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Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Wow, that was fast! I like all of your alterations and simplifications. As this isn't the place to discuss models, (to my understanding), I'll send you a PM.
Post Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Exovian
Developer
16 Sep 2012



A friend and I were visiting a small cave in a road cut the other day. While there, I found some small rocks and formations on them that could potentially look very good if implemented in the Deshaan Plains, especially if we go with some salt plains or something similar. If anyone wants, I can try to get some better shot; I'm not the best photographer.


IMG_0794.JPG
 Description:
First rock, shows some interesting cross-sections.

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IMG_0795.JPG
 Description:
Second one, this one has some smaller rough parts on it.

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IMG_0796.JPG
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Attempted close-up of a hollow tube formation.

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Post Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Not to raise the dead, but I wrote this paragraph of atmospheric text

Meen-Sa clicked her tongue as she scraped at the salt with her claws. By laws of nature beyond her comprehension, saltrice in its many cultivars could not grow except in these saline deposits which dotted the Deshaan Plains. It was the only plant which grew in them, and it grew in abundance. The overseer was leaning in the shade of a clawed polypore, watching as she and a dozen other slaves tilled the earth for planting. As she scraped again against the salt, she felt it suddenly give way, and she tumbled head first down a sinkhole. She landed in a solution of bleach and brine at the bottom of a thirty-foot-deep saltwash which ran below the surface. From the light which shown through the hole she had just made, she could see that there was no way to climb out. She heard the shouts of the overseer above and realized this was an opportunity. Rising, she began to make her way in the dark along the cavernous wash. She just needed to move down a few hundred yards and then find her way out. From somewhere behind her, Meen-Sa heard a hiss and a clicking mandible. She quickened her pace.

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Post Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:10 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyddyner
Member
01 Oct 2013



Continuing the theme of hives/nests - here is my concept art of village Dres tileset


SoM Dres Buildings.png
 Description:
Common Village Buildings

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SoM Dres Manors.png
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Manors for farm-nobles

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SoM Dres Manor 1 wo.png
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without inscriptions

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SoM Dres Manor 1 colored.png
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without inscriptions and coloured

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SoM Dres Manor 1.png
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Inscriptions

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Post Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:27 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Cool concept. I wonder, have you seen our Dres architecture designs?
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Post Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Super cool. I've always imagined some of the stauncher traditonalists/nomads in the Deshaan prefer to live in something more organic than the current architecture set. Something that can be integrated with the landscape. Maybe we can use some of this to supplement the current set. I had the idea that the Council hall was actually built into a Sky Render Nest but that might be over the top Razz
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Post Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:32 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyddyner
Member
01 Oct 2013



gro-Dhal wrote:
Cool concept. I wonder, have you seen our Dres architecture designs?

Of course I have. I called this builgings "High Dres Architecture" - it looks like the evolution from the Velothi to Indoril Style, may be, with some Hlaalu and Dunmeri Stronghold elements. I think, Dres House use this style in the cities and at the not-swampy places. But something massive like this can be drowned in the southern rice plantations - so small-holding gentry or plantators' (big lords') bailifs at the latifundias (and their servants or non-slaves dunmers) use traditional organic houses made by sky renders nests. Slaves use the garbage for their shacks and cabins.
Swiftoak Woodwarrior wrote:
Super cool. I've always imagined some of the stauncher traditonalists/nomads in the Deshaan prefer to live in something more organic than the current architecture set. Something that can be integrated with the landscape. Maybe we can use some of this to supplement the current set.

O, it will be great. Thank )))
Post Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
greendogo
TR Tester
29 Mar 2008

Location: Land of Oz

All I can say is these are pretty dang cool.

So you're suggesting a usage of the hive-dwellings and the "High Dres Architecture" in the same way that Hlaalu architecture is mixed with lower-class shacks in Gnaar Mok?

I wonder how the use of these old skyrender nests as homes would affect the "High Dres Architecture".

