Dres Concept Art

[Melchior Dahrk]

A while back a thread was started in the official forums by greendogo about what people thought that Dres Architecture would look like. I was intrigued and even though I have very little background as a concept artist (none at all actually) I decided to draw some. And then I drew some more and some more. People over at those forums liked what I had done and it was suggested that I start a thread here to show it.

So I have.

But I do this recognizing that TR has already done a lot of work on the Dres cities and settlements. But I have tried to keep my sketches fairly similar to Velothi architecture but adding in plenty of architectural differences to suit a new tileset as well. I hope you all like what I have drawn. But I understand if it is not what you've been looking for.

These first two were done early on and are not like the rest of the art, they were done more with a buglike architecture in mind but then people suggested that the architecture stay closer to Velothi


[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=Dres_Concept_Hall.jpg[/url]
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[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=Dres_Concept_Hut.jpg[/url]
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[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=dres.jpg[/url]
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[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=DresGatehouse.jpg[/url]
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[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=housedresslavepits.jpg[/url]
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[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=drescanal.jpg[/url]
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[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=Dres_Concept_Interior1.jpg[/url]

Well that's what I drew. I hope you like it...

Here is the link to the thread I am referring to. Which contains some more detailed descriptions and discussions of the art I drew
[url]http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=914525[/url]

[Lady Nerevar]

ive seen your stuff on bsf, and i think it has potential. im not sure if its what were looking for in the dres set, but little has been decided on the matter as of yet. what kind of materials and colors are you thinking for this set?

welcome to TR!

[Melchior Dahrk]

Probably dull earthy tones. Sort of like the velothi with some wood incorporated for detail. And resins used for the windows. But I hadn't thought about it too much. I know that greendogo a member of the forums here had talked about doing some models based on my art.

[greendogo]

I'm actually trying to gather many styles of architectural concept art so that a new Dres tile set comes into existence. Whether the chosen set is modeled by me or someone else, I don't mind, but more Dres concepts never hurt anyone.

By the way Lady Nerevar, what are you looking for in a Dres set? Has there been a general consensus on what criteria a Dres tile set should meet? This kind of information would be pretty useful to concept artists (besides fitting the general Velothi shape; I hate this rule; it's so boring).

But, as always Melchior, love your concepts, keep up the good work!

[Chin Music]

I think the general consensus was "We'll decide when we get there". Map 6 is a long way off, so I imagine there will be a decision later as to whether a new, unique set is made and the Dres cities are redesigned around it, or if it'll stay in Velothi's general shape with other stuff added onto it.

I think to look distinct enough, Velothi would probably have to be changed to the point where a city redesign was necessary anyway. Obviously, I'd like to see a unique set. There are already several towns and cities being done in Velothi or a redesigned version of it.

As for my opinions on Dres style, there would probably be an obvious bug motif, in the same way the Telvanni have mushrooms and the Redoran have shells. This obviously leads to things like bug wings/eyes (could make for cool patterns/colours, which could be used as windows/frosted glass) as well as husks, feelers, antennae, etc.

However, I also think that since Dres are a very wealthy, proud House, they would not be inclined to use the organic materials of the world immediately around them to create their buildings. Dres are a House which has built itself around asserting dominance over inferior beings, I think it would be appropriate that their architecture represented dominance over their surroundings. Though they live in harsh swamps with enemies very close to the border, their buildings stand apart from it, proudly displaying their defiance (and wealth).

Alternatively, it could be seen as recreating what has proven itself resilient in nature (bugs) in the materials of the Dunmer. Like how efficient movements for modern day robots are usually inspired by nature and evolution.

So here we have two things. Architecture which is made from conventional materials, stone, etc, but with an obvious bug-motif. I think this opens up a lot of possibility. It could be obviously made of stone, but with things like large, flamboyant wing-pattern windows, bug-eye domes, and fortifying towers shaped like insect husks.

Personally, I like Melchior's concept art. It shows a city which has been created by the Dunmer, but which has been inspired by the insect-world (perhaps by necessity, with the Dres' hostile environment), with more natural curves and supports than the conventional, rigid Hlaalu.

