q1-79-Tel

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q1-79-Tel

Post by Why »

Claim type: Quest
Claim ID: TR_q1-79-Tel (#2131)
Faction: Telvanni
Parent claim: TR_1-9-Tel (#25)
Claimed by: Parted User
Status: Not Available (Progress: 100%)
Location: (5457, 2096)
Files: TR_q1-79-Tel_Beave_1.esp; TR_q1-79-Tel_Beave_2.esp; TR_q1-79-Tel_Beave_3.esp

---

Claim has been completed, is awaiting Telvanni line redesign before review.

Telvanni Master Quest Questline for Master Vaerin.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Latest version of the quest line. Please comment.
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Last edited by MMMowSkwoz on Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Good. Unless anyone else has comments, I think this is essentially ready to be approved for claiming?
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Post by theviking »

Awesome, perfect length and it fits Vaerin.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

File updated. A very minor modification to accommodate a Tel Mothrivra misc quest: The temple envoy in the first quest is now travelling to the Parliament of Bugs to discuss the Tel Mothrivra situation, rather than travelling to Tel Mothrivra to inspect it.
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Post by blackbird »

I was thinking that if the player kills the priest, he's going to be expelled from the temple (if s/he has joined them). If the the apprentice of Omothran kills the apprentice, the player won't be expelled from the temple.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

The player cannot do this questline if they are a member of the Temple, so it shouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure what apprentices you mean - can you elaborate?
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Post by blackbird »

I thought the apprentice of Dralothas Omothran was going to assassinate the priest. But I'v seen he's not going to assassinate him.
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Post by Beave »

I would like to claim either this quest line or LT's quest line, or both consecutively. I'm just gonna go ahead and claim this one since I've become familiar with Tel Mothrivra, but if for some reason the other quest line needs to be done first, that's fine too.
In any case, I've read both outlines, so I think I understand what's going on. Telvanni politics are rather intriguing.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

I would rather not grant this to you immediately (although this has nothing to do with you - I am sure you could handle this claim just fine). And yes, it would be best that, if you work on this, you do Telsaran's simultaneously.

I will let you know what the situation is with this claim as soon as I can. Apologies for the delay.
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Post by Beave »

It's been a month. I'm not getting impatient or anything, but is there any news?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

I wish there was. At present, I will grant this to you, but you'll be in a slightly funny situation with this claim. As I said, it is very unclear right now what is going to be going on with House Telvanni, and it's possible that in the end of things only parts of this claim, or none, might be needed. Or all of it might. I can't say. If you are still willing to go ahead, you can begin work on this, but if you do you will have to treat it as if all of it will be used. Unfortunately I can't guarantee that.

I'm really sorry for the lack of clarity here: if there was more movement in Design this would not be a problem because there would be other things on the table, but I'm both very busy, and poor at designing things, and there is no dedicated 'design team' with the exception of Paw-Prints, so this is how things stand.
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Post by Beave »

Ok, we have a problem. The PDFs from this claim and the other one I have claimed are both gone, I assume because of a cleaning of core files or something like that. Unless MowSkowz still has them, I won't be getting any work done.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Can you see this 'un?
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Post by Beave »

Alright, we're good. Thanks, MowSkowz. Now I can get to work.
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Post by Beave »

Now that I've actually started work on this, I have a couple of questions:

1. Is there any specific dialogue topic you want me to use for the quests? I tried looking at quest claims for the other Telvanni rulers and either I couldn't download them or they were out of date with the TR_Mainland merge. For now I'm just going to use 'work'.

2. Would it be easier for me to write both quests in the same file? I know it would be for me as the quester but I'm not sure if that'll work well with the claim system.

3. With Vaerin not liking the Temple and all, and I saw somewhere that he won't even talk to Temple members, should I just add a greeting for Temple members that gives the scarlet 'Goodbye'?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

1: I don't believe there is a set topic. Don't use "work", that's unpleasantly generic for Master quests. And for Telvanni, if you want/need something so generic, go with "chores".

2: Yes, it would be a lot better to use the same file.

