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FCG discussion thread

Post by Myzel »

This is a thread where ideas for future FCG topics can be discussed.
In this thread we can:
- post ideas for future FCG topics
- discuss the mission statements for future FCG's
- discuss the results of finished or running FCG's


Dres Architecture functional art part 2
This is the second round of functional sketches for Dres architecture. Once again we will stay close to Turelio’s designs.

Upper Class Buildings
Upper class buildings will not be modular. They should be similar in basic shape and look to the regular buildings, but with more elaborate floor plans. They shouldn't be too large or complicated of course. We need about 6-10 different designs for different manors to place in cities, and also some sketches for the tall and narrow tower homes as seen on top of the cantons in [url=http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/7979/drescantonlineup1copyav7.jpg]this image[/url].

Other unique buildings
Other buildings that need functional designs:
- Council hall. [url=http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9748/drescouncilhouse1.jpg]Turelio’s concept[/url]. I wouldn't say it's mandatory to stick with this one, but it is a good design.
- Temple. Should be similar to velothi temples but fitting with the Dres architecture style.
- Cantons. The cantons don’t have to be modular in my opinion. In any case, this shouldn’t be a concern of the artist. Functional sketches can easily be cut to pieces by modelers to make them modular. Of Turelio’s cantons, I like [url=http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/8040/drescanton1.jpg]this[/url] and [url=http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/8708/drescanton2.jpg]this[/url], and cantons 1 and 3 of [url=http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/7979/drescantonlineup1copyav7.jpg]the lineup[/url]. But we probably don't need them all. Discuss this please.


Telvanni Dust Adepts
I’d like to make an FCG for them, to produce an overall style for the faction, some designs for robes, misc. objects, interiors, etc. Anything else that could be needed? I’d like a ‘lore-buff’ to write a brief lore explanation on the group, if any consensus on such things has been reached.

Deshaan Plains
I like the idea Sload and Ada had about this region.

"The Deshaan are dry and brown, arid without ash. Their most defining feature is the salt flats, small pits of salt dotted across the plains, much like the lava in Molag Amur was."

I think that the color scheme for the region should predominantly feature pale brown and white. Flowers could be any color as long as they are not bright. We could also just leave this to artists.
We need atmospheric drawings and concepts for flora, the salt pits themselves and perhaps rock formations.
Last edited by Myzel on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Sload »

mushrooms
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Post by Myzel »

Morrowind creature FCG

I know, it's about time this is organized properly.
The creature thread is a mess, so I will formulate a clearer mission statement here. We need new creatures that fit with the original wildlife of morrowind in style and feeling. They will almost certainly be anthropods or reptilian creatures. We also need to have several existing TR creatures redesigned. Already produced concepts will be added to this post.

requested redesigns of existing TR creatures:

- Swamp Troll
[url=http://img232.imageshack.us/i/swamptroll2.jpg/][img]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/875/swamptroll2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

- Vermai

- Cephalopod

New creatures requested:

- Long-legged Velk
[url=http://img709.imageshack.us/i/longleggedvelknectardri.png/][img]http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7369/longleggedvelknectardri.th.png[/img][/url][url=http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4310/morrowindcritter2.jpg][img]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4310/morrowindcritter2.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img187.imageshack.us/i/velk1.png/][img]http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2487/velk1.th.png[/img][/url]

- Tiger Guar (a retexture probably)

- Nix Mount
[url=http://img138.imageshack.us/i/nixhoundmountcopy2.png/][img]http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3103/nixhoundmountcopy2.th.png[/img][/url][url=http://img168.imageshack.us/i/nixmountcopy.png/][img]http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6329/nixmountcopy.th.png[/img][/url]

- Possibly some other Nix creatures. But don't overdo it.