[Sload]

Dres art should be similar to Velothi, but the changes need to express a certain feeling. They should be unwelcoming, cold, and very austere.

[Myzel]

You still need Dres concept art? Why didn't anyone tell me?!

[Melchior Dahrk]

I'm terribly sorry. I was not used to these forums and seem to have copied and pasted the links incorrectly. I have fixed them now. So you may view all of my sketches. And no more avatar

I'm glad my art was well recieved even if it isn't exactly what you were looking for. Just trying to help out where I can.

[greendogo]

@Sload - I agree with you, what you said would indeed be the way Dres would act to outsiders, however, they are rich and the last time I checked, even assholes who are rich still live in nice houses. But point taken.

@Myzen - Alright! That's what I like to hear.

[Chin Music]

I agree with Greendogo. As much as Dres hate outsiders, I think they'd prefer to flaunt their superiority. It seems hard to think of something that is both extravagant and unwelcoming, as well as trying to keep it similar to Velothi.

A utilitarian look would make it seem cold, but that seems kind of boring. Going with a more flamboyant look makes it look more inviting. Is there an example of buildings which merge both concepts (while staying within the relative confines of the setting's materials).

I think the idea we're looking for is "terrifyingly beautiful". Something which is outlandish enough to be interesting, but cold enough to be unwelcoming. Something which is imposing and intimidating, even frightening (kind of like Daedric ruins and armor). Something which tells you that these people are your masters, that you would do well not to cross them.

Crossing Daedric architecture with Velothi might not be a bad idea actually. All retextured/redesigned of course to match and bear little resemblance to its original state.

Anyway going back to one of my bug ideas. I like the concept of fly-eye domes.
http://www.udel.edu/biology/Wags/histopage/wagnerart/coloredempage/flyeye.jpg

Edit: Here's something I just threw together in the CS just for the screenshot, to show the daedric x velothi idea.

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/9782/dresvv6.jpg

[Obagovo]

@Sload - I agree with you, what you said would indeed be the way Dres would act to outsiders, however, they are rich and the last time I checked, even assholes who are rich still live in nice houses. But point taken.

I believe Sload meant the Dres' religious views when he said austere.

[Melchior Dahrk]

Edit: Here's something I just threw together in the CS just for the screenshot, to show the daedric x velothi idea.

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/9782/dresvv6.jpg

I really like that, if you're going to cross Daedric with Velothi that is a very creative way to do it. But it might be difficult to have a Velothi/Daedric/Bugstyle mix, lol!

[Eraser]

Looks cool, but too much of a direct mashup of velothi + daedric. Take a look at the redguard comic, the show a dres area (and presumably a dres settlement) with lots of insectiod stuff and tents.

Perhaps two less comprehensive sets? A rural bug+hut like style akin to ashlanders, but more "civilized" instead of "tribal" and a city/plantation style for the rich and elite in city centers.

[Sload]

I think Sload meant that buildings are a way to create a cultural landscape - which is why the Redoran live in bugshells and the Telvanni live in mushrooms - and the Dres buildings should reflect the Dres culture, which is "unwelcoming, cold, and very austere."

[greendogo]

That's a good point. The Telvanni weirdness and xenophobia are represented by their almost alien architecture and tall forbidding towers. The Redoran defensiveness is represented by their use of shells. The Hlaalu's foreign influence is represented in their architecture by using sensible rectangular structures that aren't all that strange when compared to their brethren. Velothi style, however, isn't weird and has no big style influences from the region. I think this is because the Velothi style, itself, is foreign to the region. When the Dunmeri ancestors first came to the region, led by Veloth, this was their architecture. So even though it is their ancestral style, it is still foreign. The same goes for Indoril, with the foreign influence, except they have a more regal style, of course, because at the time of Morrowind, they are the protectors of the Tribunal and are very wealthy. Because Telvanni and Dres are linked by their xenophobia and hatred of all things other, then perhaps that would mean the Dres are as weird as the Telvanni. If so, then perhaps their architecture would be just as weird, and very unlike Velothi. (Personally, I don't think their architecture should look anything like Velothi, but this is one man's opinion.)