Obviously, the use of the glow-worm ink to decorate the exterior of the home with notable deeds of the household would carry over to the hive dwelling like is done with the "High Dres Architecture".

However, what notable attributes of the hive-dwellings could be brought over to the "High Dres Architecture" to show a cohesion between the two styles? Perhaps a mimicking of the hexagonal patterns of the interior of the hive dwellings could be explored on the interior walls? The exterior of the "High Dres Architecture" is pretty well set, but the interior is probably ripe for theme exploration.

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Post Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:07 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

greendogo wrote:
However, what notable attributes of the hive-dwellings could be brought over to the "High Dres Architecture" to show a cohesion between the two styles? Perhaps a mimicking of the hexagonal patterns of the interior of the hive dwellings could be explored on the interior walls? The exterior of the "High Dres Architecture" is pretty well set, but the interior is probably ripe for theme exploration.


I recall Sload saying he wanted hexagonal cantons

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Post Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:43 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyddyner
Member
01 Oct 2013



greendogo wrote:
All I can say is these are pretty dang cool.

O, thank you Smile
greendogo wrote:

So you're suggesting a usage of the hive-dwellings and the "High Dres Architecture" in the same way that Hlaalu architecture is mixed with lower-class shacks in Gnaar Mok?

Not this way. In my interpretation, southern Dres villages look more like TESV small towns - same architecture for nobles and other. But lord's/manager/s houses are bigger and richer, of course.
May be in some places of southern Morrowind young progressive heirs of ancient families will rebuilt their old hive-towers to new "High-Dres"-style manor. Or at the High-Dres ruins of 2nd Arnesian War poor lord built new Hive-tower.
greendogo wrote:

However, what notable attributes of the hive-dwellings could be brought over to the "High Dres Architecture" to show a cohesion between the two styles? Perhaps a mimicking of the hexagonal patterns of the interior of the hive dwellings could be explored on the interior walls? The exterior of the "High Dres Architecture" is pretty well set, but the interior is probably ripe for theme exploration.

It's very intresting idea. I'm not good in drawing interiors, but I can try as possible to make new concept.
Post Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

The question is: do we want to dedicate time and resources to giving House Dres two unique architecture styles? All the other Great Houses only have one set that is unique to them (I guess you could make an argument that House Indoril also has the Old Mounrnhold set, but I won't count it because it's not currently in use). I'm also still not sure if these hive-dwellings, as cool as they are, will mesh well with the main Dres set.
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Post Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Terrifying Daedric Foe
Developer
26 Aug 2010

Location: England

For what it's worth, I agree with Yeti.
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Post Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:59 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
greendogo
TR Tester
29 Mar 2008

Location: Land of Oz

I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here; I'm aware the likelihood of gaining meaningful support for such an idea is low, but I think the concepts were good enough to warrant thoughtful discussion.
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Post Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:35 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
st.Veloth, The Repenting
Member
28 Feb 2015

Location: toronto

pondering in thought; the answer is muddled in manuscript.
perhaps we should get MK over here to dream up some crazy stuff.
personally i think velothi-indoril style does not fit the dres very well, and is better suited for older indoril cities. but, as you can probably tell, i am the only one with that opinion. in this case i can relate to house telvanni. house dres and telvanni have been partners for as long as they've existed. it would make sense that a strong telvanni presence could be observed in some parts of the dres architecture. also, there has been discussion on the topic of hlaalu-dres alliances, yet, i find it hard to believe that the dres of all houses would even talk to hlaalu after they got all close with the empire.

one main thing to remember about dres is that they are almost as outlandish and isolated as the telvanni, and they uphold the ancient traditions of veloth. a dash of high velothi culture could be present, but that's hard to believe, as that was wiped out long ago.

these are just facts stated to help with the design process, hopefully no-one will see these as rules, or things they must do.
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Post Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:35 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



So I've been trying to figure out where the various things are and I'm having trouble. Where in mainland Morrowind are the Deshaan plains, and who owns what parts of them?