3: Don't give a Goodbye just yet. Leave a comment for where one could go in the relevant results box, but for now I'd rather not just slam that door without knowing how badly it would screw things.
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Post by Beave »

I've finished TR_m2_HT_Va3, and am currently working on Va4.

For Va3, I set it up so that the bandit is a higher level than the envoy entourage, so that he should (hopefully) survive to tell the PC that he knows he was ordered to be killed just by innate sense.

I found it odd that the design wanted to put the envoy on the south road instead of the north, since north is towards PT while south just goes to Alt Bosara :| . True, the north road is a bit more crowded, but that could be mended. I'll wait for peer input before changing anything.

Regarding Va4, I found the thread and read through it. Based on that I'm going to assume the Daedric ruin near Verulas Pass is the cult HQ, and for the name I'm going to use a generated one as I didn't find any names mentioned in the thread. Sound good?

EDIT: Another question regarding Va4, why should Vaerin be pleased that the Boethian Cult isn't afraid of killing Temple members if no such act happens during the quest? The contact teleports himself to safety as soon as the battle starts :| .
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Beave wrote:For Va3, I set it up so that the bandit is a higher level than the envoy entourage, so that he should (hopefully) survive to tell the PC that he knows he was ordered to be killed just by innate sense.
Sounds good.
Beave wrote:I found it odd that the design wanted to put the envoy on the south road instead of the north, since north is towards PT while south just goes to Alt Bosara :| . True, the north road is a bit more crowded, but that could be mended. I'll wait for peer input before changing anything.
The envoy is travelling north along the coast from Necrom. They could be anywhere along that road. I just said south of Tel Mothrivra because, as you said, it's less crowded.
Beave wrote:Regarding Va4, I found the thread and read through it. Based on that I'm going to assume the Daedric ruin near Verulas Pass is the cult HQ, and for the name I'm going to use a generated one as I didn't find any names mentioned in the thread. Sound good?
Since Boethian Cult base hasn't been decided yet (correct me if I'm wrong there), that sounds reasonable to me.
Beave wrote:EDIT: Another question regarding Va4, why should Vaerin be pleased that the Boethian Cult isn't afraid of killing Temple members if no such act happens during the quest? The contact teleports himself to safety as soon as the battle starts :| .
As far as anyone knows, it was the Boethian cult who killed them. It certainly wasn't the player (as an upstanding Telvanni faction member). The Temple will certainly know they sent agents after the Boethian cultists and now all their agents are dead. Maybe add in a dialogue line for Vaerin hinting that he is encouraging all the rumours about the Boethian Cult causing trouble? He'll ensure that the murders are attributed to them.
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Post by Beave »

Oh, okay. Yeah, I had considered them perhaps coming from Necrom but it didn't seem completely logical, but I'll trust your judgement. Spread more rumors, eh? I must say, Master Vaerin is becoming quite adept at deceiving the public :P .
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Post by Why »

Beave wrote:Spread more rumors, eh? I must say, Master Vaerin is becoming quite adept at deceiving the public :P .
I must say, I like that. Could be a special treat of his, just like clever plotting is Ratha's thing. Anxious to see what you've made! (but my computer is broken, so don't post a WIP just for my sake)
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Post by Beave »

Thanks, I'm glad to see someone excited to look at my work.

So... anyone have any ideas for Boethian cult objects to put in Hlethran's house? As far as I know there is know book in the CS that mentions anything about standard Boethian cultist objects. I'm thinking perhaps a Daedra heart, a forged letter from a cultist, and perhaps a book listing rules and what-not of the Boethian cult? I would specifically write them out, nor would that be necessary - it would just be something in brackets.

EDIT: Actually, forget the book of rules. That might be a bit much.

Another thing: I'm assuming that if the PC is seen at all in Marog while escorting Hlethran, the quest is failed. How should I go about that? I'm trying to use one global script, but I don't see how I can check to see if ANYONE, rather than a specific NPC, sees the PC, unless perhaps I do a check for every NPC in Marog. The alternative would be to give every Marog NPC a new script with the added check, meaning I would have to replace the guards with unique ones.