I don't think their would be that much of a cross between any Dunmer architecture and Daedric. I would still advocate them only having a small shrine in their homes to one of the three anticipations and the corresponding Tribune.

[Adanorcil]

[img]http://www.pointclickhome.com/files/web/imagecache/pch_gallery_detail/files/web/images/04cactus-house.jpg[/img]

Might be a cool idea for a Dres house, if it looked a little less happy. Overlook the materials and the plants, obviously.

[Tyrion]

They're living in a jungle/swamp too. I feel like it should be very organic, not so much as the Telvanni, they won't literally live inside giant plants.

[greendogo]

As has been pointed out to me numerous times, only a small extent of Dres territory is located in jungles or swamps. However, I believe it would be a good influence on their structures. The Redoran shell architecture matches the ashlands perfectly. However, they have holdings on the mainland as well, and it fits there as well. So maybe a style that fits both the plains, forest, jungle and swamps would be best.

Telvanni towns are situated around towers. Redoran cities are structured in a defensive fashion. Hlaalu cities are based around commerce. I believe that Indoril cities are based around politics, but all Dunmber cities have this characteristic, as well as defense and commerce. The towers of the Telvanni are a different case, because they are the focus point of their settlements. What would the Dres focus their cities around? The slave trade and their saltrice plantation, in terms of commerce, obviously. But they also border Argonia and should be properly defensive. They represent the Dunmeri presence in the south.

I think towers would suit them, but so would walled off cities with many guard towers. I think when considering the Dres, their location in terms of politics and defense should be considered as well as the climate they live in.

[Túrelio]

I got some concepts in the works, I'll post them here soon. I'm kind of feeling a cross between Velothi and Indoril, with the shades of a Daedric ruin maybe... and quite a few other things are being considered too.

[Chin Music]

The Daedric stuff is just inspiration, if it were to be used at all it would obviously be heavily modified and both sides of the architecture would be changed and retextured to make it look unique. Most Daedric stuff is just ruins and there literally almost no pieces that fit to Velothi well.

But for a starting idea I think it's not bad, merging the ideas of traditional housing while still keeping it interesting without making it seem too inviting.

Like I said before, the Dres have built their House around the domination of lesser races. Given that, and their wealth, I think it would be appropriate that their buildings would not work in harmony with their surroundings, but instead would flaunt their superiority over them. Something which stands distinctly apart from the landscape instead of being a part of it like Redoran and Telvanni buildings.

The Dres seem like the kind of people who would build a city over an otherwise uninhabitable swampland. Why? Because they can. This obviously gives the distinct advantage of being able to use their architecture in any environment (Hell, maybe Map 6 could feature a sunken Dres city, where they tried to show off their superiority just a little too hard).

Then, within that idea, it gets a bit more specific. In a Dres city, the Dres are your masters, often in more ways than one. They want you to know that you are small to them. Their buildings, at least on the exterior, should be intimidating, something to be feared and respected. I think the Dres would make use of lots of high towers. They are imposing, and high towers seem inaccessible, which is a feeling of inferiority that the Dres nobility would want to convey.

Perhaps like the Telvanni, a person's influence in a Dres city can be gathered almost entirely from the height of their tower, but taking that to extreme. In Telvanni cities only the local Telvanni ruler lives in the big tower. In a Dres city, the area is populated almost entirely by towers. Instead of sprawling mansions to show off your influence, it's high towers.

Think about it, the Dres cities could use the idea of literal height to indicate social status. Slaves are the lowest rung, and thus they are kept in pits. Commoners would have only meagre one-level apartments (people who are looked down upon, get it?). Lesser merchants could get another level, while wealthier ones could get another again. It could go all the way up to the towering manors of the nobility and local ruler. Their interiors could also get more lavish and extravagant as you ascended (because fantastic wealth would intimidate people too).

But I'm letting this get a bit out of hand. They want to keep it close to Velothi for a reason.

[greendogo]

I think that in the time before the Tribunal, Daedric worship was more acceptable. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many Daedric shrines on the island. However, I think all respectable Dunmer, once began the age of the Tribunal, would only focus on the three anticipations. Daedric influence on exterior architecture is kind of extreme, in my opinion, if it were to only be reworked and retextured Daedric ruin pieces mixed with Velothi.

