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Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

Two things to address:

The spit of land could be removed. Nemon, I think you mentioned the river was too narrow at that point, and thats a good way to make the river wider and bring the castle directly to the mouth of the river.

Secondly, I gave most of the houses chimneys because I thought it made the roofline of the city look really neat and old-fashioned. You can remove some if you think its a problem, just watch which ones already have interiors, or simply make it so that not all have smoke.

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"Imagination and memory are but one thing which for diverse considerations have diverse names."

"How dare you question the colonnade!" - one of the Glorious Leaders

"Nemon + IKEA = creationism" - some guy

"The layout is awesome, the scale is awesome, the whole city is just awesome!" - Tyrion on Blacklight, circa 2007
Post Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:22 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

If someone wants to create a stitched-together mesh of the imperial tower meshes to replace the ones used at OE for the sake of MGE, feel free to do so, and I'll add it to TR_Data.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:17 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Yeah, I don't know. I made the river mouth approx one cell wide and it looks nice now. The most narrow point was south of that spit of land anyways, and I like the way it is different than the cliff sides of the castle island. I also have plans for the U-shaped canals it contributes to.

I also added NPCs for reference in terms of lag and stuff. Right now it's getting crowded, and I haven't even started adding lights and details in the city center, so some smoke will have to go. The chimneys will all stay since they make a nice scenic view.

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Post Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

99% complete. Plus a few screens.







Last WIP up as well, next one will be filed for review.

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Post Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Scamp
Reviewer
21 Nov 2009

Location: The Velothi Mountains

looks great as always, Nemon! Very Happy
Also, nice screenshotz Razz 8)

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Post Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
blackbird
Reviewer
01 Mar 2007

Location: Brugge (bruges), Flanders, Belgium

1. Is the castle already finished?
2. Judging from the screens, I believe a bit more clutter (like crates) could improve OE.

3. I forgot to say, that you have uploaded nice screenshots!


Last edited by blackbird on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:04 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Awesome! I think it would be nice to have a little more light in the town (Lanterns/torches) by the time the finished product rolls around.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:06 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

Did you think about adding lanterns to upper story windows, not just doors? That might improve things a bit.
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"Imagination and memory are but one thing which for diverse considerations have diverse names."

"How dare you question the colonnade!" - one of the Glorious Leaders

"Nemon + IKEA = creationism" - some guy

"The layout is awesome, the scale is awesome, the whole city is just awesome!" - Tyrion on Blacklight, circa 2007
Post Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:56 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Katze
Developer Emeritus
26 Feb 2009

Location: Behind you!

Pwitty Pickcha!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9897526/TR%20Files/MGE%20Screenshot%2064.jpg

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Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:40 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

blackbird wrote:
1. Is the castle already finished?
2. Judging from the screens, I believe a bit more clutter (like crates) could improve OE.

3. I forgot to say, that you have uploaded nice screenshots!


No, not completely cluttered. I'll add more crates, they're the drug of any first person game. Too bad they don't break.

Haplo wrote:
Awesome! I think it would be nice to have a little more light in the town (Lanterns/torches) by the time the finished product rolls around.


Yeah, I might replace the lanterns with stronger ones.

Tyrion wrote:
Did you think about adding lanterns to upper story windows, not just doors? That might improve things a bit.


It might also do too much harm on the frame rate, so I think I'll rather replace the lanterns with stronger ones.

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Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

I'm not sure how relevant this still is, but is A1 still following the rivermap properly?
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:06 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Aeven wrote:
I'm not sure how relevant this still is, but is A1 still following the rivermap properly?


No, it's off by approx 1 cell, it should have been here:

A1 A4
0 0
0 0
River
0 0

instead it's here:
A1 A4
0 0
0 0
0 0
River

But it doesn't run into the sea yet... Haven't looked at the river map, it's not posted in this thread unfortunately.

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Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:48 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Off to review! I've been in game so many times now... I might have gone claim blind on this one, so forgive any mistakes here.

I added lots of crates, containers and stuff, as well as upgrading the lights, and adding a few extra here and there.

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Post Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

TESAME: Clean

Fits exterior: Yes



Northmarker set: Yes
Loading errors: No



Review: Some containers not rotated to rest on the ground properly. These claims have all been very high quality, with only minor errors. Good job.

Comments The novel use of statics to create focal points and interesting spaces continues to delight me. I made a few aesthetic changes here and there (see the fountain) but otherwise there was pretty much nothing to complain about, and everything to be pleased with in this claim. Nemon's level of quality, and his vision in creating exteriors is truly top-notch. The countryside looks bright and inviting, while the city has truly been brought alive.

The grade is for Nemon's work and only Nemon's work.

Rating 10/10

edit: changed name of file to avoid confusion



TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_9d.esp
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_9d.esp
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_________________
"Imagination and memory are but one thing which for diverse considerations have diverse names."