Does anyone have a map?
Post Thu May 21, 2015 2:59 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
klep
Lead Developer
23 Nov 2014

Location: Europe

Unfortunately not at home, so can't scrap you up a layered map with both political borders and region borders, but have a look at the Political map of Morrowind and Regions maps at the UESP.
Post Thu May 21, 2015 8:45 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



Oh, that is very helpful! (I had been trying to figure out the difference between shipal-shin and the deshaan plains.)
Post Thu May 21, 2015 1:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



(I posted this in the Shipal-shin thread, copying it here, too.)

So, I looked at the map earlier today with political boundaries. I notice Shipal-Shin is adjacent to the Deshaan plains.

If I understand correctly, the current idea for the Deshaan plains is that it is basically long and flat, salty soil, and people have mentioned holes, tunnels, and crevasses in it.

So far, we're imagining the Shipal-Shin region as primarily like Arizona, the grand canyon, etc. Notably, this implies the entire area has been carved away by water, which fits the current map having a river in the middle.

So what if the border between the plains and Shipal-Shin is one of the cliffs? The Deshaan plains would then be up on the plateau, and the Shipal-Shin region is the part of the plateau that has been worn away over the ages, exposing all the different soil types and allowing cool rock formations.

(Incidentally: if the plains used to be watery, then dried up, that would explain the salt. Then, if geologic action pushes them up and water erodes them down, that explains the crevasses and then the transition to Shipal-Shin.)

I attached a really rough sketch of the idea.



ShiDeshBorder.jpg
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Post Thu May 21, 2015 6:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



I've been poking back through this thread and I wish there were a more unified concept going on for the Deshaan plains.

So I made one. I introduced a few new ideas, but the main goal of this image is to express the plains in one spot, so I don't have to go through 8 pages of focus thread.

Comments and feedback are most welcome, especially relating to how accurate this is with respect to established concept.

http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/WIP-Deshaan-Plains-Concept-534749258
Post Sat May 23, 2015 3:17 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



10Kaziem wrote:
So what if the border between the plains and Shipal-Shin is one of the cliffs? The Deshaan plains would then be up on the plateau, and the Shipal-Shin region is the part of the plateau that has been worn away over the ages, exposing all the different soil types and allowing cool rock formations.

I totally love the idea about a cliff between Shipal-Shin and Deshaan.

But how can the Deshaan be the plateau and Shipal-Shin the lowland? If I remember correctly Shipal-Shin is planned to be more arid than Deshaan, and water usually flows downward.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have Shipal-Shin as kind of a rugged, craggy plateau leading into the lowland Deshaan?
Post Sat May 23, 2015 9:54 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



That makes sense. (I double checked, and that's what Why originally pictured.) If Deshaan is the lowland and Shipal-Shin the plateau, then this raises some other questions:

1) What sort of border is between the Deshaan and the swamps to the south? Why don't the swamps keep going?

2) Does our current createmap heightmap of the southern area reflect our discussed ideas for what the southern regions look like, topologically?

3) If the Deshaan plains are supposed to have water and crevices deep underneath them... where is it? If we expect the Deshaan to be arid, the water has to be not really accessible. I mean, water underground is either in a aquifer (underground pond) or an underground river, which goes places. Where does it go?

4) Plants go where/when water is. A lot of Shipal-shin is a big river and its tributaries! That means lots of water for plants.

EDIT: Watershed, that's the concept I wanted. The watershed of the Thirr is pretty big. What rainfall happens in Shipal-shin all drains directly into the Thirr. What falls in the plains also drains into the Thirr, from the east. Point being I imagine the Deshaan and Shipal-Shin do not exchange water with each other, instead both of them drain into the Thirr at different points.