Why, you're doing the Marog misc. quests, right? How do you think these would go with your quest file?
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Post by Beave »

Keeping in mind everything from my previous post, I have written all of "Spreading the Fear". It isn't fully functional, and I haven't even decided what I'm going to do with checking for detection (GetDectected isn't going to help because it's not like the PC is going to sneak).

The source of my problems right now is this line of code:

Code: Select all

set "TR_m2_q_79_Global".rumorCounter to ( "TR_m2_q_79_Global".rumorCounter + 1 )
So I'm referencing a variable from a global script and setting it to that same variable + 1. I think the variable-reference in the operation is the problem. Can anyone confirm this or perhaps suggest a solution?
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Post by Why »

I fear I can't be of much help to you at the moment, I can't even open .pdf files. I don't see why you can't use GetDetected though, as far as I know it should do exactly what you need, return 1 if anyone is detecting the player, be it while sneaking or not. Also it probably excludes followers, but I'm not entirely sure of that. Anyway, coupled with a cell check it should work, I presume. Then again, I don't know the exact details of what you're working on right now. I'll take a look at the quest outline tomorrow. I wish I could run some tests :(

Do keep in mind that both GetDetected and GetLOS are described as "slow" functions, they shouldn't be called every frame. At least, that's what the description states, I've never encountered any lag with continuous checks, but I have (or had, until it broke) a rather advanced system. Still, running GetLOS on all Marog NPCs might be a big performance hit.

Should you really need to run a script on all seperate NPCs I'd suggest you use a new targeted script instead of altering the existing local scripts, that should ensure our files don't conflict. Though iirc the only local script I altered so far is Jeela's and I don't think I'll need to edit more local scripts so you might get away with it ;) As for replacing guards, go ahead, I don't use them.

About the code, yes, I think the problem is that you actually call the value of that variable from the other script. Perhaps create a global variable instead?
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Post by Beave »

Global variables aren't really allowed unless it's something big like the main quest, I suppose. Although a global variable would work for sure.

Actually (I'm sorry, I think I said this wrong previously) GetLOS was what I was originally planning to use, but I couldn't figure out a simple way of getting EVERY NPC in Marog to do this check with one small block of code. Later on I decided that I could do a GetLOS check for every NPC in a global script, but for the time being I just left it out so I could test everything else. That's probably what I'll do, and then I'll add a frame counter so that it runs every 20 frames or so.

EDIT: Now that I looked up what a targeted script is, that sounds like a better idea.

Thanks for your input, I'll post a WIP once I've finished Vaerin's line so that you may test to your heart's consent.
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Post by Why »

I read the quest outlines, why don't you just let the player convince Hlethran to meet him outside of town at a certain hour the next day?

I'm thinking the following - player goes to Hlethran, either bribes him or convinces him through a clever dialogue choice menu (make up some story why he really needs to be there and needs to keep it secret to the rest of the town) to meet him outside of town (in a few hours, the next day, at midnight, whatever). Meeting outside town, the player needs to again convince Hlethran to follow him. This should be pretty hard, Hlethran should be suspicious, if convincing fails Hlethran will attack the player and should be CommandHumanoided. Then the player takes Hlethran to the boatman. If the player kills Hlethran outside town, the townsfolk will find out he has been killed and will be suspicious of the player, though the player can still spread rumors about the Boethian cult. Vaerin will be less pleased but the quest should still be finished.

How does that sound? It eliminates the need of escorting Hlethran out of Marog, and it still looks plausible and realistic to me.

Edit: also, that would require you to script Hlethran so that when you have convinced him to follow you and you lead him back into Marog (GetPos x <= ...) he stops following you and forcegreets, asking you why you're going back to the town.
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Post by Beave »

Maybe. It doesn't really make sense to me for Hlethran to sporadically attack the player once they've met outside of Marog... well, I think I see what you mean. The really hard part is convincing Hlethran to meet the player, then once they do meet Hlethran may attack out of fear(?), which would end up with his death, furthermore leading to the alternative quest ending. Okay, I think that sounds reasonable. We'll see what BC and MowSkowz have to say, if they have anything. In the mean-time I will go ahead and implement this plan.
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Post by Why »

Yeah, it's probably best if you just go ahead and implement something, to me it just sounds weird to escort the guy out of town and risk detection when you can just convince him to meet you there.

