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Scamp
Reviewer
21 Nov 2009

Location: The Velothi Mountains

Very nice Nemon, I especially like the aqueduct.
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Post Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:50 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I agree that those 6x6 monstrosities would be nice to avoid as much as possible. While things like the Basilica of Almalexia's Grace need large exterior shells like that, I think a lot of the charm of Almalexia should come from the smaller buildings (read: anything but those huge towers).
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Post Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I do love the acropolis Mournhold. The overall design you made there is pretty amazing too.

However, if you ask me, there's way, way too many giant towers. They should really be used sparingly. I have absolutely no idea how we'd fill them all. The overall idea is amazing though - I'd love to see more actual streets of smaller buildings and narrow canals besides the huge towers. I like the giant towers around the main ramps, but it'd be great to have smaller streets between them, on partially elevated plateaus maybe.
Post Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:57 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

really like the design - crisscrossing bridges and multiple levels are always very pleasant to create an interesting game environment (as long as they don't proliferate to the point of confusion)

It might be nice to have some areas of the city on the same height level as Mournhold (or less low down), kind of hilly 'suburbs' (in an inaccurate sense of the word) where the rich hang out, which then descends into canal land and metropolis. Might need some of the surrounding environs to be elevated too so that the city doesn't become just 'a mountain'...

Why's thoughts are nice; all this stuff is obviously stuff that can be enhanced/added by the final rather than rough sketch draft.

I think an attempt to create a feeling of atmospheric 'districts' (think Assassin's Creed) without resorting to 'shacks/rubbish everywhere equals poor', etc., would be amazing.

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Post Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:37 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

Like this concept a lot. The grand ramps easily separate the city into distinct quarters that we can play around with and give character to. The large towers could be removed. Admittedly, they look impressive, and I like the way the city looks with them, but I agree, that is way more interior space than we need.
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Post Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:29 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Hell yes! Elevating Mournhold is a very cool idea. I would also be careful with those towers, but interiorwise they can always be plain fortification towers - with one square thick outer walls and then just spiral staircase going up and up and up until the archers outpost at the top. No sophisticated interior is required, I believe.

But I would also love to see some less grandious parts. Poor does not mean shacks, I believe using this set should be avoided. Poor might mean with more narrow streets and canals and greater amount of smaller buildings.

Now few thoughts on the life in Almalexia:

Please also try not to think of Almalexia in terms of rich/poor districts too much. Gentrification is largely a phenomenon of modern cities, where public transport enables large migration of working class as well as of goods.

In older towns there were certain more classy areas like area around palace, inhabited by rulers courtsmen and aristocrates, or areas around cathedral with monasteries, universities, libraries... However there were no such things as slums or "villa neighbourhoods" (ghettos perhaps - such as Jewish town).

A rich merchant might have had his residence in the downtown, but his servants had to live nearby. There also had to be a grocery or fish shop in vicinity (not just fashion boutiques as nowadays). The merchants cook had to buy his supplies somewhere. The cook could not just sit into a car and drive into a nearest supermarket as today. These shops were also ran by not so rich people.

And there was also, probably hidden from the merchants sight (in some alley or cellar or inner court) a pub where all these servants could meet and enjoy theirs beer. The merchant could enjoy his glass of wine in the pub at the main street.

Rich and poor had to coexist in the same area most of the time, but the poor houses were hidden from the first sight of the visitor.

But that is a picture from medieval European town, not from Morrowind...

The structure of the city has to reflect structure of the society. Dividing it automatically to rich/poor districts does not have to make sense and might give a false picture of the Indoril society (and it is also quite dull).

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Post Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:31 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Worsas
Developer
10 Sep 2005



message

Last edited by Worsas on Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:25 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

As others have stated: we should avoid using too many towers. A good number of them do create a nice skyline however.

We could use the towers in a manner similar to the housing in Vivec's St. Olms and Delyn cantons. Poorer people would live in places further down, whereas the richer people could have penthouses around the top.

Placing smaller, less tall buildings around the towers, possibly on their own height level, allows for more diverse shapes. Relatively narrow paths and alleyways would be broken up by small squares.


