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Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

Yeti: Greetings 7 has two "BEGIN TR MAP3 LOCAL GREETINGS", one right before Sailen's dialogue and the other right before a hodgepodge of m2 and m3 dialogue. My entries are between those two. I cannot find the relevant placeholder entries for Greetings 5, but my entries are next to Evos quest greetings. Unsure where proper placement would be in either case.

i3-729 has an uncertain future. Rot & I have considered moving it elsewhere, because an abandoned Adamantium mine seems like it should have more planning behind it - not just lying out in the wilderness for exploration with no apparent ties to the locals. Unless a good background for its current placement is developed, it will be relocated.

Also "You should give the farmstead npcs an alternate greeting so they aren't always saying hello to the player with the same exact words." This greeting is already conditioned on first meeting, so afterwards they'd use generic greetings. Acceptable?


Will fix other issues.


Last edited by Tondollari on Mon May 05, 2014 4:59 am; edited 3 times in total
Post Sun May 04, 2014 11:21 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



TR doesn't follow a convention on shack pathgrids, usually doesn't have them. Unless there's a specific item to get around they're likely unnecessary, could even cause weird behaviour in cramped spaces (thankfully NPCs aren't supposed to move in there)
Post Sun May 04, 2014 11:50 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

Update. Fixed reported dialogue + interior errors.


v3 clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp
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 Filename:  v3 clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp
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Post Mon May 05, 2014 5:35 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

An incomplete review of the current file.

Overall, Tondollari did good work on this. I hope he returns from his apparent break from TR (he hasn't logged in since May 30).

Changes needed to bring the file in line with the new House Indoril concept + other section planning issues:

Saveri Estate needs converting into a Velothi farmstead owned by a successful non-affiliated Dunmer farming family. The current estate uses the MH set, which will now only see use at Indoril Castle Estates and Almalexia. Also, the estate looks like an Indoril plantation under the current design. The Indoril do not have plantations.

Exterior changes required: Replacing current MH manor with two Velothi houses and replacing the stone road texture with the dirt road one.
Interior changes required: Two new interiors for the proposed houses.
NPC changes required: The Saveri family needs to become a family of farmers. Remove the Bosmer slave.

Exterior changes: We still need someone to make that road through the mountains. I suggest having it pass through the Saveri Farmstead. It will require the fewest exterior changes.


Other comments

The farmsteads could still use second alternate greetings to give a bit more variation to what NPCs tell players.

I don't like the name Saveri. I suggest Savoron, Savothil or Sathir as possible replacement names.

I advocate removing TR_i3-729-Ind from its current location. An abandoned adamantium mine makes little sense lying so close to a road in a densely populated region.

The greeting for the people at the Velonith farmstead might be a little too friendly. A slight rewording of their greeting can fix this.

Outlaw NPCs need their AI Package Attack stats set to 100.

Move the Selyn farmstead DoorMaker into the actual Selyn cell for dialogue filtering.

I think the Saveri and Selyn farmsteads should have localized greetings like the other two farmsteads, as a nice added touch to make visiting these locations somewhat eventful.

What's with the abandoned longship in cell (5, -31)? Seems out of place with no crew in the area.

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Post Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:49 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Does anyone have time to make the quick exterior changes listed above? Once you do, I can create the new interiors and put the finishing touches on this claim, seeing as how Tondollari already said this was ready for review and seems to have gone on a (hopefully short) TR sabbatical.
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Post Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:52 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I'm going to go ahead and take over this file for NPC and dialogue editing and making the minor exterior changes I listed.
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Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:41 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I've made my previously suggested changes (though I changed my mind on some of them), except for the path through the mountains, which I do not feel up to with my meager exterior skills. I'll put up a claim for the new Velothi Saveri Farm house.


TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp
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 Filename:  TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp
 Filesize:  2.25 MB
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Post Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:34 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

Thank you for your comments & picking up the file. After I'm done with Sailen I will pick it up again for dialogue revisions. Was the creaturing up to snuff?
Post Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:14 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

The creature placement seemed fine to me, not sure if any dialogue revisions are required at this point.

