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gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

The nests only have to be for smaller juvenile skyrenders. The few that make it to adulthood are taken in and domesticated.
Post Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Myzel
Developer Emeritus
07 Aug 2008

Location: The Concept Art Forum

Some more images:

Atmospheric sketches




Tree


Dres stuff

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Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:59 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Mwgek
Developer
11 Apr 2008



That's looking really awesome. But what do I see on the Dres sketches besides the well? Can't really figure out what kind of building these are.
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Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Katze
Developer Emeritus
26 Feb 2009

Location: Behind you!

The one at the top-right looks like some kind of archimedes screw for raising water between different irrigation levels.

Top left is a dam/levee?

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Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:33 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Adanorcil
Developer Emeritus
22 Jan 2006



Myzel wrote:
Some more images:

Atmospheric sketches




Tree


Dres stuff


Number 3 and to a lesser extent number 2 (should perhaps be slightly less plain-y) nail it. I am not a fan of the trees, I'm afraid. They lack a little definition beyond being gnarly and bare, but they also seem out of place to me. The Deshaan is not a place for big trees. While the flora shouldn't reach enormous sizes, there is probably some room for big(ger) things, just not big tree-like things. It is a place for witherweed and cragroot and brinereeds. (Just pulling names of the top of my head.) Either way, the general look for this region is not the issue anymore. I am going to quote Lutemoth again, because his description is absolutely perfect. This is the Deshaan:

Yellow chlorine pools crusted with sodium chlorate puncture the surface on their meander to Black Marsh. Ivory grass which greys the landscape like a dry tundra. Tiger-striped guars roam here, and have become iconic to the western Eyes. Saltrice is sporadically farmed, but salt from the earth must be raked from the ground to provide irrigation for this staple food, lest the cultivated plants die from acidic flooding. This can be seen by the pyramids of salt that dot the thin, near-pointless roads, too poisonous to be consumed or sold. Argonians are the perfect slave to accomplish this type of plantation, as the Black Marsh trade is adjacent to the South, and a free-running lizard won't make it far in the chlorine clouds brushed up by winds. An Argonian putrefying in a shallow pool is not uncommon a sight, and keeps the slaves in line.

With the above in mind, I am going to expound a little on the 'fertility' of the Deshaan, since there seems to be some confusion about this, while it is absolutely crucial to the region's design. Yes, the Deshaan is fertile to the point of being Morrowind's breadbasket, but it is a very different kind of fertility than one might expect. An uncultivated area in the Deshaan should look like the very last place one would want to try and grow crops. Its arid climate, brackish and corrosive water, worthless soil and glaring sun would make virtually any plant perish within hours of its planting.

The Dres, however, cultivate the few impossible-to-kill plants that have adapted to life there by artificially creating the ideal conditions for their growth. Saltrice is grown in massive irrigated beds of saline water. Orad bulbs need to be covered in tightly stamped rocksalt twice yearly to promote their growth and must be harvested before their leafage cracks the surface. The tending of the wanweed shoots is a true art: a proper balance of crust-mulch and chlore-dust provides a thick, savory stem; too much and the entire harvest becomes inedible. etc.

All this fabrication to properly illustrate the idea that the Deshaan is fertile simply because the great effort invested by the Dunmer and their tremendous experience at overcoming Morrowind's adversities. You give them hell and they thrive on it.

My agricultural woolgathering up there was also meant to set the general tone I think we should head in for the region's native flora, which obviously shows similarities with its cultivated counterparts. Keywords are dry, flaky, sharp, hardy, etc.

Whatever random inspiration popped in my head:

- Dead bamboo, but then alive, funked up to 11. Not just bamboo. Razor bamboo. Multiple-stemmed ├╝bergrass. All manners of grasses, various colors. Scale up to your heart's content. You know the stuff.

- This stuff, but then big. Or weirder. Better yet, check the whole family.

- All manners of weird cactuses, but please don't make them look like cactuses at all.

- Lichen bushes? Lichenroots? Lichen trees? Lichen crops?

- Anything that lives anywhere too cold, too hot, too dry, too screwed up. Deshaanify it. Throw us a bone here.

