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Terrifying Daedric Foe
Developer
26 Aug 2010

Location: England

Quote:
Kiliban (ForceGreeting): No, please halt! I'm done, I give up. Yes, we took your Bug Musk. I don't have it here, Cajan got it. I swear that's the truth. And it was Tarus who gave us money to take it. No, I can't proof it, but it's the truth, by Almsivi.
Should be 'prove' rather than 'proof'.

Quote:
Lorus (if the player accused Tarus): Well, thanks to you, we got our property back. However, your next assignment is linked to this case though.
I would replace the second sentence with: 'In fact, your next assignment is linked to this case.'
_________________
'The strange thing about TR is that I think it is by and large accepted that we will finish. We are all the sort of crazy people that would do such a thing. We are inevitable.' ~ Thrignar Fraxix
Post Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Some random remarks on a nice claim...

You made the same mistake as Zobator did in q2-28: Replies to the "Merro Galvix" by random Tel Mothrivra NPCs are randomized. So you can ask the same person twice and once hear "I haven't seen an Imperial [...] since that tax collector last year [...]" and then "I think I saw an Imperial around town last week [...]". In replies like this, random100 almost never has any good use. Try conditioning on things like race, faction (Telvanni will be particularly keen to ridicule any Imperial).

You might also want to add some variation to the "Merro Galvix" responses in Adurin-Ouaka. The locals will probably not be happy about you helping him, so they shouldn't sound very helpful.

For some reason, I'm not able to continue past journal TR_m2_EEC_Lorus1 stage 55. But maybe that part is just not done yet. Tarus has nothing new to say, nor does Melia.

I've taken a look at the dialogue and I have minor issues with some of Lorus's ("You cannot kill people, certainly not in this company! If you go on like this, you have no future in this company."), but all in all it's much better than in your previous claim. Scripts look fine, although I guess you haven't really started with that in this claim yet.
Post Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:00 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



arvisrend wrote:
For some reason, I'm not able to continue past journal TR_m2_EEC_Lorus1 stage 55. But maybe that part is just not done yet. Tarus has nothing new to say, nor does Melia.

Thank you, I found that bug and a few others, but...

did you try to murder the sailors?

arvisrend wrote:
I've taken a look at the dialogue and I have minor issues with some of Lorus's

If you tell me what in particular, I'd be glad to make changes.
And then you might have a look at the rest of the dialogue:

Topic 'discrepancies'

Melia (at start): Yes, four bottles of Telvanni Bug Musk have disappeared. I'm sure they've been stolen. The only people with access to the warehouse recently are myself, Tarus Meritorus the clerk and two sailors from the Reckless Maiden. They were a redguard and a dark elf, but I can't remember their names. Anyway, they looked tough so be careful. And don't kill them. Lorus takes a very dim view of company employees murdering people.
Melia (then): Please speak with Tarus and the captain of the Reckless Maiden, but try to be polite. I really don't have the time to break in a new clerk or negotiate with a new deliverer. Um, maybe you should speak to Tarus first.
Melia (after speaking with Tarus): Did you find our missing Bug Musk? You know where to search. Now you must please excuse me, there's plenty of work waiting for me.
Melia (if player got bug musk back): Great, you got the Telvanni Bug Musk back. Let's see, one, two three, four bottles, great. All undamaged? Yes, great. Perfect. Well done. Um, where did you find them?
*...the player can blame the sailors now...
Melia: The sailors? And..., did they tell you why they stole it? No? Well, nevermind. I'll just take the Telvanni Bug Musk and take care of the paperwork. Did you already speak to Lorus Avius?
*...or Tarus...
Melia: I understand. I checked the records recently and I found some suspicious figures. Obviously that weren't the sailors. I think Tarus tries to hide disappeared items. Anyway, just give me the Telvanni Bug Musk and talk to Lorus Avius. I'll have an eye out for Tarus.
Melia (done): Thank you, with that four bottles our records are correct again.
Tarus: Dis..? Oh, yes. You're speaking of that four bottles of Telvanni Bug Musk, right? Well, I don't want to blame anyone, but I'm sure those two sailors from the Reckless Maiden have stolen it.
Tarus (after he denied involvement): That again? Don't you know any other topic you could talk about? I told you everything I have to say about it.
Tarus (after accusing him of theft): Stop bothering me! I've got nothing to do with it.
Sjorvan (accusing his men): How dare you suggest that! I know Cajan and Kiliban and they don't have a dishonest hair on their heads. Now get off my ship and go bother someone else.
Sjorvan (afterwards): I thought I told you to get off my ship.
Sjorvan (Kiliban dead): You murdered Kiliban! And why? 'Cause you can't find four bottles of Bug Musk. Four bottles! Bloody bastards!
Sjorvan (Cajan dead): You killed Cajan, bastard! He was one of my best men. Get off my ship and never come back!
Sjorvan (both dead): You're a murderer! Cajan and Kiliban are dead! I swear every ship captain in Morrowind will hear about how the East Empire Company treats their partners. Get off my ship! Now!
Sjorvan (after blaming Tarus): My boys told me it was YOUR man who decided to steal your Bug Musk. Why don't you take care of him and I take care of them.
Kiliban: I know you're an outlander and don't understand our Dunmer customs, but in Morrowind we don't go around accusing people of theft without evidence. Do you have evidence? I thought not.
Kiliban (after fighting him): I swear that's the truth! Go and ask Cajan. Or go and ask Tarus. That was all his idea.
Cajan: So this is how the East Empire Company operates, is it? Pay someone next to nothing for hours of back-breaking work and then accuse them of theft? Where's your evidence? Nowhere!
Cajan (after fighting him): What else? I gave you the Bug Musk and told you everything I know. Please don't call the guards, I have a wife and two children.

