That building would be pretty ugly. No offense.
I find myself kind of agreeing with Scummy here. Nobody has a clear idea of what Redguard truly is because BS hasn't defined what Redguard truly is and we are left to fill in the rather large blanks. While it would be nice to meticulously plan ahead as far as Pound wants, it is kind of difficult and it probably won't work.
<insert witty signature here. i might spend time trying to come up with something, but its not like anybody reads these anyway>
I thought I did say what Raga is. It is all the interesting and new things that CA modders and other people come up with, which do not know any connections to Real Life. Lutemoth's Ceramic Armour is Raga, the Dune Dwellers are Raga, Pound's wicker ship and old fort enterance are both Raga, so are the Yoku gods themselves are naturally all Raga. I challenge you to find any large influence from RL in any of those. (Well, maybe the gods, but the art for them is new )
And yes, now that I think about it, that would be ugly. Bad example.
What's the difference between dune dwellers and real nomads? What's so otherworldly about porcelain? And how will you make ceramic armor, when TES ceramics are true to real life? The way you describe things gives me the impression that anything and everything under the sun is Raga. What's lore-correct about it? TR follows lore, and I like that too, and let's create lore if we must, but not from thin air. You may be right Gnomey, I'm not denying this possibility, but there's nothing solid about all this. I find it pointless to keep arguing since my questions are essentialy unanswered. If something more solid comes up (like rock solid), I'll try adapting my perspective, but atm that seems unlikely. But hey, no harm done, it's just one CA less.
Who am I to stop arguing when it's pointless? Just kidding, but I would like to write one more thing, not that it will help. This is mainly because you asked to know the difference between Dune Dwellers and RL nomads. The answer is simple:
Dune dwellers have different blades, armour, a different language, live in an imaginary world, may have worked with lizard pack animals and stranger things, and look different in general. Their houses have, as far as I know, not been created, but when they are they'll look different. Their whole culture is essentially different, except that they're nomadic, like some of our cultures.
As for porcelain, it is a RL material, but it has never been used for armour. Actually, some people said that it would be completely useless for protection, but it's still being used. The thing is, that though Porcelain is there in real life, we've changed it to suit us, and as there's nothing against it with lore, why not use it? There's as much sense in that as filling every lore hole with RL designs.
Nothing is solid about the Raga culture except that it is not any real world culture. CAs like Lutemoth, Pound and you yourself are solidifying it, that's part of making the concept art. Anyway, I'll stop trying now. And don't stop with your drawing, there's nothing wrong with your concepts, they fit well with whatever it is they should fit with. (Great help that was).
I only know two things for sure;
1) You are a very persistant person with lots of patience. I appreciate this.
2) TR has some of the best fu**in' CAs of the community, and we're losing time trying to figure what's Raga. Raga's not a cult, it's Lenore's ex-vamp friend, Ragamuffin (for those who are familiar with Roman Dirge's madness).
End of story, I'll do my best to finish Goldmoor (hint:UC teaser pic in the respective GM forum thread), and then I'll play it by the ear. Hell, tell Lute to draw some buildings according to his style, and if he manages to bend my will, I may expand them into a full set.
raga is NOT japanese+chinise+african+aribian+LSD. raga is redguard. defining redguard as specific cultres is what leads to lame concepts and misconceptions. FUCK REAL LIFE CULTURES! yes, redguard buildings have "Islamic" influences. but we have to look at it another way. redguard buildings are characterized by a use of domes, smooth arches, and adobe/stucco. that is saying essentially the same thing, but it is taking away the real life element, and allowing people to look at it a whole other way.
now, what is raga? i think it can safely be said that [url=http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/4820/serpentine6jy.jpg]this[/url] is a pretty good example of raga. you will be hard pressed to call it Asia or Islamic or anything else, because it is a blend of cultures and elements so diverse that it is not immediately recognized. upon closer inspection you will undoubtedly find medieval elements, Japanese elements, sub-Saharan elements, and hell, even Indian. but does it look it? no. it looks unique -- it looks redguard.
that bieng said, raga does have a characteristic look. it is not a natural style -- animals, people, and even parts of armor, buildings, etc. are stylized. spirals and coils are common, as is the wave motive (obviously important to the redguards). the raga style is all about showing off, it is often intricately layered and detailed. beads, trims, and embroidery are all used to show off just how uber one is. in the end, this is exactly what raga encompasses: hard core uberness.
not all of hammerfell is utterly raga however. each region has its own style based on its location and history (among other factors). the explanation above is based on lute's and pounds drawings, which we all agree are utterly hard-core-uber, as well as on my personal believes.