I think the tower idea would be a good one to pursue. But other building types shouldn't be overlooked. The tower would be the general form of the building, but the style of the building is separate from the form. Styles considered so far are insects, heavy stonework, daedric influences and other materials and motifs as has been discussed in other threads here and on beth forums.

Chin, your tower idea is very interesting. Using height to convey superiority is a great idea.

I still disagree with Lady Nerevar and just about anyone on the subject of keeping it close to Velothi style. I think it would ruin the chance to create something truly unique, as I think the occasion of creating the Dres warrants. But, it is a community project that has far reaching influence for future modding projects. It is, in my opinion, as important as the official expansions, and so the decision to use Velothi architecture is a reflection of a lack of manpower. The idea seems like something Beth would do to cut down on work, like they did so many times before. When Beth stifles their own work, we all feel the pain. Did you play Oblivion? Did you feel sad at its unreached potential?

[Chin Music]

I wasn't implying that the Dres would take inspiration directly from Daedric architecture. Especially considering Dres are a fairly religious House, I believe (though I couldn't be sure).

Daedric architecture and armor is a great example of a style that is very fascinating, but also imposing and hostile. I just wanted to an example to show what kind of feeling Dres architecture might want to convey, and used the building to show how such elements could be incorporated into more traditional housing (because Daedric ruins are most definitely not houses).

So regardless of whether the buildings are stone or bugs or whatever, that is the feeling they would try to convey, because towers on their own are not intimidating. So at this point, given we have a potential layout and feel of a Dres city, then we have to decide the shape, materials and decoration that would be used to make them.

When I was thinking of these Dres tower-cities, the vision in my head was one similar to the Dunmer strongholds. Grey stone, with a sort of "trapezoid" shape. Similar to this screenshot:
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?picture=Ouada-Garidur_05.jpg&p=screenshots&gallery=4

Definitely an intimidating look, but obviously Dres cities have to be different. That's where any further input from me would probably cause this post to explode it would be so long. This is because well... I kind of suck at drawing.

I'll just say that as far as the bug motif goes, I think it could be limited to decoration, in the form of domes, windows, engravings, fountains, whatever. Maybe doors. Just perhaps not as part of the shape of the buildings themselves.

[Túrelio]

Chin, coincidentally I was already working on a concept for a Dres Manor that involved a tall tower and I was thinking quite similarly to what you stated. I also see walls as being a huge part of Dres city planning.

Greendogo, you mistake sticking to Velothi with uncreativity. Any concepts that we bring to Morrowind must also evoke the feeling OF Morrowind, they cannot be completely alien and devoid, as if stepping into a separate universe. All of Morrowind must feel like a transition, with the extremes located at the center of each Great House, their capitols and the buildings of their Lords. Remember House Dres is very traditionalist, so Velothi style fits them well.

Anyhow, here are some of my initial concept sketches for Dres architecture. I decided to focus on what a Tribunal Temple might look like with influence from Dres architecture. My sketches for actual Dres structures are a bit different but I took some of the ideas and put there here. I also took from Velothi, Indoril, and Almalexia's Temple. I figured, a Temple still has to be recognizable as a Temple, so I wanted to keep the basic layout the same.

Anyhow, I'll have more here in the next few weeks. Let me know what you think, and please discuss/make suggestions.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/2592/drestempleconcepts2ho7.jpg[/img][/url]

[Hemitheon]

Gorgeous. I'd say a little less Asian influence.

[Chin Music]

Yes, as far as walls and defensive towers go, I was thinking that these would actually be placed in the heirarchy of height. My thought was that since walls and sentry posts essentially "belong" to the city guards, then their height is placed in the heirarchy accordingly. Dres place a deal of importance on defense, and so the warriors of House Dres would have walls higher than commoners, merchants and more public buildings (such as the Temple, any guilds or other major service-providers like inns) but perhaps not so high as nobles, officials, and the otherwise extremely wealthy.

As for your temple art, it's a great drawing, but I think the style is a bit too regal and otherwise Indoril-like for House Dres.

