Sir Dave's Showcase

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:00 pm

Greetings everyone!

I recently downloaded and started playing the TR maps. and the y are awesome.
i really like the idea of being able to contribute to this project.

My main skills are creating exteriors and interiors.
this particular showcase will show my skills at making exteriors.

this showcase features some cells south of the AI region.
I used BM, MH and TR_data for this mod.

I'm looking forward to hearing your comments on this.

Sir Dave.

Drift3r · Post by **Drift3r** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:07 am

Welcome to TR Sir Dave!
im also a modder trying to become promoted for exteriors XD anyways i thought i would check out your mod and give you some hints and helpful advice before your first review

i didnt take much time looking at it cuz im leaving to eat soon. heres a quick list..

-the first thing i see is texture seams..parts where terrain meet awkwardly and form a noticable line(s)..this can be fixed by using a rock or other object(s) to cover, or change the terrain or something along those lines(no pun)

-texture shading could be used better..dont forget you also shade around rocks and other statics (trees, plants, etc.) it gives an illusion of shadows...and we like that here at TR =D..

-the land is quite bare in some places perhaps more plants or things (rocks maybe?) it helps make things not look manfactured. (however i love the mountainous thing youve made its sweet XD)

thats all... i havent checked for floating objects or ones that bleed...im not an official modder or reviewer so my word isnt much..just thought id throw some tips out there for yah XD
have fun modding and i hope we both get promoted! lol =)

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:45 am

Thanks Drift3r!

i'll go and fix these things.

Thanks for the advice!

Why · Post by **Why** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:51 am

Welcome to TR! I'm not an exterior modder so I won't be reviewing your showcase, but I'm sure someone will be along to take a look at your work. Feel free to bump this thread if it hasn't been reviewed in a week or so

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:12 pm

Ok time for review:

Actualy what Drift3r has said is a realy good advice. Still i will add 2 things:

-clean all cells you haven't completly changed. (This means everything you didn't name). This is important when merging maps. You cleaned all the other things allright btw.

-you should not place trees on rocks because some of them don't look realistic.

Do all of this (and shade a lot) and i think you will be ok

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:37 pm

Please don't make your file dependent on anything other than Morrowind, Tribunal, Bloodmoon and TR. Yours is apparently also dependent on both map1 and map2. And I do only have TR_mainland ready to hand in the moment, so I can't look at your file (perhaps I'm just too busy to download the files, but IIRC we have a rule about that)

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:15 pm

I'm very sorry to hear that. i was assuming that every TR modder had map 1 and 2 installed.

i also get an error when i try to view it without map 1 and 2.
any idea how to solve this?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:38 pm

TESDTK can remove dependencies

if you made your quest on TR land, then I will take a look, despite my lack of knowledge regarding actual quest mechanics. Hopefully in that time, another quester with the release maps will come along. (or one will acquire them for the good of the department *wink wink*)

If your quest is in vanilla lands then TESDTK will solve the problems.

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:41 pm

Since this dependant on map 1&2 you will get a error when you try to view without them. You can solve that using TESDTK (download from the utilities page here).

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:30 pm

Ok thx guys, i will see if i can get it right.

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:37 pm

well, i tried.

i used the TESDTK program and removed the map1 and 2 dependencies.

the strange thing is i still get the error message when i try to load it without map 1 and 2...

what's this TR_mainland file btw? the replacement for maps 1 and 2?

Why · Post by **Why** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:41 pm

Thrig, you confuse me, this isn't a quest right?

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:43 pm

No this is a exterior. It realy has no need to have map 1 & 2 to work.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:45 pm

I have no idea why I thought this was a quest

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:16 pm

Btw and for further reference here is the clean file

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:38 pm

You cleaned the dependencies for me??

Thanks a lot!!!

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:55 pm

Sir Dave wrote: what's this TR_mainland file btw? the replacement for maps 1 and 2?