The "attacking the player" part is just something I made up, if it doesn't fit in the rest of the quest don't do it :)
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Yep, this is fine by me. Sounds more feasible.
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Post by Beave »

When I declare a target script on multiple NPCs, are the variables kept independent of each other?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

yep
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Post by Beave »

Doesn't matter; you can't run more than one instance of a target script.

At this point I don't know how this rumor system is going to be done without a global variable, because I'm out of ideas. I even considered having four dialogue responses that puts a variable through stages until it reaches 4, but that too would require a global. Unless someone can think of some alternative to simply telling people a rumor, this quest won't be making any progress.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Beave wrote:I even considered having four dialogue responses that puts a variable through stages until it reaches 4, but that too would require a global.
This one sounds good to me. There's no problem with using a global variable if there's no other reasonable way to implement it. We only preferred to keep them to a minimum just because it makes things easier to keep track of.
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Post by Beave »

If I end up using a global variable, I doubt the 4 entries will be necessary.

In any case, I have begun work on Va6. My only question currently should I write dialogue for that lady in the Tel Mothrivra Tower entrance area? She says 'you need permission from me to see Omothran', so would this be where I come in?
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Post by Haplo »

Beave wrote: In any case, I have begun work on Va6.
:o The last one?
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Beave wrote:In any case, I have begun work on Va6. My only question currently should I write dialogue for that lady in the Tel Mothrivra Tower entrance area? She says 'you need permission from me to see Omothran', so would this be where I come in?
I'm not sure who put that in. I don't think she actually does anything to stop you seeing him, does she?
Anyway, yes. On this quest you have permission to see Omothran. Either a letter if you feel like it, or a dialogue entry saying "...Vaerin sent word..." I guess.
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Post by Beave »

Haplo wrote: :o The last one?
Yes, the last one. For this claim, that is.

The thing with seeing Omothran is that the door leading into the central tower area is lock-level 90. But if you're a good lock-picker you can just break in while the guard's in another room, and no one will be the wiser. I'll just put in dialogue.

I also have implemented Dralor's 'bounding'. Performing commands with OnActivate didn't work well, so now he gets bound with bracers as soon as you knock him out. After that you take him up to a third guard I've placed for the occasion, who will handle all of the announcing and what-not, then tell you when to do the execution.

[Progresses further.]

Okay, so I'm almost finished with Va6. I need to know: how can you override the execution being reported as a crime?
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Beave wrote:Okay, so I'm almost finished with Va6. I need to know: how can you override the execution being reported as a crime?
Just an idea, but can you check record the player's crime level with GetPCCrimeLevel and then use SetPCCrimeLevel to set it back to the previous value if the player is attacking Llothis? Obviously this would require careful checking so the player couldn't just randomly get away with committing a load of crimes during that section of the quest.

Alternatively, set Llothis to be aggressive (so it's not a crime) but paralyse him so it looks like he's just taking it. You might have to find a way of keeping him quiet too.
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Post by Beave »

What if I just set everyone's alarm to 0 during the execution? If necessary I can make modifications to the claim for this town's misc quests.

EDIT: Another question - if I set the alarm of the generic "TR_telv_guard" will that set both references or just one?
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Post by Beave »

The paranoia of losing this file has hit, so now I upload. All four of Vaerin's quests are functional, sort of. I just threw in the rumor global and implemented it without testing (because I'm tired). In the last quest, I'm not completely sure why but the journal update doesn't always occur after executing Llothis Dralor, but when it does, someone's alarm goes off (I set everyone's alarm to 0 like I said before, and I also replaced the two generic guards with ones I made).

So - BC, MowSkowz, Why, everyone else, have fun.
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