- Anything based around the idea of filters, barriers, storage, taproots, alternative ways of finding water, an inherent need for substances that kill other plants etc. Anything evolution would come up with to do the impossible.
Post Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:34 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
greendogo
TR Tester
29 Mar 2008

Location: Land of Oz

I don't like the trees, but I kind of like the landscapes. However, the landscapes don't look very fertile to me. And while I know that it is supposed to look arid and brown, I think there is a certain quality of fertility that should be obvious in a fertile landscape. I just don't see it in those concepts. I can imagine standing in a vast field of white grasses and sparse trees and feeling like that was a dry and arid environment without taking away the essential quality of fertility from the environment. But constructing the environment with a lack of plants is not the way to go. Making those plants contribute to the "aridness" (such as using the color-scheme) seems to me to be the best route.

I would imagine the Deshaan Plains to be a whiter/silver version of the African savanna with sparse but heavy rainfall and the trademark salt flats.

I'd like to point out that "salt" comes in a variety of colors stemming from differing chemical composition. Pink, yellow, white (of course), light blue, etc. Google them for inspiration.

Also, the talk about these plains makes me think of Mirrodin from Magic the Gathering:
example 1, example 2.

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Post Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Worsas
Developer
10 Sep 2005



Edit: Nevermind
Post Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Myzel
Developer Emeritus
07 Aug 2008

Location: The Concept Art Forum

About the Dres buildings: Top left is simply a wall section. Top right is indeed meant for raising water, though that probably isn't practical in Morrowind since the game has only one water level. Razz
Bottom right is a simple well. Bottom left, I don't like. The basic function, though, is a pump or drill to access soil water.

@Adan: I'm glad you like some of them at least. :p I understand that you want to get your own concept across, and we are working with that. But it's somewhat unfair (and for me, increasingly frustrating) to expect people to draw the rather specific concept you have in mind based on words. Words only go so far.

Large trees aren't necessary, ok. But as it stands there hasn't been any smaller flora in this thread that's been hailed with much enthusiasm either.
In any case, my mind agrees with succulent plants.

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:55 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Worsas
Developer
10 Sep 2005



Since I keep deleting my posts, I'll write once more that I think those trees are not as unfitting as some people above claim.
Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
YanShun
Member
26 Oct 2010



I drew this days ago in order to post it here, and then I just read the whole thing about succulent plants in Deshaan. Well, that really should fit in here then:



These 2 plants were inspired by the barbary fig tree, a mediteranean plant. I really love the taste of its fruits!

I didn't have time to make a colored sketch but I'd like to see pale grey with a light shade of violet instead of the green. If I have time I'll make a colored version.
Post Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:55 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Myzel
Developer Emeritus
07 Aug 2008

Location: The Concept Art Forum

Not bad. The one on the ground looks interesting.
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Post Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:07 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
YanShun
Member
26 Oct 2010



I might add a more detailed version in several days then.
Post Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

This all looks so cool I can't wait to see it made and implemented (and me making such an area Wink) Are we still using (some) of vurt's files? I really like those too.
Post Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:03 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Drenym Ramoran
Member
06 May 2011



Hi, I've just read the posts about waterscrews/wheels, and the problems related to how it works. Animated slaves or guars seem to be excluded. So, I just wondered: Members of House Dres seem to be closely related to their ancestors. As the Dunmer seem to use ancestral ghosts to protect them, or to guard some places, wouldn't they use the ghosts to power devices such as water pumps?
I know the Dres worship and respect their ancestors more than everything else, but we can imagine that some disgraced/banned dunmer could be condemned to death, and then to serve as a power source for devices.
As the Dres make an intensive use of slavery, I think that binding ancestral ghosts to mechanical devices wouldn't be too much against their values and principles...

Just an idea I had, please tell me what you think of it!

I will also post a sketch of a water screw tonight or tomorrow.

Sorry for my bad english!
Post Mon May 09, 2011 2:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

Here's my idea for some Deshaan ground textures. More can be added as needed.


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Post Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:01 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

I like em lots, though I think at least one texture with some kind of 'floor foliage' of lichen/pale grass or something would be nice. Obviously not for the effect of 'lush' but just for the effect of 'not barren'.
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Post Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:33 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lutemoth
Developer Emeritus
10 Dec 2005

Location: Null Zero, manifest

Thread Necromancy, but nonetheless. I liked that skyrender discussion and thought I'd contribute a little.