Topic 'two sailors'

Melia: Yes, a Redguard and a Dark Elf from the Reckless Maiden. The definitely looked as if they could handle themselves pretty well in a fight.
Melia (after all denied): They both denied? Too bad. I mean, you can't just screw the truth out of them, no?
Melia (finished quest): Yes, thank you for your help. Um, can we talk about it later? I'm really busy right now.
Tarus (he denies involvement): I would bet my next three wage slips that they stole the Telvanni Bug Musk. Really shifty looking if you ask me. And anyway, who else would steal it? I mean, why would Melia or I steal from the Company?
Tarus (afterwards): You know what? You should go and talk to them. Now please excuse me. I got work to do.
Tarus (the sailors blamed him): They said I paid them? That scum! Why should I pay some filthy sailors to steal Bug Musk? That's nonsense! They try to blame me for their theft. Or do you you have any evidence? See, totally lying scum, all of them. And now leave me alone!
Tarus (finally): You can't tell me you believe those thugs! Really, I got better things to do than listening to such stories.
Sjorvan: Yes, Cajan and Kiliban did a bit of manual work for the East Empire Company. What they do during their shore leave has nothing to do with me.
Sjorvan (later): I don't care what you say, I know they aren't thieves.

I think that was all of the dialogue for TR_m2_EEC_Lorus1.
Any feedback is welcome.
Post Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Update: new version contains playable TR_m2_EEC_Lorus1 without major bugs (at least I couldn't find any), plus some early parts of TR_m2_EEC_Lorus2

please note that I slightly rearranged the journal entries for Lorus1, so don't get confused
Post Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:12 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

My problems with Lorus' dialogue are rather subtle -- it's definitely functional; what I don't like is its sound. If the below four replies are supposed to convey serious disappointment or anger, they fail. If they're supposed to show that Lorus doesn't really care, they could make it more obvious. Either way, they sound a bit too... infantile, even if it might be a character trait of this particular NPC.

"I couldn't believe it when I heard one of our employees killed a sailor. Because the East Empire Company doesn't kill people! We're traders. If you intend to be successful in this company and not get fired soon, you must break this habit of killing people. Do you understand? So, at least you got our property back. May I ask from where?"

"Did you retrieve our Telvanni Bug Musk? Good, that at least explains why I got reports of one of our employees killing a sailor. Let me make this clear: we do not kill anyone! We are a business company and not the Fighter's Guild. You want people killed? Ask the Fighter's Guild. Is that clear? You're new, so I'm not going to sanction you, but I'm not going to reward you either. By the way, where did you find the Bug Musk?"

"It's good for you that you found the missing Bug Musk, because I just had a very unpleasant conversation with the infuriated captain of a cargo ship. I had to apologize for an employee murdering his sailors. This is intolerable! You cannot kill people, certainly not in this company! If you go on like this, you have no future in this company. Do you have anything to say in your defence?"

"Even Worse! This means the sailors were innocent citizens. How could you get evidence for your accusation now? This is a very serious misbehavior. One that wouldn't go unpunished normally, you should be glad that there's an urgent new assignment waiting for you."

Particularly the first three of these sound too over-the-top to be serious, but not enough to be ironic. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't think that a boss who just learned that one of his workers went on a murder spree would behave like that.

Also, this is weird:

"Two sailors you say? I wonder what they had in mind. Sailors aren't normally among our customers and I can't imagine sailors using Telvanni Bug Musk. Well, maybe your next assignment sheds some light into this."

Who has said they were customers?

Also, repeated sentences are no good:

Lorus about "assignment": "Melia informed me about her recent findings, %PCName. It seems that the discrepancies in our figures are more severe than we initially assumed. Melia will tell you more about it."

Lorus about "discrepancies": "The inconsistencies in our figures seem to be even worse than we initially assumed: Melia thinks that Tarus manipulates our figures. This can only mean one thing: he's stealing our property. I want you to go back to our warehouse. Melia will tell you how to help her."

The latter reply is said directly after the former if the player clicks on the "discrepancies" hyperlink (which he should). And remove the "Melia will tell you more about it" sentence from the "assignment" reply; it gives a false (I think) impression that you should directly head straight away to Melia without speaking to Lorus about "discrepancies".

I don't recall having problems with any other NPC's dialogue, so this might be an issue with the character you are giving to Lorus.

Other things...

If you try to join the EEC and ask for the Solstheim resumé, you have to wait for 7 days. In that time, most players will probably forget that there is something like an EEC in Solstheim. I think this needs a dummy quest that starts when you ask for admission and ends when you get it.

Maybe some mentions of "the Lighthouse" in the journal could be replaced by "the Helnim Lighthouse"; the journal is supposed to be "looking at things from a distance". The letter, of course, is fine as it is: Tarus surely knows what lighthouse is meant...

Looking forward to Lorus2!

(PS: I'm very sleepy, so don't be surprised if I'm bringing up non-issues. Sorry.)

PPS: To pick up the note TR_m2_q_19_TarusNote, I have to go into sneak mode. Is it lowered too deep into the floor? Or there are too many crates nearby?
Post Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:47 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I have to echo arvis' concerns here regarding the dialog - some of it seems out of place, you might want to check it again. Try to stick close to the vanilla Morrowind style and make sure everything makes sense together. But don't let it hold you back, I've looked over your scripts and they seem excellent so far. Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to playtesting what you have so far once I get home and get this whole voting business taken care of.

A passing thought, maybe waiting a whole week for those Solstheim documents is a bit over the top. I definitely like the implicit shoddy bureaucracy but we run the risk of the player forgetting about it or being out of town once the documents arrive and ending up ignoring the quests. Maybe a waiting time of three days is better, but I'm not sure. How do you feel about the matter?
Post Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:01 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



New update - questline should be completely playable by now, dialogue is still very WIP though

Why wrote:
A passing thought, maybe waiting a whole week for those Solstheim documents is a bit over the top. I definitely like the implicit shoddy bureaucracy but we run the risk of the player forgetting about it or being out of town once the documents arrive and ending up ignoring the quests. Maybe a waiting time of three days is better, but I'm not sure. How do you feel about the matter?


When going by ship (Helnim - Ebonheart - Khuul - Fort Frostmoth and back again) it took me 2 days and 20+ hours. It becomes 3 days when going to Raven Rock from the fort.