Water does flow downhill, but the results are not always the most "logical."
Post Sat May 23, 2015 1:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Do keep in mind that arid regions can be low-laying. That's why canyons are often associated with arid climates.
Post Mon May 25, 2015 1:28 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



Yes-- and one thing I mentioned in my picture was that if the air is coming from the south, and it hits elevation, it dumps all the moisture as it rises and before it hits the plateau. I.e. if the Deshaan is a plateau, that explains 1) its aridity, 2) why there is a swamp to the south, 3) why the swamp stops, and 4) erosion from occasional rainfall can account for all the crevices, sinkholes, karst, and the entirety of the landscape of Shipal-shin, given that it is being modeled on Arizona/Utah, where the entire landscape is carved by water.

I like it, it's neat. I know Morrowind is not real, so we aren't strictly bound by realism, but I find that the more thoughtfully interconnected a world is, the more real it feels when you play it, especially if it speaks to the experience of the players.
Post Mon May 25, 2015 1:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



10Kaziem wrote:
1) What sort of border is between the Deshaan and the swamps to the south? Why don't the swamps keep going?

Is it swamps? From the region name I guess it's a jungle. In that case the salt is the border - jungle trees and plants don't grow in salty soil, only specialized plants do.

10Kaziem wrote:
3) If the Deshaan plains are supposed to have water and crevices deep underneath them... where is it? If we expect the Deshaan to be arid, the water has to be not really accessible. I mean, water underground is either in a aquifer (underground pond) or an underground river, which goes places. Where does it go?

Well, it goes to the Deshaan plains! That's how salt plains work. The water flows through surrounding areas like the jungle and the Shipal-Shin; where salts are dissolved in the water; then it flows into the sink Deshaan; by underground rivers into underground pools. The dry surface soaks water upwards which almost completely evaporates and is carried away by the wind (and the salt remains).

10Kaziem wrote:
If the Deshaan is a plateau, that explains 1) its aridity, 2) why there is a swamp to the south, 3) why the swamp stops, and 4) erosion from occasional rainfall can account for all the crevices, sinkholes, karst, and the entirety of the landscape of Shipal-shin, given that it is being modeled on Arizona/Utah, where the entire landscape is carved by water.

If the Deshaan is a salt bowl, that also explains 1) its aridity (on the surface), 2) why there is a jungle to the south, 3) why the jungle stops, and 4) erosion from frequent rainfall west of the Shipal-Shin can account for all the crevices, sinkholes, karst, and the entirety of the landscape, given that it is being modeled on Arizona/Utah, where the entire landscape is carved by water.

Plus, it also explains where the water for the saltrice and marshmerrow is coming from - underground. Without the need of some obscure hitorical event.

10Kaziem wrote:
Then, if geologic action pushes them up and water erodes them down, that explains the crevasses and then the transition to Shipal-Shin.


And just to make this totally clear: I DO think that there could be a cliff transition between Shipal-Shin and Deshaan - just the other way around.
Post Wed May 27, 2015 7:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



6plus: To be clear myself: I am totally cool with it being either way (and letting others talk about/decide). I've been slowly working through the backlog of forum posts about the Dres and Deshaan area, so I'm learning more about what has already been established. Once I've gotten through more of it I'll edit that image with updates that make it more accurate to what's already been done.

Also: yes, jungle. Don't know why I said swamp.
Post Wed May 27, 2015 7:51 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



I have some concept art that might be of interest; it is also in my concept art thread.

Salt deposits (on the surface or underground in tunnels or mines)
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Salt-Deposits-535830638

Some quick salt plants:
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Tamriel-Rebuilt-Concept-Art-Extremophile-Plants-533457655

A more developed concept, the salt strap plant, which needs a new name:
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Saltstrap-534142648
Post Thu May 28, 2015 1:35 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
klep
Lead Developer
23 Nov 2014