To pull an idea from Star Wars: the city/planet of Coruscant has rich levels around the top, and poorest parts are down below (where there is also the sewerage). Something similar could be done with a small shanty at some point near the base of Mournhold.


Another idea is to have sewerage exits in the Mournhold Mount, with waterfalls falling off. This could also be combined with OM Aquaducts exiting the Mount.
Post Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:29 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Note that placing small houses up high requires awkward usage of fundaments. Towers, being tall from the start thus reaching further down (preferably all the way into the ground) looks better. Another option is to raise the ground itself but that will lay claim to a large portion of the landscape available for canals and such.

Also, and this needs to be mentioned. I decreased the size of our fake Mournhold as well, since it's mostly a boring unavailable thing. No one will notice the 10-15% smaller structure anyways. If they do, they need to get out into the sunshine. Or rain.

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Post Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I do want to reempathise that I love the tall-towers-skyline-around-akropolis-mournhold idea. But we do have slimmer towers, right?
Post Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:26 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Why wrote:
But we do have slimmer towers, right?

Not really.

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:45 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Some of the towers are slimmer than the 6x6 ones - but it would be no simple replacement due to the respective base placements - at least for my concept. I don't see why it should be so difficult to create interiors for these towers, and they only make up a small portion of what eventually will be the interiors in Almalexia.
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:00 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Those towers are just so big, and so many floors. Modders pretty much made them with 75% or more filler and it showed (I'm as guilty as the next). You won't get great ints from them. I can't think of one Almalexia mega-tower (guard tower, manor, or anything else) I've ever seen that I could describe as better than average, and most fall far below that mark.

The trouble with them is the amount of floors, more than anything else. The height is so restrictive on what you can do. Often you'll fit in everything you can in the bottom 3 or 4 storeys, and end up putting filler at the top. You'll find quite a few interior gardens and musical instruments on the top floor of those towers. Filling out a purposeful horizontal building is just that much easier than a vertical one.

It sounds harsh but I'm being honest. What I said I find as applicable to my own work. Few people want to make ints for those huge towers, and even fewer finish them. I ended up doing every one of those huge claims I could back in the day because nobody else was mad enough to go near one.

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:09 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

Old Almalexia didn't make use of two-high stories and atriums, a lesson we learnt in Narsis and more recent Indoril interiors.
Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:18 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Huge towers should naturally include atrium-like things like this stuff I googled just now.

http://www.old-picture.com/europe/pictures/entrance-atrium.jpg

Two floors, one room, much more interesting than the standard floor by floor thing I suspect people think when they see the towers.

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:24 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Andres Indoril
Senior Developer
13 Jan 2006

Location: Lost.... Somewhere?

Plus, if the towers were to be apartment buildings, we could theoretically give away hallway claims and appartment claims per floor to less torture the modders.
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:19 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Jule
Reviewer
01 May 2007

Location: Wilderness

Atriums would be awesome, but I think that would mean a few new models would have to be made.
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Nomadic1 wrote:
Those towers are just so big, and so many floors. Modders pretty much made them with 75% or more filler and it showed (I'm as guilty as the next). You won't get great ints from them. I can't think of one Almalexia mega-tower (guard tower, manor, or anything else) I've ever seen that I could describe as better than average, and most fall far below that mark.

The trouble with them is the amount of floors, more than anything else. The height is so restrictive on what you can do. Often you'll fit in everything you can in the bottom 3 or 4 storeys, and end up putting filler at the top. You'll find quite a few interior gardens and musical instruments on the top floor of those towers. Filling out a purposeful horizontal building is just that much easier than a vertical one.

It sounds harsh but I'm being honest. What I said I find as applicable to my own work. Few people want to make ints for those huge towers, and even fewer finish them. I ended up doing every one of those huge claims I could back in the day because nobody else was mad enough to go near one.


Those big buildings are just boring to walk around, which is the main problem. I think i'd get pretty sick of having to visit a questgiver who lived in the penthouse.
Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:42 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

gro-Dhal wrote:

Those big buildings are just boring to walk around, which is the main problem. I think i'd get pretty sick of having to visit a questgiver who lived in the penthouse.


