Map 3 NPC Claim #9 [arvisrend]

After an exterior claim has been cleared by a review, the thread will be moved here. Discussion is still allowed.

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Nomadic1
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Post by Nomadic1 »

lol. Happens from time to time. Someone writes a name wrong, and then everybody else starts doing it. It has to be a little annoying. Just ask Bloodthristy about the Sandril manor and plaza. :]
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Post by immortal_pigs »

I won't have time to finish this up until the 1st or 2nd of october. Just a heads up.
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Post by Haplo »

That's fine. Thanks for the heads up
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Post by Haplo »

Just poking you, imm_pigs, it's now several weeks into October :-P
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Post by immortal_pigs »

Update. I only have time to work on this during the weekend nowadays, so progress has been slow.

@ The Greatness, thanks a lot for your scripting help.
Not killing random civvies by the way, their part of the quest. :P
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Post by Nemon »

Any update on this one? We're close to one month since last time.
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Post by Haplo »

This needs an update within the next few days. I've PMed immortal_pigs to try to get his attention.
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Post by immortal_pigs »

Ill get this finished for tomorrow.
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Post by Haplo »

Thanks imm_pigs :-)
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Post by immortal_pigs »

voila ici;

If anyone wants to playtest these quests first, there are two quests:
Religious Inquiry and Save a Prayer

Religious Inquiry is hinted at through the rumor mill in Sailen (one of four possible rumors). It can be started by speaking with the Witchhunter, Girynu Rathryon at Sailen, Pilgrim's Hostel. You will need to have sufficient disposition to start the quest, though.

Save a Prayer is also hinted at in the rumor mill. It takes place in Erys, an egg mining village to the north of of Sailen. When entering the house of Duran Balvel, you will find Ladiana, a slave. Speak with her to start the quest.

Besides that, this should be finished now.
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Post by Haplo »

Sweet deal :-) Moved to Reviewing!
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Post by Andres Indoril »

Now, I don't normally post here, but this is EXTREMELY important. I can't even say exactly HOW imprtant this is. Except for maybe saying that this is EXTREMELY important, using caps and all. Now, as I was saying, this is EXTREMELY important. The people in "Sailen, Bradyn Farmhouse" were supposed to be a LESBIAN COUPLE, one BRETON, one IMPERIAL, not one DUNMER AND NO ONE ELSE. >:/


You have betrayed my trust, Pigs of Immortality. You truly have.



EDIT:
To make things worse, the NPC in "Sailen, Idroso Menas' House" was supposed to be a male, living with his girlfriend, not a female living with her clannfear.

EDIT2:
Even worse, you have made a female commoner a male healer. I am beginning to doubt that you even bothered taking a look at the NPC notes for the locations...
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Post by immortal_pigs »

Indeed.

This exposes the fatal design flaw of TR, that the NPC and questing design needs to adapt to the exteriors and interiors, rather then the exteriors and interiors being designed to accommodate NPC and questing ideas.

So don't blame me, blame the system.

P.S.: I like what you did there with "Pigs of Immortality", you truly are a wordsmith.
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Post by Nemon »

immortal_pigs wrote: This exposes the fatal design flaw of TR, that the NPC and questing design needs to adapt to the exteriors and interiors, rather then the exteriors and interiors being designed to accommodate NPC and questing ideas.
Exteriors are made after a discussion on lore, region concepts, static usage and house/faction domain. Ideas are thrown around both before and during the creation of both ext/ints as to which kind of interiors/NPCs we'll be aiming for. It's not a [url=http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0288740#m_en_gb0288740]fatal[/url] design flaw.
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

not everyone writes NPC descriptions and/or quests for their claims, it isn't as though this stifles creativity or something (in fact it would probably stifle the interior maker's creativity). It is not even a flaw in my opinion now that we do relevant discussions before each region.
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Post by Why »

so, to be clear, what should happen with this claim? I haven't really been able to distill a workable answer from the above posts.

I for one think NPC notes should be followed. It might be too much trouble for the Telvanni guy/gal as he/she is already involved in a quest, but I don't see why the others shouldn't be changed.
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

yes they should be followed here, and should be in the future as well.
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Post by Why »

By the way, Erys still needs a rename. I thought it was agreed on that it'd be Evos.

edit: details are one page back.
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Post by The Greatness »

That reminds me of pokemon too much. What's wrong with Erys?
Warning: may contain large amounts of sarcasm.

Myzel- We never actually see slaves working on Vvardenfell either. They're always just standing there. If you ask me they deserve a good whipping.
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Post by immortal_pigs »

I think a Male Healer is more interesting then a female commoner (and he's involved in the quest). I had no idea there was a policy of reading NPC notes, or at the very least this claim did not come with such notes. My approach has always been to look at the interiors and make NPCs that would plausibly fit with it and the region in general.

Regarding the pillow house I do feel lenient towards the idea of redesigning the NPCs.

"Fatal" design flaw is an exaggeration, but what I mean is that in some areas quest and NPC design is restricted by the exteriors and interiors it is given.

Take for example Helnim, why is there no Mages Guild there? I don't know if this was a purposeful decision (if so, I don't really understand the rationale), but it seems as if it was just forgotten somewhere along the lines, and no extra exterior or interior were made for the MG, and now there's practically no MG on Map 2.

Another example from Map 2 is Kemel-Ze. I'm not saying the interior itself is flawed, but it doesn't seem to have been designed with a well defined quest purpose in mind, other then that it should be a fun place to explore (which it is). But as you can see in the quest thread for Kemel-Ze we had to go back and see what we got and then try to make some kind of sensible quest-line out of it, which still isn't done.