LET CREATIVITY REIGN!
In hoc signo vinces
"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
-PoHa!
Sigh... ok, I get the point. We throw every freaking cult we know of in the blender, and the squashed muck that'll come out of it will be Raga. Fine. I think I can do Raga (no, I don't speak sarcastically). But I'm afraid that Rihad is too much RL. Moving into the next region and suddenly getting spirals and snakes and this whole Raga thing makes for a very weird transition.
Tell you what; make the threads you have all agreed to make and discuss the stuff I mention here along with every other matter. Unless Lute gets into architecture, I'd like to have a basic layout of the overall feeling (and some suggestions too)by the time I'm done with GM.
And... omg, the sweet bug-eyed squirrel said the 'F' word!
youre surprised at the F word from me? wow, have you been living under a rock
i think rihad/taneth is perfect. it fits with lore and still looks great. thats the main reason i put in paragraph 4, not all of hammerfell is compleatly raga. it is a mix of cultures. if we do the helkori next it will be more raga due to its crown alighnment, but it wont PWN the eyes becuase it will be disolved with other, more common elements. personaly, i think the most hard-core raga architecture we should see is in the ancient ruins and stuff, since more modern arch has other influces. imho raga also shows equipment and the like more the archticture.
im realy tempted to write up a guide to CA, i think it would be helpfull. if we can all kinda pitch in it could be perfect.
In hoc signo vinces
"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
-PoHa!
I'm getting it and feel a wild temptation to begin experimenting. The only two problems will be to avoid making GM look conservative, and to avoid giving the feel of Mayan cults, with all the snakes and spirals around.
But it's 3 in the morning here and my eyes are shutting by default. When I'm recharged, I'll work on all new stuff (maybe even lift my rock to see other people's rocks.
But hey, a swearing squirrel is fun!
one reason i feel is that goldmoor is fine as it is is that its the first region one sees when entering. it dosent have to be over the top, pushing the player into a mass blog of the "alien" redguard elements would confuse the player and create an unrealistic, difunctional envioument (not to mention go agains lore). it is looking quite redguard so far (ive seen it personaly and it is great), but it is just enough like cyrodiil to not confuse the player. i think we all agree that morrowind's atmosphere is better then oblivions, but notice that when zou first step off the sip it looks like a backwater european village. it then gradualy feeds you the morrowind atmosphere that makes it so unique. same with goldmoor, it eases you into hammerfell while still bieng interesting.
as to steping out from under your rock, by all means. just sit down and let creativity take you to wonderfull places i realy look forward to seeing what you come up with
In hoc signo vinces
"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
-PoHa!
El Scumbago wrote:I'm getting it and feel a wild temptation to begin experimenting. The only two problems will be to avoid making GM look conservative, and to avoid giving the feel of Mayan cults, with all the snakes and spirals around.
But it's 3 in the morning here and my eyes are shutting by default. When I'm recharged, I'll work on all new stuff (maybe even lift my rock to see other people's rocks.
But hey, a swearing squirrel is fun!
Love the sound of that Scummy. And I am glad you've overcome your earlier offence to the suggestion of it being a completely undefinable culture.
The thing is, is that we shouldn't fit within the boundaries. being concept artists we need to imagine all this stuff up. And the full PGE which is unfortunately quite rare to find gives us great examples. And if you had read that Scumbago, then you wouldn't find it hard to understand the culture.
Also the link you posted N, to Lutes armour, I don't think it portrays Raga very well, It's quite an early one of Lutes, and he's still adapting and partly developing the style there. But the thing I majorly agree with you N, is ditch the real life comparisons. we need to find words for the real life features, and know them regardless of the RL cultures, or even better, design our own features.
So Scumbago, it's be cool if you did some REALLY quick and flowing sketches of investigating this culture. You really don't have to change too much from your current concepts.
P.S LN, do you know where Lute has gone?