"How dare you question the colonnade!" - one of the Glorious Leaders

"Nemon + IKEA = creationism" - some guy

"The layout is awesome, the scale is awesome, the whole city is just awesome!" - Tyrion on Blacklight, circa 2007
Post Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:28 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Approved. Clean reviewed file has already been uploaded to the first post for when this opens for NPC work. Great work to everyone who has contributed to this.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:52 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Nemon, I was just running through the TRV area today and I have to say that Old Ebonheart is an absolute masterwork which surpassed all my expectations of it; it is absolute awesomeness. Even without texture replacers or MGE it is a feast for the eyes, so much lovingly crafted detail.

Anyway, I think there is maybe room for one medium-sized addition and improvement, to add the finishing touch to TR's brilliantly realised Thirr Valley, if someone has the time. (I'd almost be willing to give it a shot myself because I think it would be so worth it)

At present (see attached screen) there's a slightly odd cliffy peninsula jutting out west of OE, which jars heavily with the rest of the entire TRV, and makes its mouth look slightly odd and narrow given how much the place opens up to the south. More importantly it also seems to separate OE and its present (and relatively small) docks from the valley, when it (and they particularly) should be one of its most integral parts.

I'd advocate removing the promontory and adding in some extra (no new ints if not necessary) docklands to OE, to really emphasise the Thirr's place as the hub of Morrowind's trade, and the fact that the Cyrodilic Empire is really built around trade, not cliche-fantasy-empire swords and castles. (in pic: red = remove, yellow = rough area of suggested docks)



OETRV.jpg
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a man melts the sand so he
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Post Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

yes do away with that bit of inexplicably jutting land. I am less certain about adding additional docks though. Seems to me like it would be quite strange to have 2 sets of docks, even if they are for different bodies of water.
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Post Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:40 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Mmm, I see what you mean. We could remove the other set then (although I actually quite like the metropolitan feel of multiple economic centres, again trade is the lifeblood of the Empire and it would really emphasise that) - because there should definitely be some major docks at the mouth of the Thirr, which is far more important as a trade route than the Inner Sea.
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a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Katze
Developer Emeritus
26 Feb 2009

Location: Behind you!

There is Andothren on the other side of the Thirr mouth, I think more docks would be overdoing it. The trade would be taking place at Narsis, Almas Thirr, Roa Dyr and the Dres cities down Lake Andaram.
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"If a hermaphroditic, bug-armored, bipolar god-king existing in multiple universes who has his very own bible with *actual* magic strewn throughout it is your idea of a cliche, then I really would like to live in your world." -MK

"You say a lot of things. And how does that work? You're a bicycle"

Tea is important.
Post Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:38 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

I still think the existing docks at OE should at least be moved so they're on the Thirr (though again, would personally advocate two docks). OE needs to have a direct visual impact as a vital economic centre, controlling Imperial trade on the Thirr, which at present it doesn't. Players aren't counting port cities, they're looking at each one individually. To get the right image for OE across, it needs more prominent docks.

You're right about the number of trade sites: Hlaalu get Andothren and Narsis, 'Morrowind' gets Almas Thirr, Empire gets Ebonheart, Dres get their many cities. This creates the sense of a bustling economic region with multiple factions heavily involved. That's not a bad thing - that's the exact image we want to get across, and is ripe for exploitation through dialogue and quests.

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a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:00 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

That would require a retooling of the entire city, moving or adding new ones. I do not think it is unreasonable at all to have ships sail over to the docks. I am still in favor of removing that land thingy, but moving or adding new docks seems like a terrible idea.
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Morrowind Reviews: 1640
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The just man frowns, but never sneers. We can understand anger, but not malevolence - Victor Hugo, Les Miserables

The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power - Brutus, Julius Caesar

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Post Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:05 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

The docks stay.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:47 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

The docks stay x2. We're currently delving way too deep in the realm of nitpicking here, not to offend anyone dear friends... In my mind the "gods terraforming of Tamriel made the dock placement easier on the north east side since the cliffs were too bad on the west side". I see BCs point, and if anyone is willing to make the opening wider then ok, feel free to have a conceptual go at it.
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Post Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:06 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

I don't think I ever suggested the removal of the docks. For me it's just a point of 'show don't tell' - it's all very well saying there's bustling trade on the Thirr and that Ebonheart's the capital of Imperial trade, and we can have some dude mention it in dialogue, but none of that would be as impressive as having an actual busy set of docks (which at present doesn't exist anywhere in the Thirr on Maps 3 or 4).