So I'd like to make it 4 days. Do you think it's too much?
Post Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:22 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Hm, that's a good point then. Might as well make it five or keep it at a week then.
Post Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:03 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

What about leave it at a week but add a quest that stays open until you have really joined the guild? I feel that even one day could be too much, as the player will get overwhelmed with quests in Helnim and easily forget about this one (given that the EEC is hard to find to begin with).
Post Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:42 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



arvisrend wrote:
What about leave it at a week but add a quest that stays open until you have really joined the guild?


I like that idea.

I'm thinking of a basic 'fetch item' quest without reward, and as a non-member it can't be finished because of liability issues. It would demonstrate the EEC bureaucracy. Maybe it sends the player to some place-of-interest too?
Post Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:12 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Minor progress made

Here's an idea for the reminder-quest:

TR_m2_EEC_Lorus0 - On trial

When the player asks Lorus Avius to request on Solstheim, he'll send the player to Zaren Hammebenat who needs a little help.

Zaren will tell the player that he must send an estimate of costs to Idriso Venalis at the Amthuandz excavation who is about to order miner's picks, buckets, empty crates, sawdust and Scrolls of Ekash's Rocksplitter (=Scrolls of Ekash's Locksplitter written in chinese) at the EEC.

When Zaren realises that the player ain't member he'll refuse to hand out the estimate. Lorus will then tell the player that there's nothing he could do.

Once the player is a member Zaren hands out the estimate, the player gives it to Idriso. Zaren will send the player to Lorus who thanks the player, but won't give them a reward.
Post Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:41 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Update

I've added a mini quest which can only be finished after the 7 days have passed.

Also added dialogue for expelling PC.

If you, arvis or why, could take a look at the dialogue and give me the details what to change it'd be very helpful. Otherwise I'll probably set it to 100% and leave it to the reviewers
Post Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:16 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Not a review (no time for that these days), but some remarks on your scripting (which is generally top-notch):

In TR_m2_q_19_Lorus2Script, it would be good if you would have commented on the semantics of the controlQ variable like you did in TR_m2_q_19_KilibanSamarysScript. At the moment I can only guess what the different values of this variable mean.

Also, line 77 has very misleading indentation.

Are you sure you don't want to also set controlQ to 1 on line 113? (I have no real idea, as I haven't playtested that thing yet.)

---------------------------------------------------------

Random remarks on dialogue/journal:

Quote:
Record: INFO "1739826054260286269" (Journal:tr_m2_eec_lorus2) Flags:0x0000 ()
INAM: ID:1739826054260286269
PNAM: Prev_ID:2632319532520020446
NNAM: Next_ID:17451244841743525699
DATA: JournalIndex:10
NAME: Response:
Melia said she suspects Tarus of stealing the Company's property and selling it away. She saw him in the storage rooms upstairs sometimes, when there was no reason for him to be there.


Why not just "Melia suspects [...]"? I wouldn't overuse indirect speech.

Quote:
Record: INFO "17451244841743525699" (Journal:tr_m2_eec_lorus2) Flags:0x0000 ()
INAM: ID:17451244841743525699
PNAM: Prev_ID:1739826054260286269
NNAM: Next_ID:25342153721997431974
DATA: JournalIndex:20
NAME: Response:
I found a piece of paper with Tarus' name, it mentions a meeting at the lighthouse.


Replace "it mentions" by "mentioning" or "and a mention of". Or replace the comma by a period, but then the sentences would sound too simplistic.

Quote:
Record: INFO "1872425056103637048" (Journal:tr_m2_eec_lorus2) Flags:0x0000 ()
INAM: ID:1872425056103637048
PNAM: Prev_ID:32766284111810131653
NNAM: Next_ID:21540274553198131857
DATA: JournalIndex:40
NAME: Response:
I talked to Erdgolf, the lighthouse keeper. It seems that some people - none of them Tarus - pay him to store crates and not to worry too much about them. He probably knows more.


Not sure but I seem to remember we use -- for such things, instead of a single -.

More serious problem: Journal:tr_m2_eec_lorus2 speaks about "the lighthouse" all the time, without ever specifying what lighthouse (the Boethian Mountains one? no, the Helnim one).

Quote:
Record: INFO "19010253692453013398" (Journal:tr_m2_eec_lorus2) Flags:0x0000 ()
INAM: ID:19010253692453013398
PNAM: Prev_ID:21540274553198131857
NNAM: Next_ID:22375174451860831545
DATA: JournalIndex:60
NAME: Response:
We heard voices outside the lighthouse, Erdgolf said I should watch the smugglers from the outside stairs.


Again, the comma has no place here. You could resolve this by putting an "As" in front of the sentence ("As we heard voices [...]"), or by replacing the comma by a period. (Again I prefer the former option.)

Quote:
Record: INFO "22375174451860831545" (Journal:tr_m2_eec_lorus2) Flags:0x0000 ()
INAM: ID:22375174451860831545
PNAM: Prev_ID:19010253692453013398
NNAM: Next_ID:30934297521544020585
DATA: JournalIndex:65
NAME: Response:
I heard voices outside the lighthouse, I think from the outside stairs I should have a good view without getting noticed.


Same problem. Besides, "I think" should not be used in journal entries: who are we to know what the player thinks? Try "The outside stairs should offer a good view [or perspective?] without too high a danger of getting noticed."

Quote:
Record: INFO "30934297521544020585" (Journal:tr_m2_eec_lorus2) Flags:0x0000 ()
INAM: ID:30934297521544020585
PNAM: Prev_ID:22375174451860831545
NNAM: Next_ID:2571630163170414640
DATA: JournalIndex:70
NAME: Response:
I killed the smugglers, on one of them I found a letter from Tarus.


Same problem, again. "One of the smugglers, which I had to kill, carried a letter from Tarius."

Quote:
Record: INFO "944332261780521504" (Journal:tr_m2_eec_lorus2) Flags:0x0000 ()
INAM: ID:944332261780521504
PNAM: Prev_ID:2571630163170414640
NNAM: Next_ID:2612613383295207892
DATA: JournalIndex:76
NAME: Response:
I took a sample from the crate, I think it belongs to the East Empire Company.