Come to think of it what do Indoril settlements use for temples in TR? The standard temples would look pretty out-of-place in say, Akamora. Oh well.

[greendogo]

Túrelio - I agree with this kind of mix between Velothi and another style. There is no argument that this is something that must be done. I simply was getting the idea that Chin was saying a reuse of models was in order. Something like a retexture. I suppose Túrelio's drawings are something closer to what you meant Chin, sorry for my confusion.

Anyways Túrelio, I think you have a future in concept art. I love them, absolutely and utterly. My favorite details are the doors and archways on all of them, though I think the 2nd one is a little busy. I like the dome on the first two better than the 2nd type on numbers 3 and 4, the ring of spikes around the dome seems, again, too busy. I also love you ideas for the windows, very nice. Overall, they all have a sense of intimidation and elegance/power. Very cool.

The fact that you have four similar drawings is also very nice. This is why i say you have a future in concept art. Popping out slightly different concepts of things is quite useful in the design process (I learned this watching Star Wars documentaries ).

Also, I like the Asian influence, it isn't really Asian anyway, there are no Asians on Nirn (the closest style to asian on Nirn would be Akaviri style probably).

What's wrong with the Dres architecture appearing regal? Their elite would think they were royalty anyways, remember their mentality.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Love the art, Túrelio. Great stuff.

I think I'm with Chin in that it's slightly too 'regal', and perhaps draws too much from Indoril? I really like number 4, however, with those triangular windows and set of ring-windows under the 'dome'. Looks really atmospheric, and I can imagine seeing them lit up at night. (Not in game, of course)

I'd love to see your concepts for 'normal' Dres buildings.

[Chin Music]

I don't think there's any problem with it appearing regal. On the inside.

But on the exterior, I don't think it gives off the intimidating feel that they would be looking for. Dres aren't exactly trying to attract tourists here, they're trying to let people know they're to be feared.

[greendogo]

Ha ha, tourists, good point. No one likes tourists, let alone, the Dres.

Crustacean, thanks for pointing out the windows on the dome, I didn't see those and assumed it was just ringed with spikes, but the windows are very nice.

[Túrelio]

@Hemitheon - Noted

@Chin Music - Yes, or in some areas this might mean better defenses, you'll see what i mean once I finish my housing concepts.

"As for your temple art, it's a great drawing, but I think the style is a bit too regal and otherwise Indoril-like for House Dres."

These are actually meant to look more Indoril, or more of a combination of the two, as I figure the Temple's in Dres are going to still look a bit different from what the rest looks like. I was thinking along the lines of perhaps the Temples were being built by missionaries from the Temple, and probably Indoril, to passively bring Dres closer to "proper" doctrine. Hopefully again you will see the comparison better in my next concept, but I still want to maintain some regal-ness, especially for the Upper-class. I do have some neat ideas for the lower-class.

@greendogo - Thank you, actually I am an Illustration major, and I've done a limited amount of concept art for a game studio, but it might be quite a while before that game ever sees the light of day, if ever(just story & art right now). The goal is to get a job as a concept artist once I graduate. Yea the second I was considering that the Temple might try to make themselves more welcoming to the general/lower-class Dres populace, almost in contrast to the rest of their style, if that makes any sense. I don't think Akaviri(asian) influence is out of the question, especially as it appears to have influenced Indoril, but I am still refining it, the next ones I think will appear less so.

[Túrelio]

Love the art, Túrelio. Great stuff.

I think I'm with Chin in that it's slightly too 'regal', and perhaps draws too much from Indoril? I really like number 4, however, with those triangular windows and set of ring-windows under the 'dome'. Looks really atmospheric, and I can imagine seeing them lit up at night. (Not in game, of course)

I'd love to see your concepts for 'normal' Dres buildings.

Thanks, Yea I know that some effects aren't going to be possible in the game, but I like to illustrate them anyways, and also helps the viewer understand what is going on there.