Other related concepts:
[url=http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9092/morrowindcreaturecolor2.jpg][img]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9092/morrowindcreaturecolor2.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9381/morrowindcreaturecolor.jpg][img]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9381/morrowindcreaturecolor.th.jpg[/img][/url]


I will post this tomorrow if there are no objections or suggestions.
Edit: Just to make it clear, this is just a cleanup of the creature thread. These aren't actually new requests.
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Post by Sload »

we need concepts for ash swamps, which is what the un-figured-out region on map 5 will be. Dead trees, mostly, but if anyone has any other ideas.
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Post by Myzel »

I suppose 'ash swamp' would be a bog of volcanic sludge or something? Perhaps a once green and wet region that has suffered under ashfall? Not really any ideas coming to me right now.
If we don't have any clear views, it may help to let artists present their own ideas.

How much of a priority is this compared to the other topics?
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Post by Sload »

probably higher than other regions.
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Post by Myzel »

Next up: FCG for Ash Swamp and mushroom wood

Mission statement:
Two exterior area's that are to be made soon lack any identity of their own, and need some new statics or other ideas to make them stand out. These areas will be:
- Othreleth Woods, a mushroom forest
- A still unnamed Ash Swamp

Othreleth Woods:
We need concepts for new types of mushroom trees and other fitting flora. Try to find new ground away from the emperor parasols of the original game. Atmospheric art is welcome, but only if you have a specific and interesting idea to share. Otherwise, the concept of a mushroom forest is pretty self-explanatory.

Ash swamp
No decisions have been made on what an ash swamp is or looks like, except that it is probably rather dead due to ashfall. Atmospheric concept art is welcome to envision the place, as well as concepts for specific statics.


((If there are any objections or suggestions, please post them here.))
Last edited by Myzel on Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sload »

Mushroom Forest: Try to find new ground away from the emperor parasols of the original game
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Post by Tyrion »

Mushroom forest, instead of trees, mushrooms... there are a few mushroom tree statics from beth's stuff that aren't just giant mushrooms. I'm talking about mushroom trees that actually branch out different ways instead of just being one huge oversized whole. That could nicely reproduce a "forest" effect with the branches, maybe with a few of the old emperor parasols thrown in to help create an impression of a canopy. Although we'll need more than the two or three mushroom trees already available I think. A couple more couldn't hurt.
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Post by Katze »

Tangled root systems at the bases of some of the mushroom trees big enough to walk amongst would be quite cool. Not sure if this might evoke Shivering Isles a little too much, though.
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Post by Sload »

you guys realize this isnt the thread right? this is the thread about the thread
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Post by Haplo »

Something to replace the daedric bat. Preferably a ground-based creature.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

We don't need new Daedra. They add nothing to Morrowind. Just scrapping the Bat is a lot more convenient, and guarantees no dubious quality Daedra.
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Post by Haplo »

Didn't say it had to be a daedra. But it would be nice to have something official in the event we have the opportunity to get new creatures. In that event, we should use them to replace faulty ones first. It's better to have more awesome unique creatures than fewer ones.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Cool, sure. Though, the Velk and Tigerguar (already kinda under planning) and such like are far more needed if we have the skills - Daedra already have a lot of variety, wheras 'Morrowind fauna' have only 4 options.
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Post by Myzel »

I will put up the mushroom & ash FCG in one or two days. If there are any more suggestions or objections, let them be known asap.

About the creatures: We should probably discuss the designs already submitted and whether or not we want to do something with them. Especially in the case of the velk, we can wait endlessly for someone to draw something that comes close to what Sload, BC or Ada have in mind (which probably are three different things as well). Honestly, I think that's not something you should expect from concept artists. I feel we won't be getting any new velk concepts that will be better than the designs we have now.

So please post thoughts regarding the current designs in the creature thread. Good for use or not, and why?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

I don't like either of the Nixmounts. Nalin's is too like a horse, Lighter's is too big and not like a Nix-hound. In both cases, it looks like 'some other animal' with a nix-hound paint-job. We need something that looks like a logical progession from a Nix, which incidentally can be used as a mount, not a mount which incidentally has a nix hound's face.

The only Velk I like is your one (the amalgamation of yours and Lighter's), because it looks immediately 'like a nix hound' (thanks to the carapace) yet is completely different. Yours is also the one that has nice angular shapes that would translate well into a Morrowind model. And I am in love with the skull-mask.