Again.

By now, I guess you know the main issue you should be looking for in your dialogue: Separate (and sometimes too short, at least for the comparably intellectual and complex writing style of Morrowind) sentences separated by commas. Do you think you're able to fix these problems throughout your file without help? (I'm not sure what your English proficiency is; if it is even half as good as your scripting, though, you should be fine. :)

One final thing:

Quote:
Record: INFO "2612613383295207892" (Journal:tr_m2_eec_lorus2) Flags:0x0000 ()
INAM: ID:2612613383295207892
PNAM: Prev_ID:944332261780521504
NNAM: Next_ID:2313166252305718539
DATA: JournalIndex:80
NAME: Response:
I could neither observe smuggling activities nor find stolen goods at the Helnim lighthouse. I must have missed the smuggler's meeting.


Do you see the difference between "smuggler's" and "smugglers'"? (Yes, we did that wrong a couple of times.)
Post Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Thanks for the feedback, I'll go over the dialogue now that I know what to look for.

Feel free to playtest it anyway...
Post Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

6plus, any progress on this one? I prefer not to playtest versions with known issues, and I also prefer to know what a script is supposed to do before playtesting it. Thanks a lot!
Post Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Changed anything from arvis' post, other minor changes and file cleaned.

I say it's finished (or at least ready to be taken over by a reviewer).

Notes for merging:
ex_de_ship_trapdoor Helnim, Docks (25,0) 207307 7760 150
"This trapdoor shouldn't be locked."

in_c_door_wood_square Helnim, Warehouse 3795 6720 16912
"Should be set to key TR_m2_q_19_EECWarehouseKey."

in_c_door_wood_square Helnim, Warehouse 3661 6464 16912
"Should be set to key TR_m2_q_19_EECWarehouseKey."

in_c_door_wood_square Helnim, Warehouse 3085 6642 16912
"Should be set to key TR_m2_q_19_EECWarehouseKey."
Post Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:59 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

OK, first little impressions.

1) My game crashes a few frames after I pick up the note. I suspect this has to do with the voodoo used in its script (TR_m2_q_19_NoteScript). I don't know if not picking it up would solve the problem, but I'd rather have you not use undocumented voodoo in the first place. (A search for "menutest" gives only one script, and that is yours.) I think TR_m2_q_A8_1_TredynNoteScript is an example of a functioning (or so I hope) script on a book that gives a journal update when opened.

2) A topic 'Idriso Venalis' with the NPCs in cell Amthuandz would be good. That topic, of course, should be added when the player gets the quest.

Alas this is all I could test in the time I had for it today. Can you do these fixes before I continue?
Post Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:53 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Done
Post Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Thank you for the fast update!

I am sorry for a wrong lead, though. It seems that the game still crashes a few seconds after I pick up the note. I don't know what causes it, but one suspicion I have is that the "StartScript TR_m2_q_19_Lorus2Script" in the script on the note starts TR_m2_q_19_Lorus2Script as a targeted script, targeted on the note (which gets deleted when the player picks it up). Here are some (apparently) relevant MSFD paragraphs:

Quote:
If an object is deleted while a targeted script is running on it, the game will CTD. If the
target is not necessary but is merely a consequence of the way the script was started, you
can usually target the script on the player instead to avoid this: "player->StartScript
ScriptName". Otherwise, the script must be stopped before deleting the object.
• Scripts will detach from non-persistent targets when the game is saved and reloaded. This
may give errors on load ("Unable to locate reference for global script…"), or may not;
either way it may also give odd effects in some circumstances.
• When a targeted script is started on an object that was not placed into the gameworld in
the editor (i.e. an object that was placed or generated during the game), the script will lose
its targeting when a savegame is reloaded. Note that this applies to the player character as
well.


If I had more time, I would try targeting the script on some persistent (to avoid error messages, even if harmless ones) reference that cannot be picked up or otherwise removed (if I am reading the third item from the above quote correctly, then targeting the player character is a bad idea). Seeing that RL and q2-17 are keeping me perfectly busy these days, I fear I'll have to ask you for doing this experiment. Sorry and thanks for your time!
Post Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



arvisrend wrote:
It seems that the game still crashes a few seconds after I pick up the note.

Voodoo, eh?! It doesn't surprise me, it's always the undocumented function...

Anyway the script now targets the crate. I've tested it and picked up the note a few times without any CTD. I hope this solves the problem.
Post Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Quick as usual -- thanks a lot!

I am *still* not able to do changes myself due to lack of time, but there are things that need minor modifications.

The second reply to topic "Idriso Venalis" should be conditioned to cell Amthuandz (not Amthuandz Excavations). And the topic should be addtopic'd from the "cost estimate" reply "Well, then I need a sign here..., and here is the estimate. You must deliver it to Idriso Venalis at the Amthuandz excavation site. You got that?".
Post Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Not a review yet, just some playthrough comments. At the moment, q2-17 takes priority for me because I can imagine it getting merged and published way sooner than this claim (it isn't even playable without PCRaiseRank TR_EEC 1 since we don't have enough other EEC quests at the moment). It's absolutely not because of the intrinsic qualities of this claim, which are great.

I somehow managed to instafail the lighthouse quest by getting stage 80 directly after Erdgolf told me about the smuggling. Now I am unable to reproduce it. What I did was to first talk to Erdgolf about "shady dealings", then wait for quite a while, and only then talk to him again and succeed at getting the info. But apparently this alone isn't enough to get the bug. I'll look into that later.

Postquest dialogue for Erdgolf could be nice.

Also, "one and for all" should be "once and for all"; it's not the Three Musketeers, is it?