Location: Europe

I imagine the Argonian Jungle quite swampy, being near the Black Marsh and all.
Post Thu May 28, 2015 8:38 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Keep in mind that, as with virtually all things Dres, the name 'Argon Jungle' is a placeholder. We have absolutely no current plans for the region, other than that it should probably be very humid and dangerous. (There was some exterior work done years ago, but we won't really be paying that any heed). Calling it a swamp may be partially my fault, as I've advocated the region being a swamp since I checked that old map I always link and this line from the PGE:
A Pocket Guide to The Empire and its environs, First Edition wrote:
[...] the ruin wrought by the first eruption of Vvardenfell, which laid waste at least half of Morrowind, and led to a permanent shift of population south towards the Deshaan, the broad southern plain which gradually slopes down into the dismal swamps of Black Marsh.
(By the original plans for Morrowind our Orethan regions and possibly the Thirr River Valley region would all have been part of the Deshaan plain). I decided I liked the idea of it being a swamp more than a jungle, and got an idea for the region to boot which I describe near the end of this thread and -- with some changes here and there -- still advocate.
Post Thu May 28, 2015 11:36 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



I spent some time yesterday typing up a google doc of everything I have read about the Deshaan plains here on the forums. I posted the text below, but here's a link so it can be edited online as well:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11KK8LsoJL0yjk3_JiJhKlHef4C5Gm-DDfnbX-7zFDZU/edit?usp=sharing

Deshaan Plains Concepts

This is a compilation of the current ideas from the forums. It is not set in stone and is open to new ideas. Ideas marked with a (?) are particularly open to being modified or corrected.

On Geography:

The Deshaan plains are an arid region of southeast mainland Morrowind. The region is a roughly bowl-shaped depression, that slopes down gradually to meet the swampy jungles to the south.

To the north and northeast are the various Orethan regions, pleasant hilly areas. The border here is a gradual change in elevation and landscape (?)

To the northwest is the Thirr river. This border is somewhat mountainous.

To the west is Shipal-shin, a very arid region with reddish soil that is the birthplace of the Thirr River. The border here is the edge of a plateau; Shipal-shin is much higher in elevation and drops abruptly down to the Deshaan plains.

To the south are the various swamps and jungles of the Black Marsh. The Deshaan plains slowly drop down and become more boggy until they are salt marshes, which then transform into a dense and forbidding jungle as one moves south.

To the east are the various Dres mudflats, and then the sea. The border here slopes down to the mud. (?)

The Deshaan plains themselves are known for several key features:

The plains are quite arid and do not see rainfall very often. However, there is ample water underground and it occasionally appears on the surface as brine pools.

The plains are extremely salty. All of the plant and animal life is well-adapted and unique to the region.

Despite the salt and aridity, the plains are actually very fertile. The fertility depends heavily on the availability of water.

The ground is riddled with sinkholes, crevasses, and fissures. Down in these holes there is an abundance of strange caves, strange salts, and strange plants.

On Salt:
The Deshaan plains are known mainly for their salt. On the surface, salt appears in brine pools. Brine pools and the salt patches from dried-up brine pools dot the landscape and give it its characteristic appearance.

Salt underground can appear in a variety of wondrous shapes. Much, but not all of it, is table salt, a valued commodity in its own right. However, some of the salt is strange, colorful, or otherwise unusual. Some might be corrosive or poisonous, have interesting alchemical effects, or be magical.

Salt is easily found in small quantities on the surface, but it is contaminated with dirt and not good for eating. Salt is mined easily by evaporating brine (yielding both salt and fresh water). Most households do this for their own salt and water. Excess might be sold to a local salt merchant. Underground deposits are also mined by slaves, who use a variety of methods. Slaves also mine the more dangerous and exotic deposits. Telvanni might trade for these salts.

Argonians are favored for mining underground, since they have no trouble with underground rivers or dampness and are largely immune to the strange poisons and sicknesses that arise from exotic salts.

Salt mining methods include: pumping water in to make brine, mining with a pickaxe, growing crystals from brine like rock candy. Perhaps magical means (Telvanni, again?)

On Water:
The combination of salt and water is the basis of fertility in the Deshaan plains. Water in the Deshaan plains comes from the occasional rains and underground rivers and aquifers.