TR_mainland is not available for you guys, but it's a merged version of map1 and 2 only modders can download. I only use that one instead of the releases, I guess you're right that this is rather stupid as it really doesn't take very long to download-... however, it was actually really unimportant to mention that thing. I don't have much time right now, so I'm sorry I can't take a look at the cleaned file.

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:19 am

Here's an update of the exterior showcase.

I've been working on shades, texture seems and giving more detail to the place.
next to that I cleaned the file of unwanted wilderness cells.

this one does not depend on map 1 and 2, so that problem should be gone.

looking forward to hearing your reviews.

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:47 pm

Review: this showcase could us a bit more shading. Also the small town at 2, -18 could use a road and you should lower the ground so it isn't over the ramp. Also there is a log at 3,-19 that looks odd. Also try not to have so many trees on rocks.

All in all very good. Fix these and i will recommend you to be promaoted for a promotion.

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:26 pm

Ho Sir Dave,

Sorry I have to say that, but I'm not entirely sure why you're using bm rocks on ai textures. Other exterior modders may correct me if I'm wrong, but style-mixing does not only exist in interiors.

It was just a really quick look that I took, but I'm pretty sure that I saw a half-floating indoril wall somewhere and also the plants in front of it were bleeding.

Oh, and if I haven't told you so far, welcome to TR!

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:45 pm

Updated:

-Moved or removed some trees off the rocks.

-Used more shading, especially around trees.

-added a road to the village and flattened the ground there.

-fixed some texture seems.

To answer your question Scamp, I used BM rocks on AI textures for the purpose of creativity. I wanted to create the athmosphere of a deciduous woodland area, and I thought the BM rocks looked nice with the rest of the vegetation.

If it's not appreciated I am sorry. but doesn't the Roth Roryn area for example use GL rocks on WG textures?

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:12 pm

Hoh Sir Dave!!!

Just to clarify: I did not look at your file yet. Unfortunately, this is probably my last post before I'm two weeks away.
Creativity is good. Mixing styles is AFAIK not allowed, unless we're talking about a specific region where it has been clearly stated that you can use e.g. Wg texures with gl rocks (RR). I've worked with RR, and my opinion is that there are no problems with mixing these region types, and it doesn't even look bad.
To cut a long story short, this is a matter of taste. If you think it looks nice, ok. Not everyone thinks that. It is always better to stick with what everyone uses. TR doesn't always have regions mixed up by other regions. E.g. Ulubael Coast Region (or so) is just AI. And it would be really bad if you used BM rocks there. BM rocks are used sparingly in the north, or at the borders to Skyrim and Cyrodiil IIRC. (not entirely sure though

)
I'm not sure if you can leave them, it's not the end of the world IMO, but perhaps some other people could please see to this.
And I'm certain someone will find the time to look at your file soon.

Happy modding!

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:38 am

One week passed:

Time to BUMP!

Even though I realize many ppl will be on holiday now.

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:57 am

Could someone please review my latest upload?

I'd like to hear your comments on it.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:20 pm

Very very sorry about the lack of a review (I'd do it myself were I at a computer with morrowind installed)

On the plus side, scamp said he would be gone for 2 weeks, so if no one else does, he will probably do it soon. (probably not much consolation)

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:12 am

It's allright.

although Scamp did sugest that some others might take a look at my showcase because he wasn't sure if BM textures were allowed in combinitaion with AI textures.

PoisonUnagi · Post by **PoisonUnagi** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:20 pm

Well as long as they're not snowy textures, and it looks natural, you should be alright.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:59 pm

A few things to work on:

1: That MH well needs to be sized down to .5
2. Indoril generally don't have shacks in their towns; they're known for being traditional, and traditionally benevolent toward poor folk to the point where they either run them off or house them.
3. No windows? I'd add some.
4. Your roads are too wide; a two-tile road is BIG in-game, like American Interstate big.
5. Get some vertex shade borders going along where you have some region changes; it helps hide the abrupt transitions.
6. Go over the entire region with the smooth tool; single-click only, never click-and-drag.

God I can't wait for Map 5, I love BM tilesets...