"Only perfection is acceptable. I expect something beyond the acceptable." - Sload
"Orix bows down to £'s leet spelling skills" - Oriks
eh, he drops by time-to-time, but i havent been able to get him to do any of his CA mod duties for a while now. he also told me that he is low on insparation. i gues its real life stuff.
In hoc signo vinces
"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
-PoHa!
RL has become a bitch here too, but I'd like to work with Lute on this one. And I owe you all an apology, I was too offensive.
Macar, Raga is undefined, I'm not taking that back, but I'm willing to define it so well that even Beth will copy TR's work. That said, I sat down, wrote some shit and draw some stuff as well. I thought of making another thread for these, as Pound suggested, but I'm not sure. I you think we should start a separate thread for specific discussion on this, just move my post. More sketches will follow.
Report on Raga cult's practical matters. University of Scumford, CA dpt.
After my argument on Raga cult and the enlightening conversation with Gnomey and Lady N, I tried to understand their point of view and I think I got it. So here's my (new) view, thoughts and suggestions about it. The pic at the end of this post doesn't sum them up, so I think it's good to read what I have to say and speak your minds as well.
1)The alien character of Hammerfell.
Initially, I was heartily against it and felt Hammerfell should only be influenced by the many eastern styles, and specifically those ranging from the Mediterranean to Pakistan. All the pictures I had seen supported this, along with the fact that all four human provinces are almost identical to the respective RL ones.
However, this is just an impression that most people have, since we haven't actually seen Skyrim or Hammerfell's mainland. We haven't even seen High Rock, save for Daggerfall and the surrounding areas (as I've come to understand, Daggerfall -the game- included the city, not the province).
Given these and the feeling of lame-ness that Oblivion gave us, it's safe to assume that Hammerfell can and should be alien. After all, that's what lore says. Raga cult is influenced by many RL styles, but they're not the major part of it, they're mostly influences. Just as Morrowind's Hlaalu where heavily influenced by poor middle-eastern buildings. They're a small dose of reality to use as a solid base for the creation of everything else.
2)The sequence of creation.
After I realized that creating a visually nice alien Hammerfell is possible (after all it's a fantasy game), my next thoughts focused on the order in which we should act (in terms of planning and designing architecture).
How should we combine the available RL styles and how much fantasy can we add to the result of the mix? The answer came from the previous paragraph. RL styles are a small dose of reality to use as a solid base for the creation of everything else. In this case, the base can be a typical eastern house, like the MCs, or even better the LCs of Rihad. We know we'll use eastern influences a lot, so we'll use archs. We'll use domes. We'll use pillars. We'll use fanciness. As Lady N said, Raga buildings are representative of their owners' uber-ness. Now, uber-ness demands that we spice things up a bit. So we'll use more shapes than the usual block-like ones of the Islamic tradition. We'll use known elements of Raga tradition such as birds, spirals, waves. Redguards also seem intrigued by stars and stuff, so moon and sun symbols (such as a plain circle standing out of a wall) can prove to be both stylish and lore-wise. And as we get deeper into the province, things are getting all the more hardcore, from the simple tribal decoration on the base frame of Rihad's MCs, to the engraved snakes of Satakaal.
3)Regional transition.
And here's a question that may occurred to you after reading the end of the previous paragraph; "How will the player feel when he sees an earthly place like Goldmoor and then find himself in an alien environment?"
Lady N correctly pointed out that Seyda Neen was a very earthly place, meant to easily introduce the player to the alien environment of Morrowind. Goldmoor, and Rihad in particular, is Seyda Neen's equal for Hammerfell. The buildings do look influenced by the Imperial culture (or vice versa, it's not really clear), but most important is that they're easy on the eyes and necessarily similar to the rest of Hammerfell. Once the player gets familiar with GM, he will be partially familiar with the whole province, since Arabian-like buildings will be a base 'material' for all the sets. Thus, the next region will be a little more 'alien', the one after that will be twice or thrice as much and so on...
I'd like to make a note here; In Morrowind, the strangest territory was that of the Telvanni (Azura's Coast & Zafirbel bay IIRC). That territory was far from the starting point of the player and almost isolated from the more conventional areas of Vvardenfell. In other words, the Telvanni territory was 'deep' Morrowind, so the devs wanted the players to have the chance to familiarize themselves with the whole place before being sent/able to go there. That's what we should do as well IMO, save the most distant locations for the strangest/most Raga-fied styles. Hope lore doesn't tie our hands concerning the choice of location for each set. I'd hate having the region north of GM as 'lvl 3 alien' and the region to the east as 'lvl 8 alien'. I also hope my syntax isn't too weird!