The quests are really well-done apart from this, and provide quite a pleasant gameplay experience! They don't offer much in terms of lore / Morrowind atmosphere, but that's a weakness of their original designs (the whole Helnim is like that, alas). I'd say some side blows at Helnim politics would do the dialogue a favor, but Helnim doesn't have any politics to begin with!
Post Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:49 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



arvisrend wrote:
The second reply to topic "Idriso Venalis" should be conditioned to cell Amthuandz

Damn, how could I miss that... Embarassed

I think I'll wait a bit before I upload another file and see if you find more.
Post Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

I've looked more carefully at the scripts now. Good job! I guess I was wrong about instafailing the quest (I tend to playtest these waaay past midnight, and I'm not talking gamehour here).

Dialogue:

BNAM: Result: Choice "Pay it." 8 "Nevermind." 9

Choice 8 should be in brackets: "[Pay it.]" It's not something the player says.

The following greeting-5:

Do you have a problem with our language? You just can't seem to understand that... Wait! What's this? Hold on, it's Gilmyn's letter. Where do you have it from? This is a private letter and not meant to be read by stinky denouncers. Give it to me! Oh, wait! You think there's something to it. That was just a meeting between good friends, but probably this is something you can't understand. From now on you keep your nose out of my personal matters!

might do with a Set/Moddisposition result. So might the next one:

So how'd you like it if I wandered around telling everyone you were a thief? It doesn't feel nice, I can tell you. But you're not going to make friends by slandering innocent colleagues. You don't even have a proof. Now get lost! I won't talk to you any longer.

Next, Cajan:

Sometimes irritating people comes to unpleasant ends. I find you very irritating, %PCName.

"comes" -> "come".

You never seem to give up, huh? Okay, okay, [sighs] we did it. The company clerk, Tarus, paid us to steal some Bug Musk. He'd have got it later and paid the rest. It was a mistake, but it sounded too good. You can have the Bug Musk, maybe it's not to late confess. Sorry, that I can't give you any evidence though.

not toO late TO confess? Also, why the comma after the "Sorry"?
Also, you might add a result that sets disposition to (for example) 60 if it's smaller than that. The dialogue sounds like that could make sense.

No, please halt! I'm defeated. Don't kill me! I admit! It was us, who took the Bug Musk. No, I don't have it here, Cajan got it. I swear that's the truth. And it was Tarus who gave us money to take it.

The comma before the "who" doesn't sound very English to me.

Sorry, I'm out of time again. Actually, I hope that somebody like Why can go through the dialogue and point out not just the typos but also the stylistic issues (I see a couple, but I am not the right person to judge). There are some comma splices left (probably related to continental European grammar) and there is the general issue of the dialogue being overly simple and bland sometimes; but I am not better most of the time, so I guess my improvements there will be of limited use. I'll playtest every path through the quest in a couple of days, when I'm finally free of this semester. Once again, great job!
Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:02 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Not
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

arvisrend wrote:
BNAM: Result: Choice "Pay it." 8 "Nevermind." 9

Choice 8 should be in brackets: "[Pay it.]" It's not something the player says.

Sounds good.

arvisrend wrote:
Do you have a problem with our language? You just can't seem to understand that... Wait! What's this? Hold on, it's Gilmyn's letter. Where do you have it from? This is a private letter and not meant to be read by stinky denouncers. Give it to me! Oh, wait! You think there's something to it. That was just a meeting between good friends, but probably this is something you can't understand. From now on you keep your nose out of my personal matters!


This could do better stylistically. How about this, "Do you have a problem with our language? You just don't seem to understand that...Wait! What's this?! Hold on, it's Gilmyn's letter. How did you come across this? This is a private letter and not meant to be read by annoying interlopers. Give it to me! Wait, you think there's something to it? That was nothing more than a meeting between good friends, clearly something you're not able to comprehend. From now on you keep your nose out of my personal matters!"

I agree that this statement should have a disposition bump as well.

arvisrend wrote:
So how'd you like it if I wandered around telling everyone you were a thief? It doesn't feel nice, I can tell you. But you're not going to make friends by slandering innocent colleagues. You don't even have a proof. Now get lost! I won't talk to you any longer.


Okay, this next one should go something along the lines of "So how would you like it if I went around telling everyone you were a thief? It doesn't feel nice, I can tell you that much. You won't make many friends by slandering innocent colleagues. You don't have any proof, so get lost. I'm done talking to you!"

Personally, that would look much better, although if you want you could cut off the last sentence of that statement entirely (I'm done talking to you!) Also, I do agree that this should affect disposition.

arvisrend wrote:
Sometimes irritating people comes to unpleasant ends. I find you very irritating, %PCName.

"comes" -> "come".


As long as you change "comes" to "come", that sentence is perfectly fine.

arvisrend wrote:
You never seem to give up, huh? Okay, okay, [sighs] we did it. The company clerk, Tarus, paid us to steal some Bug Musk. He'd have got it later and paid the rest. It was a mistake, but it sounded too good. You can have the Bug Musk, maybe it's not to late confess. Sorry, that I can't give you any evidence though.


Okay, while I'm not sure what context this is used in (haven't actually gone through and play tested this yet,) I think you could get rid of the confession part altogether. Also, for the last sentence, it could simply go, "I'm sorry, but I don't have any other evidence to give you."

But the whole thing could be changed to "You just never give up, do you? Alright, alright, [sighs] we did it. The company clerk, Tarus, paid us to steal some Bug Musk. He'd have gotten it later and paid the rest. It was a mistake, but it was too good to pass up. Here, take the Bug Musk. I'm sorry, but I don't have any other evidence to give you."

Again, I agree with modifying the disposition.

arvisrend wrote:
No, please halt! I'm defeated. Don't kill me! I admit! It was us, who took the Bug Musk. No, I don't have it here, Cajan got it. I swear that's the truth. And it was Tarus who gave us money to take it.


Hmm, you're right, the comma doesn't need to go before "who."

Perhaps something like this? "No, please stop! I'm beaten! Don't kill me! It was us who took the Bug Musk, I admit it, but I don't have it here, Cajan has it. I swear that's the truth. And it was Tarus who gave us money to take it."