A wild Skyrender is out of the question. Always has, and best that saltrice serfs walk clear of their nests. Saltstorms often have destroyed a nest or two, but their numbers remain the same. Unless you happen to be a tendril of the House Telvanni or a well-on-their-own hunter of Dres, nothing you do short of a hefty scroll will calm down one of those things.

I haven't been in Morrowind lately, but I'd imagine non-creature activators for buzzing static skyrenders would populate the exterior of one o these nests. You could levitate to them, sure, but for scripting sake they wouldn't have creature stats. Same as siltstriders.



Prolly too big, but size can be negotiated. I'd imagine something that looked vaguely like a giant mudcrab, parked on a pond's edge for what seems to be decades. No one knows if it will move again, and quite frankly it is best that it doesn't wander. If one wanted to bring a quest-purpose for entering one of these mudnests, a simple alchemy "bring me skyrender paper" bit would suffice a trip.

Alternatively:

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Post Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:28 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Lutemoth, his words are wise. And like I said before, wild skyrenders don't need to be as massive as the domesticated ones, which are altered by magic and a wholesome diet of nectar and slaves.
Post Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:58 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
roerich
Developer
08 Feb 2010

Location: Sea of Ghosts

Some input about waterscrews/wheels.

I found this document about different water lifting techniques (especially from the Middle-east and Mesopotamia): http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/ah810e/AH810E05.htm#5.4.2 And it got me thinking.


Noria - This could be used along rivers, and would look really cool if made as an activor constantly running.


Counterpoise lift/Shadoof - Simple water lifting technique, could be used in simpler villages, far from bigger bodies of water. I reckon that a simple static would do, and there would be no need of animated slaves or guars. Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaduf




Sakia/"The Persian wheel" - This design looks awesome, and would fit really well into the Dres architechture. Would need animated slaves or guars probably (I can't think of any good solutions to this). Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakia

"Sumerian agriculture depended heavily on irrigation. The irrigation was accomplished by the use of shadufs, canals, channels, dykes, weirs, and reservoirs. The frequent violent floods of the Tigris, and less so, of the Euphrates, meant that canals required frequent repair and continual removal of silt, and survey markers and boundary stones needed to be continually replaced. The government required individuals to work on the canals in a corvee, although the rich were able to exempt themselves."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_culture#Culture
Post Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:50 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Terrifying Daedric Foe
Developer
26 Aug 2010

Location: England

Those all look really cool.

Good work, roerich! Very Happy

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Post Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:29 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
roerich
Developer
08 Feb 2010

Location: Sea of Ghosts

Thanks! I love the current outlook and concept for the Dres and the Deshaan. I really hope to get to work on it someday, and spend a lot of time researching real-life inspirations and try to think up some cool ideas for the future.

Edit: Now for something else. I don't know if this belongs in a different thread, please point me in the right direction if not.

Shanty-towns of the Deshaan

There is a problem with the Dres architecture set and the Deshaan terrain: Where do the poor live? The major Dres buildings look great but also majestic and for rich Dunmer. As Dres society is very hierarchical and perhaps even more class/caste focused than the rest of Morrowind, the architecture should reflect this. The slaves are in the slave pens, but the Deshaan and the rest of the area also has poor but free people.

I know we have the ex_de shacks, but 1. they are overused, and it gets boring seeing one shack town after another. 2. I'm under the impression that the Deshaan plains lack large trees/mushrooms to use for building material. I know the marshes and jungles of Argonia is not that far away, but would the Dres really spend resources on building make-shift towns for the lowest of the low? I don't know, but this topic at least makes for some interesting discussion concerning new architecture and more distinction to the Deshaan/Dres area.

What I propose is some sort of small clusters of simple buildings like the earliest human settlements; made of mud-bricks, white/grey/sand coloured like the Deshaan itself, perhaps with most of the entrances being trap doors from the roofs and ladders up to the roofs, in order to protect the poor, sleeping workers from predators and occasional bandit raids. Think a much simpler, more primitive version of the Hlaalu, Velothi and Necrom sets.

Just my two drakes.