4)The Raga-ness scale.
This is about how much 'Raga' a building or place should be. Explaining; Lady N suggested that the most hardcore Raga designs should be found in ancient ruins and tombs (if there will be any underground tombs like Morrowind's or Cyrodiil's), while the less Raga-fied place of all will be -as we know- Rihad, and/or Taneth. So, on a scale of Raga-ness from 1 to 10, I'd give GM a 2, while ancient ruins should be obviously be given at least an 8. An 8,31 to be precise.
In order to plan this well, I'd suggest that we rate the provinces, to ensure that each of them is just as alien as it should (see previous paragraph).
And a few comments on the pic below. It's a very rough approach to the Raga (I wrote this word so many times, I'm as fed up as it gets) architectural style, based on the discussion in the Private Tavern and Lute's style, mostly the armor piece. When I was done with both versions (the second is actually changed in 4 places, 2 of which aren't too obvious) and stared at it, it somehow reminded me a lot of Mayan ruins. I didn't include such influences though - at least not on purpose. Feedback on this isn't simply appreciated, it's required. Making GM felt like a walk around my house, but this feels like a trip on Saturn.
The over all impression I got from both Lute's concepts and Scum's walls leads me to believe the "Raga" is very artistic.
Further the term Yuko was used to define the religious atmosphere.
I have seen little of the militaristic drive that we all know HF is meant to be. We have discussed how it would work. but have not focused on how fortifications should heavy everywhere, How regional lords would stuff more money into building and maintaining these structures, and how the Art would focus on these fortifications.
I may be wrong. GM may be a artsy-fartsy place. If so, we need to discus the aspects of culture and the motivation of the builders before we draw up the plans.
That said. The current concepts that are being introduced create a very 'alien' atmosphere. The gods and art is foreign, the armor imaginative. But how would the average Redguard experience them as, not just common, but completely normal?
The Telivanni lived in plants grown from crystals. Their giant chia pets were mundane to them.
In other words,
Where does the average Redguard go to worship, and how does he worship.
If (insert town) was attacked, how would the citizens defend this town. What allies among the other town would help?
How does each town train its children for warfare? Is the local Fighter's guild responsible?
Military is not everything, but I don’t think we have addressed it’s influence enough.
What is common food, drink, and clothing for each 'clan' then town. I see that many towns would still carry hints of their former Clan style and art. The degree of this old style would be much more prevalent the farther north the player goes.
Indeed, we haven't been through the military aspects of Hammerfell yet, but I don't think Redguards are so focused in having a strong army as much as they are in their personal training.
Macar had uploaded a very nice atmospheric that depicted two RGs sparring in some kind of Hammerfellian dojo. This alone is very representative of the RG's fighting culture, which is more centered on the personal honing of combat skills. That's at least what I have concluded, since I'm not exactly a lore master.
Their temples should resemble mosques, yet have to differ in terms of decoration and atmoshpere, perhaps including god statues, although I'm not sure if the current designs will fit properly in there.
The part about strong fortifications is something I had in mind from the beginning though, which lead me to draw the GM walls the way I did. They do have a 'strong' feeling, but at the same time they're more 'artsy' than the average Cyrodiilians, since the RGs would have naturally paid attention to such an important part of their lives as these.
Children training? This...Is...Hammerfell! In other words we're talking about Oblivion, which does not include children. This part is one we'll skip, however there are plans for outdoor training areas, where soldiers and civilians will go to practice their skills.
Lore-wise I would agree with El Scumbago on the training thing. The regimental style of the imperials just isn't the kind of military they go after, its more 'every man or small group for himself' than strength in numbers. Thats why rather than have a city watch like in Cyrodiil, I've been recommending a Militia, with more ragtag equipment, supplemented by real knights.
Agreed, I get a every clan for itself ideology. with each 'clan now acting as a town's defense under the leadership of the local nobalilty.
Another area is Naval culture. Rihad is a major port, but one would only surmise this from the dock.
I'm working on a [url=http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rihadlghthousepersp5tw.jpg]Lighthouse[/url] but is this the final concept? Does the nobility have it's own merchant ships? how can we tell one Lord's fleet from another? Do the Lords use color to smbolize their supposed territory, or do they use symbols.