The big issue with this right here is the middle sentence "It was us who took the Bug Musk," the issue being that that's not proper English. The correct version would be "It was we who took the Bug Musk," however, the former is more something I figure someone would say out loud when caught in this predicament (perfect grammar be damned.) The problem is that while one is technically right, neither one looks good stylistically. Personally, I'd just change that sentence to "We're the one's who took the Bug Musk, I admit it, but I don't have it here, Cajan has it."

Anyways, I hope this helps Smile

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:57 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

I have figured out the reason why the quest instafailed. It is reproducable and happens with probability 1/24. I guess you have an idea what it is now. ;)

Answer: Script TR_m2_q_19_Lorus2Script, line 209: replace "else" by "elseif ( ( DaysPassed - beginningDay ) > 1 )".

I haven't tested the fix, but I am pretty sure it should work.

I am not surprised at all by the presence of an error in the script; it is rather inevitable with this kind of complex branching logic. I think the only real way to avoid it is to comment the code in complete sentences, which really explain what is supposed to happen, not just piecemeal remarks like you did. Something like this:

Code:
elseif ( controlQ == 2 )
    ; Case: Erdgolf informed the player of the nightly meeting, but it is not yet night.
    ; Behavior: Wait until night. Then, depending on what part of night it is, start the
    ; timer that governs the smugglers' meeting.
   if ( beginningDay == DaysPassed )
      if ( GameHour > 23 )
         Set targetHour to ( GameHour - 23 )
         Set controlQ to 5
      elseif ( GameHour > 19 )
         Set targetHour to ( GameHour + 1 )
         Set controlQ to 4
      endif
   elseif ( ( DaysPassed - beginningDay ) == 1 )
      if ( GameHour < 5 )
         Set targetHour to ( GameHour + 1 )
         Set controlQ to 5    ; not 3 because DaysPassed != beginningDay.
      else    ; If it is the next day and it has already dawned, then the player has
                        ; missed the meeting.
         Set controlQ to 25
      endif
   else    ; If more than 1 day has passed, then the player has missed the meeting.
      Set controlQ to 25
   endif

elseif ( controlQ == 3 )
    ; Case: Erdgolf informed the player of the nightly meeting; it is now between midnight and 6am
    ; the meeting is scheduled on the same day as when Erdgolf informed the player.
    ; Behavior: Inform the player of the smugglers' meeting or of his failure.
   if ( beginningDay == DaysPassed )
      if ( GameHour >= targetHour )
         if ( GameHour < 6 )
            Set controlQ to 6
         else
            Set controlQ to 25 ; If it has already dawned, then the player
                                                   ; has missed the meeting.
         endif
      endif
   else    ; If at least a day has passed, then the player has missed the meeting.
      Set controlQ to 25
   endif

elseif ( controlQ == 4 )
    ; Case: Erdgolf informed the player of the nightly meeting; it is now between 19pm and 23am;
    ; the meeting is scheduled on the same day as when Erdgolf informed the player.
    ; Behavior: Inform the player of the smugglers' meeting or of his failure.
   if ( beginningDay == DaysPassed )
      if ( GameHour >= targetHour )
         Set controlQ to 6
      endif
   elseif ( ( DaysPassed - beginningDay ) == 1 )
      if ( GameHour < 6 )
         Set controlQ to 6
      else    ; If the next day has already dawned, then the player has missed
                        ; the meeting.
         Set controlQ to 25
      endif
   else    ; If more than 1 day has passed, then the player has missed the meeting.
      Set controlQ to 25
   endif

elseif ( controlQ == 5 )
    ; Case: Erdgolf informed the player of the nightly meeting; it is now between midnight and 6am
    ; the meeting is scheduled on the day after Erdgolf informed the player.
    ; Behavior: Inform the player of the smugglers' meeting or of his failure.
    ; *NOTE:* The comment "from 23pm till midnight" was inaccurate since one can get here from
    ; the "elseif ( controlQ == 2 )" clause in two different ways.
   if ( ( DaysPassed - beginningDay ) == 1 )
      if ( GameHour >= targetHour )
         if ( GameHour < 6 )
            Set controlQ to 6
         else     ; If it has already dawned, then the player
                                 ; has missed the meeting.
            Set controlQ to 25
         endif
      endif
   elseif ( ( DaysPassed - beginningDay ) > 1 )    ; If more than 1 day has passed, then the player has missed the meeting.
      Set controlQ to 25
   endif


Also, I'd wish you to explain the semantics of control (not controlQ) and targetHour in comments just as you did with controlQ. This is much easier, of course, and I suspect I understand it already myself, but for the future modders to understand and maintain the script this is extremely helpful.

Minor issues:

BNAM: Result: Choice "I understand the requirements" 1 "What are the requirements?" 2

Put a period at the end of the first choice.

I am still unhappy about dialogue like this:

"You must be joking! Didn't the lighthouse keeper already tell you what's going on? How could you fail to find out more then? Obviously you're not apt for an East Empire Company employment after all. You're fired!"

and this:

"Even Worse! That means the sailors were innocent citizens. This is a very serious misbehavior. One that wouldn't go unpunished normally, but it seems that this assignment needs to be extended somewhat, %PCName."

but I must say I don't know how to improve it much. I fear the guy doesn't come across serious enough in these replies. I hope that Why or Not can improve the style once I've done reviewing the gameplay part.

Can you reupload your file with fixes for everything Not and me have brought up in the last few posts (save the things you don't know how to fix, if such exist)? Thanks a lot!
Post Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Update

File with fixes
Post Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:10 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I've removed most of the older WIP files at the top, to reduce the chances of someone accidentally downloading the wrong one Smile (Also, every little bit of space saved on the server helps!) Awesome work so far on this, 6plus!
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

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Post Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:03 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Thanks for the update, 6plus!

I guess I'll just drop this here, since I haven't had any success debugging it for 2 days. Something about the meeting timer is still wrong. Wait until 11pm. Persuade Erdgolf to tell you about the meeting. Then wait for 1 hour, so it's now midnight. Then wait for another 11 hours, so it's now 11am. Then wait as much as you wish; nothing ever happens, no meeting, no failure journal. I have no idea what is happening here and I fear that my "fix" is part of the problem... :(

EDIT: Also, this comment here:
Code:
elseif ( controlQ == 5 )                           ;The player talked between 23pm and 0am to Erdgolf

isn't completely correct. One can also get to controlQ == 5 from controlQ == 2.
Post Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Attached is a fixed version, with the bug defeated (finally) and the comments improved (my previous version had a subtle error as well).