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:30 am

Updated Showcase:

-Sized down the road.
-replaced the shacks in the village by Indoril houses.
-uses some more shading.

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:10 pm

Sir Dave wrote: he wasn't sure if BM textures were allowed in combinitaion with AI textures.

Just to clarify, I was mainly talking about the rocks, but as Haplo didn't mention that, I suppose it is ok.

Haplo wrote: God I can't wait for Map 5, I love BM tilesets...

YES!!

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:25 pm

Any news on the review yet?

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:01 pm

gah, I somehow forgot about this tbh. I will get to it when I have some time... or someone else...

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:18 pm

Alright so lets have a look:

(for now I'll keep this fairly brief due to time)

First of all I have to say this is very detailed, and from the initial look, appears to be quite nice.

You have a few types of statics used throught the showcase, and some spots it does look a tad odd, but I think in this case we can make the exception.
Just keep in mind how the types of regions are structured and to avoid style mixing.

Your general terrain is fairly smooth which is nice, obviously keep an eye out for those few rough vertices though.

Other than this, I've noticed two key areas I would improve on:

Shading - your shading has a solid start, but the colours are a little intense, try to dull them down. Also some of the colours around a few areas arent quite right, they need to blend more into the terrain.

Paths - Your paths are decent but they are a little to flat for my liking, try to sink them down a bit more so it looks like the paths have been worn down and used alot over time.

Sorry if this review is brief, I'm rather strap for time.

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:44 am

Here's an update.

-Made the roads more hollow.
-Used lighter shadings
-Used more brown instead of grey shadings.

Also I would like to aks if you could speed up the reviews a bit, I have only two weeks of holiday left and it would be nice if I could do most of the work on my showcase during the next weeks.

Thanks in advance!

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:08 pm

I'll take a look at this again.

Please bare with us, your claim is fairly large and I'm currently without a computer, (trying to review on a laptop atm)

In the mean time,
Could you please tell me what diffferent colours you are using for shading around roads and for plants?
e.g. Roads = (0,0,0) , Plants = (0,0,0)

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:13 pm

As long as the shading looks good, the numbers don't really matter. Just try to stick to medium greys and browns as much as possible, other colours tend to look weird.

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:44 pm

Well generally my brown color is R108 G108 B40 or slight variations on that.

in some spots wich are meant to be dark i've used some more darkgrey textures. of course i've been reasoning from the point that it should look good. It's trua that I made the textures very dark. I had some comments on my showcase saying the shadings should be darker, I probably made them a little too dark.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:42 am

This is looking great, but there are two things before I think you'll be ready:

1. You took the advice about lowering roads to seem worn and well-used, but you went a bit *too* far in lowering them. Check out the road in my Exteriors tutorial here on the TR website to see what we mean by "worn". (Main > Tutorials) (Also continue to check for rough landscape in areas along roads and paths, I noticed a bit)

2. While you have plenty of statics in each cell, there are few patches in the woods/wilderness areas that are pretty much devoid of statics. Add some detail here, because while it may look fine or passable in the CS, the cells seem a LOT bigger in the game, and would look naked if detail weren't there.

I'd like to take this time to reiterate how much I love the BM tilesets.

Sir Dave · Post by **Sir Dave** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:24 pm

Hello everyone, after having been AFK for multiple weeks, I'm back to continue working on my showcase.

So here's my newest WIP update:

- Added more detail, especially under the dense woods.
- made the roads slightly less hollow.

As allways looking forward to hearing your feedback on this.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:59 pm

Hi there Sir Dave,

I'll try review this by tomorrow night (GMT+10:00)

I look foward to seeing the changes in it.

EDIT:

Sir Dave wrote:Well generally my brown color is R108 G108 B40 or slight variations on that.

Looking at this colour, It's a bit too strong for these kind of textures. If you have the global light on (pressing A) and your colours are rich yellows/greens/whatever, then its generally to strong.

Usually our shading is very neutral based colours. (with the odd exceptions)