I've googled around a bit, and found some pictures I found relevant, of the earliest near-east cities and ancient African towns. I have a great book which I could try and scan some pages from,(link here), but here's what I found so far:



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Post Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:23 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

While the idea of lower-class dwellings is interesting, I'd rather see a "poor" variant of the Dres architecture that looks more like their normal buildings. But that's just me. I'm worried that, if the two things don't look like they're part of the same set, it'll cause a confusing image of Dres culture.
Post Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:42 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
LiberumAvis
Developer
28 Oct 2012

Location: Tver, Russia

These buildings reminded me ruins from the vanilla Morrowind.
http://imgur.com/1Ibx1

By the way, I would like to propose to make the lighthouses for the different types of architecture. I have not played a lot in TR, but noted that the lighthouses used only in imperial style. I could have start to create some models for them.
Post Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:58 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

If you have any ideas for lighthouses, that would be really cool! Preferably let them use regular tilesets on the interior, but if you can create something unique for those too, that works as well! Smile
Post Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:51 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
LiberumAvis
Developer
28 Oct 2012

Location: Tver, Russia

I'm not an artist, but I'll try to create some concept art on this week.
Post Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:56 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
roerich
Developer
08 Feb 2010

Location: Sea of Ghosts

Why wrote:
While the idea of lower-class dwellings is interesting, I'd rather see a "poor" variant of the Dres architecture that looks more like their normal buildings. But that's just me. I'm worried that, if the two things don't look like they're part of the same set, it'll cause a confusing image of Dres culture.


Why not both? I imagine a set of simple "blocks" (lower than the regular Dres set) with a more weathered and cracked version of the Dres texture set. This would (along with seperate meshes for doors, windows, staircases etc.) allow for some consistent but highly diverse cities. Throw in some ex_de_shack_awnings, and I think it would look great.

I just had this idea of some of the more remote villages in the Deshaan being cramped together, as well as the slums of Tear, climbing up on the sides of the major city. If we did the easily placeable and customisable "block" type buildings, it would also allow for some higher elevation and different "levels" of the poor quarters (please tell me if I'm not making sense here, English is not my first language). I'm trying to draw some concepts of what I have in mind.
Post Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:26 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Adanorcil
Developer Emeritus
22 Jan 2006



While I can see why one would want a separate set for poorer Dres dwellings, I'm against it on practical grounds. Neither vanilla, nor any of the other TR work so far has an architectural distinction between classes. The convention is that rich housing is large, lavish and with many details, whereas common folk houses consist of a single block and are unadorned both on the in and outside.

What's important to keep in mind is that we are never painting a realistic picture of Morrowind. Morrowind the game is a translation of Morrowind the world. It's not realism we're doing here, but expressionism. That way we can make abstractions such as every settlement of a House sharing the exact same architecture. Things like that allow the production of a mod or a game to happen in a reasonable time. (Remember, the current Dres set took years to complete.)

Unfortunately, if you introduce such abstract rules, you have to play by them consistently, lest you confuse your audience. Imagine you came into a Telvanni town where the mushrooms all had a different color. Since you've always assumed one architecture set = one faction, you'd assume these are somehow different Telvanni or not Telvanni at all. In that light, I agree with Why that this idea would only work if it was in essence an extension of the Dres set. Anything that would qualify as a separate set would be impossible, not in the least because the original set already took preposterously long to create.
Post Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:10 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
roerich
Developer
08 Feb 2010

Location: Sea of Ghosts

I understand what you're saying, but what I originally pictured was not a simpler/poorer version of the Dres set, but a "replacer" and a cousin to the ex_de_shack set. But as I said, an addition to the Dres set would be great, but only because I think the Dres set as of now looks rich, and that shack towns becomes boring after a while.

Besides, I was merely brainstorming and trying to open up some discussion, so I hope that I've at least inspired someone. Smile
Post Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:49 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Oh don't get me wrong roerich, I'm glad you brought it up, I just disagreed with this specific idea. Please do continue to share ideas, often times very good things come from discussions like this, and I'm in no way the final authority on matters like this so even if I disagree but you still manage to make a good case, people might elaborate on it and eventually something good might come of it!
Post Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:28 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Adanorcil
Developer Emeritus
22 Jan 2006



roerich wrote:

Besides, I was merely brainstorming and trying to open up some discussion, so I hope that I've at least inspired someone. Smile


By all means, continue.
Post Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:13 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Though I'm not too familiar with the Dres set, I believe that the Catal Huyuk like city-with-no-streets could very well be achieved by clever exterior building alone, without having to create a completely new tileset. I like this whole idea a lot, btw.