Water running underground is one of the main origins of the extensive caves, sinkholes, crevasses and other underground spaces. (The other is Dres salt mining.) These have been worn out of the relatively soft soil and rock by the wear of water. Common features include many stalactites, stalagmites, and weird salt drip formations. Caves or sinkholes open to the air are often full of plants. Despite the hot surface, it is often relatively cool and damp in the caves. Plant roots are commonly seen poking through the roof. There are probably strange animals and insects that live in the caves, possibly including skyrenders (?)

Water being essential to life, the Dres have devoted a considerable chunk of their engineering skills to moving it around. Their waterworks are as impressive as they are essential. Unlike the dwemer, Dres do not make use of steam power. Instead, the Dres use clever devices and slave labor.

On Plants:
Oddly, the fertility of the Deshaan plains is because of, not despite, the salts. The local plants are highly adapted to the climate and refuse to grow without the salt. Due to the salt, the soil is rich in vital minerals. Wherever water appears, the plains bloom. This naturally occurs near the various underground water sources or the intermittent brine pools, but Dres irrigation has allowed much of the Deshaan plains to flourish.

The Dres achieve much of their agriculture using a combination of hardy native plants, irrigation, and salt-tolerant imported plants. Saltrice and marshmerrow are common among the imported plants (?). Towards the dry but less salt edges of the plains, other plants such as cacti (from Tribunal) appear. (?) (Kreshweed?)

Native plants often feature water collection and storage systems and are used as sources of water themselves. Some grow exclusively in the crevasses, and others have extensive root systems. These extensive root systems might serve to hold the dirt in place (see Dust Bowl notes below). Native plants only occasionally grow outside the Deshaan plains, as they are ill-adapted to the (relatively) cold, wet environments. The Shipal-shin region is one exception, though even there the salt plants are rare. The occasional rich dunmer outside the plains might grow a salt garden.

On Animals:
?????

On Dres Society (and how they relate to the land):
?????

Miscellaneous Thoughts:

Dust Bowl Notes
We have a very dry ecosystem here, and could easily get a dust-bowl like effect. Potential implications:

Perhaps this could be a normal weather occurrence, retexturing and using the “blight storm” effect. No big deal, interesting weather. Perhaps salt storms, like sand storms.

Perhaps this could be a quest-worthy problem. Bad agriculture (too much irrigation, disturbing the native plants) led to the formation of the dust bowl in 1920s America. It destroyed most of the farmland in the midwest, and the land still has not recovered. The Deshaan plains are the breadbasket of Morrowind; losing their agricultural productivity would be a Very Bad Thing. This could be a main quest related thing. Some potential wrinkles include: maybe the sload who taught the Dres to farm set this up intentionally, for some reason. Perhaps a/the Telvanni, wanting the precious salts, are trying to drive land prices down so they can lay claim to a portion of the plains and the mining operations there. This could be related to the “bad deals” discussion in the Dres thread.

Native People Notes
There have been a few suggestions of native “ashlanders” living on the Deshaan plains. This could be cool. One idea, relating to the “dust bowl” above, is that if the plains are suffering ecological collapse, their way of life would be threatened.
Post Sun May 31, 2015 2:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



Had a bit today to work on the southern Deshaan plains. Here's an atmospheric piece for how the land could gradually transition from salt flats to mucky salt marsh and then finally to jungle.

http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Southern-Deshaan-Plains-543820460
Post Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:33 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



Another concept art bit, this time looking west to the border with Shipal-Shin.

http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Deshaan-Plains-West-544125907
Post Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:32 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
st.Veloth, The Repenting
Member
28 Feb 2015