Quoting MSFD:

MSFD wrote:
Be careful using a function in a conditional ('If' statement); simple functions seem to be OK, but ones with numeric parameters don't seem to be reliable.


In other words, "elseif ( ( a - b ) > 1 )" (with a and b being variables) doesn't generally work (though sometimes it might do). It's not easy to write a script engine with a bucket over one's head...

I'll try to get this script review finished soon. That said, I don't expect to find any more mistakes in that. Someone else should review the dialogue. Dialogue and script review can be done in parallel, no need to wait for me here!



TR_q2-19-Imp_arvis_10.esp
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 Filename:  TR_q2-19-Imp_arvis_10.esp
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Post Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:12 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Before you get mad at me, arvis, keep in mind that it's christmas times...

I have completely rewritten that part of the script which bugged us so much. Eek
I think it works quite stable (don't worry your fix is implemented) and the code is way more simple (maybe the logic behind it is more abstract now...).

I've already tested all scenarios that I could come up with and I only found one little issue:
If you talk to Erdgolf between 11pm and midnight, then rest for 1 hour you should get informed of the meeting right after the sleep window closes. That doesn't happen, you (a) have to rest for 1 additional hour or (b) wait between 1 and 120 sec, then you will get informed normally.

However the reason for this is some engine bug: if you rest for 1 hour at e.g. half past 11pm, you don't rest until half past 0am, instead you rest until exactly midnight, only half an hour...
Post Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

SCRIPTING REVIEW DONE. This is not to say I've checked every single path through the quests, but I've read through the tes3cmd dump and checked that everything makes sense and avoids obvious errors. Some minor stuff could be wrong. See the below KNOWN ISSUES for one thing I'm not really daring to fix yet.

Don't worry about the last-minute code rewrite; I was contemplating doing something similar myself. Improvements are always good.

Please keep in mind that line numbers in code are extremely volatile ;)

The numbering of the uploaded files is messed up, so I'd advise you to number them manually. When you submit a file named x.esp, the forum looks for the smallest positive integer n such that xn.esp is not yet on the list, and renames your file like that. Now that Haplo removed the files TR_q2-19-Imp_6plus_1.esp to TR_q2-19-Imp_6plus_7.esp, the smallest such n again is 1, and your new file ends up called TR_q2-19-Imp_6plus_1.esp. Anyway it's too late now; I'm just letting you know for your next claim.

I simplified TR_m2_q_19_SjorvanScript.

I've lowered Cajan's fight value to 30 since 50 means "Will attack if they hate you (disposition at 0)" according to UESP. (We must avoid the player killing him before the quest at all costs.) In turn, annoying him now raises his fight value by 8 rather than 5. Likewise for Kiliban.

Replaced "dwemer pipes" by "pipes" in one of the letters. Smugglers shouldn't be that open about these things unless it's really necessary.

In the other letter, capitalized "Dwemer".

One very minor issue:

Code:
      if ( dayDelay == 1 )
         if ( GameHour >= 6 )      ;The player must watch the meeting until dawn after talking to Erdgolf, after dawn the player must have failed the quest
            Set controlQ to 25
         endif
      elseif ( dayDelay > 1 )      ;If even more time has passed (more than one day) the quest is failed too
         Set controlQ to 25
      endif



If the player started the quest at (say) 4:59 AM, the timeframe he has for waking up from a 1-hour rest (or, rather, for going to rest, because resting automatically adds 1 hour) is 5:59 AM till 6:00 AM, which is a bit short. I've extended the deadline to 7.

"1 Septims per piece" should be "1 Septim per piece". I don't think the EEC is using golems to do their accounting.

Added "join the East Empire Company" replies for the case the player does not meet the requirements.

The crew of the Reckless Maiden doesn't respond to "discrepancies" at stage 20 (i. e., before talking to Tarus). Changing this breaks some logic (though it doesn't break the quest), so I'm changing the quest instructions to "talk to Tarus first".

Moddisposition results for murder are now heavier (no more -5).

NPCs don't usually say "Telvanni Bug Musk" when it's not the first time they're mentioning it to the player. "Musk" is perfectly enough.

One could speak to Lorus after fighting Kiliban but before getting the musk from Cajan. Lorus would talk as if the player had already retrieved the musk. I've fixed this; you can still get Lorus' old reply if you have 4 bug musk with you.

If you spoke to Melia instead of Lorus in the same situation, you would get into a dialogue loop. Fixed.

If you talked to Erville about the cost estimate (quest Lorus0) without being in the EEC, then the messenger from Solstheim arrived, and then you talked to Lorus about the cost estimate (after joining the EEC), you got (now illogical) "Ah, I see" reply. Fixed.

For some reason, the "Merro Galvix" topic reply
I think I saw an Imperial around town last week. Asking about flin or something. Anyway, he didn't find what he was looking for so he left. No idea where he is now.
was conditioned to quest stage 20, which made it completely useless. Fixed.

Melia's replies in the "two sailors" topic weren't always logical.

Journal TR_m2_eec_lorus1 45: replaced "sailors" by "two sailors" to not suggest attacking the captain.

I rewrote some journal entries of the Lorus1 quest for stylistic reasons. For example:
before: I fought Kiliban Samarys, and he admitted that he and Cajan had stolen the Telvanni Bug Musk. He claimed that the clerk Tarus Meritorus paid them to do it, although he has no proof. He says Cajan has the Bug Musk.
after: Once I had loosened his tongue by force, Kiliban Samarys admitted that he and Cajan had stolen the Telvanni Bug Musk. He further claimed that Tarus Meritorus, the clerk at the warehouse, paid them to do it, although he has no proof to offer. Ostensibly, Cajan now has the Bug Musk.