Just for the purposes of reinforcing NPCing and dialogue, would you guys also be opposed to a little bit of expansion work on the existing docks to make them look more active? (At present, even Necrom has more impressive docks)

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a man builds a city
with
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a man melts the sand so he
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"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I figured adding NPCs would bring it to life. Some extra cluttering would be okay, though. I don't know the current state of the docks.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:31 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Extra detailing could be done, yes.
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Post Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

As much as extra detail, there just needs to be a little bit more dock 'space' as well, to expand it a little bit. Again, for TR's last major Imperial settlement and the most important trade centre of the Empire in Morrowind, the present docks are awfully small. (And to reiterate, I'm not being nitpicky about 'logistics' or whatever as if I think this is a realism issue - I'm talking about visual impact and the wider goal of 'art' and getting a message across)

There ought to be some room for smaller river craft and smallholders to dock with their supplies, alongside the existing big transport type ships, maybe a little bit of space for market traders as well, and other dockside activities.

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a man builds a city
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a man melts the sand so he
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"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:38 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

You can't put docks on the Thirr side, that's the side with the cliffs. You can't put them around the castle or otherwise. You could expand the docks to the east if you wanted to, but I tried to keep the city from taking up too much space. Expanding the docks would probably require renaming another cell for just a little bit of dock space. IMO, not worth it, the docks there are big enough already. I think we have what, 5 large ships? That's pretty many as far as Morrowind ports go, and there's still space to add some smaller skiffs as well. There's even a strand to the west below the castle outside the town walls where you could have poor fishermen or whatnot drag their boats up or add a ramshackle quay if you really wanted to.

Also, as per the cliff promontory beside the castle, I think Nemon said before he liked the way it made the river mouth look, and that the narrowest point is actually a bit south from there.

_________________
"Imagination and memory are but one thing which for diverse considerations have diverse names."

"How dare you question the colonnade!" - one of the Glorious Leaders

"Nemon + IKEA = creationism" - some guy

"The layout is awesome, the scale is awesome, the whole city is just awesome!" - Tyrion on Blacklight, circa 2007
Post Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:30 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

that's just a checklist of reasons why doing nothing is easier than making changes, which is obviously and necessarily true, i can hardly deny that, but none of it really addresses my point.
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a man builds a city
with
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside


"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

We aren't adding any more docks, holy hell and if Nemon likes that land jut well guess what, he's the HoE.
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Morrowind Reviews: 1640
Completed MW Interiors: 29

The just man frowns, but never sneers. We can understand anger, but not malevolence - Victor Hugo, Les Miserables

The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power - Brutus, Julius Caesar

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Post Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:30 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

Uploaded the file with new Factor's manor and chapel here.


TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp
 Filesize:  934.07 KB
 Downloaded:  83 Time(s)


_________________
"Imagination and memory are but one thing which for diverse considerations have diverse names."

"How dare you question the colonnade!" - one of the Glorious Leaders

"Nemon + IKEA = creationism" - some guy

"The layout is awesome, the scale is awesome, the whole city is just awesome!" - Tyrion on Blacklight, circa 2007
Post Sat May 28, 2011 1:32 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

Small note: replace the fountain's spray activator with a clone that doesn't have the fabricant disable script, so not all fountains across Morrowind disable when the Fabricants attack Mournhold Wink
Post Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:53 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Leon
Developer
30 Jul 2011

Location: The Netherlands

Review



4/8/2012 (15:35 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (6, -18 ) "Terrain_rocks_AI_02" 53020 -141710 1313 "Needs to push the "X" Position few times"

4/8/2012 (15:39 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "TR_barrel_01_cheapfoo20" 63029 -150316 494 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:40 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_empty" 64353 -149846 488 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:41 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_pos" 64352 -149732 491 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:42 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_saltrice" 64635 -149788 524 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:43 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_empty" 60821 -147689 161 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:43 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_empty" 60753 -147683 156 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:44 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "TR_furn_barrel_empty01" 60689 -147685 152 "bleeds in ground"



EDIT
The Fabricants attack script on "Ex_MH_Pav_Water_Spray" in the fountain is still there and should be removed, what Aeven said in his latest post.

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SamirA
Developer Emeritus
27 Apr 2010

Location: Somewhere in Tamriel

When this is ready for the next step I need the Fighter's Guild sign moved from building #15 on this map http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/7383/oewestmap.jpg to building #3. The provincial hq being tucked away in an ordinary building needed a move.
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Post Mon May 07, 2012 3:55 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

So, what is the status of the old plans to have a complex canalization system partly used by thieves under the city?
Post Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:31 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Sounds interesting, I've forgotten about that. It shouldn't be too difficult, the layout of the city makes it easy to add a few grates here and there - a "main" entrance in one of the backalleys and we have ourselves a win.
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Post Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:55 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Re-opening this claim for minor exteriors work - adding a couple small islands, possibly doing seafloor detailing. Anyone interested?
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Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Archiving this. Will be made into the OE section file, so people can get started with this minor work and merging of ints.
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