Lighter's does not fit stylistically with any other Morrowind creature. Nalin's is the same, but even more so.

The 'original velk' is obsolete given your new one.

But this is all opinion stuff. But that's what you wanted, right?
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Post by blackbird »

I wonder how much plants will grow in the 'ashridden swamps'. Thee won't be many and maybe we could use the trama shrub and the firefern. There could/should be a plant living only near the swamps or in the swamps and resistant to ash. Something like an ampoule pod.
I don't know what you would think of some kind of ash resistent ferns.

Here is something I found on the internet. I'm not sure how useful it will be:
http://www.killerplants.com/media/images/goodies/desktops/kp/kpPopAshSwamp1280.jpg
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Post by Myzel »

@BC: I mostly agree with you on the Velk. Lighter's design is really sexy, but will probably not translate well into a model for morrowind. I don't really agree on the 'nixmount'. You say that it looks not enough like a nix hound. I think Lighter's original design looks rather a lot like one, with a slightly bulkier build. (Nalin just changed it to make it look more like a horse.) I agree that the dinosaur is too big, but it really does look like a strange combination of a reptile and an insect. Isn't that what a nix hound is all about? I don't see what you want here.

@Blackbird: Suggestions like these should probably go into the FCG itself once I post it. This thread is for providing ideas for FCG topics, discussion about the mission statement for FCG's and discussion about the results of FCG's.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

With nixmounts, the problem is that the horse one looks like a horse with a nix-hound's head stuck on it. It looks mammalian, and loses the signature nix-hound hunch. The dinosaur one's proportions are slightly odd, and again, it doesn't look like a nix-hound 'evolution', it looks like an iguanadon with a nix-hound head stuck on the front. The length is also impractical for an in-game creature.

Again, this is all opinionated, and if anyone disagrees, counts for no more than their opinion. But again, you asked for opinion.


Personally I'm not the greatest fan of the nix-mount idea in the first place, so maybe that doesn't help either.
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Post by Myzel »

I think we've got enough concepts for the ash swamp to make an object claim for it.

Atmospheric: Prevailing colors should be tones of grey. Virtually no color in the ash swamp.
[url=http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9050/trswamp.jpg][img]http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9050/trswamp.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Withering mushroom trees: Possible to adjust existing models and textures to create these. Textures should have less color. Note the white strands of fungus hanging from the trees (much like BC moss), and a white growth of the same fungus on the bark of the trees (include on textures).
[url=http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/23/trshroomsash2.jpg][img]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/23/trshroomsash2.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3848/trshroomsashb.jpg][img]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3848/trshroomsashb.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Dead trees: It's possible to retexture dead trees from the original game and paste the white strands of fungus on them. It's also possible to model trees from scratch.
[url=http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6134/trswamptrees.jpg][img]http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6134/trswamptrees.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Misc: Included should be treestump and log, as well as several shapes of the white puffball-like fungus and separate pieces of the strand-like fungus (again, much like the separate piece of BC moss). These separate pieces will allow modders to add extra fungal growth to trees and such, giving more modularity. Edit: maybe we could also use something like the BC sludge-pools. But grey, plantless sludge obviously.
We should also choose one or more of the misc. mushrooms in these images. Opinions please. My preference goes to the second image (as a mushroom of about a meter high), with either the third or the shriveled mushroom from the fourth as smaller mushrooms.
[url=http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3315/trswamp1.jpg][img]http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3315/trswamp1.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9939/trswamp2.jpg][img]http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9939/trswamp2.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img192.imageshack.us/i/shornmushroom.jpg/][img]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/936/shornmushroom.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img3.imageshack.us/i/mushroomsandtree.jpg/][img]http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/83/mushroomsandtree.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I'll leave this here for comments for a few days. Then I can make a claim for it (or Haplo, if he prefers to do it).
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Post by Nalin »

I'd go with the shrivelled mushroom from the forth misc. Glad this is going somewhere now, seems like we have enough to go off.
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Post by Katze »

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but can I put in a request for new rocks? I'm getting somewhat concerned that all our regions that have big rocks use the same set of 6 or so meshes retextured from WG, makes me worried that our exteriors will end up looking repetitive (especially with the number of people using MGE and distant land nowadays).
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Post by Myzel »

I assume your request is unrelated to the swamp and mushroom forest?