Location: toronto

my opinions on this are simple. to perform proper irrigation and agriculture, the farms must dig into the soil, and use an underground reservoir. these reservoirs take the form of wells within deep caves, and if possible could be in some form of solid state. thus, the argonian slaves must climb down, carve of the ice/water stone and return, to then crush it up, and spread it like fertilizer into the ground. the ground is arid to the point of desert, and due to traces of iron, and sulfur, it is red like the dunes on mars.
as shown in the origins of cyrus comic, the border between black marches' swamp and the deshaan plain is very clear, as the salty arid wastes of the plain cannot support the swamp from black march.

hopefully we could get some sort of dune-feely thing going with this, as i've always thought that morrowind and dune were strikingly similar.

as for house dres relations with the land, their architecture (now more Veloth style craziness) is based around the rock spires (image ref: http://travelreportmx.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/spider-rock.jpg) pay no attention to the surroundings of the photo, just the rock spire; imagine, velothi styled architecture, jutting out the side of that thing, but instead, a more red color attributed, and having a collection of spires connected by zip-line carts. this would also work with skyrender nests, as they are horizontally based as well. i'll concept this as soon as i can, my head is teeming with ideas, this could bring a whole new aspect to morrowind, and it's atmosphere!

well, i just came back from a tour with my choir of the Baltic states, and Russia, and this was all i was thinking about!

let me know what you think.

_________________
almsivi bless, to create one must first destroy, the nature of all, is in equilibrium
- sotha sil
Post Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:34 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



Okay, responses:

Re ice irrigation: I think you're right that the main (if not only) source of water will be underground water, and also that there will be impressive engineering to get and move it. But, I don't think ice is the right way to go about it, for a couple of reasons. One, it's dang hot in that region. Two, even if there were ice deposits, ice melts, and by the time it reaches the surface it will be water anyway. Three, even if you get it to the surface as a solid, liquid water is easier to distribute to plants than solid, especially since solid water has to be crushed (which is not easy!). Four, most plants are damaged by ice, so if you put ice on them you kill them. Tropical or desert plants even die if the temperature gets down to 40 or 50 degrees Fahrenheit, let alone the 32 degrees of pure ice.

And on top of that, the water in the Deshaan plains is all salty, meaning that the freezing point will have been seriously dropped, making it extra hard to keep the water solid. (Remember, we throw salt on the streets to melt ice in the winter.)



Re: black marsh/ deshaan border: I found and read that comic (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Books:The_Elder_Scrolls_Adventures:_Redguard:_The_Origin_of_Cyrus!) and I don't see what you are seeing there; what I see is they showed a picture of Black Marsh, a picture of some swampy area with no name, and then a slave pit or arena of some kind that was in Dres territory, I assume in Tear somewhere.

So I don't see that there can't be an intermediate zone where the land becomes wetter, until it finally drops below the water table and turns into some type of marsh or jungle. The intermediate zone could be relatively thin (1 cell) or relatively thick (3 or 4 cells), as needed.



Re Dune: I think you're right in that dune has some parallels of the fremen with the ashlanders. I don't think the soil in the Deshaan plains should be reddish, though; I think we should leave the mars-type grand-canyon Arizona red rocks to Shipal Shin, where they would be awesome. Salt flats are typically a very light yellow, and while sand dunes come in all colors, I generally imagine them as a light yellow as well. I think others, earlier in this thread, have put forward the idea that the principal ground colors in the Deshaan plains would be light yellows and greys.

Bonneville salt flats, for reference: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Bonneville_Salt_Flats.jpg
Sand dunes, for reference: http://idealistcafe.com/viewphoto.php?photoid=232

What I imagine (and have drawn) is something like those two, combined with patches of this: http://fineartamerica.com/featured/cape-cod-salt-marsh-amy-skidmore.html

Note that I drew slightly reddish soil for the view looking at Shipal Shin, because some of the eroded red rock from there will fall or blow into the plains, which are of lower elevation.