That depends on the making of the interiors and quests. We're not forced to put Mrs Important at the very top.

Jule wrote:
Atriums would be awesome, but I think that would mean a few new models would have to be made.


That depends on the modder. We could even consider retextures of certain seam covering statics.

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

We don't need any truly new models, atriums have been done in Indoril style before, by us. Possibly we should retexture a Redoran fencing to match, but other than that, we are able to make good atriums.
Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:33 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Katze
Developer Emeritus
26 Feb 2009

Location: Behind you!

What's stopping us having elevators for the towers for quick access to the needed floor? The city was created by the gods, the dunmer certainly have the technology, and it would be a simple matter of each button on the elevator panel being a teleport door to the relevant residence.
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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:03 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nomadic1
Developer Emeritus
15 May 2004

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Atriums are cool but they are difficult to fit in 6 x 6 in a way that isn't pointless. You need the atrium to be at least 4 x 4 to have good visual impact in game, which leaves an awkward space to fill around it. They've always been done in buildings with larger footprints, have been small things tucked away in a corner somewhere where their coolness and impact is lost, or have been those crane things in the storage towers.

Nemon wrote:
gro-Dhal wrote:

Those big buildings are just boring to walk around, which is the main problem. I think i'd get pretty sick of having to visit a questgiver who lived in the penthouse.


That depends on the making of the interiors and quests. We're not forced to put Mrs Important at the very top.

If nothing important is going to be at the top, why bother doing something up there at all?

Cathartis wrote:
What's stopping us having elevators for the towers for quick access to the needed floor? The city was created by the gods, the dunmer certainly have the technology, and it would be a simple matter of each button on the elevator panel being a teleport door to the relevant residence.

Cool idea.

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Andres Indoril
Senior Developer
13 Jan 2006

Location: Lost.... Somewhere?

A 4x3 atrium still has great effect. The living quarters would be above such area, with staircases (or Almalexia's Great Elevators) leading up on the side, near the entrance.
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Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:30 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lady Nerevar
Developer Emeritus
08 Jun 2004

Location: New Orleans, LA

If we're having tall buildings, maybe we can have some sort of skyway type things? More buildings suspended from bigger buildings, forming a tunnel below and more space above. It would add a 3rd dimension of space to the city. In fancy districts, it could be a sort of park or garden, with flowers hanging down the sides and wealthy patrons enjoying the view. In lower class areas, it could be tenements tenuously attached to the sides of buildings, with seedy alleyways and crowds below.

I'm digging Nemon's screenshots, though I'd squish it together more, and add smaller, lower buildings surrounding the tall central downtown.

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Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:15 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

Streets atop streets.
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Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:29 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

In a great number of older cities, certain levels of a building could "hang" without something under them. This could be done in Alma too, with cool effects. Possibly.
Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:26 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Please do not turn Almalexia into a Manhattan again! The canals should provide enough diversity so that the city was not one dimensional. While in reasonable numbers the towers look imposant, making them the trademark element of this city and spamming them around would make them look meh.
Not to speak how painful would be to climb up to the ramps all the time. Vivec with its monumental cantons and skywalks was crappy enough (Oh, how I hated having to walk around the canotns having to find and climb all that stupid monotone, empty ramps! I felt more like pacman than like a visitor to the Dunmer city of the living god).

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Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:30 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lady Nerevar
Developer Emeritus
08 Jun 2004

Location: New Orleans, LA

Convenient levitation potion salesmen? Come to think of it, we could use those in Telvannis, too.
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Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:37 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

Theo wrote:
Please do not turn Almalexia into a Manhattan again! The canals should provide enough diversity so that the city was not one dimensional. While in reasonable numbers the towers look imposant, making them the trademark element of this city and spamming them around would make them look meh.
Not to speak how painful would be to climb up to the ramps all the time. Vivec with its monumental cantons and skywalks was crappy enough (Oh, how I hated having to walk around the canotns having to find and climb all that stupid monotone, empty ramps! I felt more like pacman than like a visitor to the Dunmer city of the living god).