The "normal" Dres buildings I have are a range, the Upper-class has similar style, more intimidating and walled off, the highest nobles I was considering giving special platforms on their towers for the Dres Riders to land on. The lower class almost imitates the upper-class structures, but with "lesser" materials, so made of more wood, less evenly cut stone work, and probably even bug parts. Over all I'd say that the lower you go the less structurally sound the buildings look lol. I also plan on doing a concept of a city, or section of one, with street plans and all, using most of the concepts I come up with, and maybe even populated.



@Chin Music - Yea I totally agree with that idea of not wanting to be to attractive, but I also imagine the Dres nobility as being stately. Anyhow, the Temples IMO wouldn't hurt being a little attractive, even in the Tribunal Temple attracting converts or the less religious types is never a bad thing.

[Chin Music]

Well, it's not really for me to say what anything should look like, I'm just kind of interjecting my ideas here and there.

I suppose that is it quite possible that Indoril may have bought some land from the Dres council to be used for the construction of Tribunal Temples, considering that this EXACT scenario is mentioned in the Telvanni Brown Book for the mainland. Although the Telvanni refused them.

Still, I wonder if that would influence the actual architecture of the temple itself, considering similar temples appear nowhere else. Indoril are intimately connected to the Temple, but I'm not sure how much of an influence they have over it. Indoril only likely got involved after the Dres initially refused Temples be built on their own land. With the land being bought from them at an assumably inflated price, the Dres might agree.

If such a temple was to be made, I would love to see it appear in Indoril settlements, where the standard brown stone Temples would look out of place among Indoril's grey-green architecture.

[Túrelio]

...considering that this EXACT scenario is mentioned in the Telvanni Brown Book for the mainland. Although the Telvanni refused them.

I knew my sub-conscience was interjecting Lore into my art

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I eagerly await the new art!

It will be especially interesting to see the city plan.

[greendogo]

As I don't have access to the unfinished maps, would anyone with more access be willing to tell us approximately how much of Dres land is located in plains/forest/jungle/swamp/mountains/arctic tundra? That kind of information could always be helpful in considering architectural styles.

Crustacean perhaps?

PS - I sent you a pm Túrelio

[Chin Music]

I don't think there's anything definitive as to what amount of Dres is in swamp, but I suppose you could include whatever borders close to Argonia and/or what is close to a water source.

I imagine Tear itself is in swampland.

[Túrelio]

I have some older Morrowind & Morrowind-inspired fanart on my DeviantArt account, and I am working on some now too, here is a sneak-peak of one(that u can see I'm using here): [url]http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/4021/ordinatorwip7pd8.jpg[/url]

Otherwise I have no more concepts other than whats in my sketchbook and here. My quarter ends in two weeks, so I am really busy right now. Actually I shouldn't have even done this today, but I'd been thinking about it all day, so I couldn't help it. I should have more time after it ends however. Right now I am debating if I should do the city completely in isometric-ish view like I did these, or in perspective... because isometric just gives me the willies lol, just the lack of perspective, but it is a lot easier, especially for conceptualizing. I'll probably do some of both.

[greendogo]

I will be waiting with bated breath. Good luck in your studies, many of us know what that's like (or are going through it now).

[Túrelio]

Thanks, it's probably a bit different from what you are use to lol. I have two spot illustrations and a full page depicting the new Moonrace, three Berkley-inspired 18x24 acrylic paintings, and a book cover of Egyptian art to work on. On top of that, I have a final exam for my Art History class... yea I'll be swamped for the next couple of weeks. However, I much rather it be like that, I hate taking exams.

Anyways, so this isn't to off-topic, I also am planning on doing some character illustrations, for Morrowind and Hammerfell. Only thing I've gotten so far is that I should do one of some Hammerfellian Guards, but if other's have got some ideas, I'm open to them. I guess I can do some Dres concepts, although I know the armor has been done already, as well as several clothing types. Any suggestions are welcomed.

[greendogo]

I think there is a distinct lack of everyday Dres clothing. I believe it was Lady Nerevar that drew some very nice blue and yellow outfits, I don't know what happened to those though. I'd like to see what you think a Dres councilman would look like, or Tear council guards.

Also, when we were talking about towers before, what is everybody's opinion of their appropriate heights? And would they be tiered like a ziggurat or straight up and down towers Rapunzel-style?