A third example is the Tribunal Temple quest-line. From what I've understood, like Vanilla, you first have to do the pilgrimages to be initiated. So now you have a bunch of shrines (only in the Telvannis region) which conclude the initiation. However, there are now also a couple of random shrines about Map 2 and 3, which are not integrated into the TT at all. It would make more sense to have shrine placement and exterior design come from a preconceived TT design, rather then have the TT quest design have to adapt to the already (somewhat randomly) located shrines.

I'm not saying everything has to follow preconceived design plans, as that would indeed stifle creativity. But currently it seems that exterior and interior design comes first, with quests and NPCs being treated as an afterthought.
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Post by Why »

These days usually the purpose of an interior (and by extension the nature of the NPCs that should go in it) is stated in the claim description. Older claims some time don't have that, but still sometimes modders include their own NPC notes. Just look up the relevant claim threads when NPCing interiors. If the final interior has been OK'd and there is an NPCS description, I assume that was OK'd in the review process as well.

The weird history of Kemel-Ze makes it a bad example here. Besides, it is archaic. I find that the process is way more streamlined today. And as far as I know the lack of a Helnim Mages Guild is intentional, not every somewhat significant town needs a Fighters and Mages Guild. Take Caldera, for example.
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Post by Katze »

Helnim has a Mage Guild Relay for transportation in Helnim Hall, anyway.
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Post by Haplo »

Feelings of leniency aside, NPC notes need to be followed. The comments by Andres (and Why) need to be addressed, so I'm sending this back to claimed. It shouldn't be too much trouble to adjust the NPCs as required.
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Post by Why »

Regarding Erys/Evos, risking sparking another name debate, doesn't Evos sound way too much like Vos?
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Post by immortal_pigs »

Will take care of this and other things soon.

However there seems to be a chunk of land missing just north of Sailen. Maybe it was supposed to be a part of the Necrom claim but it's simply not there.
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Post by Haplo »

Yes. That will be taken care of in Map2Claim8 when it undergoes some fixing.
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Post by blackbird »

Did you use the latest version of m2a8 and did you use clean files?

I'm sure I have fixed those cells, but some older versions don't have those cells.
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Post by Haplo »

I've checked, and we do have those cells in the latest file.
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Post by Katze »

The problem with missing cells isn't present in the Sacred East merge I made available in internal downloads ( not that the NPC claims in that are up to date anymore :/ )
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Post by immortal_pigs »

This should be good to go now.
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Post by Haplo »

Excellent! Do you have a list of the misc quests in this claim? (Just so we know what to look for)
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Post by immortal_pigs »

Pasted from above:

If anyone wants to playtest these quests first, there are two quests:
Religious Inquiry and Save a Prayer

Religious Inquiry is hinted at through the rumor mill in Sailen (one of four possible rumors). It can be started by speaking with the Witchhunter, Girynu Rathryon at Sailen, Pilgrim's Hostel. You will need to have sufficient disposition to start the quest, though.

Save a Prayer is also hinted at in the rumor mill. It takes place in Evos, an egg mining village to the north of of Sailen. When entering the house of Duran Balvel, you will find Ladiana, a slave. Speak with her to start the quest.
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Post by immortal_pigs »

Can this file be sent to reviewing?
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

submitting to review
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Post by Haplo »

Alright, all the dialogue should be fixed now. Can someone playtest these quests?
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Post by Katze »

I played both quests and noticed a couple of issues.

In Religious Enquiry, upon successfully interrogating the Telvanni Mage and getting her to confess, she mentions that you are free to see her experiments in the basement, but the door remains 80pts-locked. Perhaps she should give the player the key to the basement?

The rumor in Sailen pertaining to Evos for the Save A Prayer quest call the town Erys, so everything needs to be checked to make sure there is consistency in naming the place.

One more thing; I noticed that at the entrance to the Sailen Temple, there was a wooden staff randomly sticking out of the ground, and a chunk missing out of the ground between the entrance arch and the Indoril steps leading away from the temple.

I might replay the quests soonish and see if I can find any other errors, I'm sure I spotted a couple of typos in the dialogue.
Last edited by Katze on Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Aeven »

A world error here: EX_MH_building_05 in Sailen (most eastern building the the cell) is floating/caspering in one corner.

Also, do we need Indoril settlement banners to be created? It's a tiny chore, and I could have it done in a few hours.
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Post by Haplo »

Moved back to Claiming for el quest tweaking.
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Post by Katze »

Just going to point out that there were no shop signs either. Makes it kinda hard to find the services in Sailen.
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Post by immortal_pigs »

A world error here: EX_MH_building_05 in Sailen (most eastern building the the cell) is floating/caspering in one corner.

Also, do we need Indoril settlement banners to be created? It's a tiny chore, and I could have it done in a few hours.

I played both quests and noticed a couple of issues.

In Religious Enquiry, upon successfully interrogating the Telvanni Mage and getting her to confess, she mentions that you are free to see her experiments in the basement, but the door remains 80pts-locked. Perhaps she should give the player the key to the basement?

The rumor in Sailen pertaining to Evos for the Save A Prayer quest call the town Erys, so everything needs to be checked to make sure there is consistency in naming the place.

One more thing; I noticed that at the entrance to the Sailen Temple, there was a wooden staff randomly sticking out of the ground, and a chunk missing out of the ground between the entrance arch and the Indoril steps leading away from the temple.

I might replay the quests soonish and see if I can find any other errors, I'm sure I spotted a couple of typos in the dialogue.
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