Vivec sucked because you walked forever with nothing to do. The exterior was just blank walls and widely spaced doors. If we have more to do and more variation along the walkways we can make the walk entertaining. We need to avoid the grand empty spaces that both the old Almalexia and Vivec had. Vivec felt completely unlived in, parts of Almalexia were the same.

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Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:00 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I agree with Theo about the Manhattan comment; my main concern is simply that Almalexia will be supersaturated with the towers. I'd like to see some concepts/art of Almalexia sectors that don't use them, just so we know what the other extreme might look like.
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Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:06 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I've got a story in the pipeline, expect it this weekend somewhere. Or today in case I get bored with studying already. But that shouldn't happen.
Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:49 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

I think the towers are ok if done properly. I don't think we should get rid of them entirely.
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Post Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:14 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

The future of Almalexia looks grim, the Ministry of Truth is just about to make shit get real on Vivec - if poor 'ol Almalexia isn't incinerated in the massive blast and/or volcano eruption it gets overrun by slimy Argonians. Eugh!
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alex25
Developer
21 Jan 2010

Location: Here and There

The future of Almalexia looks bleak indeed but with all those canals the Aragonians should feel right at home...

Now for the more or less serious bit: one thing I've found weird in the first version of Almalexia is that there was no real grouping of buildings. While I agree that apartments or houses should be spread out more chaotically to mirror real cities some structures should stay together. In the old Almalexia the Alma Rula's palace was standing near the Slitstrider port with no clear reason as to why it was standing there at such a great distance from the fortress. So just my two cents: The Ordinator Fortress, the Alma Rula's palace and a monastery dedicated to either Saint Nerevar, Olms or Lothis (since they have a military theme) should reside on a elevated ground (like a hill) surrounded by walls, with a parade ground between them so there is actually a fortress feeling. The bazaar should stand near the striderport since goods come mostly from there and near the bazaar should be the place for the guilds, bank and some sort of bazaar authority. The northern side should hold the upper class, the indoril council and the imperial embassy.

Near the Mournhold gate should be the Great council building along with 4 manors, all of this possibly sitouated on an island (the great council would be between the Houses, Temple and the Imperials). The whole city would have and egg shape with more buildings in the bazaar/ temple/ northern side an fewer buildings in the southern side and the side opposite to the bazaar.


So a bit of fanfic to showcase the concept:

From the diary of Rosphat Oresmis

"... it was already late in the afternoon when our group reached the gates of Almalexia. We had been escorted by a group of warriors in ornate armor who were as I later learned Ordinators of the Watch. However even in the dim light the capital of Morrowind left us in awe as we saw the proud walls. We entered through the southern gate, gate that led to a great plaza. There were guards that checked any large group in the city but on of the Ordinators grunted something in the native's harsh tongue and they bowed and let us pass. In front of us stood the gates to Mournhold, the capitol of Almalexia that had been built on a rocky hill that overlooked the area, an excellent defensive position since the said hill was surrounded by a large lake that could be crossed only on a rather narrow bridge. It soon became apparent that we would be staying in the city as we were taken to some sort of small port where gondolas carried us to the opposite side of the lake and then we were taken through rows of rich manors and well paved streets until we reached an imposing building that was surrounded by a small garden: the embassy. The ambassador, one Tullius Varrinus was quick to greet us after finding out our purpose and after a feast just as rich as those in the Imperial City we were shown to our quarters.