Still this is just a scripting review and I'll have to leave the rest of the dialogue to someone more competent than myself.

KNOWN ISSUES:

Get the Lorus1 quest, talk to Melia but don't talk to Tarus about "discrepancies", kill Cajan, loot his corpse for the musk, then talk to Tarus. He speaks like you have already accused him of stealing the musk, although you haven't. Do we want to fix this? The easiest way is probably to add an "accused" variable to Tarus (or actually use his unused controlQ for that). Do we want that?

If we do so, we could make the sailors confrontable on stage 20 (i. e., before confronting Tarus) as well. This is another thing that makes much sense to add, because why the fuck can't one accuse the sailors before accusing Tarus? Unfortunately this would need some more contingency work, since some greetings and responses by Tarus take it for granted that if one has accused the sailors, one must have accused Tarus as well.

MERGE INSTRUCTION:

ex_de_ship_trapdoor Helnim, Docks (25,0) 207307 7760 150
"This trapdoor shouldn't be locked."

in_c_door_wood_square Helnim, Warehouse 3795 6720 16912
"Should be set to key TR_m2_q_19_EECWarehouseKey."

in_c_door_wood_square Helnim, Warehouse 3661 6464 16912
"Should be set to key TR_m2_q_19_EECWarehouseKey."

in_c_door_wood_square Helnim, Warehouse 3085 6642 16912
"Should be set to key TR_m2_q_19_EECWarehouseKey."

Check that the references to the smuggler crate are still intact (recompile scripts?).

Check that NPCs have been correctly merged and have the correct scripts.

Check that the references to these NPCs are not duplicated.

Check that tr_m2_ao_flingalore journal entries are not duplicated.

Check that "cargo of Flin" reply "Yes, I was assigned the task of locating a ship [...]" correctly ends up between "Suit yourself." and "Do you want to help [...]".



TR_q2-19-Imp_arvis_12.esp
 Description:
Script-reviewed & cleaned version, see above for known issues and merge instructions

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Post Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I'd prefer if "bug musk" were used instead of just "musk". The latter can also mean a scent rather than a specific perfume, which may lead to unnecessary confusion. I seem to recall seeing bug musk used often in vanilla anyway.

Also, I removed files 8 and 9 from the top of the claim so now the ordering is "proper" again.

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Post Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:39 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



arvisrend wrote:
Get the Lorus1 quest, talk to Melia but don't talk to Tarus about "discrepancies", kill Cajan, loot his corpse for the musk, then talk to Tarus. He speaks like you have already accused him of stealing the musk, although you haven't.

I couldn't reproduce that, what exactly did you do?

arvisrend wrote:
If we do so, we could make the sailors confrontable on stage 20 (i. e., before confronting Tarus) as well. This is another thing that makes much sense to add, because why the fuck can't one accuse the sailors before accusing Tarus? Unfortunately this would need some more contingency work, since some greetings and responses by Tarus take it for granted that if one has accused the sailors, one must have accused Tarus as well.

Simple solution: Melia doesn't give the player any information about the two sailors, but tells the player to ask Tarus.
Only existing dialogue needs to be changed.
Post Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:21 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

6plus wrote:
arvisrend wrote:
Get the Lorus1 quest, talk to Melia but don't talk to Tarus about "discrepancies", kill Cajan, loot his corpse for the musk, then talk to Tarus. He speaks like you have already accused him of stealing the musk, although you haven't.

I couldn't reproduce that, what exactly did you do?


Oops, I don't know what I've been thinking. This "bug" doesn't exist. It was too late at night...

6plus wrote:
arvisrend wrote:
If we do so, we could make the sailors confrontable on stage 20 (i. e., before confronting Tarus) as well. This is another thing that makes much sense to add, because why the fuck can't one accuse the sailors before accusing Tarus? Unfortunately this would need some more contingency work, since some greetings and responses by Tarus take it for granted that if one has accused the sailors, one must have accused Tarus as well.

Simple solution: Melia doesn't give the player any information about the two sailors, but tells the player to ask Tarus.
Only existing dialogue needs to be changed.


Good idea!

Something else that IMHO should be fixed, though it's debatable (comments please): In the designs for the Lorus1 quest, Tarus (a clerk at the EEC warehouse) was paid by two sailors to keep an eye shut while they were stealing bug musk from his warehouse. You changed this to "Tarus paid two sailors to steal bug musk from his warehouse", which does not make much sense on its own. Apparently the idea was that the sailors are part of a ring of smugglers who siphon off the company's property (the sailors steal the stuff and hand it over to someone else, meanwhile Tarus "corrects" the paperwork), but this is never told or otherwise clarified ingame. The sailors don't even disappear (or get arrested) when the Lorus2 quest is finished. Moreover, there is no way one can get the sailors to tell one whom they hand over the stolen stuff to. Should this scheme be clarified or do we assume the player will connect the dots himself?
Post Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



arvisrend wrote:
Something else that IMHO should be fixed, though it's debatable (comments please): In the designs for the Lorus1 quest, Tarus (a clerk at the EEC warehouse) was paid by two sailors to keep an eye shut while they were stealing bug musk from his warehouse. You changed this to "Tarus paid two sailors to steal bug musk from his warehouse", which does not make much sense on its own. Apparently the idea was that the sailors are part of a ring of smugglers who siphon off the company's property (the sailors steal the stuff and hand it over to someone else, meanwhile Tarus "corrects" the paperwork), but this is never told or otherwise clarified ingame. The sailors don't even disappear (or get arrested) when the Lorus2 quest is finished. Moreover, there is no way one can get the sailors to tell one whom they hand over the stolen stuff to. Should this scheme be clarified or do we assume the player will connect the dots himself?

I felt it's somehow weird that the sailors pay Tarus, and despite the obvious failure of their last operation and Tarus' status as little cog he is invited to the lighthouse where the stolen stuff is stored (temporarily).

IMHO it makes more sense if Tarus is paid by the smugglers to steal stuff from the warehouse and cover up the traces (didn't he fake the figures), and the sailors are the little cogs who he uses to do the dirty work.
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