(Look at Akamora, for example. That place really uses the Indoril set creatively.)

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Post Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:16 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



And be it double posting (or necromancing for that matter; this thread was quite dead until just recently), I'd still like to contribute some concept art for the Deshaan Plains myself.

A large piece of flora, an alien looking substitute for a tree.


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Last edited by Rats on Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:15 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
greendogo
TR Tester
29 Mar 2008

Location: Land of Oz

Can anyone tell me if the larva lanterns are still being tossed around?

If so, I was wondering if the background information about the larva had been fleshed out yet. I think there's a lot of interesting things you could do with glowing larva besides use them as city lanterns.

List of questions:
-What are they called?
-What does the adult insect look like? Does it glow too?
-Are there different colors?
-Will there be handheld larval lanterns?
-Will the larva themselves be used as an ingredient or will they be a creature?
-Where can the larva be found in nature (on the ground, in swamps, in trees etc.)
-Do the slaves in Dres communities tend to the larva or their adult forms?
-Are there places where the larva/adult form are raised or harvested?
-What class levels can be found using the larva? (all of them?)
-Which configurations, styles and quality levels will the sconces and lanterns carrying these things be made in


My idea for their origin is that the larva would be born in the translucent bubbles found along the exterior skin of the tree in the following concept art (number 5): http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2600/mushroomplants.jpg
That tree was originally supposed to be a mushroom tree found in Oreleth, but apparently it didn't make the cut; perhaps it could be repurposed as this?

Perhaps the adult version of the insect would tend to be found around the trees, guarding them like Kwama warriors guard their nests. Perhaps to defend them from roaming skyrenders? The idea being when the adults die, they are planted, and grow into a new larval tree. The trees could be harvestable for the larva.

Anyway, just some ideas to make the Deshaan plains a little more colorful (especially at night!)

Edit: Here's a mockup/diagram:

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Mwgek
Developer
11 Apr 2008



I like the idea.
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LiberumAvis
Developer
28 Oct 2012

Location: Tver, Russia

Yeh, it looks morrowindish.
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Post Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:26 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Ashstaar
Developer
02 Jun 2005



I also like this idea. Very creative and fits Morrowind well.
Post Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:03 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
greendogo
TR Tester
29 Mar 2008

Location: Land of Oz

Glad you guys like it.
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http://tristikov.deviantart.com/art/G-Dunmer-wit-Siltstridaz-dawg-28071455
hmmmm... I should have looked at this guys DA gallery before posting a link to it... he likes horses... a little too much
Post Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:21 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

http://i.imgur.com/0nhIH.jpg

Initial test stuff.

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SIGILLVM COMMVNITATIS DE CIVITATE BERGENSI
Post Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Worth posting:

[11/22/2012 08:27PM] <~Haplo> for some reason, when I read Deshaan plains, I think plains
[11/22/2012 08:27PM] <~Haplo> must be crazy
[11/22/2012 08:27PM] <@Why> yeah, I think it should be more plainsy too
[11/22/2012 08:28PM] <~Haplo> I think like great plains
[11/22/2012 08:29PM] <~Haplo> http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs30/f/2008/174/5/a/Great_Plains_by_SalsolaStock.jpg
[11/22/2012 08:29PM] <~Haplo> http://assets.worldwildlife.org/photos/2328/images/hero_small/greatplains-hero.jpg?1345840622
[11/22/2012 08:30PM] <~Haplo> http://fireecology.okstate.edu/images/TGPP%20bison%20on%20patch4.JPG
[11/22/2012 08:30PM] <@Why> those with the occasional rock formation and pools of saltrice, yes
[11/22/2012 08:30PM] <~Haplo> basically a lot of prairie
[11/22/2012 08:30PM] <~Haplo> and some steppes, all bordered by mountains
[11/22/2012 08:30PM] <@Why> post that in the thread
[11/22/2012 08:30PM] <@Why> seriously
[11/22/2012 08:31PM] <@Why> because I'm gonna take a nap soon and otherwise Nemon won't see it

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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:34 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
SamirA
Developer Emeritus
27 Apr 2010

Location: Somewhere in Tamriel

I like our Deshaan ideas, perhaps call them the Salt Plains if the discrepancy means that much.
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And that's how you get to Llama School.
Lady_N: mountain dew tastes like yellow and pwning at d&d
Post Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:51 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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