I feel uncomfortable making a FCG asking for 'new rocks'. Rocks isn't exactly something that warrants concept art imo, nor is the request 'new rocks' very inspiring. That is, unless they are special in some way and connected with the concepting of a unique area.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're just asking for a little more diversity in available rocks. I think that's more something for a modeler to play with on his own.
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Post by blackbird »

Why is there fungus hanging on the trees in the ash swamp? Shoudl there be fungus in the ash swamp?
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Post by Myzel »

I'm guessing you think there shouldn't be any?
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Post by Adanorcil »

Cathartis wrote:Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but can I put in a request for new rocks? I'm getting somewhat concerned that all our regions that have big rocks use the same set of 6 or so meshes retextured from WG, makes me worried that our exteriors will end up looking repetitive (especially with the number of people using MGE and distant land nowadays).
I definitely agree (a couple of different trees wouldn't hurt either), but like Myzel said, it doesn't really seem worth asking for concepts for.

My suggestion is that for the next big region we start designing, we just try and figure out a new kind of rock we could use and then just have someone model a couple.

This just randomly came to mind. How about some new rocks for the ash swamp? I'm thinking smooth, horizontal strata of porous rock, composed primarily out of ash-mud that has hardened over the years. [url=http://www.rogerwendell.com/images/hawaii/big_island_lava_field_february_2007.jpg]Like this[/url], but made out of ash sediments.

This would make the ash swamp an odd landscape consisting of higher-lying stretches of smooth rock that allow some degree of traveling, interspersed with deep pockets of lurid, almost impassable ash bog.
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Post by blackbird »

IIRC there is no fungi at the ashlands, molag amur or red mountain region on Vvardenfell, but there were fungi at the bitter coast.
I wonder if the fungi could survive the regular ash falls. I also thought the trees were withering due the ash.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by Myzel »

Blackbird wrote:IIRC there is no fungi at the ashlands, molag amur or red mountain region on Vvardenfell, but there were fungi at the bitter coast.
I wonder if the fungi could survive the regular ash falls. I also thought the trees were withering due the ash.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Where some plants die, others may thrive. I think the white fungal growth gives it a little extra touch of ghastly and makes it look more like a swamp too.
Adanorcil wrote: My suggestion is that for the next big region we start designing, we just try and figure out a new kind of rock we could use and then just have someone model a couple.
If we're going with the mentioned idea for the Deshaan plains, it might include salt rock formations.

Your idea for rocks in the ash swamp seems fine to me as well, though I'm not sure we need it and it seems a little hard to pull off (I have no idea how it could be made into functional, modular statics).
It won't really solve the problem Cath was talking about. I think he was talking more about the big, tall rocks we use everywhere to make mountains and cliffs. If such mountains are near the swamp, low rocks won't make a difference.
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Post by Adanorcil »

IIRC there is no fungi at the ashlands, molag amur or red mountain region on Vvardenfell, but there were fungi at the bitter coast.
I wonder if the fungi could survive the regular ash falls. I also thought the trees were withering due the ash.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Technically, all those big mushrooms are fungi too. These are real-world ecology concerns that don't matter to us.

That being said, I'm not against the white fungal growths, as long as they don't give too much of the "corpsy decay" look. I think the ash swamp should look natural, if quite unearthly, but not sickening. I suppose I'm just wary they will become too much like the 'Dead Marshes' from Lord of the Rings, though I'm sure we will prevent that.


Adanorcil wrote: My suggestion is that for the next big region we start designing, we just try and figure out a new kind of rock we could use and then just have someone model a couple.
If we're going with the mentioned idea for the Deshaan plains, it might include salt rock formations.