I'm also not sure working on on Sailen is very advisable at the moment. We have rather large changes planned for the village in the future,:
Sload wrote:
Sailen
A large Velothi town, the last stop on the pilgrims' road before Necrom.

Adjustments: Convert from MH to Velothi.
Dialogue and NPCs will probably transition largely unchanged into the new version, but it still might be best to hold off on any further work on the town.

Glad to see you back, Tondollari.

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Post Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:41 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Sorry about not replying to this earlier, I just looked at your changes in the CS.

I'm not quite sure about having a single large building for the Saveris; I think it is too visually evocative of a plantation manor. The farms and buildings are owned by an Indoril, and not the Saveris, and so there is no real reason for them to have better accommodation than other non-Indoril.

I see a few solutions:
-replace the current large building with two or maybe even three smaller Velothi buildings. They can still all be inhabited by Saveris; I'm really discussing form over content here.
-keep the building, but clarify in the interior claim that the building provides communal housing for the Saveris, rather than being a family farmhouse, as such.
-keep the building and make it a family farmhouse, but give the Saveris some kind of special position. Perhaps the family have long been loyal servants of the local noble. They would still not own the house, but rather the noble arranged for them to have more comfortable accommodations in recognition of their services/whatever.

One could also argue that I'm being too rigid in following the new Indoril guidelines, but as I said I do think the current outward form of the place is misleading.

Edit: also, three minor notes:
1. if you're still considering changing the name from 'Saveri', I think your two first suggestions sound good. 'Sathir' sounds more Khajiit than Dunmer to me. As they're an unimportant family, though, I don't really think their name needs to be perfect.
2. almost all of the corkbulb plants in the nearby field lack any sort of rotation.
3. does it make any sense for ash-yams to be grown here? I do think the subject of Indoril crops would probably be best tackled elsewhere, though; possibly in the Ald Orethan discussion.
Post Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:06 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Quote:
replace the current large building with two or maybe even three smaller Velothi buildings. They can still all be inhabited by Saveris; I'm really discussing form over content here.
Can someone else quickly implement this solution? The other ones require too much unnecessary backstory. Probably best to make this a communal farmstead like the other ones in the claim with multiple families who just happen to own slaves. While you're at it, please implement a mountain road running through near the Saveri farmstead.
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Post Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I can take this one.
Post Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:09 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I'm starting to think my recent focus on roads was a mistake. Razz

(It's only after I sculpted out the road that I remembered that this region makes heavy use of rock stairs, which would have greatly facilitated the process).

This is done.



TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp
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Download
 Filename:  TR_Map_3_Detailing_A3.esp
 Filesize:  2.25 MB
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Post Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:14 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

This does eventually need a pass to Othrensis.
Post Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:17 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Gnomey just implemented one.

Good work, Gnomey. I'll post the interiors when I get the time.

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Post Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Just out of curiousity, why is this and A2 not merged into a section file? (rot will probably kill me for asking this question though Razz)

Edit: The road heading east from Almas/Roa should be a mainroad for sure, this is one of the main west-east routes of Morrowind and leads directly to the capital.

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Post Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

If it's going to be a mainroad, its size probably needs expanding from the initial work Gnomey did.
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Post Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:52 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Yeah. A road map of the area would be good, like I made for And-Thirr. If the road I made is going to be changed to a mainroad, then A6 is going to need some changes too, which was naturally outside of the scope of my work.
Actually making the conversion shouldn't be hard for A3, though; if I had been willing to edit A6, I would have made half the road section a bridge, as the road currently dips down steeply and then rises up again.

Edit: A6 might be more challenging, as it uses those aforementioned rock stairs, but I'm sure whoever does the changes (I would be quite willing to) would be able to come up with something.
But I really do suggest planning the road system out first.
Post Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:57 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

This is now deprecated, and merged into the new Indoril-Thirr section file. All work is to be done there now.
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"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
-Hippocrates
Post Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:18 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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