Re architecture: I personally favor having a relatively flat (not totally flat) plains, with mountains and serious elevation changes only on the edges. I like the idea of the landlocked cantons, and the Dres cities being visible from afar, standing above the pits and canyons, being visible reminders of the strength and age of house Dres. Not sure on rock spires, but I'd like to hear other opinions.
Post Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:19 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
st.Veloth, The Repenting
Member
28 Feb 2015

Location: toronto

i've got some concepts i could throw down in a bit, i've been trying to tie down the ideas, but for the moment, one thing stands out, RED it should be red. like on mars, to get that crazy feel.
http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2015/4-opportunityo.jpg

_________________
almsivi bless, to create one must first destroy, the nature of all, is in equilibrium
- sotha sil
Post Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:18 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
horus
Developer
06 Aug 2014

Location: Murica

Hmm, I'm not too sure about red being the primary color of the region. I imagine it as being closer to Kaziem's concept art color-wise. And as he has pointed out, we already have a very strong red representation in the Shipal Shan region. Granted, that area is supposed to be based upon the Grand Canyon, and Mars and the Grand Canyon, though they share some features, don't look very similar. The primary difference between the two regions, then, would be elevation, and less color variation in Deshaan. Flat plains vs. canyon-y rocks and structures.

Honestly, vast salt flats can be just as crazy-looking and alien as Mars. ...Ok, obviously it can't look as alien. Even still. For some Imperial sapp, it'd be terrifyingly barren and hostile.

But hey, these are just my thoughts!
Post Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
ihavefivehat
Member
20 Oct 2014



St. Veloth, I like your ideas of taking inspiration from the landscape of Mars. I think that the landscape of Shipal-Shin would be more intriguing if it used a Mars-like color palette rather than the straight-ahead Grand Canyon style are which is emerging from concepts right now.

But I have to say, that for Deshaan, I am very happy with the idea of a salt-flat inspired area. Salt flats are some of the most beautiful and alien looking places on the earth.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SvSvwhIlJ1Q/U7p1C__lXQI/AAAAAAAEFsQ/Jcz1FFCucUU/s0/Salar%252520de%252520Uyuni%252520Salt%252520Pan%25252C%252520Altiplano%25252C%252520Potosi%252520District%25252C%252520Bolivia.jpg

Imagine that but with more alien looking vegetation on the rocks. That's the sort of thing that I would love to see in the Deshaan. A huge expanse of reflective white covered in rivers of shallow water. It would be interspersed with rocky islands covered in alien vegetation. We could include interesting rock formations like this:

http://www.uncambiodeaires.com/fotos/arbol-de-piedra-tour-salar-de-uyuni.jpg

In terms of exploration and gameplay, I think it would be very unique and interesting.

Imagine this, but more densely strewn with islands:

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/07/25/1226685/179321-bd85619e-ef7f-11e2-a799-ec5c9dace08a.jpg

And in between, instead of empty whiteness, we could have Dres saltworks and irrigation, plus plantations and slave pits dug into the salt.

Here are some more interesting images of the salt flats in Bolivia:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRxqFQoTCMeQ2_Wz9MYCFQIdPgod3xwFOw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fteachingwanderlust.com%2F2014%2F09%2F01%2Fhelp-me-3-weeks-in-peru-and-bolivia-itinerary%2F&ei=DYWyVYfWFIK6-AHfuZTYAw&bvm=bv.98476267,d.cWw&psig=AFQjCNE8P6vpFLqVfgXd0tIF-BdWWxzaDg&ust=1437849166505719

http://www.boliviabella.com/images/bolivia-salt-flats-21519396.jpg

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1596381/thumbs/o-10193762-900.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5054/5471649164_f9c7d81076_b_d.jpg


or... we could go a slightly less serene route and use this as inspiration:

http://semientrekethiopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/dabakil.jpg
Post Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:32 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
st.Veloth, The Repenting
Member
28 Feb 2015

Location: toronto

i like your idea for salt flat formations, perhaps having some large white spore clusters growing off the salt, though, it would be difficult to find an architectural style to fit in...
_________________
almsivi bless, to create one must first destroy, the nature of all, is in equilibrium
- sotha sil
Post Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:50 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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