Your idea for rocks in the ash swamp seems fine to me as well, though I'm not sure we need it and it seems a little hard to pull off (I have no idea how it could be made into functional, modular statics).
It won't really solve the problem Cath was talking about. I think he was talking more about the big, tall rocks we use everywhere to make mountains and cliffs. If such mountains are near the swamp, low rocks won't make a difference.[/quote]

That's true. My suggestion for the ash swamp rocks wasn't really in response to Cath's concerns directly, but more of a tangent. I might expand the idea a bit, but I'll do that somewhere else.
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Post by Myzel »

I'm going to move ahead and create the claim for the ash swamp objects now. We can always model rocks later if deemed necessary.
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Post by Adanorcil »

Myzel wrote:I'm going to move ahead and create the claim for the ash swamp objects now. We can always model rocks later if deemed necessary.
I think it would make more sense to split these into multiple smaller claims. Also, I'm still having a slightly uncomfortable feeling about the current look of this region and I'm worried it will still end up being awfully 'dead marsh', with the withering mushroom trees, dead trees and the eery white fungus everywhere. I'm afraid it'll look "unnatural and spooky", rather than "natural, but extremely inhospitable". It's just that we don't really have any concepts that deviate from this.
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Post by Myzel »

Adanorcil wrote: I think it would make more sense to split these into multiple smaller claims.
Well, you have more knowledge about the way modelers work, so how do you suggest to split it?
Adanorcil wrote:Also, I'm still having a slightly uncomfortable feeling about the current look of this region and I'm worried it will still end up being awfully 'dead marsh', with the withering mushroom trees, dead trees and the eery white fungus everywhere. I'm afraid it'll look "unnatural and spooky", rather than "natural, but extremely inhospitable". It's just that we don't really have any concepts that deviate from this.
Obviously, I disagree that there is a problem with that. I think dead marshes is pretty much what we aimed for. In fact, "a swamp dead due to ashfall" can hardly be interpreted any other way. And dead is what it absolutely should be, because we're talking about ash here. Like I said, the fungus makes it look a little less 'just ashlands with water' (and also also makes a comparison with LoTR untrue).

The rocks you suggested might give it a slightly different feel too, so I'm all in favor of using those if you can come up with a good concept or model yourself. But I really feel we should get modelers to make the concepts we have now.
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Post by blackbird »

The only livings organisms could be some plants. Perhaps we could use some of the ashlands plants, like trama shrubs, firefern, scathecraw, ash grass.
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Post by Katze »

Assuming the ashfall happened a fair while ago, I think the smaller fungi, like the puffball, various lichens and whatever else is likely to be a short-lifespan fruiting body rather than a mushroom tree should be non-ashen and have some colour.

Having the majority of the area be drab and desaturated. and only using colour for useful plants and items helps draw the player to points of interest.
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Post by Myzel »

blackbird wrote:The only livings organisms could be some plants. Perhaps we could use some of the ashlands plants, like trama shrubs, firefern, scathecraw, ash grass.
Without anything else to make the place look interesting it would still be just ashlands with water. Not the way to do it imo. A player wouldn't even recognize it as something new.
Last edited by Myzel on Wed May 26, 2010 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nalin »

blackbird wrote:Why is there fungus hanging on the trees in the ash swamp? Shoudl there be fungus in the ash swamp?
Fungus hanging on the trees? I see the stuff hanging on the trees as dust covered stuff - like the way old cobwebs look when they're covered in dust - I don't think they should be "white fungus", maybe they were once but not anymore. As for the fungal growths up top of the parasols - we should play them down a bit if we want to give a "lifeless" feel to the place.

I'd very much like to start on the models but I've just had the Dres buildings handed over to me.
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Post by Haplo »

I believe archie has been doing a bit of work on some of the mushroom things when she has time. I've only seen one mesh but she's on IRC these days if anyone wants to drop by and ask.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

As in the old ESF mod? Que randóm.
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Post by Haplo »

Yes, she used to do some freelance modeling for TR but now she's back
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