I think I'm leaning to gang warfare, only evolved and controled. Nobil Lords/Honored Warriors taking head as figures of local government.
Regional conflicts over land or some such would be good for minor quests, have the Player be able to align himself with one 'clan' over the others.
Ah, the downside of rush... This concept doesn't fit the current Rihad/GM models. I don't know if it'll be used, but it is better to ask before you open your modelling program, so that your work isn't in vain.
To view the current approved concepts and what's the modelling status on them, check the Goldmoor forum. This applies to everything related to landscape and architecture. Other concepts are found in the Concept art forum as before.
As far as I know that lighthouse concept is the one that will be used. Fairwater had asked me to model it recently, however I was unable to do it for him.
Isn't HF's temple system similar to Cyrodiil in which each city has a patron deity? So perhaps the temple area of each city could have a large temple to a particular god with several outdoor or chapel-like shrines devoted to minor gods, ancestors, or perhaps foreign gods. Perhaps to distinguish it from Cyrodiil, HF temples are divided from the rest of the city by a wall, thus making it like a canton. That way, the temple cantons could contain housing for priests, temples, shrines, cemeteries, etc.
its not quite the same afiak. all port cities embrace tava for instance. Crown citites probably worship HoonDing to a large extent (fine, i pulled that out of my ass. but i can come up with logical suport). ramblings aside, i dont think each city has a partron saint; some may embrace a particular god more then others though.
the lighthouse is probably from a whole other era then the currnet buildings, that could acount for some of the artistic difference. and not all buildings in a city are off the same style anyhow.
as to militarism, that also depends on the region somewhat. but in general militarism is also quite flashy -- by keeping your city sexy you are giving the impresion of order and power. armies have nice uniforms only to show off, they fight in more practical stuff.
In hoc signo vinces
"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
-PoHa!
El Scum, basing that wall design off of armour would have been difficult and besides, I understand what N said, but that armour she linked to wasn't a very good idaa of Hammerfell, Lute has done real stonkers... much better than that. His early ones won't veer be as good as his rcent ones, bear in mind he's had to adapt to the art style (or culutre style more to the point), the longer you spend on it, the better you become.
Also in your description you say things need to be on a scale of Raga... That's true, but it's a scale of Raga and Imperial. And things like those tombs you mentioned would be Raga not 1/8 Raga. I will give you some ideas of what I think a wall could look like. Or a set.
"Only perfection is acceptable. I expect something beyond the acceptable." - Sload
"Orix bows down to £'s leet spelling skills" - Oriks
i more or less picked a prety random picture from lute's galery i myself couldnt decide what best represented raga. do post up a pic you feel is more appropriate and ill change it.
In hoc signo vinces
"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
-PoHa!
Because it's hard to work to a proscriptive brief. It's far easier to do a few concepts, look at which is best, make the set and then analyse what describes it. Setting out to make a set with some random characteristics would be folly, as those elements might not work together. It's like setting out to make a piece of music that's a jazz-funk fusion with elements of latin music: you will fail or produce something horrible.
CleverClothe: Hammerfell cannot be described atm. It will be described when it's describable, and it will be describable when we've made up our minds about the style of its buildings and clothes and flora. Goldmoor by itself means nothing at all, it's the Imperialised part of the province. It's when we go Raga that the magic will begin to flow.
Jale: Everything begins randomly and takes form and shape after a few failed attempts. Or many failed attempts.
LadyN: Do browse through Lute's art and pick what pieces you believe to be best please. You can tell better than me which are appropriate.
Pound: Adapting the style of the armor on a wall wasn't much of an effort, thanks to Lute's clear lines and style. But I'm eager to see what you can come up with. In the meanwhile, here's a cleaner shot of these walls and a hastily colored one.
the concepts look great scumy, i think they look much more raga alredy. the only thing that would make them PWN even more is if there was a snake head eating the next segment above each arch. ok, that may turn out too be too much
at any rate, they do look great. something i should probably note though is that is definatly a UC style. the LC would be much more simple, perhaps with only some of those elements painted onto the stuco
In hoc signo vinces
"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
-PoHa!
. So you all actually ahve the right to say "piss off" too.
)
i realy look forward to seeing what you come up with 