In the morning we were told that the King couldn't receive us until tomorrow and the Almalexia herself would see us the day after that so we had free reign to explore the city. The city itself was rather chaotic with long buildings and tall towers, our only guide being the walls of Mournhold that towered above everything and while not as imposing as the white-gold tower they were still an impressive sight. Our companion and guide a dunmer named Enarvy Velothren took us first to see the only building that stood just as high as the Mournhold walls: the fortress of the ordinators. To reach that place we went through a series of guarded islands where the council members of House Indoril lived in splendid palaces and crossed a park that held a monastery of some sort of a local deity or saint as we reached the Ordinator complex. The complex was on one of the hills bordering the city and was enclosed with imposing walls. At the opposite side from the gate stood the Fortress of the Ordinators a huge building that seemed to dwarf the sun, the only thing that I can compare it with being the cantons of Vivec although in my humble memory they didn't seem quite as imposing. In front of the building was a courtyard made for parades and training with barracks on either side and two large buildings on both ends: a temple dedicated to fallen heroes and the residence of the Alma Rula, the commander of all the Ordinators. There we were greeted by one Midave Belas who introduced himself as an Ordinator from the order of doctrine and.....

After we left the fortress complex we went down to the grand bazaar passing across two bridges and a number of cramped streets. The bazaar appeared chaotic but it had its distinct order: surrounded by two canals and positioned roughly in the middle of the lake it held the slitstrider ports at the part opposite to the walls of Mournhold while the Commerce Chamber stood at the opposite side, near it being the almost equally impressive buildings of the Mage and Fighter guild. Near the strider port stood some sort of customs authority and the bank of Almalexia while the shops ranged from luxurious (those in the proximity of the guilds) to poor ones that stood on side streets. There I had a close encounter with the darker side of Almalexia for out of nowhere a mer with a maddened expression on his face stabbed and unsuspecting Aragonian and then charge towards our group but our ordinator guards were quick to stop him, one of them cutting his head with a single, precise blow, a sight that earned the approval of our military expert, Malpen Celata.....

Our guide then took us to the Temple of The Mother, temple that stood surprisingly close to the southern gates, across a great square. The sheer vastness of the temple held us in complete awe a truly humbling experience even for practiced diplomats. As we left the building our guide explained that the three or four story buildings around the plaza were apartments owned by the temple that were rented to the poor though there also was a hospital for those who needed healing and some more luxurious quarters for passing priests. As we returned we made a complete circle viewing the Grand Council building that stood in it's own courtyard along with four manors for the representatives Great Houses (both House Indoril and the temple had it's quarters within the city and the imperial embassy had been built at a later date outside of the complex) and viewed the Indoril council house that was situated on a high hill so that "the decisions could be announced to the crowd bellow from a safe height" had said our guide with a sly grin (we later learned that our guide was part of House Hlaalu and didn't care much for the Indoril council).


So hopefully this can provide an idea or two on the basic city layout.
Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:11 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Does anyone have any pictures? We've had plenty of words, but no visual concepts except for Nemon's, pretty much.
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Post Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

And even more interesting; practical ideas using the CS.
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Post Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:19 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrion
Reviewer
31 May 2006

Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)

I liked what Nemon was doing. Are we ready for somebody to pick this up then? Nemon could you post a file of your concept?
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Post Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:15 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Tyrion wrote:
Are we ready for somebody to pick this up then?


No. Hence me asking for more concepts. One concept != enough.

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Post Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:47 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Sorry for bursting in, but I am just wondering - does "towers" mean "towers that are low enough that one wouldn't expect to see them from the Mournhold fake exteriors from vanilla Tribunal"? Because if not, then somebody will have to add these towers to the vanilla cells as well (or at least some LOD that resembles these towers)...

Personally I don't like cities going particularly high in RPGs, but then again I don't like cities at all, so I am probably not a criterion.

Also, how are the elevators going to be explained? By Dwemer-like steamtech or by levitation-like magicks? Somehow I don't feel levitation would be appropriate in Mournhold (think of the ban on levitation and of the town being a Temple stronghold); I have no idea how much of this pertains to Almalexia, though.

Disclaimer: I am not a mor^Hdder.
Post Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:35 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

I made another very crude concept of Almalexia to consider. I did not bother to detail, height-match or clean this file. It is solely to demonstrate some features that could be included.
go to cell TR_AlmaCon (should be just south of Vivec).

Perhaps a next stage would be to draw a concept map. What are the main districts and where they are (grand bazaar, administrative district etc.), where are gates to the city, main canals, how does it connect to Mournhold etc...



AlmaCon.esp
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 Filename:  AlmaCon.esp
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Post Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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